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Had another full viewing of Mobley. My views haven't changed. I see a young Aldridge. Going to be a sometimes all star, but I don't see Garnett. The quality of college basketball this year has really gone down.
Illinois has two first rounders: Ayo Donsunmu and Kofi Cockburn. Donsumu is playing point for the Illini--legit 6'5, facilitator. Stare hard enough and there's a lot of Fox/Elfrid Payton to his game. More Payton than Fox. But a 1/2 type, who will defend either spot and will be a 10 year pro. Mid to late first. Cockburn is probably the biggest beast in college hoops. In another era, he'd be a top 3 pick. Just enormous and athletic too. Think Zach Randolph size without the skill. Late first.
Also, in the one full game that I saw, Kispert (Gonzaga) looked very pedestrian to me. Has a shot, but I wouldn't take him in the first. Small sample size. I think Grant Anticevich (Cal) is a better player. Anticevich reminds me of a young Joe Ingles. Not as skilled with the ball, but should be a better shooter long term.
Illinois has two first rounders: Ayo Donsunmu and Kofi Cockburn. Donsumu is playing point for the Illini--legit 6'5, facilitator. Stare hard enough and there's a lot of Fox/Elfrid Payton to his game. More Payton than Fox. But a 1/2 type, who will defend either spot and will be a 10 year pro. Mid to late first. Cockburn is probably the biggest beast in college hoops. In another era, he'd be a top 3 pick. Just enormous and athletic too. Think Zach Randolph size without the skill. Late first.
Also, in the one full game that I saw, Kispert (Gonzaga) looked very pedestrian to me. Has a shot, but I wouldn't take him in the first. Small sample size. I think Grant Anticevich (Cal) is a better player. Anticevich reminds me of a young Joe Ingles. Not as skilled with the ball, but should be a better shooter long term.
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On Kispert, your dead wrong! He's one of those high BBIQ players who knows how to play the game. He's also a good team defender who always knows where to be on the court. He's definitely one of the best shooters in College, if not the best. Doesn't matter to him whether its a catch and shoot, or flying off a screen. He never stops moving without the ball on offense. Despite being a very good offensive player, he's not a black hole. He seldom takes a bad shot. Kispert is one of those players who can step in and play right away.
I agree with you on Dosunmu. I love his game. Above average athlete who can play both the point and the SG positions. Above average defender, and the dude can score the ball from anywhere on the floor. Wouldn't be surprised to see him going in the lottery. As for Mobley, I have no idea what he's going to turn into, but he has the potential to be a very good player. Three or four years from now he'll look entirely different than he does today. Part of trying to get a read on Mobley is the team he playing on.
He has a bunch of guards that are looking for their own. He'll do a great job of fronting his man, but he never gets the entry pass. They could run a high/low set with him and his brother, and no one would be able to defend them, but instead they have Evan posting up at the freethrow line and never getting the ball. I've watched him play 8 times already and it's the same story over and over again. So I would advise you to be a little patient with your appraisal. Right now he's a victim of circumstance. I think Mobley is more center than PF, which is why I would't compare him to either Garnett or Aldridge. I think he has a better chance of being something more like David Robinson. And please, I'm not saying that's who he's going to be.
I agree with you on Dosunmu. I love his game. Above average athlete who can play both the point and the SG positions. Above average defender, and the dude can score the ball from anywhere on the floor. Wouldn't be surprised to see him going in the lottery. As for Mobley, I have no idea what he's going to turn into, but he has the potential to be a very good player. Three or four years from now he'll look entirely different than he does today. Part of trying to get a read on Mobley is the team he playing on.
He has a bunch of guards that are looking for their own. He'll do a great job of fronting his man, but he never gets the entry pass. They could run a high/low set with him and his brother, and no one would be able to defend them, but instead they have Evan posting up at the freethrow line and never getting the ball. I've watched him play 8 times already and it's the same story over and over again. So I would advise you to be a little patient with your appraisal. Right now he's a victim of circumstance. I think Mobley is more center than PF, which is why I would't compare him to either Garnett or Aldridge. I think he has a better chance of being something more like David Robinson. And please, I'm not saying that's who he's going to be.
Watched the Ignite G-League game, and was very impressed with Kuminga. Despite the fact that his 3 pt shot wasn't falling, his form looked good so I'm going to contribute it to a bad shooting night. Other than that, he's a very good passer. He made a cross court bounce pass while on the move to a cutting teammate through two defenders that not many players could make. He's a very good athlete, with good handles for his size and position. Of all the rookie's on the team, he looked the most ready to play in the NBA.
I have to give some love to Nix as well. He played with a lot of confidence and had no fear going to the basket. He's a solidly built young man, who maybe could stand to lose a pound or two. But he moved well, shot the three, finished at the basket, and made some nice passes. Green struggled with his shot and at the basket in a crowd. He's really skinny and definitely needs to get into the weight room. He is a lightning quick player who can jump out of the building. I'm anxious to see him in Friday's game to see if this last game was an aberration. Todd had a moment here and there, but looked a bit lost at times. He appears a little raw to me, but you can see there's talent there
By the way, I'm willing to trade Joseph straight up for 37 year old Jarrett Jack. Jack was on fire in the game and I think he only missed one shot total. He was probably the best player on the floor. My apologies to Bobby Brown...
I have to give some love to Nix as well. He played with a lot of confidence and had no fear going to the basket. He's a solidly built young man, who maybe could stand to lose a pound or two. But he moved well, shot the three, finished at the basket, and made some nice passes. Green struggled with his shot and at the basket in a crowd. He's really skinny and definitely needs to get into the weight room. He is a lightning quick player who can jump out of the building. I'm anxious to see him in Friday's game to see if this last game was an aberration. Todd had a moment here and there, but looked a bit lost at times. He appears a little raw to me, but you can see there's talent there
By the way, I'm willing to trade Joseph straight up for 37 year old Jarrett Jack. Jack was on fire in the game and I think he only missed one shot total. He was probably the best player on the floor. My apologies to Bobby Brown...
Regarding, Kispert, it was one viewing, but a worthwhile one. Gonzaga got physicalled by an inferior UOP team, who kept the game close till the last ten mins of the game. That Gonzaga team will not win the championship. Suggs and Kispert are overrated. YouTube highlights show a nice shot on Kispert when he has space, but I saw a very average athlete, who struggled to create his own shot, and who was bothered by physicality. I do agree that he knows how to play the game, but I wouldn’t pick him unless it’s the late first and beyond.
As for Mobley, I’ve had two full viewings and I just don’t see Robinson. Robinson had the movements of a wing in a 7 feet body. Mobley dossn’t have that kind of fluidity—neither did Ayton (never understood that comp), I remember Aldridge in college and he reminds me of Aldridge. A skinny 5/4 with good feet, length, good fundamentals and athleticism. I don’t see a generational star though. We’ll see.
As for Mobley, I’ve had two full viewings and I just don’t see Robinson. Robinson had the movements of a wing in a 7 feet body. Mobley dossn’t have that kind of fluidity—neither did Ayton (never understood that comp), I remember Aldridge in college and he reminds me of Aldridge. A skinny 5/4 with good feet, length, good fundamentals and athleticism. I don’t see a generational star though. We’ll see.
On Gonzaga, the teams they've struggled against are mid-level conference teams that they simply took too lightly. You mention UOP, but forgot to mention that Gonzaga beat them by almost 20 pt's, 76 to 58, once they woke up. How many times have you seen one of the top NBA teams get beat by one of the worse teams in the NBA. It happens! Does that mean the best team won? No, of course not, and you don't judge that top team by that one game. I try to never speak in absolutes because predicting how good a player is going to be in most cases is extremely difficult, unless it's a very young Lebron.
I was very high on Bradley Beal coming out of college, and you can't believe the arguments I had over him. I had people on this forum arguing that Tatum was a poor man's Rudy Gay, or worse. I do my best to always look for the positives in a player, and not the negatives, although I will discuss those before the draft. I don't ignore them. I try to concentrate on the little things a player does, and what system he's being asked to play in. Many times the system or the coach, or both don't really fit the player. In Mobley's case, he hasn't had a real chance to showcase his talents. I'm not saying he's the next David Robinson, I'm saying his game resembles David's. Robinson could score inside and outside, but he was a great post defender and rebounder. Is Mobley as fluid? I have no idea, and frankly I don't care.
Aldridge has never been known for being a rim protector or a great rebounder. I think he averaged double digit rebounds a few years in the middle of his career, but probably 8 a game for his career. That's not a knock on Aldridge, who if Mobley turns out to be like, I'd be OK with. Mobley is a very good rebounder despite his lack of strength, or size. He does a good job of rebounding out of his area. So imagine him with 20 more pounds of muscle.
By the way, Gonzaga beat Kansas, Auburn, Virginia, Iowa, and W. Virginia on their non-conference schedule and they have the best record in college at 19 and 0. Just for you, here are the highlights of Kispert in a game I watched against a ranked Virginia team.
I was very high on Bradley Beal coming out of college, and you can't believe the arguments I had over him. I had people on this forum arguing that Tatum was a poor man's Rudy Gay, or worse. I do my best to always look for the positives in a player, and not the negatives, although I will discuss those before the draft. I don't ignore them. I try to concentrate on the little things a player does, and what system he's being asked to play in. Many times the system or the coach, or both don't really fit the player. In Mobley's case, he hasn't had a real chance to showcase his talents. I'm not saying he's the next David Robinson, I'm saying his game resembles David's. Robinson could score inside and outside, but he was a great post defender and rebounder. Is Mobley as fluid? I have no idea, and frankly I don't care.
Aldridge has never been known for being a rim protector or a great rebounder. I think he averaged double digit rebounds a few years in the middle of his career, but probably 8 a game for his career. That's not a knock on Aldridge, who if Mobley turns out to be like, I'd be OK with. Mobley is a very good rebounder despite his lack of strength, or size. He does a good job of rebounding out of his area. So imagine him with 20 more pounds of muscle.
By the way, Gonzaga beat Kansas, Auburn, Virginia, Iowa, and W. Virginia on their non-conference schedule and they have the best record in college at 19 and 0. Just for you, here are the highlights of Kispert in a game I watched against a ranked Virginia team.
I will say that in the case of Tatum, he’s done an amazing job of expanding his range/altering his shot distribution for the modern NBA. And he came into the league just as combo 3/4s were really coming into fashion (as opposed to Rudy or even Derrick Williams who both sort of wound up being “tweeners” back when that was a bad thing).
Mobley’s a kid who I think will thrive after a little time spent with an NBA coaching and training staff. Metu and Okongwu both are kinda in the same boats. I’m not sure what USC’s doing but between those two guys and Porter JR. and Melton, they aren’t exactly producing NBA ready players despite them displaying physical attributes/traits that seem tailor-made for the league. Of course Mobley is miles ahead of all those guys as a prospect so it’s probably of no concern. I’m not sure about his mobility but watching him play it feels like he’s still growing into his body at times and I think his general feel for the game is more than worthy of a number two or three overall pick (Suggs
seems to be picking up steam as a second overall pick).
Also Kispert is a player (as pretty much any Gonzaga guy is) and I’m not sure why people are suddenly down on him. Is he a little older than some of the other guys? Yes but he’s also going to give a team immediate production in his rookie season.
Mobley’s a kid who I think will thrive after a little time spent with an NBA coaching and training staff. Metu and Okongwu both are kinda in the same boats. I’m not sure what USC’s doing but between those two guys and Porter JR. and Melton, they aren’t exactly producing NBA ready players despite them displaying physical attributes/traits that seem tailor-made for the league. Of course Mobley is miles ahead of all those guys as a prospect so it’s probably of no concern. I’m not sure about his mobility but watching him play it feels like he’s still growing into his body at times and I think his general feel for the game is more than worthy of a number two or three overall pick (Suggs
seems to be picking up steam as a second overall pick).
Also Kispert is a player (as pretty much any Gonzaga guy is) and I’m not sure why people are suddenly down on him. Is he a little older than some of the other guys? Yes but he’s also going to give a team immediate production in his rookie season.
OK, I've seen enough.
Jonathan Kuminga and Jalen Green are, in some order, the two best prospects in this draft. Forget Cunningham, forget Suggs, forget Mobley. These are the guys.
And while I'm at it, despite his complete lack of appearance on basically any draft board, Isaiah Todd is a top-10 player in this draft. The only big man who has a chance of beating him out in the end is Mobley. Kid is a Chris Bosh clone, and now that the G-League is playing, expect him to show up and then shoot up the draft boards.
The question mark player on Ignite is Moby Nix. 31-year-old James Harden can come off a COVID off-season looking like the title character to a Irvin S. Yeaworth Jr. film, but a 19-year old kid can't come into the draft looking like that. He's going to need an NBA conditioning program to get the best out of him, but there's something there if you have the patience to shed the pounds off him.
Jonathan Kuminga and Jalen Green are, in some order, the two best prospects in this draft. Forget Cunningham, forget Suggs, forget Mobley. These are the guys.
And while I'm at it, despite his complete lack of appearance on basically any draft board, Isaiah Todd is a top-10 player in this draft. The only big man who has a chance of beating him out in the end is Mobley. Kid is a Chris Bosh clone, and now that the G-League is playing, expect him to show up and then shoot up the draft boards.
The question mark player on Ignite is Moby Nix. 31-year-old James Harden can come off a COVID off-season looking like the title character to a Irvin S. Yeaworth Jr. film, but a 19-year old kid can't come into the draft looking like that. He's going to need an NBA conditioning program to get the best out of him, but there's something there if you have the patience to shed the pounds off him.
The thing with the UOP game is they adjusted after the first game where they were beaten down by Gonzaga. UOP basically played more physical and that bothered Gonzaga until about the ten minute mark in the 2H,
Regarding Kispert, I’m not down on him. I was never up on him. Didn’t even know he was rated as a potential late lottery selection till after the game. He’s not a lottery worthy pick. Maybe late first. Reminds me of Jason Kapono, who I went to UCLA with. Knows the game, has a shot, going to have a 5 to 7 yr career, but will never be a star.
I’m not a fan of saying the team is holding down a player’s talent. Generational talent would come through in any scheme. I just don’t see a generational talent in Mobley. I see Aldridge. Until proven otherwise.
Regarding Kispert, I’m not down on him. I was never up on him. Didn’t even know he was rated as a potential late lottery selection till after the game. He’s not a lottery worthy pick. Maybe late first. Reminds me of Jason Kapono, who I went to UCLA with. Knows the game, has a shot, going to have a 5 to 7 yr career, but will never be a star.
I’m not a fan of saying the team is holding down a player’s talent. Generational talent would come through in any scheme. I just don’t see a generational talent in Mobley. I see Aldridge. Until proven otherwise.
I think Kapono was a little better athlete than Kispert, but Kispert is the better shooter. Kispert has that J.J. Redick ability to square up while moving laterally and make a shot. So he's more than just a catch and shoot player, and as I said, he's not a black hole either. I have Kispert going somewhere between 16 and 25 in the draft. I don't have him in the lottery. I have Mobley going between 5 and 8 depending on whose picking. I try not to put the moniker of being a generational talent on any player. If Mobley ends up being the next Aldridge, I'd be fine having that player on my team, but I tend to go along more with some NBA scouts who use the comp of Chris Bosh.
That said, I hate comps. A comp puts an expectation on a player that I think is a bit unfair, whether too high, or too low. I prefer to think that some day, that player will be the comp.. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on some of these players.
That said, I hate comps. A comp puts an expectation on a player that I think is a bit unfair, whether too high, or too low. I prefer to think that some day, that player will be the comp.. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on some of these players.
Yeah, I was trying to be nice to Nix since he's just out of highschool, but he is a bit on the chunky side. Definitely talented, but one has to question his work ethic a bit. Time will tell. Right now, I tend to agree with you on Kuminga and Green, especially Kuminga who just leaps out at you when he's on the floor. He's definitely going to be a special player. Great 2nd game by Green, but I want to see him play a few more games. That said, I'd certainly take him if he's sitting there. Terrific athlete..
Jalen Johnson is opting out of the rest of the season at Duke to prepare for the draft.
It makes sense - his minutes have been dropping since he came back from the foot injury and didn't start the last couple. If that trend continued it would only hurt his draft stock.
If he's going to prep for the draft he should hire a shooting coach and work hard to fix his outside jumper.
And while I get the logic, it's not a great look for a top 10 pick in the draft to essentially quit on his team. Especially a guy who has changed schools as much as Johnson did in high school. It's going to have teams questioning his competitiveness and loyalty. Plus so far he seems injury prone.
I am a big fan of his skillset but this just adds questions about Johnson for me.
It makes sense - his minutes have been dropping since he came back from the foot injury and didn't start the last couple. If that trend continued it would only hurt his draft stock.
If he's going to prep for the draft he should hire a shooting coach and work hard to fix his outside jumper.
And while I get the logic, it's not a great look for a top 10 pick in the draft to essentially quit on his team. Especially a guy who has changed schools as much as Johnson did in high school. It's going to have teams questioning his competitiveness and loyalty. Plus so far he seems injury prone.
I am a big fan of his skillset but this just adds questions about Johnson for me.
I don't think I'm being harsh and he was one of my favorite prospects going into this season. If he's still having nagging injury issues then I understand. Might as well get healthy and prepare for the draft since he's not returning to Duke.
But it's also becoming a pattern of abandoning programs/teams to do what's best for him.
If I'm an NBA GM it's not like I can completely ignore that. Especially if he goes to a losing team in the lottery. I have to wonder if he's going to be fully committed to my franchise.
Sure, Duke may not make the tourney, but Oklahoma State was barred from postseason play in 2021 before the season started (though I'm hearing an appeal may allow them to be in the tourney this year) and Cade Cunningham decided to play a full season even though he was already likely the #1 pick.
It may ultimately not mean anything, but it's definitely going to be something that Jalen Johnson will have to answer questions about.
But it's also becoming a pattern of abandoning programs/teams to do what's best for him.
If I'm an NBA GM it's not like I can completely ignore that. Especially if he goes to a losing team in the lottery. I have to wonder if he's going to be fully committed to my franchise.
Sure, Duke may not make the tourney, but Oklahoma State was barred from postseason play in 2021 before the season started (though I'm hearing an appeal may allow them to be in the tourney this year) and Cade Cunningham decided to play a full season even though he was already likely the #1 pick.
It may ultimately not mean anything, but it's definitely going to be something that Jalen Johnson will have to answer questions about.
First, let me be clear, I wasn't trying to start a disagreement with you. I've always respected your opinion. But when it comes to these young kids, I try to remember that they don't think like I do, or you do. They think like a kid, and sometimes make bad decisions. So, you could be right, but personally, if I were a GM, I would be doing tons of research on this kid. For all I know, Coach K suggested he go this route, or at least told him he understood if he made this choice. Not unusual for players to consult with their coaches before making a decision like this.
I guess my point is, I don't have all the info, and therefore I'm left with making assumptions. Most of the time, when I make an assumption, particularly without all the info, I'm wrong. Having said that, you could be dead right. I just don't know, so I'm leaving the door open. In Cunningham's case, his position in the draft is fairly well set, regardless of what he does at this point. He's going top five, probably top three. Not so with Johnson. I have no doubt he'll go in the lottery, but he could go anywhere from six, to fourteen.
Remember, while in college the amount of time you can spend in the Gym working on your game is limited, extremely so. By dropping out of the program, he can get into a more professional setting and work full time on his game. From a scouting perspective, I really like Johnson and if we end up picking somewhere between 10 and 14, and he's there, I would have a hard time passing him up. I guess I have no principles.............
I guess my point is, I don't have all the info, and therefore I'm left with making assumptions. Most of the time, when I make an assumption, particularly without all the info, I'm wrong. Having said that, you could be dead right. I just don't know, so I'm leaving the door open. In Cunningham's case, his position in the draft is fairly well set, regardless of what he does at this point. He's going top five, probably top three. Not so with Johnson. I have no doubt he'll go in the lottery, but he could go anywhere from six, to fourteen.
Remember, while in college the amount of time you can spend in the Gym working on your game is limited, extremely so. By dropping out of the program, he can get into a more professional setting and work full time on his game. From a scouting perspective, I really like Johnson and if we end up picking somewhere between 10 and 14, and he's there, I would have a hard time passing him up. I guess I have no principles.............
one thing to keep in mind about Wagner is he grew an inch and added 5 inches to his Vert this off season. As the parent of two athletes who grew late it takes time to adjust to your new body particularly when shooting from distance. I believe that is also why free throw shooting is often more predictive of professional 3 point success.
If you look at Wagner, Kispert and Williams, all three are pretty good:
Kispert: .894
Wagner: .836
Williams: .796
If you look at Wagner, Kispert and Williams, all three are pretty good:
Kispert: .894
Wagner: .836
Williams: .796
