Trade Suggestion: Fox for Simmons + #28
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Yeah, the Spurs got super lucky when Kawhi fell to them but since then they’ve done a good job of turning mid/late 1sts into moderately adequate role players. Good for them for turning Derrick White and Dejounte Murray into solid 3rd/4th option guards but aside from Keldon Johnson and Devin Vassel, they’ve pretty much got no young talent of worth (and both those dudes are arguably more valuable because of the position they play rather than their untapped potential)
I do this no question. Fox-Hali-Barnes-Simmons-Whoever is a playoff team and actually has a chance to be a good defensively. Kings just aren't going to be in a position to get a Simmons level talent as long as Fox is on the team and likely with Hali continuing to grow.
At the very least, Fox-Hali-Simmons is a playoff core that you can actually look to build a team around. The Kings issue the last 15 years is they've never actually gotten to that point and they overspend for role players without having the foundational pieces in place.
At the very least, Fox-Hali-Simmons is a playoff core that you can actually look to build a team around. The Kings issue the last 15 years is they've never actually gotten to that point and they overspend for role players without having the foundational pieces in place.
If rumors think Knicks are willing to trade Toppin, Knox and a 2021 first rounder
Could Cavs, Knicks be working on deal for Collin Sexton? (msn.com)
Then Why not Bagley, and Two 1st rd picks for Sexton?
Someone tell Monte he needs go get a third team involved
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Probably not. But then again, what deal is going to be out there that the Sixers likes better? I remain absolutely fascinated by this particular NBA storyline. It's so rare that a 25-year-old all-star ends up on the trade block for no reason other than the fact that he doesn't fit well with the superstar above him in the team's pecking order. There's no reported locker room toxicity in Philly. There's no trade demand here. There's really no sense of urgency beyond the Sixers' self-imposed title aspirations. They're a really good team with Ben Simmons. But the conventional wisdom is that they will never be good enough to win a championship while trying to fit the square peg of Ben Simmons into the round hole created by Joel Embiid's MVP-level presence on the roster.
That said, what kind of "stars" could Daryl Morey reasonably hope to acquire in return for Simmons, particularly given that there aren't really any top tier players who are disgruntled and actively seeking a change of scenery? He's obviously not prying away upper echelon talents like Luka, Giannis, Steph, Durant, Harden, Kawhi, Booker, Tatum, etc. So unless Dame demands a trade from Portland, Morey's probably going to have to sift through veteran talent in the tier(s) below these perennial all-stars in any deal for Simmons.
What about a guy like DeMar DeRozan, who he'd have to engineer a sign-and-trade to acquire? Or Mike Conley, who's age and injury history are obvious red flags? Or Zach Lavine, who only has one year left on his current contract, and thus potentially sets the Sixers up to be Jimmy Butler'd again next offseason? Or something like CJ McCollum and a 1st? Maybe Pascal Siakam and a 1st? They turned down Malcolm Brogdon and a 1st, and a Kings package of Hield/Bagley (or Barnes)/multiple 1st rounders is definitely a better deal than that. Is it better than pursuing the likes of McCollum or Siakam? Perhaps not, depending on how much you value McCollum or how much you believe in Siakam's ceiling.
But unless a team is willing to overpay for Simmons' services and offer the all-star caliber talent that Morey covets, which seems increasingly unlikely to me, then the Kings' package is going to warrant serious consideration, even if it doesn't feature Fox or Haliburton. If you're Daryl Morey, do you trade your talented-but-flawed star for somebody else's less-talented-and-even-more-flawed star? Or do you trade for an appealing package that splits the difference between your immediate title aspirations and the compiling of assets that you can flip for further contributors as the trade deadline approaches?
The alternative is to run it back with their current roster and cross your fingers that something magically clicks that hasn't yet in the years that Embiid and Simmons have played together. But I honestly believe that Morey would rather suck it up and take less than he wants for Simmons rather than hope that the fifth time's a charm for the Embiid/Simmons pairing. Daryl Morey wasn't hired to sit on his hands, not after the franchise has experienced four straight playoff appearances with three second-round exits and one particularly embarrassing first-round sweep at the hands of the Celtics in 2020. Embiid's window is short, the pressure is on, and rival GM's know it. Morey is going to have to take what he can get.
I'm sure there are tons of possible deals out there that are more imaginative than those I've concocted and more attractive than Hield/Bagley/multiple 1sts, but how many of those are actually going to be offered to Philly? It's many an NBA fans' favorite pastime to cook up trade scenarios that run the gamut between perfectly reasonable and wildly one-sided. They almost never come to pass, of course, because as much sense as any potential trade makes on paper, it takes two teams to engage in trade discussions, and often there is a helluvalot at stake. Most NBA front offices are inherently conservative as a result. Some will choose mediocrity or even futility over taking a risk that could ultimately result in their firing. For all his talent, Ben Simmons is a big risk. He can't shoot. He won't shoot. His attitude is suspect. And his contract is extremely prohibitive.
The Sixers will field many calls on Simmons, and I'd guess that among the ones they've already taken, the Kings' rumored package was likely among the best offers they've so far received. That doesn't mean that a better deal won't come along, but my suspicion is that there won't be a lot of packages that significantly outperform the Kings' offer, even without Fox or Haliburton included. Either that or Morey is going to end up targeting a guy like Lavine and hope for the best.
That said, what kind of "stars" could Daryl Morey reasonably hope to acquire in return for Simmons, particularly given that there aren't really any top tier players who are disgruntled and actively seeking a change of scenery? He's obviously not prying away upper echelon talents like Luka, Giannis, Steph, Durant, Harden, Kawhi, Booker, Tatum, etc. So unless Dame demands a trade from Portland, Morey's probably going to have to sift through veteran talent in the tier(s) below these perennial all-stars in any deal for Simmons.
What about a guy like DeMar DeRozan, who he'd have to engineer a sign-and-trade to acquire? Or Mike Conley, who's age and injury history are obvious red flags? Or Zach Lavine, who only has one year left on his current contract, and thus potentially sets the Sixers up to be Jimmy Butler'd again next offseason? Or something like CJ McCollum and a 1st? Maybe Pascal Siakam and a 1st? They turned down Malcolm Brogdon and a 1st, and a Kings package of Hield/Bagley (or Barnes)/multiple 1st rounders is definitely a better deal than that. Is it better than pursuing the likes of McCollum or Siakam? Perhaps not, depending on how much you value McCollum or how much you believe in Siakam's ceiling.
But unless a team is willing to overpay for Simmons' services and offer the all-star caliber talent that Morey covets, which seems increasingly unlikely to me, then the Kings' package is going to warrant serious consideration, even if it doesn't feature Fox or Haliburton. If you're Daryl Morey, do you trade your talented-but-flawed star for somebody else's less-talented-and-even-more-flawed star? Or do you trade for an appealing package that splits the difference between your immediate title aspirations and the compiling of assets that you can flip for further contributors as the trade deadline approaches?
The alternative is to run it back with their current roster and cross your fingers that something magically clicks that hasn't yet in the years that Embiid and Simmons have played together. But I honestly believe that Morey would rather suck it up and take less than he wants for Simmons rather than hope that the fifth time's a charm for the Embiid/Simmons pairing. Daryl Morey wasn't hired to sit on his hands, not after the franchise has experienced four straight playoff appearances with three second-round exits and one particularly embarrassing first-round sweep at the hands of the Celtics in 2020. Embiid's window is short, the pressure is on, and rival GM's know it. Morey is going to have to take what he can get.
I'm sure there are tons of possible deals out there that are more imaginative than those I've concocted and more attractive than Hield/Bagley/multiple 1sts, but how many of those are actually going to be offered to Philly? It's many an NBA fans' favorite pastime to cook up trade scenarios that run the gamut between perfectly reasonable and wildly one-sided. They almost never come to pass, of course, because as much sense as any potential trade makes on paper, it takes two teams to engage in trade discussions, and often there is a helluvalot at stake. Most NBA front offices are inherently conservative as a result. Some will choose mediocrity or even futility over taking a risk that could ultimately result in their firing. For all his talent, Ben Simmons is a big risk. He can't shoot. He won't shoot. His attitude is suspect. And his contract is extremely prohibitive.
The Sixers will field many calls on Simmons, and I'd guess that among the ones they've already taken, the Kings' rumored package was likely among the best offers they've so far received. That doesn't mean that a better deal won't come along, but my suspicion is that there won't be a lot of packages that significantly outperform the Kings' offer, even without Fox or Haliburton included. Either that or Morey is going to end up targeting a guy like Lavine and hope for the best.
Fox-Hali-Simmons is a bigtime playoff core IF Tyrese truly becomes a star role player (likely), IF De'Aaron develops a credible 3-ball (plausible), IF Simmons develops a passable jumpshot from any distance (errrr...), and IF they can figure out how three guys whose best contributions come w/ball in hand can play together effectively. For better or worse, that trio would be the core: two max guys and a third on his way - we hope - to deserving max $$$.
On one hand, those are a lot of sizable IFs. OTOH, if they're to get really good anytime soon, one way or another the Kings will have to take smart gambles and get lucky.
On one hand, those are a lot of sizable IFs. OTOH, if they're to get really good anytime soon, one way or another the Kings will have to take smart gambles and get lucky.
I believe there are only two teams more desperate than the Kings right now: Portland and Dallas. And I am not sure once picks start being included to offset the outgoing #2 (McCollum or KP) they are going to be remotely as enticing as what the Kings can give. Plus I think arguably Buddy and Bagley is more enticing than McCollum and KP is likely a non-starter.
Cavs seem to be eager to not pay Sexton but that creates some salary balancing acts, moving Love is a problem if Philly has to then turn around and pay out Sexton in a year because that will put them into luxury repeater land.
Cavs seem to be eager to not pay Sexton but that creates some salary balancing acts, moving Love is a problem if Philly has to then turn around and pay out Sexton in a year because that will put them into luxury repeater land.
Dude, you just compared the Kings to two playoff teams, who each have a top ten player. So I think, in terms of desperation, the Kings are, by far, the most desperate. Lolzzz.
I doubt Philly wants McCollum or KP for Simmons, so we’re good there. But hearing they want Lillard, which, if they can get him, would blow a deal centered around Bags and Buddy out of the water.
I doubt Philly wants McCollum or KP for Simmons, so we’re good there. But hearing they want Lillard, which, if they can get him, would blow a deal centered around Bags and Buddy out of the water.
Dude, there is buzz that Lillard wants out of Portland if they can't get to the finals and Doncic is already getting steamed with Dallas general direction. Just because we suck doesn't mean other teams aren't in panic mode. Portland without Dame is in far worse shape than we are.
We kept our coach for FFS.
We kept our coach for FFS.
Did I say that? WTF. I said both teams are desperate to make a major move right now. Portland in particular. Which is why McCollum frequently comes up in the discussion to Philly but they think they can pry Lillard away. Portland is doing everything possible to make Dame happy and Dallas is not far behind. As you say they have top 10, maybe top 5 stars in the league right now who are at various stages of realization they may be stuck with a long term loser.
That's not the baseline for desperation. Portland and Dallas each have extremely competitive superstars that aren't going to abide mediocrity much longer. In Dame's case, it's been a long time spent as a middling playoff team that rarely rises above the second round. They've made it to, what, just one conference finals in the last seven or eight seasons? The Blazers are fortunate that Lillard is so shockingly loyal. If and when he does demand a trade, it won't be because he didn't give them every opportunity to improve the team around him.
The Mavericks, on the other hand, might not be so lucky. There's already a ton of drama in Dallas over the way the organization is run, and Doncic doesn't appear to have appreciated any of it. He reportedly hates playing with Porzingas, he was constantly butting heads with Carlisle, and there was apparently tension between he and members of the front office, too. Cuban canned their GM and their coach in the same week and claimed that he'd divorce his wife before trading Luka. He's that desperate to do whatever is necessary to keep him.
The Kings are certainly desperate to make the playoffs and end their NBA record-setting playoff drought, but they're not "terrified of losing my top-10 player" desperate. They don't have one to lose.
The Mavericks, on the other hand, might not be so lucky. There's already a ton of drama in Dallas over the way the organization is run, and Doncic doesn't appear to have appreciated any of it. He reportedly hates playing with Porzingas, he was constantly butting heads with Carlisle, and there was apparently tension between he and members of the front office, too. Cuban canned their GM and their coach in the same week and claimed that he'd divorce his wife before trading Luka. He's that desperate to do whatever is necessary to keep him.
The Kings are certainly desperate to make the playoffs and end their NBA record-setting playoff drought, but they're not "terrified of losing my top-10 player" desperate. They don't have one to lose.
Of course. But that doesn't alter either franchise's perspective of the stakes. They need to make their superstars happy and put them in a position to compete for a title. Hence the apparent desperation to act now through every avenue available to them. Both teams even managed to hire ex-NBA PG's to be their respective head coaches, hoping that the likes of Billups and Kidd connect with their respective star initiators.
I’d argue the Kings are in much more desperate situation. They’re over levered on their RE deals around the arena, went through 1.3 yrs of no fans, and really need a winner next season to start chipping away at the debt and deferred payments/interest that they’ve been carrying. Another season of irrelevance might break Matina and Vivek (maybe a good thing?).
Great way to frame the situation. IF the Sixers feel like they're backed into a corner and HAVE to trade him, I think the Kings are one of the best teams suited to take a deal. Like you said, it seems unlikely they get an all-star caliber in return; maybe like Jaylen Brown level? But I assume Boston would ask for more from the Sixers.
Buddy/Barnes/9 (would prefer Bagley obviously), gives them 2 perfect fits to maximize Embiid. The Sixers all of a sudden have the best spacing in the NBA with Seth/Buddy/Barnes/Tobias and lets Embiid cook in the paint. Thybulle is a perfect compliment to Seth/Buddy as well and while the defense would take a hit losing Simmons, it's just not going to be bad with Embiid anchoring the paint. 9 gives them a potential reload piece to extend their window on a young guy, or the ability to flip for more win-now help.
Basically, 2 things have to happen. 1. Sixers have to feel cornered to trading him this off-season and 2. No one offers an all-star caliber talent. Then I think the Kings can be players for him.
Buddy/Barnes/9 (would prefer Bagley obviously), gives them 2 perfect fits to maximize Embiid. The Sixers all of a sudden have the best spacing in the NBA with Seth/Buddy/Barnes/Tobias and lets Embiid cook in the paint. Thybulle is a perfect compliment to Seth/Buddy as well and while the defense would take a hit losing Simmons, it's just not going to be bad with Embiid anchoring the paint. 9 gives them a potential reload piece to extend their window on a young guy, or the ability to flip for more win-now help.
Basically, 2 things have to happen. 1. Sixers have to feel cornered to trading him this off-season and 2. No one offers an all-star caliber talent. Then I think the Kings can be players for him.
I think way too much is assumed about a failed cash call at the bottom of the pandemic. The markets rebounded in a huge way and real estate is stronger than ever thanks to the virtually free money thanks to ultra low interest rates. Not to mention the business loans that were handed out shortly after the cash call that enabled businesses to write them off if they kept minimum employment levels. And NBA ratings are up so the next TV deal will probably bring even more money.
I think a lot of people who saw the bottom crashing out in May 2020 but didn't panic (which answering a cash call would absolutely qualify) are absolutely sitting pretty in July 2021.
I think a lot of people who saw the bottom crashing out in May 2020 but didn't panic (which answering a cash call would absolutely qualify) are absolutely sitting pretty in July 2021.