[Game] Kings @ Spurs, 3/29/21 5:30pm PST, 8:30pm EST

[The_Jamal]

But the elephant in the room is what his “per 36” is on the defensive end of the floor. I don’t find it a coincidence that the KINGS defense has seemingly improved post MB3’s injury.

He can be 20/10 per 36 guy all day, but until he can play better team defense his value is extremely limited.

The issue has always been on the defensive end. As a rookie, he showed pretty good scoring chops and the ability to get the free throw line. He's absolutely advanced this year as a corner 3pt threat and working off-ball. Acting more as a finisher of an offensive play rather than stopping the ball in ISO situations.

Defensively, though he just doesn't hold up to starting level talent. All his metrics again are near bottom of the league and we're gaining a bigger and bigger sample without him on the court that he was a huge issue to us being one of the worst defensive teams ever. I just keep thinking how far away he was from Richaun Holmes level impact; essentially a top 15-20 starter at his position. He needs to follow the Enes Kanter route: Be a 20-22 MPG sub that dominates offensive USG off the bench, is a replacement level starter if injuries happen and doesn't get exposed by starting caliber guards and bigs.

 

[mac]

Anyone think it’s odd Poeltl only tallied 17 points? It feels like he dropped about 30

Might be confusing Eubanks for him, who had his fair share of points too. Also Poeltl got a lot tip outs that led to second chance points even if they weren't scored by him.

 

[mac]

Every one of those guys is trash. Bagley has more potential than all those. Would you traxe Bagley for any of them? Just asking for a friend

Well not now that we've seen them play out, but in year 1-2 of their careers? I'd quite readily take Beasley/Jabari/Turner over Bagley

 

[SwipaTical]

I disagree and I don't think he's played bad at all when he's in. I don't understand why people acting like he's a bust. Only thing stopping this guy is injuries and full starting minutes. He's earned his minutes. Nobody here understands why he doesn't play in 4th when the starting unit with him in it has a positive rating. I understand putting rook in but it's not because Bagley can't play. Everyone gets amnesia when we win lol.

Bagley doesnt play in the 4th because holmes is leaps and bounds better defensively. So what are you suggesting. That he be given 30+ mins once he returns even though he clearly drags this team's potential down ?


Bagley gets injured and 2 things happen:


• Defense improves by 10 points per game
• Offense is scoring at equal pace.

What exactly was bagley contributing?

During the first 7-1 stretch bagley averaged 25 mins and 10 points and hardly ever saw the court in the final 10 mins because of his defense.


Pj Washington went for 42 against a kings defense with bagley on the court. He followed that performance with 1-8 for 3 points. Same guy that played 44 mins in his last game and scored 0 points.


Where are the positives to Bagley's game? Rebounding. Cool so he can come off the bench and provide some scoring and rebounding. This franchise cant be held captive by Bagley's development.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

This franchise cant be held captive by Bagley's development.

At this point I’m just happy that missing on the 2nd pick in the draft nearly 3 years ago hasn’t completely stunted this franchise‘s immediate future the way it could have and that they still seemingly have a bright future with Swipa‘s development and the good fortune of landing Tyrese Haliburton.

Hali is making up for the lack of impact from a #2 pick.

On second thought, let’s just hypnotize ourselves into believing the KINGS selected Hali #2 and MB3 #12 in their respective drafts.

 

[BigVirg]

1 down 1 more to go before the hype train arrives! Just took a look at the schedule we play the Mavs 3 times, Spurs 2 more times, and Grizzlies twice more as well. This is setting up for an epic ending riding high or a colossal crash back to earth with a major letdown. Buckle up, let's GO!

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

Apparently I will need to find a cut of this game online somewhere as the NBA.com highlights video looks like it was put together by the Spurs crew. Going off that video I would’ve assumed we got crushed.

 

[Section 101]

If Bagley wasn't Mr. Glass right now he'd be awesome. If he actually played a full year I don't think anyone would have an issue with his game. He goes out for so long every injury its like having to start all over again every time he's back.

Its to the point where if you draft a big, all they should focus on is the weightroom for 1/4 of the season, then get into practices and acclimated with the team. So many bigs get hurt early in their careers.

Bagleys problem was his coaching growing up. All focused on his offensive athleticism and not learning how to play team offensive or defensive.

 

[jcassio]

With Beli and Cojo gone, our two weak links on defense are Bagley and Hield. We are at a disadvantage when both are on the floor at the same time. If I were the coach, that wouldn't happen. But Bagley is not some useless piece of garbage as some here would have you believe. We just have to give him minutes when his defense won't kill us. If Pop were coaching him, I'm certain he would not be getting starters' minutes, and what minutes he would get would depend on how well he is playing on both sides of the ball. What do you do with a player who's instincts are to jump out at a shooter AFTER the ball has left the shooter's hands? This happens over and over, with the result being unecessary fouls and not being in rebounding position. It's like a practice drill when you go brain dead and start doing something repeatedly even though it's not effective.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

The issue has always been on the defensive end. As a rookie, he showed pretty good scoring chops and the ability to get the free throw line. He's absolutely advanced this year as a corner 3pt threat and working off-ball. Acting more as a finisher of an offensive play rather than stopping the ball in ISO situations.

Defensively, though he just doesn't hold up to starting level talent. All his metrics again are near bottom of the league and we're gaining a bigger and bigger sample without him on the court that he was a huge issue to us being one of the worst defensive teams ever. I just keep thinking how far away he was from Richaun Holmes level impact; essentially a top 15-20 starter at his position. He needs to follow the Enes Kanter route: Be a 20-22 MPG sub that dominates offensive USG off the bench, is a replacement level starter if injuries happen and doesn't get exposed by starting caliber guards and bigs.

He's a ball stopper on offense, as well. Remember that he would go for several games, without a single assist. The ball movement is so much better without him involved

 

[sactowndog]

Most of the remaining 6 seem winnable. Lakers suck right now. Still no AD or Lebron. Minnesota, Detroit, and Washington are bad period. Game 2 against San Antonio is the type of trap game we need to win to keep this momentum going and New Orleans is match-up hell for us but they have no answer for our backcourt just like we have no answer for their frontcourt. We split the first two meetings. We're probably going to need some favorable officiating to win that one with all the limbs that will be flying through the paint (or at least not objectively horrible).

It’s not just a trap game but a game that Pop can make play-off type adjustments. I expect this next game to be a tough one to get but one we really need.

 

[sactowndog]

Bagleys problem was his coaching growing up. All focused on his offensive athleticism and not learning how to play team offensive or defensive.

I agree. To me despite saying losing Bagley would hurt the tank I wouldn’t trade him, He more than any is a player that needs good fundamental coaching.

 

[New Era]

It’s not just a trap game but a game that Pop can make play-off type adjustments. I expect this next game to be a tough one to get but one we really need.

I don't really think it's a "trap" game at all. A trap game would be like if we played the T-Wolves and we think that we can win without really trying. We had a few of those in the beginning of that 9 game losing streak.

I think everybody knows that this game will be really hard. It's not easy to go to the other team's place and sweep, especially if it's Pop and the Spurs.

 

[hrdboild]

It’s not just a trap game but a game that Pop can make play-off type adjustments. I expect this next game to be a tough one to get but one we really need.

The Spurs have lost 5 of their last 6 games. It's not a matter of discipline or execution for them, they just don't have the talent this year. Unless "Playoff style adjustments" means finding another All Star in the next 24 hours, the Spurs are clearly outmatched. I respect Popovich as a coach but his team has been bleeding talent for several years and there's only so much he can do from the sideline. I called it a trap game because we're riding high on a 5 game winning streak and that tends to make players a little complacent. As long as we don't come out over-confident this is our game to lose right now.

 

[regularkingsfan]

Bagley gets injured and 2 things happen:


• Defense improves by 10 points per game
• Offense is scoring at equal pace.

.

The improvement on defense is not because of Bagley's absence . Here is the comparison of the starting lineup before and after Bagley's injury. The defensive rating is very similar. The defensive problem with this team was not Bagley or even Buddy. The major problem was the lack of long, athletic wing defenders (this McNair already addressed). The minor problem (very unpopular here) is the Fox and Buddy back court. Well it does not matter if you replace Bagley with Hali in the starting lineup, defensive result is the same as below.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

It’s not just a trap game but a game that Pop can make play-off type adjustments. I expect this next game to be a tough one to get but one we really need.

The great thing about an elite pick and roll tandem, is that there's not much they can do against it

 

[SacTownKid]

But the elephant in the room is what his “per 36” is on the defensive end of the floor. I don’t find it a coincidence that the KINGS defense has seemingly improved post MB3’s injury.

He can be 20/10 per 36 guy all day, but until he can play better team defense his value is extremely limited.

Most teams don't really try to win with young talent like that. They develop them dealing with those faults as time goes on. Right or wrong the Kings never fully went into the all in on the youth bit. Even with Fox they jerked him around for a few years sticking George Hill types in his way.

 

[Livinthedream]

Most teams don't really try to win with young talent like that. They develop them dealing with those faults as time goes on. Right or wrong the Kings never fully went into the all in on the youth bit. Even with Fox they jerked him around for a few years sticking George Hill types in his way.

Teams clear the way and let the youngsters figure it out for a couple of years. Let them play free.

In Memphis, JJJ would not have beat out Gasol and Morant would not have beat out Conley simply due to the experience factor. But mgmt was smart enough to ship out the vets and give the high draft choices the franchise. If a team drafts in the top 5, they have to give that draft pick a chance to be a star and not stunt their growth.

Could you imagine Denver telling MPJ that he can't play because the team is a playoff contender and he doesn't play defense? Or telling him that he needs to be more well rounded? No, they let him do what he does best and work around it.

 

[hrdboild]

Teams clear the way and let the youngsters figure it out for a couple of years. Let them play free.

In Memphis, JJJ would not have beat out Gasol and Morant would not have beat out Conley simply due to the experience factor. But mgmt was smart enough to ship out the vets and give the high draft choices the franchise. If a team drafts in the top 5, they have to give that draft pick a chance to be a star and not stunt their growth.

Could you imagine Denver telling MPJ that he can't play because the team is a playoff contender and he doesn't play defense? Or telling him that he needs to be more well rounded? No, they let him do what he does best and work around it.

Considering we're 3-0 against Denver this season and they're currently tied with Portland for the 5/6 seed after finishing 3rd in the West last year (and 2nd the year before), that might not be the best example.

 

[dude12]

The improvement on defense is not because of Bagley's absence . Here is the comparison of the starting lineup before and after Bagley's injury. The defensive rating is very similar. The defensive problem with this team was not Bagley or even Buddy. The major problem was the lack of long, athletic wing defenders (this McNair already addressed). The minor problem (very unpopular here) is the Fox and Buddy back court. Well it does not matter if you replace Bagley with Hali in the starting lineup, defensive result is the same as below.

View attachment 10500

Wohhh, wooooohh, hold on there, that’s not fitting the narrative

 

[SacTownKid]

Teams clear the way and let the youngsters figure it out for a couple of years. Let them play free.

In Memphis, JJJ would not have beat out Gasol and Morant would not have beat out Conley simply due to the experience factor. But mgmt was smart enough to ship out the vets and give the high draft choices the franchise. If a team drafts in the top 5, they have to give that draft pick a chance to be a star and not stunt their growth.

Could you imagine Denver telling MPJ that he can't play because the team is a playoff contender and he doesn't play defense? Or telling him that he needs to be more well rounded? No, they let him do what he does best and work around it.

And build value in the process. With high pick rookie deals so large and with the extensions afterward almost guaranteed max level that gives teams very little time to mess around developing players. If they get rid of the 1 and done rule they better add a year onto rookie deals so teams aren't stuck into such a small window of development.

 

[Livinthedream]

Considering we're 3-0 against Denver this season and they're currently tied with Portland for the 5/6 seed after finishing 3rd in the West last year (and 2nd the year before), that might not be the best example.

Not sure that you can draw a straight line to their conference standings through MPJ.

 

[Woot!]

The improvement on defense is not because of Bagley's absence . Here is the comparison of the starting lineup before and after Bagley's injury. The defensive rating is very similar. The defensive problem with this team was not Bagley or even Buddy. The major problem was the lack of long, athletic wing defenders (this McNair already addressed). The minor problem (very unpopular here) is the Fox and Buddy back court. Well it does not matter if you replace Bagley with Hali in the starting lineup, defensive result is the same as below.

View attachment 10500

You're making it overly complicated IMO.

The Kings rolled the dice on making a playoff push (and I'm glad they did). They're now doing very well without Bagley. If it ain't broke...

Couple caveats.

Had they been doing well w/Bagley, I imagine most of us would say: re-insert him into the starting lineup when he returns. But they weren't.

Ditto if Bagley was clearly a good, net-positive player. I'm not seeing that. More importantly, doesn't seem the Kings are seeing that. Saddiq Bey's a nice young player, but if McNair tried to trade Bags for him straight up I think it's fair to say that the Kings braintrust isn't overly impressed with MBIII. (And Detroit said NO!)

All to say that Bags hasn't earned the presumption that he can help rather than hurt a Kings' team on a roll it needs to keep going. That said, I hope he's given a fair chance to surprise (many of) us.