The Tankathon Thread (since that's apparently what this is now)

[ESP47]

Sorry- didn’t know I needed to shorten my thoughts for your viewing pleasure. If you are going to smugly claim TLDR then at least summarize the post correctly…

I get what you're saying but we can't just justify the wins by saying they were completely due to Jones and Mitchell. I don't feel like looking at the box scores again but I'm pretty sure Barnes played 40+ in both games while Queta, Jackson and Harkless didn't play at all. Whether Barnes plays well during a particular game or not is irrelevant when it comes to the poor decisions this franchise continues to make. The guy is a winning player overall and playing him 40 minutes when there is nothing to play for but a lot to lose is just terrible management by the franchise. Harkless and Jackson could both have filled in for him during those games. The guy should be getting rest days against weak teams but at minimum he should not be playing 40 minutes in meaningless games.

They're being smart by not bringing Fox and Sabonis back to get reinjured but they're still playing checkers when it comes to draft positioning. This isn't rocket surgery. Lose games when they don't matter to give yourself the best chance at a top 5 pick because that's where the game changers lie in most drafts.

 

[Rain man]

I get what you're saying but we can't just justify the wins by saying they were completely due to Jones and Mitchell. I don't feel like looking at the box scores again but I'm pretty sure Barnes played 40+ in both games while Queta, Jackson and Harkless didn't play at all. Whether Barnes plays well during a particular game or not is irrelevant when it comes to the poor decisions this franchise continues to make. The guy is a winning player overall and playing him 40 minutes when there is nothing to play for but a lot to lose is just terrible management by the franchise. Harkless and Jackson could both have filled in for him during those games. The guy should be getting rest days against weak teams but at minimum he should not be playing 40 minutes in meaningless games.

They're being smart by not bringing Fox and Sabonis back to get reinjured but they're still playing checkers when it comes to draft positioning. This isn't rocket surgery. Lose games when they don't matter to give yourself the best chance at a top 5 pick because that's where the game changers lie in most drafts.

I agree we should be sitting Barnes. Really makes no sense to play him now. But I just don't think that he is good enough, on balance, to be turning losses into wins, especially when he is your best player. He isn't an alpha who is taking over games because the best guys are out. It seems like no matter who plays, Barnes is content to be the 3rd or 4th option and play off of the other guys. I really can't remember any games (even early in the year when he was on a tear) where he went alpha and took over games. When he is at his best he is scoring 20-25 on 10 shots, getting to the line and hitting open threes.

But yeah- he should absolutely be sitting. I totally agree with that. If we have made any misstep in our tank it is playing Barnes.

 

[gunks]

Bah.. all this hullabaloo over a draft with no franchise player level talent

That and McNair picking 5-8 >>>>>> Vlade with the top pick. So I'm feeling zen about it. We'd be in that 3rd tier of players either way, which is pretty deep with interesting prospects.

I'd love for us to get Murray though.

 

[upinsmoke]

I haven't followed the draft at all this year but whoever is the best defensive wing let's get him.

 

[EIM86]

Sorry- didn’t know I needed to shorten my thoughts for your viewing pleasure. If you are going to smugly claim TLDR then at least summarize the post correctly…

LOL the intent was to troll and it worked

 

[The_Jamal]

I agree we should be sitting Barnes. Really makes no sense to play him now. But I just don't think that he is good enough, on balance, to be turning losses into wins, especially when he is your best player. He isn't an alpha who is taking over games because the best guys are out. It seems like no matter who plays, Barnes is content to be the 3rd or 4th option and play off of the other guys. I really can't remember any games (even early in the year when he was on a tear) where he went alpha and took over games. When he is at his best he is scoring 20-25 on 10 shots, getting to the line and hitting open threes.

But yeah- he should absolutely be sitting. I totally agree with that. If we have made any misstep in our tank it is playing Barnes.

Yeah, the lineup we're throwing out is rather bad. The only reason we've won 2 games is a last second tip-in by Jones (which Hali could have prevented by at least pretending to box out) to a completely depleted Pacers team and the Magic blowing an 8 point lead in the last 1:25. The Heat game gave us a pretty clear indication of that.

And the really, the only reason we were close in those games is because Mitchell has looked like a high-level 2-way starter. Barnes is playing way too many minutes but since Fox/Sabonis have been out:

17-2-3 on 5-10 shooting 38 minutes
19-7-5 on 6-14 shooting 40 minutes
11-5-1 on 5-11 shooting 33 minutes


I'm more upset Gentry is putting more unnecessary mileage on a dude we need to stay healthy for next season. Especially when we do have the wing depth to keep him in the 28-30 MPG range with Harkless and Josh Jackson. I get he probably has to play since we have 4 dudes out with injury, but playing him like we're pushing for a playoff run is coaching malpractice.

Play Queta, sit Barnes and use a wider rotation are the three things we need down the stretch here.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I know he's not in the plans but I wish we got to see more Josh Jackson.

 

[hrdboild]

If there were a sure-thing superstar at the top of the draft this year I could understand the consternation over end of the season wins but I think in this year's draft the players in the top 10 are all at about the same level or at least I don't think there's a strong consensus about the order. Earlier in the season there was a pretty solid top 4 and then everyone else but some of the guys in that second tier really turned up their performance in the second half of the season to the point where I don't see much separation anymore. Lower in the lottery you're going to have less choices, obviously, but I don't think there's a huge dropoff in talent.

 

[sactowndog]

[

If there were a sure-thing superstar at the top of the draft this year I could understand the consternation over end of the season wins but I think in this year's draft the players in the top 10 are all at about the same level or at least I don't think there's a strong consensus about the order. Earlier in the season there was a pretty solid top 4 and then everyone else but some of the guys in that second tier really turned up their performance in the second half of the season to the point where I don't see much separation anymore. Lower in the lottery you're going to have less choices, obviously, but I don't think there's a huge dropoff in talent.

I think part of the consternation is we need a decent forward in the worst way and historically they all go early. Williams was supposed to be around or Vassell. Both were gone before we picked. One of Giddey, Wagner or Kuminga were supposed to fall to us and none did.

if you slide to 8 or 9 a high chance exists that the BPA could be an under 6’4” guard.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

[


I think part of the consternation is we need a decent forward in the worst way and historically they all go early. Williams was supposed to be around or Vassell. Both were gone before we picked. One of Giddey, Wagner or Kuminga were supposed to fall to us and none did.

if you slide to 8 or 9 a high chance exists that the BPA could be an under 6’4” guard.

This is my big worry.

Second is a personal thing but getting leapfrogged, so to speak, by Portland is just not something I'm prepared to deal with.

 

[The_Jamal]

[


I think part of the consternation is we need a decent forward in the worst way and historically they all go early. Williams was supposed to be around or Vassell. Both were gone before we picked. One of Giddey, Wagner or Kuminga were supposed to fall to us and none did.

if you slide to 8 or 9 a high chance exists that the BPA could be an under 6’4” guard.

If we pick 8:

Chet
Jabari
Paolo
Ivey
Davis
Murray
Mathurin
Griffin

We're guaranteed one of these players. And there's potentially a reasonable chance that a Duren/TyTy or even like a Sochan has a huge rise and potentially lets another guy fall

And we've been locked in the the 7th place lotto odds as a floor for awhile now. So unless we get crazy unlucky with 2 teams behind us leap-frogging, we're going to stay in that top 8.

 

[hrdboild]

If we pick 8:

Chet
Jabari
Paolo
Ivey
Davis
Murray
Mathurin
Griffin

We're guaranteed one of these players. And there's potentially a reasonable chance that a Duren/TyTy or even like a Sochan has a huge rise and potentially lets another guy fall

And we've been locked in the the 7th place lotto odds as a floor for awhile now. So unless we get crazy unlucky with 2 teams behind us leap-frogging, we're going to stay in that top 8.

And I would argue that Tari Eason is a better wing defender than all of them (which is our biggest need) and he will probably still be there at 8, so not a bad consolation prize.

 

[The_Jamal]

And I would argue that Tari Eason is a better wing defender than all of them (which is our biggest need) and he will probably still be there at 8, so not a bad consolation prize.

Yeah, Eason, Sochan, Brown, Ochbaji, Duren are all pretty strong prospects I like in that 9-13 range. Mark Williams, EJ Liddell, Walker Kessler as later FRP prospects.

 

[SacTownKid]

Eh, Eason and Sochan are trade down targets at this point. Let another team gamble on that. The Kings have a legit chance even as low as 8/9 to get a fit and talent package if they don't overthink this. Even any drop down candidates are likely G/F's that would come right in and help.

 

[ESP47]

Yeah, the lineup we're throwing out is rather bad. The only reason we've won 2 games is a last second tip-in by Jones (which Hali could have prevented by at least pretending to box out) to a completely depleted Pacers team and the Magic blowing an 8 point lead in the last 1:25. The Heat game gave us a pretty clear indication of that.

And the really, the only reason we were close in those games is because Mitchell has looked like a high-level 2-way starter. Barnes is playing way too many minutes but since Fox/Sabonis have been out:

17-2-3 on 5-10 shooting 38 minutes
19-7-5 on 6-14 shooting 40 minutes
11-5-1 on 5-11 shooting 33 minutes


I'm more upset Gentry is putting more unnecessary mileage on a dude we need to stay healthy for next season. Especially when we do have the wing depth to keep him in the 28-30 MPG range with Harkless and Josh Jackson. I get he probably has to play since we have 4 dudes out with injury, but playing him like we're pushing for a playoff run is coaching malpractice.

Play Queta, sit Barnes and use a wider rotation are the three things we need down the stretch here.

This is sort of my point. 17pts on 10 shots and 19pts on 14 shots are both efficient games and more than likely much better than anything Harkless or Jackson could produce. He also made the game winning shot in OT against the Magic.

He's our 3rd best player and he does contribute to wins. He's the best player on the court when we're playing teams like the Magic. If he shoots 1-15 for 2pts, that doesn't mean it was a good decision by the franchise to play him 40 minutes that night. It means they made a bad decision and just so happened to get lucky that he didn't play well.

Rest Barnes and Davion goes for 30 and 10 and the Kings beat the Magic? Can't say anything bad about that but it's pretty annoying to see our current best active player playing a bunch of minutes in meaningless games. Whether he plays well or not does not matter as far as the poor decision making goes.

 

[sactowndog]

If we pick 8:

Chet
Jabari
Paolo
Ivey
Davis
Murray
Mathurin
Griffin

We're guaranteed one of these players. And there's potentially a reasonable chance that a Duren/TyTy or even like a Sochan has a huge rise and potentially lets another guy fall

And we've been locked in the the 7th place lotto odds as a floor for awhile now. So unless we get crazy unlucky with 2 teams behind us leap-frogging, we're going to stay in that top 8.

to my point Davis likely a 6’4” with combine measurement guard is exactly whom I am thinking about. I see Griffin, Murray and Mathurin all going ahead

 

[Tetsujin]

to my point Davis likely a 6’4” with combine measurement guard is exactly whom I am thinking about. I see Griffin, Murray and Mathurin all going ahead

He might measure 6'4" but he'll probably wind up with a 6'7"/6'8" wingspan and shouldn't have much issue dealing with the physicality of NBA wings. He's also really good.

 

[The_Jamal]

to my point Davis likely a 6’4” with combine measurement guard is exactly whom I am thinking about. I see Griffin, Murray and Mathurin all going ahead

I mean, Davis is listed 6'5 everywhere and I think has a solid wingspan just looking at him (don't see it tested anywhere). And why would Davis be bad again? Projects as an excellent rebounding/defensive guard with a chance to be a good/great NBA scorer.

 

[Tetsujin]

Wizards won today so it looks like whoever was worried about us catching them can breath a sigh of relief.

 

[SacTownKid]

I mean, Davis is listed 6'5 everywhere and I think has a solid wingspan just looking at him (don't see it tested anywhere). And why would Davis be bad again? Projects as an excellent rebounding/defensive guard with a chance to be a good/great NBA scorer.

And he plays big. That's where those Josh Hart comps come in. He's rugged. Davis is the only player in that part of that draft that was actually used like a legit go to on a team not really known for it's talent. Do some of those things he did in college in the NBA? Money, money, money.

 

[The_Jamal]

And he plays big. That's where those Josh Hart comps come in. He's rugged. Davis is the only player in that part of that draft that was actually used like a legit go to on a team not really known for it's talent. Do some of those things he did in college in the NBA? Money, money, money.

Yeah. You hate to label it this way, but his scoring arsenal is what a majority of the stars do in the NBA. Mid-range, floaters, post game, creativity finding space. All without the benefit of elite athleticism/size. It's footwork, offensive IQ and just a great understanding of how to score. And I get the shooting, but he also didn't have an ounce of space in college and next to no creation for him to get open shots. I expect that to be significantly easier in the NBA as a 3rd option to Fox/Sabonis.

What's really sold me on him is the defense though. I think he's got a great chance to be a + defender at the NBA level and he worked incredibly hard on that end this year. Fighting through screens, contesting shots. It's not often when these insane USG college stars actually try on defense, but he put in serious work on defense and on the glass.

 

[SacTownKid]

Yeah. You hate to label it this way, but his scoring arsenal is what a majority of the stars do in the NBA. Mid-range, floaters, post game, creativity finding space. All without the benefit of elite athleticism/size. It's footwork, offensive IQ and just a great understanding of how to score. And I get the shooting, but he also didn't have an ounce of space in college and next to no creation for him to get open shots. I expect that to be significantly easier in the NBA as a 3rd option to Fox/Sabonis.

What's really sold me on him is the defense though. I think he's got a great chance to be a + defender at the NBA level and he worked incredibly hard on that end this year. Fighting through screens, contesting shots. It's not often when these insane USG college stars actually try on defense, but he put in serious work on defense and on the glass.

Yep and the other part of it with the Kings, is if the Kings draft someone that can't defend? This could be very, very bad for them. That gives a coach the excuse to kick them out of the rotation. If the Kings keep the pick and let them ride the pine you just killed another lottery pick right out of the gate.

 

[Telemachus]

And he plays big. That's where those Josh Hart comps come in. He's rugged. Davis is the only player in that part of that draft that was actually used like a legit go to on a team not really known for it's talent. Do some of those things he did in college in the NBA? Money, money, money.

Take him off of Wisconsin and they would've struggled to make the NIT Tournament.

 

[The Effort Police]

If we pick 8:

Chet
Jabari
Paolo
Ivey
Davis
Murray
Mathurin
Griffin

We're guaranteed one of these players. And there's potentially a reasonable chance that a Duren/TyTy or even like a Sochan has a huge rise and potentially lets another guy fall

And we've been locked in the the 7th place lotto odds as a floor for awhile now. So unless we get crazy unlucky with 2 teams behind us leap-frogging, we're going to stay in that top 8.

This is true.

However, let's say we're sitting at 8 right and there's one left of the B tier prospects (let's say Davis).

I'd be just as happy with Davis as any of these other guys but the fact of the matter is if we're at 8 we're more likely to reach for TyTy or Duren than at 6 where we'd have our pick between Mathurin, Murray AND Davis, and then those two.

 

[Tetsujin]

This is true.

However, let's say we're sitting at 8 right and there's one left of the B tier prospects (let's say Davis).

I'd be just as happy with Davis as any of these other guys but the fact of the matter is if we're at 8 we're more likely to reach for TyTy or Duren than at 6 where we'd have our pick between Mathurin, Murray AND Davis, and then those two.

Are we though? Vlade probably would have reached but Monte thus far has been pretty good about being patient and just picking the low-hanging fruit in the form of the clear BPA.

 

[Gguod]

The organizational strategy just cant be that we are happy to let 6-7 teams pick before us and get whats left. The strategy should be very simple: the season is lost so lets give ourselves the best possible odds to jump into top 4. Lets be at a position where our most probable outcome isnt 7-9th. One might think these things dont matter much because the draft looks like there could be solid options left at 8th. The fact is that statistically you get better players if you draft higher. Losing couple of spots of pre lottery position worsens the odds a lot to draft a high impact player.

I just cant stomach that this type of stuff is basically ignored by a professional organization by playing Barnes huge minutes in a game that would be better for us if we lose. I can stomach reasonable misevaluations on draft, trades or free agency. To me its a lot harder to tolerate if the process itself and the overall strategy is garbage and automatically puts us in a competitive disadvantage

 

[coolhandluke]

The organizational strategy just cant be that we are happy to let 6-7 teams pick before us and get whats left. The strategy should be very simple: the season is lost so lets give ourselves the best possible odds to jump into top 4. Lets be at a position where our most probable outcome isnt 7-9th. One might think these things dont matter much because the draft looks like there could be solid options left at 8th. The fact is that statistically you get better players if you draft higher. Losing couple of spots of pre lottery position worsens the odds a lot to draft a high impact player.

I just cant stomach that this type of stuff is basically ignored by a professional organization by playing Barnes huge minutes in a game that would be better for us if we lose. I can stomach reasonable misevaluations on draft, trades or free agency. To me its a lot harder to tolerate if the process itself and the overall strategy is garbage and automatically puts us in a competitive disadvantage

I think we are stuck at #7. I just don't see us outtanking the teams in front of us. The time to tank has always been yesterday for the Kings. They did the same stupid thing last year when the draft had multiple franchise level talent. Some things never change.

 

[Tetsujin]

The organizational strategy just cant be that we are happy to let 6-7 teams pick before us and get whats left. The strategy should be very simple: the season is lost so lets give ourselves the best possible odds to jump into top 4. Lets be at a position where our most probable outcome isnt 7-9th. One might think these things dont matter much because the draft looks like there could be solid options left at 8th. The fact is that statistically you get better players if you draft higher. Losing couple of spots of pre lottery position worsens the odds a lot to draft a high impact player.

I just cant stomach that this type of stuff is basically ignored by a professional organization by playing Barnes huge minutes in a game that would be better for us if we lose. I can stomach reasonable misevaluations on draft, trades or free agency. To me its a lot harder to tolerate if the process itself and the overall strategy is garbage and automatically puts us in a competitive disadvantage

To be fair, at this point, playing Barnes huge minutes is probably our best chance to lose right now. Dude was frontrimming everything last night and refusing to box out or play defense.

 

[sactowndog]

I mean, Davis is listed 6'5 everywhere and I think has a solid wingspan just looking at him (don't see it tested anywhere). And why would Davis be bad again? Projects as an excellent rebounding/defensive guard with a chance to be a good/great NBA scorer.

because we need desperately players that have 7 ft wingspans and can guard forwards. Despite Monte’s Vlade like claims, Davion isn’t guarding small forwards.

 

[The_Jamal]

This is true.

However, let's say we're sitting at 8 right and there's one left of the B tier prospects (let's say Davis).

I'd be just as happy with Davis as any of these other guys but the fact of the matter is if we're at 8 we're more likely to reach for TyTy or Duren than at 6 where we'd have our pick between Mathurin, Murray AND Davis, and then those two.

Yeah, the hope is Monte is smart enough to avoid those pitfalls. I think he knows he's got the shot-clock on himself to put a winner out there in 1 and a half seasons and will make a slight adjustment to his BPA if it's a guy who can reasonably plug in with Fox/Sabonis right away.

Not that I think need drafting is ever really good, but it makes far more sense for the Kings to go closer to that route this year with a FAR more established core than where they were last year.