Fire Walton

[whozit]

People that want the young guys to play over the vets need to direct their anger towards Monte. He signed GR3, Whiteside, didn't trade Belly Buddy or Barnes. The coaches job is to win games and they will put the best players on the court to do that regardless of long term plans the team has. The fans expect Walton to play Ramsey, Woodard, Bagley 40 minutes even though they aren't better players than any of the vets. Oh and they still want him fired even if he does that. It's completely irrational.

Monte should have traded all the vets he didn't see as part of the future, fired Walton and hired his guy before the season. The new coach would have gotten a pass for the poor record because they were young and rebuilding. We would have basically guaranteed ourselves a top 5 pick.

At this point, I think its better to ride it out and hit the reset in the offseason. Belly and at least one more vet probably needs to be moved at the deadline. Cojo will be gone at the end of the season. There is hope for this franchise if we can hit on our next draft pick, sign a perimeter defender and make a solid trade or two.

Buddy and Barnes may still be good for stopgap or more. People aren't complaining about Whiteside, other than earlier when he wasn't getting playing time. He provided something that wasn't just sitting on the bench. The reports are they tried to trade Belly but weren't able. He is still potentially a good trading piece and they aren't playing him. Might be waiting for others to be eligible for trades. That may also be wishful thinking from a fan of another team.

Reading the tea leaves, Walton came with the job. The question comes down to, is Walton doing what is best for the team or himself? He is getting paid either way, so the team should come first.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

The reports on Bjelica are interesting. Surely he is someone who might be able to net us something this season in return from a team making a playoff push. But it might be premature. His undisclosed personal issue, I certainly respect, but it is tough as a fan during this type of season to deal with.

 

[dude12]

Walton should be at least trying to fit in some of the rooks as in Woodard since Ramsey is hurt. There is no giving the young guys some run with regular rotation guys. On the other hand , he’s been forced to do this with Metu since Hassan is injured. As time goes by, we should see this with Woodard or Ramsey or Guy or James at a minimum in short stints in place of Cojo or GR3. Metu got some short stints and now a little bit more. Makes mistakes but also shows some abilities that makes him interesting.

Metu has the advantage of being in the nba already although with another team. Technically, the same can be said about Guy and James but Metu has the advantage of being in the Spurs system and a proven track record of bringing young guys along. At this point, if Walton was worth anything, he’d be using Guy or James’s strengths but James actually looks worse than last year’s early stint and Guy has molded for 2 years running with zero legitimate opportunities.

Walton can’t be allowed to screw over Woodard and Ramsey. Woodard can be a contributor right now defensively on a team that actually can use his ready for the nba skill. Ramsey has flashed an ability to score although in extremely small samples.

Zero faith in Walton with young guys let alone his ability to bring out the best in other players/vets
- Buddy having a terrible year statistically
- Bagley.....I think they are just now figuring out what to do with him offensively and on defense his technique should have been coached up, oh, I don’t know, in the first few years.
- defensively, we are a hot mess. How is it possible that this team is threatening records for being the worst defensively all-time? Just be competent instead of being epically blown out multiple, multiple times.
-Last years reliance on lineups asking players to do things beyond their skill set....Buddy running point on the second unit, Bogi trying his best to be Iso-Joe
- the ludicrous reliance on Cojo, even more ludicrous this year as it’s clear he’s taken a step back from even being solid defensively
-Whiteside. It’s at the point where, I’m fairly certain, that if this was a winning team and the coach wasn’t Walton, Hassan would be available to play instead of out with a “hip injury”.

 

[iowamcnabb]

The question comes down to, is Walton doing what is best for the team or himself? He is getting paid either way, so the team should come first.

What is best for the team and what is best for the Franchise is two different things in this case.

The team is the coaches and the players on the roster. For those guys, they should be trying to win every game and putting the best guys on the floor for the most minutes. Ask Fox or Haliburton if they want Barnes or Holmes on the bench in favor of Bagley or Ramsey/Guy playing instead of Cojo.

What is best for the franchise long term is to rid itself of veteran contracts, develop younger players and get a higher draft slot. Also and most importantly hit on the guys we do draft.

 

[whozit]

The reports on Bjelica are interesting. Surely he is someone who might be able to net us something this season in return from a team making a playoff push. But it might be premature. His undisclosed personal issue, I certainly respect, but it is tough as a fan during this type of season to deal with.

Going by memory but it seemed there was conflicting reports on his "personal issue." Not playing could be labeled "personal issue." Different shades of gray.

 

[whozit]

What is best for the team and what is best for the Franchise is two different things in this case.

The team is the coaches and the players on the roster. For those guys, they should be trying to win every game and putting the best guys on the floor for the most minutes. Ask Fox or Haliburton if they want Barnes or Holmes on the bench in favor of Bagley or Ramsey/Guy playing instead of Cojo.

What is best for the franchise long term is to rid itself of veteran contracts, develop younger players and get a higher draft slot. Also and most importantly hit on the guys we do draft.

If the team is the coaches and players what about the players that rot? Is he doing what is best for the other coaches or just himself? Is he doing what is best for the players on the team or himself?

I agree that players that play should play to win. That is a given. The question who should play? Do I think it is good to put only youngsters in? Heck no. Don't need a bunch scrambling around like heads chopped off. He is playing a tight rotation and playing "favorites" irregardless of the outcome. He has stated he plays who he is comfortable with. Does that sound healthy?

Balance is good for most things. Compromise shouldn't be a dirty word. I don’t see him compromising although I am not behind closed doors.

 

[SwipaTical]

Deaaron Fox after signing extension.

"Obviously everybody wants to win but at the end of the day it's about the long term goal. If were able to win for 3 4 5 6 years that's the goal. Obviously were still trying to win as many games as possible(next year) but at the end of the day you're thinking about the longevity of this league and being able to win for a long time."

Fox is all in on the developmental year. You dont have to worry about his feelings towards who is getting playing time.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Deaaron Fox after signing extension.

"Obviously everybody wants to win but at the end of the day it's about the long term goal. If were able to win for 3 4 5 6 years that's the goal. Obviously were still trying to win as many games as possible(next year) but at the end of the day you're thinking about the longevity of this league and being able to win for a long time."

Fox is all in on the developmental year. You dont have to worry about his feelings towards who is getting playing time.

He was asked why he saw this as an opportunity to sign this contract despite the win loss record. He understands that it’s a process and they aren’t going to be a winning franchise over night. But as he said they are trying to win as many games as possible. He said in another interview, Holmes has been the best player on the team this year. Haliburton has mentioned several times, CoJo has been a team leader and a mentor for him.

Development happens in the weight room, film study, scrimmages, one on one with assistant coaches etc. it’s not just game action. Also, maybe we should have opted in to the Gleague so these guys could get some run when that starts up.

 

[iowamcnabb]

I'm not sure you can go into the season without some vets.
I will agree that some of the fan base's expectations are irrational - as we saw even during the preseason some were screaming about Woodard and Ramsey on the court. Those guys absolutely should get some time since we opted out of the G-League, they can't just do nothing. And many who want a tank just can't stomach the actual product - which is the argument against a process like they did in Philly - would you be willing to just write off 3-4 years of your team - with the first 2 being completely unwatchable product - for a chance to get high picks? Arguably Philly is nowhere near a title and it was a total flop.

.

I agree we need some vets for sure and his signings were reasonable considering they were one year deals. I think we have to thin the heard on vets a bit. Maybe 2 guys less and we would be ok.

I don’t really want a 3-4 year rebuild but I could have stomached one more year of it. If we hit on our next pick we have Fox Hali and new guy to build around. That can be fun to watch regardless of the record. And at that point I would want nothing to do with Lins for the rest of the Fox Era.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

And at that point I would want nothing to do with Lins for the rest of the Fox Era.

Cheers to that!

I've never been in on a blatant process style tank job but COVID changed everything. As a season ticket holder in another sport, there is absolutely nothing worse than a lost season. But with no live attendance? It's an opportunity.

 

[Pacboy]

The reports on Bjelica are interesting. Surely he is someone who might be able to net us something this season in return from a team making a playoff push. But it might be premature. His undisclosed personal issue, I certainly respect, but it is tough as a fan during this type of season to deal with.

Thybulle is out of the rotation in Philly. Bjelica would certainly help them and Thybulle would be a good fit for us

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Thybulle is out of the rotation in Philly. Bjelica would certainly help them and Thybulle would be a good fit for us

I'm ok with that not sure what the salary differences are. If they still want Buddy it could get interesting if we took back their garbage and multiple firsts.

 

[ppine]

If you want to see some serious losing, then just keep insisting on playing all of the young guys.
Where is a guy like Shumpert when we need him most?

 

[KainLear]

If you want to see some serious losing, then just keep insisting on playing all of the young guys.
Where is a guy like Shumpert when we need him most?

Don't get confused with the current "losing" we are getting versus, ahem, as you suggested, "serious losing with young guys". Watching the young core getting minutes while losing is a whole different thing than watching CoJo playing 20 minutes and scored 2 points, an assist, and 3 TOs.

 

[SacTownKid]

29 coaches so far. Firing the coach and rebuilding the team has been on going for decades. What makes anyone think replacing Walton will make that much difference?

Wrong question, what part of history indicates a coach in Waltons position doesn't just sink your franchise at a certain point? Again, how did George Karl work out for new GM Vlade Divac??? Things might still be bad after a change and the longer they wait they either miss the window of excuse or opportunity but when things are getting this bad and you're playing this far against the odds to begin with you at least need to try SOMETHING. Coaches are usually held accountable, it's the way it is, and the way it always will be. When you factor in the results, the attitude, and history the easiest path is common sense.

 

[SacTownKid]

I would suggest that "you just keep trying until you find someone who clicks".

And that does not mean that they are any better coach - just that all the distractions let up and there is a moment of "buy-in" that allows a coach to succeed.

Sometimes, it is just "dumb luck".

Malone was on his way to a long and successful career in Sac - until DMC needed some companionship on the road and contracted meningitis.

Certainly no fault of Malone's - but he lost his job as a direct result (the perils of being a team reliant on one "star").

George Karl (admittedly, a vastly de-energized George Karl) was early on made to understand his limitations regarding his "authority" - and lost his enthusiasm for the job, seeing no long term future here.

A new bunch surrounding DMC started slow but in late January they began to click. , They became the hottest team in the NBA (6 straight wins) but what should have been a 7th straight win (at home, against Charlotte, wasting Cousins' 50+ point game) became a soul crushing loss (see refs 2-minute report) and they collapsed, losing the next 7 games and sealing Karl's fate.

What would have happened if they had WON (that 7th straight game)? Might one (bad) call have changed history?

(Probably not as Vlade was already looking for "his guy".)

We now know that "his guy" was Luke - who was unavailable, so Vlade grabbed Joerger.

Joerger was abrasive and two other things happened. One, the Minnesota job appeared to open up (and Joerger wanted it) and two, it looked like Luke was going to be fired by the Lakers (as we later found out, Vlade's original choice when he chose Joerger).

Musical chairs again.

Malone (certainly), Karl (possibly) and Joerger (probably) could have succeeded here - but Luke got the call.

Now he looks inept (maybe a coronavirus casualty) , so, the drumbeat for change. Bridges have likely been burned.

Next?

I predict D'Antoni (originally drafted by Joe Axelson - called to my attention by the captain).

I would SUGGEST trying something out of the box - perhaps someone like Garrett Temple as a player-coach (see Wilkens, Lenny), since you still have Gentry for two more years (and Dumars)..

But that would be "long term thinking" and the Kings don't think that way.

So, it's time again for a placeholder coach, Alvin Gentry, while Monte looks for HIS guy..

And Luke goes back to college. Not really his fault, but someone's head needs to roll.

And in the Kings case it isn't even really hard. The right coach is the one who will fit the team they've already freaking built. This isn't a scrap situation here. They have a team already. They have a mission statement on how they want to play. They have a plan of some sort.

 

[SacTownKid]

People that want the young guys to play over the vets need to direct their anger towards Monte. He signed GR3, Whiteside, didn't trade Belly Buddy or Barnes. The coaches job is to win games and they will put the best players on the court to do that regardless of long term plans the team has. The fans expect Walton to play Ramsey, Woodard, Bagley 40 minutes even though they aren't better players than any of the vets. Oh and they still want him fired even if he does that. It's completely irrational.

Monte should have traded all the vets he didn't see as part of the future, fired Walton and hired his guy before the season. The new coach would have gotten a pass for the poor record because they were young and rebuilding. We would have basically guaranteed ourselves a top 5 pick.

At this point, I think its better to ride it out and hit the reset in the offseason. Belly and at least one more vet probably needs to be moved at the deadline. Cojo will be gone at the end of the season. There is hope for this franchise if we can hit on our next draft pick, sign a perimeter defender and make a solid trade or two.

Monte will catch the blame for sure at some point but better than who? GR3 and Joseph? Clearly that's working. Not. He continuously plays Joseph like he's the lone stopper on this team when his defensive abilities clearly appear to be a notch or two below what they were. When things are failing maybe experimenting is a good thing. Especially when some of those players have the size you need at the spots you're looking to fill. Walton plays his hand like some how that pair of 1's is going to turn into a full house is he stares at it long enough.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Monte will catch the blame for sure at some point but better than who? GR3 and Joseph? Clearly that's working. Not. He continuously plays Joseph like he's the lone stopper on this team when his defensive abilities clearly appear to be a notch or two below what they were. When things are failing maybe experimenting is a good thing. Especially when some of those players have the size you need at the spots you're looking to fill. Walton plays his hand like some how that pair of 1's is going to turn into a full house is he stares at it long enough.

It took him awhile but he finally adjusted the last game. Cojo didn’t enter until much later than usual and ended up having one of his most impactful games of the season. He alluded to rotational changes coming and has been in contact with Monte regarding those in his presser. If Jefferies was available we would have seen him get minutes as a defensive stopper and I’m sure we will when he is back from injury. James brings some defense but is unplayable on offense.

 

[SwipaTical]

He was asked why he saw this as an opportunity to sign this contract despite the win loss record. He understands that it’s a process and they aren’t going to be a winning franchise over night. But as he said they are trying to win as many games as possible. He said in another interview, Holmes has been the best player on the team this year. Haliburton has mentioned several times, CoJo has been a team leader and a mentor for him.

Development happens in the weight room, film study, scrimmages, one on one with assistant coaches etc. it’s not just game action. Also, maybe we should have opted in to the Gleague so these guys could get some run when that starts up.

Nobody wants holmes benched. Bagley can get his 30+ without that and Cojo can mentor him from the bench.

Agree with the rest.

 

[vladtheimpaler]

when you think about it, assuming that DA is a franchise player, cojo is his ideal backup - mature, not a threat to take minutes from him, maybe a mentor and a decent player (at 10 mpg).

for fox personally, who is a streaky shooter, nothing could be worse than someone like guy as his backup, a guy who might come in and make six straight shots inspiring controversy.

i wonder if fox is kind of nursing some soreness and actually WANTS to play in limited bursts, coming out early in the first quarter. that would explain cojo-itis (on walton's part). it did take a while for steph to be physically confident (ankles).

if the kings did not take advantage of this break in play to practice with a new coach, i think walton finishes the season.

as for the "hungry, young, up and coming coach", didn't we already HAVE that (in joerger)?

question: which will happen first?

A) walton gets fired

B) joerger gets another head coaching job

 

[whozit]

when you think about it, assuming that DA is a franchise player, cojo is his ideal backup - mature, not a threat to take minutes from him, maybe a mentor and a decent player (at 10 mpg).

for fox personally, who is a streaky shooter, nothing could be worse than someone like guy as his backup, a guy who might come in and make six straight shots inspiring controversy.

i wonder if fox is kind of nursing some soreness and actually WANTS to play in limited bursts, coming out early in the first quarter. that would explain cojo-itis (on walton's part). it did take a while for steph to be physically confident (ankles).

if the kings did not take advantage of this break in play to practice with a new coach, i think walton finishes the season.

as for the "hungry, young, up and coming coach", didn't we already HAVE that (in joerger)?

question: which will happen first?

A) walton gets fired

B) joerger gets another head coaching job

A) Walton gets fired but since I don't think Joerger gets another head coaching job anytime soon that's not saying much.

 

[Livinthedream]

How many NBA head coaching careers have died with this franchise?

Smart
Musselman
George
Corbin
Basically anyone not named Adelman.

I think there's a trend.

Edit: Malone is doing alright for himself

 

[Section 101]

when you think about it, assuming that DA is a franchise player, cojo is his ideal backup - mature, not a threat to take minutes from him, maybe a mentor and a decent player (at 10 mpg).

for fox personally, who is a streaky shooter, nothing could be worse than someone like guy as his backup, a guy who might come in and make six straight shots inspiring controversy.

i wonder if fox is kind of nursing some soreness and actually WANTS to play in limited bursts, coming out early in the first quarter. that would explain cojo-itis (on walton's part). it did take a while for steph to be physically confident (ankles).

if the kings did not take advantage of this break in play to practice with a new coach, i think walton finishes the season.

as for the "hungry, young, up and coming coach", didn't we already HAVE that (in joerger)?

question: which will happen first?

A) walton gets fired

B) joerger gets another head coaching job

Your forgetting only half the season is scheduled. There will be a break in the middle of the season.

 

[SacTownKid]

It took him awhile but he finally adjusted the last game. Cojo didn’t enter until much later than usual and ended up having one of his most impactful games of the season. He alluded to rotational changes coming and has been in contact with Monte regarding those in his presser. If Jefferies was available we would have seen him get minutes as a defensive stopper and I’m sure we will when he is back from injury. James brings some defense but is unplayable on offense.

Clearly letting Baze go and Jeffries being out has been a huge issue. But I don't think many of us expected Woodard to be entirely froze out anyway. They said they were going to play small and they really aren't except when he's exhausted most of his options and it's been in a bail out scenario. There hasn't been much commitment to that at all.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

as for the "hungry, young, up and coming coach", didn't we already HAVE that (in joerger)?

Both Joerger and Walton were immediately picked up off of other teams scrap heaps. It's likely that because they didn't have to spend more than a week reflecting on why their previous job was terminated, they've wound up repeating some of the exact mistakes they made at their previous stop.

I happen to think Walton can learn from his LA and SAC experience and be a good coach some day. Joerger already is a good coach but has some personality issues that may prevent him from ever reaching the highest echelon.

 

[itzcoatl]

How many NBA head coaching careers have died with this franchise?

Smart
Musselman
George
Corbin
Basically anyone not named Adelman.

I think there's a trend.

Edit: Malone is doing alright for himself

Most of these guys had no career to begin with. Not sure you could really say it died.

 

[Livinthedream]

Most of these guys had no career to begin with. Not sure you could really say it died.

Equally sad.

 

[iowamcnabb]

But I don't think many of us expected Woodard to be entirely froze out anyway.

I’m curious to see what we have with Woodard. He has such a weird body for an NBA player especially since he is billed as a 3.

 

[joemama]

Becky Hammond (full stop).

 

[vladtheimpaler]

It's not saunders' fault that the t-wolves are in the dumpster.

kat has been mostly grieving BUT they DID make a major change (russell for wiggins), so, you would think they would show something.

saunders is the youngest coach in the league.

philly is doing just fine.

i think joerger gets the minnesota job by the break.