[Game] Kings @ Raptors, 12/13/2021 4pm Pacific 7pm Eastern

[mac]

Eh, I still take Fox over a minimum 4 of those guys .. and pretty easily.

Well now sure because a few of them are on the decline. But would you take Fox over early prime Horford/prime Draymond?

Anyway, my point is that the Kings are likely to be overpaying position-for-position relative to other teams (because we typically think we can't afford to lose talent), so it should be no surprise that Buddy or anyone else's contract is on the overvalued side of things.

 

[Tetsujin]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1470593778486448130

 

[mac]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1470593778486448130

To paraphrase, "We ain't lazy, we just bad"

 

[mac]

And to add on, I think that's what loads of fans are recognizing now. The question isn't whether or not the team is bad - it's why they're bad. Why do other teams all look like they know what they're doing, whether it's star players or random bench dudes you've never heard of?

Then you look at our team - the only guy you'd immediately say isn't sharp is Buddy, but it's not as if we're only going down big with him in the game. The starters have been digging us in huge holes.

If anything, saying Fox and Hali etc. are just not playing hard is giving them the benefit of the doubt. We know Buddy plays hard on defense, he just isn't very good most of the time. But what's the reason for Fox and Hali losing their man and getting blown by time and time again? So we chalk it up to effort instead. But hey, if Fox would rather flat out admit that they're just bad, that's an even clearer indication that Monte needs to make moves.

 

[Kingster]

The Kings are almost there at the #1 slot of allowing the most points in the NBA. Come on Kings. You can do it!
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/opponent-points-per-game

 

[miltonap]

And to add on, I think that's what loads of fans are recognizing now. The question isn't whether or not the team is bad - it's why they're bad. Why do other teams all look like they know what they're doing, whether it's star players or random bench dudes you've never heard of?

Then you look at our team - the only guy you'd immediately say isn't sharp is Buddy, but it's not as if we're only going down big with him in the game. The starters have been digging us in huge holes.

If anything, saying Fox and Hali etc. are just not playing hard is giving them the benefit of the doubt. We know Buddy plays hard on defense, he just isn't very good most of the time. But what's the reason for Fox and Hali losing their man and getting blown by time and time again? So we chalk it up to effort instead. But hey, if Fox would rather flat out admit that they're just bad, that's an even clearer indication that Monte needs to make moves.

Then the question is, why are they bad ? Why are they not sharp ? Is it coaching ? Discipline ? What's the deal

I think he's right, the way Toronto plays is pretty effortless, sharp as he says. And watching the Kings it's just not quite as sharp, why is it ? (And I think they've looked better under Gentry btw.)

 

[SLAB]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1470593156945043459

This will fix everything!

 

[kb02]

To paraphrase, "We ain't lazy, we just bad"

I’m sure Fox and his teammates think they’re working hard. But Grant Hill captures the situation best when he said the following recently:


Why ‘necessary sacrifice’ separates the greats from everybody else

[Mindset] certainly plays a huge role, but I think it’s your willingness to make the necessary sacrifices.

Are you going to come in and put in the work? Are you going to put in your 10,000 hours? A lot of my friends who I think loved the game, and had the same goals in mind, at times maybe didn’t put in the necessary amount of work.

When you love something and you’re passionate about something, that opens the gates. There are some people who just want to be on the team, play and have fun. Then, there are those who want to be the best ever.

There’s something there that drives you, pulls you along and doesn’t allow you to accept anything less than winning and being successful

 

[kb02]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1470593156945043459

This will fix everything!

Why have a players only meeting now when most of them won’t be here in a few weeks?

 

[SLAB]

Why have a players only meeting now when most of them won’t be here in a few weeks?

They’ll all be here. And probably someone else like a major difference maker like Kent Bazemore.

 

[kb02]

They’ll all be here. And probably someone else like a major difference maker like Kent Bazemore.

Oh, that would just be swell, I predict paper bags at Kings games soon if it happened. Will definitely save me a few k on Kings tickets this year. No way I go to any future games unless there are major changes,

 

[Kingster]

And to add on, I think that's what loads of fans are recognizing now. The question isn't whether or not the team is bad - it's why they're bad. Why do other teams all look like they know what they're doing, whether it's star players or random bench dudes you've never heard of?

Then you look at our team - the only guy you'd immediately say isn't sharp is Buddy, but it's not as if we're only going down big with him in the game. The starters have been digging us in huge holes.

If anything, saying Fox and Hali etc. are just not playing hard is giving them the benefit of the doubt. We know Buddy plays hard on defense, he just isn't very good most of the time. But what's the reason for Fox and Hali losing their man and getting blown by time and time again? So we chalk it up to effort instead. But hey, if Fox would rather flat out admit that they're just bad, that's an even clearer indication that Monte needs to make moves.

First, Buddy plays hard on defense in maybe one in five games, and I think I'm being very generous with that ratio.

The Kings are bad because they are not putting out the effort. These last two games were "quitter" games. They were lost before the opening tip. The question is: Why are they not putting out the effort on defense that is required for them not to be bad? I still say that in order to diagnose this team you have to look at their #1 talent - Fox. If your #1 talent is doggin' it, it's a tough sell to get the rest of your team to sacrifice in sweat and bruises and effort so that #1 can get his points and laze away on defense. Sure, it can happen in some rare situations like we've seen with Harden in Houston, but it's a rare bird that requires special circumstances to be successful. Therefore, the overriding question for me is: Why is Fox doggin' it? The easiest and simplest answer: He just doesn't want to play hard on defense. It's not in him to put out that kind of effort to win. He would rather put in his time, get his, and let the chips fall where they may. Fox sees himself more as the observer, not a participant in this debacle. It's not his fault the team is so bad. It's everyone else. He has gone to his "corner" and is happy with the separation. Such is the way of one who is looking for the easy way out.

 

[Dongoodboy]

They’ll all be here. And probably someone else like a major difference maker like Kent Bazemore.

Don’t forget our dearest friend cash consideration

 

[fansinceday1]

Does anyone think that maybe the kings organization is just broke, and can’t do what most fans want them to do? COVID has simply been the back breaker financial wise.

I’m just spit ballin………..

 

[mac]

First, Buddy plays hard on defense in maybe one in five games, and I think I'm being very generous with that ratio.

The Kings are bad because they are not putting out the effort. These last two games were "quitter" games. They were lost before the opening tip. The question is: Why are they not putting out the effort on defense that is required for them not to be bad? I still say that in order to diagnose this team you have to look at their #1 talent - Fox. If your #1 talent is doggin' it, it's a tough sell to get the rest of your team to sacrifice in sweat and bruises and effort so that #1 can get his points and laze away on defense. Sure, it can happen in some rare situations like we've seen with Harden in Houston, but it's a rare bird that requires special circumstances to be successful. Therefore, the overriding question for me is: Why is Fox doggin' it? The easiest and simplest answer: He just doesn't want to play hard on defense. It's not in him to put out that kind of effort to win. He would rather put in his time, get his, and let the chips fall where they may. Fox sees himself more as the observer, not a participant in this debacle. It's not his fault the team is so bad. It's everyone else. He has gone to his "corner" and is happy with the separation. Such is the way of one who is looking for the easy way out.

Tell that to Fox, not me. He says they're playing hard.

 

[kb02]

Does anyone think that maybe the kings organization is just broke, and can’t do what most fans want them to do? COVID has simply been the back breaker financial wise.

I’m just spit ballin………..

I don’t think it’s financial at this point. I remember reading an article that said the Kings worked out financing/payment plans with the city and their lenders. Too lazy to go look for it and knowing people with com and industrial props, that seems to be par for the course due to the pandemic.

Plus Vivek has done well with his Spac, the Kings brought on two private equity partners, and the NBA is backstopping loans for its teams.

 

[mac]

Then the question is, why are they bad ? Why are they not sharp ? Is it coaching ? Discipline ? What's the deal

I think he's right, the way Toronto plays is pretty effortless, sharp as he says. And watching the Kings it's just not quite as sharp, why is it ? (And I think they've looked better under Gentry btw.)

Yup, like I said in my second sentence

And if the answer isn't effort, and it isn't coaching, then it leaves only the sad answer that they just aren't very good. G-leaguers masquerading as NBA players, if you will.

To your point, the question isn't why Buddy (who everyone by now agrees ain't the sharpest tool) doesn't pass and make a quick cut, or why Buddy doesn't go and set some screens to get some more movement. The question is why EVEYRONE doesn't do that, and if it's not scheme, and it's not effort, then it's just incompetence, or at very best poor fit.

Fact is that none of our guys are really good off-ball players, and perhaps that's the biggest issue. Buddy looked like he was going to be one, then we handed him that contract and now we've turned him into poor man's Jamal Crawford, minus all handles. Everyone else looks best when the ball is in their hands and they're knocking down shots, whether it's Bagley or Fox or Mitchell or Hali or Barnes or TD.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Does anyone think that maybe the kings organization is just broke, and can’t do what most fans want them to do? COVID has simply been the back breaker financial wise.

I’m just spit ballin………..

No. That is a bad excuse. This has been going on for a lot longer than since the end of March 2020

 

[ESP47]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1470593778486448130

Probably the best quote ever from Fox.

This is coaching and IQ.

 

[fansinceday1]

No. That is a bad excuse. This has been going on for a lot longer than since the end of March 2020

I’m just trying to be objective. My gut tells me that Vivek just sucks as an owner. He makes ALL the decisions because he thinks he’s a Jerry Jones type of owner when in reality he’s more of a Daniel Snyder.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Yup, like I said in my second sentence

And if the answer isn't effort, and it isn't coaching, then it leaves only the sad answer that they just aren't very good. G-leaguers masquerading as NBA players, if you will.

To your point, the question isn't why Buddy (who everyone by now agrees ain't the sharpest tool) doesn't pass and make a quick cut, or why Buddy doesn't go and set some screens to get some more movement. The question is why EVEYRONE doesn't do that, and if it's not scheme, and it's not effort, then it's just incompetence, or at very best poor fit.

Fact is that none of our guys are really good off-ball players, and perhaps that's the biggest issue. Buddy looked like he was going to be one, then we handed him that contract and now we've turned him into poor man's Jamal Crawford, minus all handles. Everyone else looks best when the ball is in their hands and they're knocking down shots, whether it's Bagley or Fox or Mitchell or Hali or Barnes or TD.

Buddy is a "lame duck" player on the Kings, because he knows the team almost traded him and is still shopping him. Therefore he has no heart and soul invested in this organization.

Very few players are the same, once they know it's only a matter of time, before they are moved on. Call it mental weakness, call it a distraction, whatever,...but it's a thing.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I’m just trying to be objective. My gut tells me that Vivek just sucks as an owner. He makes ALL the decisions because he thinks he’s a Jerry Jones type of owner when in reality he’s more of a Daniel Snyder.

He came into this with very little idea what he was doing. Imagine taking over a high level organization with practically zero experience in that field.

Some people have a natural feel for it and can learn quickly. He is not that. He's a non sports guy nerd, trying to run this thing. It's non-sense. One of, if not the worst owner in pro sports

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Probably the best quote ever from Fox.

This is coaching and IQ.

Being sharp and running high level plays, requires a certain amount of culture to develop that. It's what this organization has lacked since they lost Rick Adelman and had him working on the same page with Geoff Petrie

 

[kingdivac]

Does anyone think that maybe the kings organization is just broke, and can’t do what most fans want them to do? COVID has simply been the back breaker financial wise.

I’m just spit ballin………..

NBA ownership can be heavily financed. An ownership might have like a 30% actual stake compared to the supposed team/brand "value" or "worth". They only need to service a % of the debt.

 

[kingdivac]

At Costco I saw 2 lower level seats as "discounted" $79.99 - f that..... here's your bridge to nowhere.... anyway, I can get HBOMAX for a year on a CC promo more cheaply than that....for value comparison. The organization is incompetent.

 

[Turgenev]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1470593778486448130

Saying that you can’t get into the NBA without working hard does not have the same meaning as ‘we work hard enough during each game to win’. And if he thinks it does then that is a red flag. Same with the comments about ‘complicated stuff’. Stating that NBA schemes employ relatively simple concepts does not mean that the Kings one or two perimeter passes then some one on one or a deep shot is good enough for 500 basketball. Yeah – the team could have more talent and better balance and at times less injured and they could also be sharper (although they would need a plan to be sharp at first). But the players can't just wash their hands of it all. It's not going to get better that way.

 

[hrdboild]

Yup, like I said in my second sentence

And if the answer isn't effort, and it isn't coaching, then it leaves only the sad answer that they just aren't very good. G-leaguers masquerading as NBA players, if you will.

To your point, the question isn't why Buddy (who everyone by now agrees ain't the sharpest tool) doesn't pass and make a quick cut, or why Buddy doesn't go and set some screens to get some more movement. The question is why EVEYRONE doesn't do that, and if it's not scheme, and it's not effort, then it's just incompetence, or at very best poor fit.

Fact is that none of our guys are really good off-ball players, and perhaps that's the biggest issue. Buddy looked like he was going to be one, then we handed him that contract and now we've turned him into poor man's Jamal Crawford, minus all handles. Everyone else looks best when the ball is in their hands and they're knocking down shots, whether it's Bagley or Fox or Mitchell or Hali or Barnes or TD.

Harrison Barnes was a starter on a team that won 73 games. He started out the season on a tear and then he got hurt. He just doesn't look like he's 100% right now, but he's certainly not a G-Leaguer. Haliburton looks like he's still figuring out when to be aggressive and when to look to pass and Toronto plays an aggressive brand of defense which punishes indecisiveness. Banton, Watanabe, and Barnes were eating us alive out there. When we went small they shot over us. When we went big they ran around us. Bagley still makes a lot of mistakes but if you add up all his games played, he's basically mid-way through his second NBA season in actual playing time. He's playing with effort out there at least. Fox was making plays on both ends of the court. Can anyone explain to me why a player who was 15th in the league in PPG last season and 9th in the league in APG is suddenly being asked to play off the ball so much? Whose idea was it to give him a max extension and then treat him like a spot-up shooter the very moment that extension kicks in?

When Fox is talking about being sharp I feel like there's only so much you can expect out of a lineup that is constantly being tinkered with. We started Alex Len and Chimezie Metu in the frontcourt in this game. Have they have been in the starting lineup together before? I understand that we're a little bit hamstrung here with Holmes hurt and Barnes not 100% either but one of the oddest occurrences to me about this season is why both Walton and Gentry feel the need to tinker with the starting lineup constantly. What's so hard about giving every player a role and sticking to it? Let the team develop chemistry by playing the same units on the floor together every night.

In any case, we weren't the ones who got embarrassed out there, the players were. I hope they're pissed and I hope they take this loss personally

 

[kingdivac]

Yup, like I said in my second sentence

And if the answer isn't effort, and it isn't coaching, then it leaves only the sad answer that they just aren't very good. G-leaguers masquerading as NBA players, if you will.

To your point, the question isn't why Buddy (who everyone by now agrees ain't the sharpest tool) doesn't pass and make a quick cut, or why Buddy doesn't go and set some screens to get some more movement. The question is why EVEYRONE doesn't do that, and if it's not scheme, and it's not effort, then it's just incompetence, or at very best poor fit.

Fact is that none of our guys are really good off-ball players, and perhaps that's the biggest issue. Buddy looked like he was going to be one, then we handed him that contract and now we've turned him into poor man's Jamal Crawford, minus all handles. Everyone else looks best when the ball is in their hands and they're knocking down shots, whether it's Bagley or Fox or Mitchell or Hali or Barnes or TD.

"Team Beta-Wolves" !

 

[captain bill]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1470593778486448130

I don’t understand what he’s getting at. Everyone plays hard but we’re not playing sharp? Toronto running everything to a T isn’t about playing hard but playing sharp? The only way this makes sense is if the Kings aren’t *working* hard enough away from the court. It’s the hard work away from the court that gets your play sharp isn’t it? Just showing up on game day and playing hard doesn’t really matter if you’re not ready?

in any case this really reads like a long list of excuses and pessimism. Coaching doesn’t matter, playing hard doesn’t matter, that sets were running don’t matter. It’s probably too easy to read into text like that but sounds a lot like nothing really matters to him

 

[mac]

Harrison Barnes was a starter on a team that won 73 games. He started out the season on a tear and then he got hurt. He just doesn't look like he's 100% right now, but he's certainly not a G-Leaguer. Haliburton looks like he's still figuring out when to be aggressive and when to look to pass and Toronto plays an aggressive brand of defense which punishes indecisiveness. Banton, Watanabe, and Barnes were eating us alive out there. When we went small they shot over us. When we went big they ran around us. Bagley still makes a lot of mistakes but if you add up all his games played, he's basically mid-way through his second NBA season in actual playing time. He's playing with effort out there at least. Fox was making plays on both ends of the court. Can anyone explain to me why a player who was 15th in the league in PPG last season and 9th in the league in APG is suddenly being asked to play off the ball so much? Whose idea was it to give him a max extension and then treat him like a spot-up shooter the very moment that extension kicks in?

When Fox is talking about being sharp I feel like there's only so much you can expect out of a lineup that is constantly being tinkered with. We started Alex Len and Chimezie Metu in the frontcourt in this game. Have they have been in the starting lineup together before? I understand that we're a little bit hamstrung here with Holmes hurt and Barnes not 100% either but one of the oddest occurrences to me about this season is why both Walton and Gentry feel the need to tinker with the starting lineup constantly. What's so hard about giving every player a role and sticking to it? Let the team develop chemistry by playing the same units on the floor together every night.

In any case, we weren't the ones who got embarrassed out there, the players were. I hope they're pissed and I hope they take this loss personally

In other words you are blaming coaching? Or GM? Again, I don't know why you sound as if you're arguing with me when you are in fact arguing with the team. The team is the one that said it's not the coaching. Fox is the one who said it's not effort. Tyrese says there is no chemistry issue with him and Fox. I'm simply saying that if you take that as the base assumptions, it leaves possible only one conclusion that the players are bad. If you disagree, take it up with the team.