KINGS PICKING 4TH IN 2022 NBA DRAFT!
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You apparently omitted the defensive side of the ball with your prospect analysis.
LBJ was a 2-way player even coming out of HS. So were a few other top prospects since 2003.
While I was firmly on the #77 train for our #2 pick back then, he was never thought of as a 2-way player. And several years into his NBA career he is still nowhere close to it.
Main point being, why do so many only take into consideration offensive ability? IMO that’s precisely why so many org’s fail in their pursuit of championships, or in the KINGS case fail to even qualify for the postseason. They overrate and over-rely on offensive-minded players that are either not interested in or incapable of playing passable defense.
LBJ was a 2-way player even coming out of HS. So were a few other top prospects since 2003.
While I was firmly on the #77 train for our #2 pick back then, he was never thought of as a 2-way player. And several years into his NBA career he is still nowhere close to it.
Main point being, why do so many only take into consideration offensive ability? IMO that’s precisely why so many org’s fail in their pursuit of championships, or in the KINGS case fail to even qualify for the postseason. They overrate and over-rely on offensive-minded players that are either not interested in or incapable of playing passable defense.
I did take it into account, I just didn't think it was a big enough reason not to take him. It's probably also worth mentioning that James Harden was the reigning league MVP at the time so I was starting to waver on my "only draft two-way players" philosophy. And I think that's the right call, actually. If you can get a top 5 player in the draft (that's top 5 in the league, which Doncic already is) you take him even if his defense isn't up to par and figure out the rest later. And I think he's actually been better than expected on defense, though no one is going to compare him to Lebron on that end.
I like him a lot too -- just not enough to take him at #4. I have him ranked 7th or 8th right now. I think Tari Eason is worth taking at #4 though and he fits just as well defensively with an ability to guard most positions. That's a glaring omission from Aldridge's forward rankings but I guess most people have him ranked outside of the top 10 right now.
I like Sochan a lot, but you're gambling on his shot improving significantly since you HAVE to have players around Fox and Sabonis that can stretch the floor. He shot just under 30% from three and just under 59% from the line. Sochan also doesn't really have a great offensive game in terms of attacking off the dribble. He was really getting his points of cuts and dump offs to the dunker's spot.
He's definitely gives off some younger, skinnier Draymond vibes with his defensive switchability and the flashes of playmaking he shows, but his shooting scares me.
He's definitely gives off some younger, skinnier Draymond vibes with his defensive switchability and the flashes of playmaking he shows, but his shooting scares me.
I haven't found/watched a lot of tape on Jovic. He can definitely pass the ball as a big forward, but he turns it over far too much right now. I think he'll struggle with that in the NBA, at least initially. Right now, he seems like a guy that is okay at a lot of things but not really great at anything. And I think he'll struggle to defend in the NBA. He should become a stretch 4 who adds some playmaking but I'm not sure how high his ceiling is.
Again, this is just my snapshot from the little I've seen.
Again, this is just my snapshot from the little I've seen.
Yeah, that's the really interesting aspect of this draft. Guys like Sochan/Eason/Daniels can be real game-breakers on defense with their size/switchability, but you gotta take a real leap of faith that their offense/shooting can come around. If it does? I think all 3 have the upside of being the best players in this draft. But they'd have to show it.
-Chet has to prove his weight can hold up and if he can hang with NBA 4's. I think it'd be a lot to ask him to bang inside with the Jokic/Embiid/Nurkic/Gobert/Sabonis/Vuc types on the interior his first few years as a pro.
-Paolo and Ivey probably have the highest "#1/#2 option" upside of anyone, but come with real defensive concerns. They have all the tools to be great defenders but have to show it at the NBA level. Can both of them shoot at a high enough level? Is Ivey just an off-guard, or is there lead-playmaker ability there too?
-Jabari is one of the best shooting prospects we've seen in a long time and has all the physical tools to be a special defender. But does he develop an on-ball game? Or does everything have to be created for him?
-AJ Griffin is another incredible shooting prospect, but showed some real rust with his athleticism and didn't have the same explosiveness he did in high school. Wasn't good on D.
-Keegan probably showed the best 2-way ability on anyone in this class (right now), but does his scoring translate? If he doesn't get as many post-ups as he did in college, does he still thrive? Is he a true 3/4 flex wing or is the foot-speed to slow that he's strictly a 4?
-Johnny Davis showed elite on-ball creation as a scorer and real defensive upside as a guard defender. But the efficiency wasn't great and he didn't shoot well. Can he still be valuable if he's asked to be in a C&S shoot role as a 3rd-4th option?
-Sharpe is the mystery box. Can anyone outside of OKC risk a top 10 pick on him?
So yeah, there's just a lot of really elite tools in this class, but they just don't come in one player who doesn't have some warts he has to answer for at the next level. Going to be fascinating to look back at who rose to the top of this class in 4 years.
-Chet has to prove his weight can hold up and if he can hang with NBA 4's. I think it'd be a lot to ask him to bang inside with the Jokic/Embiid/Nurkic/Gobert/Sabonis/Vuc types on the interior his first few years as a pro.
-Paolo and Ivey probably have the highest "#1/#2 option" upside of anyone, but come with real defensive concerns. They have all the tools to be great defenders but have to show it at the NBA level. Can both of them shoot at a high enough level? Is Ivey just an off-guard, or is there lead-playmaker ability there too?
-Jabari is one of the best shooting prospects we've seen in a long time and has all the physical tools to be a special defender. But does he develop an on-ball game? Or does everything have to be created for him?
-AJ Griffin is another incredible shooting prospect, but showed some real rust with his athleticism and didn't have the same explosiveness he did in high school. Wasn't good on D.
-Keegan probably showed the best 2-way ability on anyone in this class (right now), but does his scoring translate? If he doesn't get as many post-ups as he did in college, does he still thrive? Is he a true 3/4 flex wing or is the foot-speed to slow that he's strictly a 4?
-Johnny Davis showed elite on-ball creation as a scorer and real defensive upside as a guard defender. But the efficiency wasn't great and he didn't shoot well. Can he still be valuable if he's asked to be in a C&S shoot role as a 3rd-4th option?
-Sharpe is the mystery box. Can anyone outside of OKC risk a top 10 pick on him?
So yeah, there's just a lot of really elite tools in this class, but they just don't come in one player who doesn't have some warts he has to answer for at the next level. Going to be fascinating to look back at who rose to the top of this class in 4 years.
Eason's shot is really interesting. On the one hand, he shot just under 36% from three on decent volume and shot just over 80% from the FT line on pretty high volume. On the other hand, his mechanics are an issue.
Tari has a pretty simple and repeatable shot, but it's a slow, comes from low on his right side (exaggerated dip and low release point), and is kind of a flinging motion. He'll need space to get it off in the NBA. And if you watched him at LSU, he had a fair amount of pull up midrange shots get blocked just because his release point is more like a 6'2" player than a 6'7" or 6'8" guy and it takes him time to wind it up.
Haliburton has a somewhat similar issue and manages to get his shot off when he needs to, but Hali has a LOT more awareness than Eason and knows how to set up his jumper to get the space he needs. He also shoots MUCH better from outside on the right side than the left.
But I think he'll be able to become enough of a reliable shooter from the corners when he has time to space the floor. But he'd really have to overall his mechanics to reach a star level because right now he can't really create his own shot from outside and he's often out of control when he attacks the basket. That last point I worry about less. Yeah, he has some bad tape in terms of turnovers, tunnel vision, lack of touch at the basket (especially with his left), but the fact that he has the tools and willingness to try these things is part of what I like about him. I'll take the guy whose a bit out of control but has a real motor and desire to win. I think it's easier to smooth out some of his edges than to get guys to play harder if they don't already. Especially on defense.
Speaking of a kid that doesn't play hard on defense - the more I watch of Sharpe, the less I like him. Yeah, it's EYBL and nobody is locking anybody else down, but Sharpe was flat out bad on that end. But more importantly, on offense he just wasn't beating guys. His first step is not quick and if he struggles to turn the corner at that level, I can't imagine he can do it in the NBA. Most of his movement is east-west instead of north-south and he's really looking to just create space for his jumper. That's a tough way to score a lot of point in the NBA unless you can do it at a James Harden level and/or with Steph level shooting.
Again, super athlete and lots of tools, but I just don't see him as a homerun swing anymore. Or maybe I'm just biased because his unwillingness to compete at the combine or in workouts turned me off him. We'll see.
Tari has a pretty simple and repeatable shot, but it's a slow, comes from low on his right side (exaggerated dip and low release point), and is kind of a flinging motion. He'll need space to get it off in the NBA. And if you watched him at LSU, he had a fair amount of pull up midrange shots get blocked just because his release point is more like a 6'2" player than a 6'7" or 6'8" guy and it takes him time to wind it up.
Haliburton has a somewhat similar issue and manages to get his shot off when he needs to, but Hali has a LOT more awareness than Eason and knows how to set up his jumper to get the space he needs. He also shoots MUCH better from outside on the right side than the left.
But I think he'll be able to become enough of a reliable shooter from the corners when he has time to space the floor. But he'd really have to overall his mechanics to reach a star level because right now he can't really create his own shot from outside and he's often out of control when he attacks the basket. That last point I worry about less. Yeah, he has some bad tape in terms of turnovers, tunnel vision, lack of touch at the basket (especially with his left), but the fact that he has the tools and willingness to try these things is part of what I like about him. I'll take the guy whose a bit out of control but has a real motor and desire to win. I think it's easier to smooth out some of his edges than to get guys to play harder if they don't already. Especially on defense.
Speaking of a kid that doesn't play hard on defense - the more I watch of Sharpe, the less I like him. Yeah, it's EYBL and nobody is locking anybody else down, but Sharpe was flat out bad on that end. But more importantly, on offense he just wasn't beating guys. His first step is not quick and if he struggles to turn the corner at that level, I can't imagine he can do it in the NBA. Most of his movement is east-west instead of north-south and he's really looking to just create space for his jumper. That's a tough way to score a lot of point in the NBA unless you can do it at a James Harden level and/or with Steph level shooting.
Again, super athlete and lots of tools, but I just don't see him as a homerun swing anymore. Or maybe I'm just biased because his unwillingness to compete at the combine or in workouts turned me off him. We'll see.
The play of Porzingis ruining his knee trying to dunk on Giannis comes to mind.
Chet seems like a smart dude that knows how to play within his limitations. So, I’m not worried about it. But I can’t rule out that his body might limit his effectiveness or longevity. And yes, I can say the same thing about myself…
Chet seems like a smart dude that knows how to play within his limitations. So, I’m not worried about it. But I can’t rule out that his body might limit his effectiveness or longevity. And yes, I can say the same thing about myself…
And Chet is a lot sturdier than Porzingis. Porzingis always looked shaky those jelly knees. Chet uses his body well but it's a pick and roll players league and verticality is not called anymore and if he gets sent into the stands by a big G/F he's getting the foul. Him being able to switch is the best thing about him but if he goes to a team expecting Mutombo they might be disappointed.
Yeah, and that sequence on Jalen Williams is the concern for me. Chet has the mobility and length to cover on the perimeter, but bigger playmakers can push him. Overall he's still capable and I watched a ton of players think they could move him and get enough space to get the shot off and were wrong, but NBA rules could change some of that with all the flopping.
I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said here. We definitely should have drafted him despite the defensive warts. Absolutely. Although like the bearded hag, I believe he will have a serious uphill climb to winning a championship.
The Hag never will be the bus driver of a title team and I have serious doubts that #77 ever will unless paired with the right mix of defensive capable players. But I’ll digress.
My main point of contention was considering #77 as the best prospect since LBJ — not whether the KINGS should have drafted him despite his defensive issues (Bagley is just as bad on that end anyway).
I’m saying you must have overlooked the defensive side of the ball if you believed #77 is the best prospect since LBJ. Because there have been quite a few better prospects since 2003 in terms of all-around talent.
The Hag never will be the bus driver of a title team and I have serious doubts that #77 ever will unless paired with the right mix of defensive capable players. But I’ll digress.
My main point of contention was considering #77 as the best prospect since LBJ — not whether the KINGS should have drafted him despite his defensive issues (Bagley is just as bad on that end anyway).
I’m saying you must have overlooked the defensive side of the ball if you believed #77 is the best prospect since LBJ. Because there have been quite a few better prospects since 2003 in terms of all-around talent.
Well, if we can agree that grading prospects is subjective, I didn't claim that he was the best prospect or the best player since Lebron only that he was the best prospect I've seen since Lebron. Which is to say, of everyone I got a chance to watch pre-draft, none of them impressed me more than Luka did. That includes Durant, Derrick Rose, John Wall, James Harden, Anthony Davis, Kyrie Irving, Giannis, Steph, Westbrook, Embiid, Lillard, CP3. I didn't watch Jokic or Gobert pre-draft so I can't speak to their prospect credentials. I'm leaving lots of dudes out here but I've watched most of them. In terms of his age, where he was at in his development, his size and body type, his ability to both see and execute plays that 99% of NBA players aren't capable of as a teenager, and his resume carrying a Euroleague team to a championship as a teenager -- he's the only guy I would even put in the same conversation as Lebron pre-draft.
Several of them had more potential because of their ability on both ends but 'highest ceiling' is not the same thing to me as best prospect because most players don't reach their ceiling. Harden and Steph developed into much better players than I predicted. Kevin Durant was a monster on offense in college but it took him awhile to grow into his body and become a top tier defender as well. Wall and Rose were phenomenal athletes who couldn't shoot. Irving got injured before he showed much of anything at Duke. Kawhi was supposed to be a 3-and-D roleplayer if he could learn to shoot. Paul George was considered a reach at pick #10. Giannis was barely a shadow of who he is now when he was drafted. Some of them I underestimated and some of them I overestimated but I can say definitively that on draft day I've never felt as strongly about a prospect as I felt about Luka -- with the possible exception of Greg Oden but I'd only been following the draft for a few years at that point and did only a fraction of the research I did on those 2018 prospects so in retrospect I didn't really earn that confidence anyway. I skipped most of the 2019 college season and did no research on any of the players in that draft because I was so angry about the 2018 draft that I didn't even want to watch basketball anymore.
Several of them had more potential because of their ability on both ends but 'highest ceiling' is not the same thing to me as best prospect because most players don't reach their ceiling. Harden and Steph developed into much better players than I predicted. Kevin Durant was a monster on offense in college but it took him awhile to grow into his body and become a top tier defender as well. Wall and Rose were phenomenal athletes who couldn't shoot. Irving got injured before he showed much of anything at Duke. Kawhi was supposed to be a 3-and-D roleplayer if he could learn to shoot. Paul George was considered a reach at pick #10. Giannis was barely a shadow of who he is now when he was drafted. Some of them I underestimated and some of them I overestimated but I can say definitively that on draft day I've never felt as strongly about a prospect as I felt about Luka -- with the possible exception of Greg Oden but I'd only been following the draft for a few years at that point and did only a fraction of the research I did on those 2018 prospects so in retrospect I didn't really earn that confidence anyway. I skipped most of the 2019 college season and did no research on any of the players in that draft because I was so angry about the 2018 draft that I didn't even want to watch basketball anymore.
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Thanks for the explanation. And you surely can have whatever opinion you want, of course.
But in your 1st paragraph you confirmed what I suspected. Your assessment was almost entirely based upon his offensive skillset. Age and maturity (again, on the offensive end of the floor) being another consideration.
Circling back to my point, if talking solely about his offensive game then I can see how you arrived at your opinion. But as an entire package, several of those other names — along with some you didn’t mention — were better, more well-rounded prospects even if underdeveloped. The potential on both sides of the floor was higher.
I guess what I’m not understanding is why you ignored the defensive side of the ball as well as the huge factor of athleticism when forming your opinion. Because I don’t see how a bright basketball guy like you can see him as the best prospect since LBJ when considering all factors.
A guy like AD was surely a better prospect on the whole. From his potential on the offensive end to his DPOY capability. I’d say the same for Joel Embiid. And KD, despite his slight frame.
I’d also put John Wall on that list, as he had the superstar potential at both ends. Even Andrew Wiggins and Ben Simmons fall into that category to a degree, even though neither have reached the potential many saw in them. And CP3 as a pure PG was as good a prospect on both ends as you’ll see.
As far as lesser defensive guys go, I’d argue that Derrick Rose and Russell Westbrook were both better prospects and likely viewed that way by the majority.
Most of us didn’t see much of Giannis but those that did — like our own Geoff Petrie — thought he was a helluva prospect with the natural size, skill and athleticism to become what he has become.
Again, your opinion and POV is clearly much different but I firmly believe it’s because you omitted factors most talent evaluators consider pretty important.
But in your 1st paragraph you confirmed what I suspected. Your assessment was almost entirely based upon his offensive skillset. Age and maturity (again, on the offensive end of the floor) being another consideration.
Circling back to my point, if talking solely about his offensive game then I can see how you arrived at your opinion. But as an entire package, several of those other names — along with some you didn’t mention — were better, more well-rounded prospects even if underdeveloped. The potential on both sides of the floor was higher.
I guess what I’m not understanding is why you ignored the defensive side of the ball as well as the huge factor of athleticism when forming your opinion. Because I don’t see how a bright basketball guy like you can see him as the best prospect since LBJ when considering all factors.
A guy like AD was surely a better prospect on the whole. From his potential on the offensive end to his DPOY capability. I’d say the same for Joel Embiid. And KD, despite his slight frame.
I’d also put John Wall on that list, as he had the superstar potential at both ends. Even Andrew Wiggins and Ben Simmons fall into that category to a degree, even though neither have reached the potential many saw in them. And CP3 as a pure PG was as good a prospect on both ends as you’ll see.
As far as lesser defensive guys go, I’d argue that Derrick Rose and Russell Westbrook were both better prospects and likely viewed that way by the majority.
Most of us didn’t see much of Giannis but those that did — like our own Geoff Petrie — thought he was a helluva prospect with the natural size, skill and athleticism to become what he has become.
Again, your opinion and POV is clearly much different but I firmly believe it’s because you omitted factors most talent evaluators consider pretty important.
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Well then you're firmly wrong. 
I didn't omit anything. My analysis was entirely based on watching his games over the course of a year and making up my own mind about his potential on both offense and defense. You're resurrecting one of the talking points from our 2018 prospects discussion for some reason even though he's finished 4th, 6th, and 5th respectively in the last three MVP votes and his career playoff averages to date are 32, 9, and 8 which includes leading his team to the WCF this season. Why?
It's also a point of view ("Luka is a poor defender" ) that I've never agreed with. He's not one of the best defenders in the league but he has a basketball IQ of about 1000 and he's a better athlete than most will ever give him credit for. Team defense is what wins in the NBA not individual ďefensive prowess and he's a capable team defender in addition to being an elite offensive player both as a scorer and a passer. Aside from the fact that there's no reason to re-litigate this in the context of this current conversation, basically you're trying to tell me I was wrong to call Luka a guaranteed hall of famer when his career to date points overwhelmingly in the direction that he's a guaranteed hall of famer.
I didn't omit anything. My analysis was entirely based on watching his games over the course of a year and making up my own mind about his potential on both offense and defense. You're resurrecting one of the talking points from our 2018 prospects discussion for some reason even though he's finished 4th, 6th, and 5th respectively in the last three MVP votes and his career playoff averages to date are 32, 9, and 8 which includes leading his team to the WCF this season. Why? It's also a point of view ("Luka is a poor defender" ) that I've never agreed with. He's not one of the best defenders in the league but he has a basketball IQ of about 1000 and he's a better athlete than most will ever give him credit for. Team defense is what wins in the NBA not individual ďefensive prowess and he's a capable team defender in addition to being an elite offensive player both as a scorer and a passer. Aside from the fact that there's no reason to re-litigate this in the context of this current conversation, basically you're trying to tell me I was wrong to call Luka a guaranteed hall of famer when his career to date points overwhelmingly in the direction that he's a guaranteed hall of famer.
Well then you're firmly wrong. I didn't omit anything. My analysis was entirely based on watching his games over the course of a year and making up my own mind about his potential on both offense and defense. You're resurrecting one of the talking points from our 2018 prospects discussion for some reason even though he's finished 4th, 6th, and 5th respectively in the last three MVP votes and his career playoff averages to date are 32, 9, and 8 which includes leading his team to the WCF this season. Why?
It's also a point of view ("Luka is a poor defender" ) that I've never agreed with. He's not one of the best defenders in the league but he has a basketball IQ of about 1000 and he's a better athlete than most will ever give him credit for. Team defense is what wins in the NBA not individual ďefensive prowess and he's a capable team defender in addition to being an elite offensive player both as a scorer and a passer. Aside from the fact that there's no reason to re-litigate this in the context of this current conversation, basically you're trying to tell me I was wrong to call Luka a guaranteed hall of famer when his career to date points overwhelmingly in the direction that he's a guaranteed hall of famer.
I didn't omit anything. My analysis was entirely based on watching his games over the course of a year and making up my own mind about his potential on both offense and defense. You're resurrecting one of the talking points from our 2018 prospects discussion for some reason even though he's finished 4th, 6th, and 5th respectively in the last three MVP votes and his career playoff averages to date are 32, 9, and 8 which includes leading his team to the WCF this season. Why?It's also a point of view ("Luka is a poor defender" ) that I've never agreed with. He's not one of the best defenders in the league but he has a basketball IQ of about 1000 and he's a better athlete than most will ever give him credit for. Team defense is what wins in the NBA not individual ďefensive prowess and he's a capable team defender in addition to being an elite offensive player both as a scorer and a passer. Aside from the fact that there's no reason to re-litigate this in the context of this current conversation, basically you're trying to tell me I was wrong to call Luka a guaranteed hall of famer when his career to date points overwhelmingly in the direction that he's a guaranteed hall of famer.
ROY
EuroLeague MVP
3 time All-NBA 1st team
Career 26.4 PPG, 8.5 RPG, 8.0 APG on 57.3% TS
How many guys aren't in the HoF with this resume? I think longevity does matter for HoF, but he basically already has more than elite enough of a peak to justify him being in. And he's 22....
Well then you're firmly wrong. I didn't omit anything. My analysis was entirely based on watching his games over the course of a year and making up my own mind about his potential on both offense and defense. You're resurrecting one of the talking points from our 2018 prospects discussion for some reason even though he's finished 4th, 6th, and 5th respectively in the last three MVP votes and his career playoff averages to date are 32, 9, and 8 which includes leading his team to the WCF this season. Why?
It's also a point of view ("Luka is a poor defender" ) that I've never agreed with. He's not one of the best defenders in the league but he has a basketball IQ of about 1000 and he's a better athlete than most will ever give him credit for. Team defense is what wins in the NBA not individual ďefensive prowess and he's a capable team defender in addition to being an elite offensive player both as a scorer and a passer. Aside from the fact that there's no reason to re-litigate this in the context of this current conversation, basically you're trying to tell me I was wrong to call Luka a guaranteed hall of famer when his career to date points overwhelmingly in the direction that he's a guaranteed hall of famer.
I didn't omit anything. My analysis was entirely based on watching his games over the course of a year and making up my own mind about his potential on both offense and defense. You're resurrecting one of the talking points from our 2018 prospects discussion for some reason even though he's finished 4th, 6th, and 5th respectively in the last three MVP votes and his career playoff averages to date are 32, 9, and 8 which includes leading his team to the WCF this season. Why?It's also a point of view ("Luka is a poor defender" ) that I've never agreed with. He's not one of the best defenders in the league but he has a basketball IQ of about 1000 and he's a better athlete than most will ever give him credit for. Team defense is what wins in the NBA not individual ďefensive prowess and he's a capable team defender in addition to being an elite offensive player both as a scorer and a passer. Aside from the fact that there's no reason to re-litigate this in the context of this current conversation, basically you're trying to tell me I was wrong to call Luka a guaranteed hall of famer when his career to date points overwhelmingly in the direction that he's a guaranteed hall of famer.
Everything you keep citing — most notably being a “guaranteed HOF’er” is ONLY considering one side of the floor. Which was precisely the point I brought up from the beginning. Why so many over-value one side of the floor is beyond me (except when discussing players on the KINGS).
And correction, #77 is a bad defender. Did you not watch the the postseason this year? It was on full display. He was exposed. All anybody seems to want to notice are the immense offensive numbers. But his defense was among the reasons the Mavs lost that series.
But I guess that doesn’t matter, right? He’s a future HOF just like the Bearded Hag. SMH.
Players such as AD, KD, Embiid, CP3, Wall, and Simmons were all considered elite prospects when they entered the draft. With elite potential on both sides of the ball, just like LBJ. And at least 4 of them clearly are better all-around players than #77.
I’ll conclude by saying this, again. I get that your opinion is your opinion and that you are entitled to it. All I continue to point out is that your opinion was formed over-valuing one side of the floor. You can deny it all you want, but it’s the truth.
More citing of achievements and accolades from the offensive side of the ball. Typical NBA fan.
As I said, if the discussion were “best prospect on the offensive side of the ball since LBJ” these arguments would make some sense.
Nobody made the claim that he won’t end up in the HOF. Or that he isn’t an elite offensive talent. Or that he wasn’t an elite offensive prospect from his draft class. Hell, I pounded the table for the KINGS to draft him.
But as has been overwhelmingly proven by the last few responses by you and hrdboild — only offensive is being considered here with regard to “best prospect since LBJ”. Which was the entire point from the beginning.
As a complete player, #77 wasn’t close to the best prospect since LBJ nor has he developed into that player.
He’s an elite offensive talent. Just like a myriad of players in the league are and have been over the years.
A pretty impressive list of HOF and future HOF players can be cited with similar or better credentials that also were lacking defensive credentials and rings.
None of which qualifies them for “best prospect since LBJ”.
Anybody subscribing to that was clearly omitting half the game. Whether they admit it or not. There was simply no other way to come to that conclusion.
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Dude. He's finished in the top 6 for MVP voting in 3 of his first 4 seasons. Nobody else has done that since Lebron. Everything else is irrelevant. Is he hurting Dallas defensively? They won 52 games and made it to the Western Conference Finals. I think that's serious nitpicking to then say "yeah but they lost". Look at who they lost to.
It's quite possible to look at the average of "potentially the best player in the league on offense" and "potentially a little below average on defense" and come to the conclusion that this is the best prospect of the last 15 years without ignoring defense. I don't need complete players, I need players who help me win. 30 and 9 is accounting for 50 points. 50! I'll pay someone else to protect the paint. I'll sign someone like Pat Beverly for $10-15 million to D up opposing PGs. Find me another player who's giving me 30 and 9 and is also an elite defender. There's maybe 2 or 3 in the league. If I get to choose, sure I'll take Giannis but if half the teams in the league passed on this guy he obviously wasn't a sure-thing at age 19.
It's quite possible to look at the average of "potentially the best player in the league on offense" and "potentially a little below average on defense" and come to the conclusion that this is the best prospect of the last 15 years without ignoring defense. I don't need complete players, I need players who help me win. 30 and 9 is accounting for 50 points. 50! I'll pay someone else to protect the paint. I'll sign someone like Pat Beverly for $10-15 million to D up opposing PGs. Find me another player who's giving me 30 and 9 and is also an elite defender. There's maybe 2 or 3 in the league. If I get to choose, sure I'll take Giannis but if half the teams in the league passed on this guy he obviously wasn't a sure-thing at age 19.
Whatever lol. Dude is a top 5 player in the game, just lead his team to the WCF at 22 years old. No prospect since LBJ has come close to his first 4 years in the league production/team results. How many 18 year Euroleague MVPs that lead their team to a championship again? We're not the one ignoring results here, you are.
And as hdr said, I'll go sign defensive players to surround him. He's not even a negative on defense. But what's for damn sure is I won't ever find 30-9-9 in FA and we'll maybe get 1 player in the next 10 years in the draft that's Luka level good on offense. He's a generational player and if he stays healthy is going to be one of the best to ever play basketball. You can stay delusional if you want, that's your choice.
Given how many 3's Dallas shoots I'd say his 30 & 9 is definitely more than 50 points.
And if we're talking about the most complete prospects ENTERING the NBA draft since LeBron I'm not sure who else is even in that conversation beyond Anthony Davis and maybe Zion Williamson. Blake Griffin, Greg Oden, Kyrie Irving, and Ben Simmons were clearly the #1 prospects in their drafts but Doncic had a stronger pedigree.
And if we're talking impact in their first few seasons, no one on that list matches Luka.
I'm not even sure what the argument is here. Doncic is a generational offensive talent and (at this point) a slightly below average defensive player. The same could be said of Magic and Bird. And for that matter Steph and Harden.
Let's try this. Who was a better PROSPECT since LeBron if it wasn't Doncic? If the counter argument isn't AD, I'm not sure who else it could possibly be since guys like Kawhi and Giannis definitely weren't.
And if we're talking about the most complete prospects ENTERING the NBA draft since LeBron I'm not sure who else is even in that conversation beyond Anthony Davis and maybe Zion Williamson. Blake Griffin, Greg Oden, Kyrie Irving, and Ben Simmons were clearly the #1 prospects in their drafts but Doncic had a stronger pedigree.
And if we're talking impact in their first few seasons, no one on that list matches Luka.
I'm not even sure what the argument is here. Doncic is a generational offensive talent and (at this point) a slightly below average defensive player. The same could be said of Magic and Bird. And for that matter Steph and Harden.
Let's try this. Who was a better PROSPECT since LeBron if it wasn't Doncic? If the counter argument isn't AD, I'm not sure who else it could possibly be since guys like Kawhi and Giannis definitely weren't.
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