Predict the Starting Lineup / Rotation

[jcassio]

Roster:
Fox/Mitchell
Hali/Hield/Davis
Barnes/Harkless/King
Metu/Bagley
Holmes/Len/Thompson/Jones

Stockton/End of bench:
Ramsey
Woodard
Terry
Queta

I really wish we could have got something of value for Hield and Bagley before now. But even being flawed, they're too good to not play. Hopefully some good play on their part will make them appear more valuable to some other team.
Barnes is not a good enough rebounder and does not block or alter shots to justify playing the 4 on a playoff team - unless the 5 was named Rudy Gobert.

If we're going to be stuck with Hield all year, I'd move Davis ahead of him in the rotation. I'd also pull Buddy whenever he missed 3 shots in a row. He has a terrible habit of running off 7-9 missed shots in a row.

We've got way too many centers on this team. Balanced roster, eh Monte? Yeah, no.

 

[EIM86]

It has nothing to do with what he wants to or doesn’t want to do. Every player wants to be a 40% plus catch and shoot player.

Fit is about putting together combinations whose strengths match each other. Fox and Mitchell have much the same strengths in terms of dribble penetration and pull up 10-15 footers. Both are better playing offensively with players who can catch and shoot well and create space. Hali and Hield both created space for Fox. Swag and King created space for Mitchell. Neither likely will create space for each other.

Fox shot 40% from 3 in catch & shoot opportunities last season. And if memory serves, Mitchell shot over 40% from 3 in catch & shoot opportunities at Baylor last season. Where they struggled was off the dribble.

looks like he played off ball plenty and Dame/Mcollum made it work I don’t see why we couldn’t for at the worst short spurts where Off-Night slows down the best guard of the opposing to start and then we adjust from there (can Walton do that? Prolly not lol)

 

[rosa u podne]

39.3. 7th best on the team versus Hali at 43.8 or Davis at 43.2. Buddy only shot 39.6 but at 6.3 attempts per game versus 1.5. Hali had 2.8 attempts and Davis 3.5.

of starting guards who played at least 40 games Fox has one of the lowest C&S made 3 point field goals in the league

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/catch-shoot/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular Season&sort=CATCH_SHOOT_FG3M&dir=1&PlayerPosition=G&StarterBench=Starters&CF=GP*G*40&PerMode=Totals

Mitchell remains to be seen but by historical college FT% has a much higher predictive value of 3 point success than college 3 point percentage.

39.3 % is still good enough to not be ignored on defense. They have to guard him. Fox and Mitchel would also put a hell of pressure on defense and generate easy transition opportunities.

 

[Telemachus]

39.3. 7th best on the team versus Hali at 43.8 or Davis at 43.2. Buddy only shot 39.6 but at 6.3 attempts per game versus 1.5. Hali had 2.8 attempts and Davis 3.5.

of starting guards who played at least 40 games Fox has one of the lowest C&S made 3 point field goals in the league

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/catch-shoot/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular Season&sort=CATCH_SHOOT_FG3M&dir=1&PlayerPosition=G&StarterBench=Starters&CF=GP*G*40&PerMode=Totals

Mitchell remains to be seen but by historical college FT% has a much higher predictive value of 3 point success than college 3 point percentage.

Don't change the goalposts. You stated that Fox was a bad C&S player. 39.3% is a good C&S player from 3. The fact he only took 1.5 shots a game in this situation is beside the point. There was only one player last season that could consistently set him up. He will have more this year. That being said, he still needs to improve his shooting off the dribble.

 

[Woot!]

I might have to go with Fox/Hali/Harkless/Barnes/Holmes

In theory, that's what you want in today's NBA. Two 6'8"/6'9" combo forwards who can switch and have perimeter skills. Albeit with the caveat the Harkless isn't really talented or good enough. But he started for Portland (and L.A.) no less than a few seasons ago.

But Fox/Hali/Buddy/Barnes/Holmes is the most talented group, but I don't know how long we can keep up the charade that Buddy can be a full-time SF.
.

Rebounding, tho.

Oh dear.

 

[Woot!]

Don't change the goalposts. You stated that Fox was a bad C&S player. 39.3% is a good C&S player from 3. The fact he only took 1.5 shots a game in this situation is beside the point. There was only one player last season that could consistently set him up. He will have more this year. That being said, he still needs to improve his shooting off the dribble.

Yeah, 39.3% is plenty good enough to make Fox playing off-ball more work.

And, yes, he needs to improve his off-dribble shooting. I'd also be fine with him taking fewer. Truth is that Fox will have plenty of shooters around him - he, Buddy, Tyrese, and HB will probably share the floor eat the same time a fair bit - and can do better setting them up.

 

[sactowndog]

Don't change the goalposts. You stated that Fox was a bad C&S player. 39.3% is a good C&S player from 3. The fact he only took 1.5 shots a game in this situation is beside the point. There was only one player last season that could consistently set him up. He will have more this year. That being said, he still needs to improve his shooting off the dribble.

comparatively 39.3 on very low volume is at best meh. It means most you shots are with lots of space. We shall see how it works out since Monte has not fixed the line-up but I don’t see it fitting well.

I agree with your point that Fox wasn’t set up much but regardless I would much rather have Hali, Buddy, Richardson or Ramsey on the other end of those kick-outs than either Fox or Mitchell. Comparing both Fox and Mitchell to Dame and CJ as shooters isn’t even worth responding to.

 

[sactowndog]

Yeah, 39.3% is plenty good enough to make Fox playing off-ball more work.

And, yes, he needs to improve his off-dribble shooting. I'd also be fine with him taking fewer. Truth is that Fox will have plenty of shooters around him - he, Buddy, Tyrese, and HB will probably share the floor eat the same time a fair bit - and can do better setting them up.

i agree Buddy, Tyrese, HB and even Richardson are all better catch and shoot shooters. Heck I suspect even Ramsey and King are better. Fox and Mitchell are a very close match in player archetype. It’s why I would trade Fox for Simmons straight up.

The fans are going to clammer for Fox and Mitchell to play together but I see little reason to have that combo on the floor together unless you want to close out a game defensively against say Dame and CJ.

 

[miltonap]

3 locks IMO are

Fox
Barnes
Holmes

I think we can all agree here.

I think it won't take long for Mitchell to enter the starting lineup and the reason being is his defense.

It serves more to have him guard the opposing team's best guard. And perhaps let him play off ball on offense.

Buddy I feel will end up on the bench which I think is his best role.

So in the end I could see

Fox
Mitchell
Hali
Barnes
Holmes

With a very aggressive defensive scheme

Stagger

Either Fox Mitchell Hali at PG for a little

And

TD
Buddy
Harkless

And

Len/TT/Metu depending on the game situation

Off the bench.

 

[Woot!]

3 locks IMO are

Fox
Barnes
Holmes

I think we can all agree here.

I think it won't take long for Mitchell to enter the starting lineup and the reason being is his defense.

It serves more to have him guard the opposing team's best guard. And perhaps let him play off ball on offense.

Buddy I feel will end up on the bench which I think is his best role.

So in the end I could see

Fox
Mitchell
Hali
Barnes
Holmes

With a very aggressive defensive scheme

Stagger

Either Fox Mitchell Hali at PG for a little

And

TD
Buddy
Harkless

And

Len/TT/Metu depending on the game situation

Off the bench.

I can't see Davion starting over Hali. Substantive reasons in favor of Hali aside, that would be be pretty disrespectful.

But mostly I don't think it matters much who starts. Kings are gonna be one of those rare teams where the #s 6-10 guys might be as tough as the starters. That's their relative advantage against other teams - to play 10-deep, if not more, and play HARD, hard-nosed basketball. I'd much rather see Fox play 30 tough minutes on both ends than 40 while coasting on defense.

 

[SacTownKid]

mitchell is a team player, he would gladly play off-ball and learn how to if he doesn’t know how. He just wants to win

Exactly. And Mitchell is kind of like a combo G/small SG anyway, they should be able to work. The question is purely size and the totality of the guard glut, not any of the combo's necessarily..

 

[miltonap]

I can't see Davion starting over Hali. Substantive reasons in favor of Hali aside, that would be be pretty disrespectful.

But mostly I don't think it matters much who starts. Kings are gonna be one of those rare teams where the #s 6-10 guys might be as tough as the starters. That's their relative advantage against other teams - to play 10-deep, if not more, and play HARD, hard-nosed basketball. I'd much rather see Fox play 30 tough minutes on both ends than 40 while coasting on defense.

I had both of them starting. The one I forgot was Bagley. I guess he could be thrown into the TT/Len/Metu mix

 

[Woot!]

I had both of them starting. The one I forgot was Bagley. I guess he could be thrown into the TT/Len/Metu mix

Whoops. Sorry about that.

Then the recurring problem's gonna be that a lot of our top (likely) rotation guys just don't rebound very well for the position they play, which helps explain the team's weakness on the boards last year. Fox, Davion, Hali, and HB will account for most of the minutes and none are even average rebounders. Your 5th starter, Holmes, is no better than average for a 5.

But there're just no wart-free Kings lineups, are there?

 

[sactowndog]

Exactly. And Mitchell is kind of like a combo G/small SG anyway, they should be able to work. The question is purely size and the totality of the guard glut, not any of the combo's necessarily..

Exactly huh?

I have heard of being a team guy so you pass.
I have heard of being a team guy so you play defense.

I have never heard of I’m a team guy so I’m going to make is 3 pointer whereas if I were selfish I would miss it. Explain again how this works?

 

[miltonap]

Whoops. Sorry about that.

Then the recurring problem's gonna be that a lot of our top (likely) rotation guys just don't rebound very well for the position they play, which helps explain the team's weakness on the boards last year. Fox, Davion, Hali, and HB will account for most of the minutes and none are even average rebounders. Your 5th starter, Holmes, is no better than average for a 5.

But there're just no wart-free Kings lineups, are there?

Yea it's tough, let's see what the coaching staff comes up with.

 

[SacTownKid]

Exactly huh?

I have heard of being a team guy so you pass.
I have heard of being a team guy so you play defense.

I have never heard of I’m a team guy so I’m going to make is 3 pointer whereas if I were selfish I would miss it. Explain again how this works?

I'm saying he naturally plays more like a SG as a mentality. I think a bigger issue would be having someone else looking to pound the ball next to Fox. Will it work? Who knows, but hopefully they actually try and see this time unlike most of the other wonky situations of past.

 

[sactowndog]

I'm saying he naturally plays more like a SG as a mentality. I think a bigger issue would be having someone else looking to pound the ball next to Fox. Will it work? Who knows, but hopefully they actually try and see this time unlike most of the other wonky situations of past.

Well I would if anything flip your reasoning.

I do think Fox tends to play more like a shooting guard (looking to score first) than either Hali or Mitchell. But I think Hali fits well offensively next to Fox because he shoots the ball well. If Mitchell were a demonstrated good shooter he would not have fallen to 9th. It was those shooting concerns along with his length that caused him to fall.

Now if you played Mitchell next to Hali and traded Fox for Simmons you might have something.

 

[SacTownKid]

Well I would if anything flip your reasoning.

I do think Fox tends to play more like a shooting guard (looking to score first) than either Hali or Mitchell. But I think Hali fits well offensively next to Fox because he shoots the ball well. If Mitchell were a demonstrated good shooter he would not have fallen to 9th. It was those shooting concerns along with his length that caused him to fall.

Now if you played Mitchell next to Hali and traded Fox for Simmons you might have something.

Yeah a terrible GM for sure, haha.

 

[sactowndog]

Yeah a terrible GM for sure, haha.

perhaps but Simmons fills a lot of holes for us.

 

[Woot!]

Fox, Davion, Bags, Harkless, Len, Thompson - that's a lot of guys who'll get minutes and can't be counted to hit free throws.

 

[EIM86]

Starting Lineup
Fox
Mitchell
Barnes
Bagley
Holmes

Mitchell starts but for short minutes to set the tone and slow down the best guard. From there we make adjustments accordingly.

 

[Jkbiker]

Fox, Buddy, Barnes,Bagley, Holmes Start
Gotta Start 3B’s until two get traded
Mitchell,Hali,Harkless,TT,Len
There isnt a Bench in the nba that can outscore these 5 bench players

After the buddy,Bagley,picks for Simmons:

Fox,Hali,Simmons,Barnes,Holmes Start
Mitchell,TD,Harkless,TT,Len Bench

 

[mac]

I think it'd be worth trying to play Buddy more alongside either Davion (for defense) or Hali (for playmaking) and also with Len or TT (good screen setters). Guess that means the bench for him.

 

[kb02]

Starting: Fox, Hali, Barnes, Bagley, Holmes.
First off the bench: Mitchell, Buddy, Davis.
Situational depending on need: Harkless, Len, Thompson, Metu.

Thoughts: the starting line up has three starting caliber players and two (Bagley and Holmes), who should be bench bigs. The bench has two gunners, Mitchell, and a whole lotta defense.

Unless Fox and Hali jump levels or Mitchell plays at an all star level from day one, I predict another year of flirting with a playoff spot and ultimately missing the playoffs. The talent just isn’t there.

 

[midtowner]

Starting: Fox, Hali, Barnes, Bagley, Holmes.
First off the bench: Mitchell, Buddy, Davis.
Situational depending on need: Harkless, Len, Thompson, Metu.

Thoughts: the starting line up has three starting caliber players and two (Bagley and Holmes), who should be bench bigs. The bench has two gunners, Mitchell, and a whole lotta defense.

Unless Fox and Hali jump levels or Mitchell plays at an all star level from day one, I predict another year of flirting with a playoff spot and ultimately missing the playoffs. The talent just isn’t there.

I have the same lineup/rotation - except TT as one of the first off the bench. I think he is going to be in with Buddy a ton to set screens. I also think they are going to try to get more rest for Barnes - so Harkless sees regular run as well. I have Metu and Len as the situational bigs - depending on how big the center is that we have to guard.

 

[ockingsfan]

To start the season, it will probably be:

PF Bagley
SF Barnes
C Holmes
SG Buddy
PG Fox

6th Man:
Haliburton

Bench:
Mitchell
Harkless
TT
Davis
Len
Metu

By Mid season (end of January):

PF Bagley
SF Barnes
C Holmes
SG Mitchell
PG Fox

6th Man:
Hield

Bench:
Hali
Harkless
TT
Davis
Len
Metu

 

[sactowndog]

To start the season, it will probably be:

PF Bagley
SF Barnes
C Holmes
SG Buddy
PG Fox

6th Man:
Haliburton

Bench:
Mitchell
Harkless
TT
Davis
Len
Metu

By Mid season (end of January):

PF Bagley
SF Barnes
C Holmes
SG Mitchell
PG Fox

6th Man:
Hield

Bench:
Hali
Harkless
TT
Davis
Len
Metu

Man I am guessing absent change that line up will see a lot of sagging into the paint and daring the Kings to shoot.

 

[kb02]

Man I am guessing absent change that line up will see a lot of sagging into the paint and daring the Kings to shoot.

If that's the starting line up, teams will be sagging for sure. Especially to counter act Holmes push shot. Holmes really needs to surprise everyone by bombing 3 to 4 threes per game. And making a few bounce passes as well.

 

[Entity]

fox/mitchell/hali
buddy/hali/davis
hali/barnes/harkless
barnes/bagley/metu
homes/TT/Len

 

[EIM86]

Man I am guessing absent change that line up will see a lot of sagging into the paint and daring the Kings to shoot.

that really depends on how Mitchell does from
The 3. We know Bagley can hit the corner 3 at a solid clip.