Trade ideas
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I honestly dont see why people are trying to move barnes out for one trick ponies like Harris and Duncan Robinson when we already have a better version of those players on the team in huerter. Barnes is a high level shooter (40%+ from 3) and can get his own shot, handle the ball, play defense and rebound as well as pass. I get he is a bit expensive, but unless you are returninga high level FRP or moving him as part of a package for a legit all star level talent (like a Jalen Brown), you will massively downgrade the team.
I think this may be a bit shortsighted, though. If we were tanking, sure. It makes sense. But we're angling for the playoffs, and Barnes is presumably an important piece to that puzzle. Actually *getting* to the playoffs (particularly with a new coaching staff on board, Sabonis, Keegan, etc.) should go a long way towards shifting the narrative about Sacramento, and give us the ability to actually land a *good* free agent to replace Barnes if he's tired of being here. But if you toss Barnes, and you miss the playoffs because you did, then...still on the treadmill.
So, yeah, I say we shouldn't worry about "losing an asset for nothing" in this situation. Use our assets to the fullest to get off the treadmill. That's where we're at now (or where we should be at, at any rate).
So, yeah, I say we shouldn't worry about "losing an asset for nothing" in this situation. Use our assets to the fullest to get off the treadmill. That's where we're at now (or where we should be at, at any rate).
I think if the scuttlebutt was that Barnes would be happy to stay in Sacramento then it's fine to take this approach. But rumors have swirled that he wants to sign elsewhere after this season. Right now he's arguably the 3rd best player on the team. Making the play in tournament next year but failing to do so the season after because he walks is also treadmilling IMO.
I don't want to see Barnes traded for pennies on the dollar and I think we've started to buck the Kings fan tradition of overvaluing Kings players with HB because he actually seems undervalued by fans right now. He is a useful player to a lot of teams looking to make the playoffs, including the Kings.
Which is why I think unless the team is playing poorly heading into the trade deadline the most likely scenario is that he stays on the roster and walks for nothing next offseason. Time will tell if that's good asset management.
I don't want to see Barnes traded for pennies on the dollar and I think we've started to buck the Kings fan tradition of overvaluing Kings players with HB because he actually seems undervalued by fans right now. He is a useful player to a lot of teams looking to make the playoffs, including the Kings.
Which is why I think unless the team is playing poorly heading into the trade deadline the most likely scenario is that he stays on the roster and walks for nothing next offseason. Time will tell if that's good asset management.
Barnes could potentially be our 5th best player by years end no? I’d like to see what Barnes looks like as a 4th or 5th option on a team. The challenge is he will likely be paid as a 3rd option so we will see what happens. I’d probably take the risk of holding on to him and see what he commands in FA.
The issue for me is the Kings aren't really in a position to min-max one an asset like Barnes because of how important he is to this team right now. If the Kings make the playoffs, a big reason is going to be Barnes continuing his stellar play from the last 2 seasons.
I think there's value in having him play out this season, help us make a playoff push and then have his salary off the books for the last summer we'll have actual cap room to try and make some sort of splash play in the FA (or RFA) market while Sabonis is still cheap. Guys like PJ Washington (RFA), Grant Williams (RFA), Brandon Clarke (RFA), Cam Johnson (RFA), Andrew Wiggins (UFA) are key guys I'd look to spend that money on and get another core asset locked up with the rest of the core.
I look at what Brogdon went for (although he has a ton of money left so a Barnes rental may be more attractive to teams) as sort of a basis as what I'd expect Barnes to get. A FRP (maybe 2) and a younger player.
I think there's value in having him play out this season, help us make a playoff push and then have his salary off the books for the last summer we'll have actual cap room to try and make some sort of splash play in the FA (or RFA) market while Sabonis is still cheap. Guys like PJ Washington (RFA), Grant Williams (RFA), Brandon Clarke (RFA), Cam Johnson (RFA), Andrew Wiggins (UFA) are key guys I'd look to spend that money on and get another core asset locked up with the rest of the core.
I look at what Brogdon went for (although he has a ton of money left so a Barnes rental may be more attractive to teams) as sort of a basis as what I'd expect Barnes to get. A FRP (maybe 2) and a younger player.
Barnes is not worth anything close to Brogdan even if fully healthy, Barnes does not move the needle of any team he literally made the Kings worse the season they traded for him the team completely bombed and they have never improved since. You would have to be an idiot to give up a 1st if you are a GM for Barnes.
I definitely wouldn't blame Barnes for the Kings regressing that season. He came over and played fine.
Actually…In following seasons, the best stretches the Kings have had are typically tied to how well Barnes is playing. if he’s putting up 18-20+ point games and hitting his threes. Kings do good. It’s ridiculous to say he isn’t a needle mover and not worth a first. Since those have been offered for him. The question is how high up the pecking order of options is Barnes best at and do you have a winnjng team if Barnes is your second or third best player? Evidence says the answer is no..but he’s still a starter in the NBA and can bring value in trade from a higher echelon team…or, he may finally be in the right role on the new look Kings with more scoring options
Back to that almost good season
The second half fall probably mostly had to do with morale as Joerger/Vlade/Williams drama was spilling out in the public around mid season.
It also might sound silly if you don’t remember that season, but I think the Kings parting with Iman Shumpert when they didn’t have to for a player that they didn’t even use hurt the teams morale.
Shumpert had clearly been the veteran presence we always said the young guys needed but then he was unceremoniously shipped off in what was ultimately a non basketball move. Guys like Willie and Buddy openly griped about it.
Plus, Shumps energy wasn’t replaced. Kings didn’t use Burks and then ended up having to go get Brewer if I remember correctly to bring back what they threw away with Shumpert but it didn’t work.
yeah, Burks was better player(but redundant with Bogdan) and Shump didn’t play much for Houston and was out of the league a year later and he actually didn’t even play that well on most nights with the Kings. ..but anybody watching those games saw that Shumpert was massively important to what was going on.
Also, Major factors for the collapse
Buddy Hield had an awful second half of the season after a near all star caliber first half.
Bogdan significantly regressed in the second half as his role constantly switched from starter to reserve
Willie Cauley Stein had an excellent consistent first half where he was expected to get a decent contract and regressed significantly in the second half and stopped bringing it most nights even in a contract year.
Bagley was also having a lot of high energy, good performances off the bench and we lost him too.
I don’t think any of that was Barnes fault.
Actually…In following seasons, the best stretches the Kings have had are typically tied to how well Barnes is playing. if he’s putting up 18-20+ point games and hitting his threes. Kings do good. It’s ridiculous to say he isn’t a needle mover and not worth a first. Since those have been offered for him. The question is how high up the pecking order of options is Barnes best at and do you have a winnjng team if Barnes is your second or third best player? Evidence says the answer is no..but he’s still a starter in the NBA and can bring value in trade from a higher echelon team…or, he may finally be in the right role on the new look Kings with more scoring options
Back to that almost good season
The second half fall probably mostly had to do with morale as Joerger/Vlade/Williams drama was spilling out in the public around mid season.
It also might sound silly if you don’t remember that season, but I think the Kings parting with Iman Shumpert when they didn’t have to for a player that they didn’t even use hurt the teams morale.
Shumpert had clearly been the veteran presence we always said the young guys needed but then he was unceremoniously shipped off in what was ultimately a non basketball move. Guys like Willie and Buddy openly griped about it.
Plus, Shumps energy wasn’t replaced. Kings didn’t use Burks and then ended up having to go get Brewer if I remember correctly to bring back what they threw away with Shumpert but it didn’t work.
yeah, Burks was better player(but redundant with Bogdan) and Shump didn’t play much for Houston and was out of the league a year later and he actually didn’t even play that well on most nights with the Kings. ..but anybody watching those games saw that Shumpert was massively important to what was going on.
Also, Major factors for the collapse
Buddy Hield had an awful second half of the season after a near all star caliber first half.
Bogdan significantly regressed in the second half as his role constantly switched from starter to reserve
Willie Cauley Stein had an excellent consistent first half where he was expected to get a decent contract and regressed significantly in the second half and stopped bringing it most nights even in a contract year.
Bagley was also having a lot of high energy, good performances off the bench and we lost him too.
I don’t think any of that was Barnes fault.
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I totally agree with you. I have no problem with Barnes the player. He's only 30 years old, and probably has at least 4 to 5 good seasons left in him, especially if he becomes a bench player the last couple of years and plays less minutes. He's one of those players that really takes care of his body, and he's not injury prone. The question is, can you convince him to resign for less money. You want to trade him, then get me someone like Anunoby.
Yeah, every now and then someone resurrects the “Harrison Barnes trade killed the 18-19 season” trope but the case really isn’t there. Correlation is not causation. If you look at the impact stats after the trade, they don’t show Barnes dragging the team down. Of the guys playing 15 or more minutes, his net rating was only behind Bjelica and Fox.
My issue with Barnes is kind of just that the team really hasn’t necessarily gotten better since he came over…I’m in no way trying to say he’s not a valuable basketball player, but whatever locker room presence he’s bringing just hasn’t really elevated the team play.
He’s a guy that brings it every night and does his job without drama, but I’ve always kinda wished that his presence would elevate the team more. Certainly that’s not all on him, but I was really hopeful that his championship pedigree and experience on winning teams would be a more valuable asset than it has been so far.
Can’t really complain about the guy too much, but that’s why I’ve always been open to moving him for the right package, and I do think the fire that Shumpert brought was what was missing that season when he was traded. Barnes does his job and he does it well, but for a team that has a tendency to take their foot off the gas at times, that fire is really important, and that’s what you don’t really get with Barnes.
Not saying we should move him, but if the right package comes along, I do think he’s an expendable asset under the right circumstances.
He’s a guy that brings it every night and does his job without drama, but I’ve always kinda wished that his presence would elevate the team more. Certainly that’s not all on him, but I was really hopeful that his championship pedigree and experience on winning teams would be a more valuable asset than it has been so far.
Can’t really complain about the guy too much, but that’s why I’ve always been open to moving him for the right package, and I do think the fire that Shumpert brought was what was missing that season when he was traded. Barnes does his job and he does it well, but for a team that has a tendency to take their foot off the gas at times, that fire is really important, and that’s what you don’t really get with Barnes.
Not saying we should move him, but if the right package comes along, I do think he’s an expendable asset under the right circumstances.