Fire Walton
- Thread starter Tetsujin
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I’m onboard that we need a new coach, but I’m not going to fault luke for getting on a player. Who hasn’t been yelled at by a coach? And what I saw on tv was nothing. If Ty is so fragile that a coach getting in his ear causes him to fold, then I’d have concerns. I don’t think that incident had anything to do with Ty’s mini slump.
yeah the whole thing was a little weird. I have no problem with a coach getting on a guy if he messes up, but that didn’t even seem necessary for what had occurred, but who knows. And of all people a guy who’s generally doing the right thing and BBIQ is through the roof. . I didn’t like it and the way Halliburton walked away left a bad taste in my mouth.l because Halliburton is pretty respectful so if he was that irritated.....
Funny thing was my 76 year old mother texted me and was like “was Walton yelling at Halliburton??” Lol
Funny thing was my 76 year old mother texted me and was like “was Walton yelling at Halliburton??” Lol
I don't remember which game, but I think it was at the end of probably the third quarter, and Hali got the ball in the backcourt with like 0.8 on the clock and he didn't heave a 3/4 court shot. Then it looked like Walton was getting into him right before it went to commercial. I think that's what folks are talking about here.
Found it.
It was in the Blazers game and as Captain said with .8 left in the third.
I just watched it and doesn’t look like anything. Walton is pointing to mid court as if he thinks maybe Ty should have passed? Either way they had a pretty normal discussion about it and then Ty heads for his seat. He shook his head a bit but no tantrum or eye rolling that I could see.
It was in the Blazers game and as Captain said with .8 left in the third.
I just watched it and doesn’t look like anything. Walton is pointing to mid court as if he thinks maybe Ty should have passed? Either way they had a pretty normal discussion about it and then Ty heads for his seat. He shook his head a bit but no tantrum or eye rolling that I could see.
I went back and rewatched it one more time. I don’t think the play In question was Ty not shooting. With less than a minute to go, Metu picked up his dribble and tried to make a pass to Haliburton which Trent picked off and took in for a bucket. This is speculation, but I think Walton might have been looking for Haliburton to come towards Metu instead of waiting for the pass.
I agree with you on several points.
I agree a coach should "get after" players, but that coach should be consistent. Walton absolutely isn't consistent with his treatment (i.e. yelling in the middle of a game) at players. He will yell at the Buddys and Tyreses, but when is the last time he yelled at Holmes or Fox? How about CoJo?
I think that is not the only reason Ty isn't playing as well as of late, but it could be a factor. On the the podcast with JJ Reddick, Ty mentions that protocols have changed drastically and that he "isn't allowed" to get to the arena when he used to. I think there are changes to the schedule and rules (almost daily) and that adapting is a big part of the "rookie wall." What Walton did more than likely (and needlessly) compounded things.
Walton has yet to take the blame for anything. A bad play, a bad quarter, a bad game. A 20 year old rookie has taken more responsibility than our "coach," so I'm not going to have concerns about Ty.
I agree a coach should "get after" players, but that coach should be consistent. Walton absolutely isn't consistent with his treatment (i.e. yelling in the middle of a game) at players. He will yell at the Buddys and Tyreses, but when is the last time he yelled at Holmes or Fox? How about CoJo?
I think that is not the only reason Ty isn't playing as well as of late, but it could be a factor. On the the podcast with JJ Reddick, Ty mentions that protocols have changed drastically and that he "isn't allowed" to get to the arena when he used to. I think there are changes to the schedule and rules (almost daily) and that adapting is a big part of the "rookie wall." What Walton did more than likely (and needlessly) compounded things.
Walton has yet to take the blame for anything. A bad play, a bad quarter, a bad game. A 20 year old rookie has taken more responsibility than our "coach," so I'm not going to have concerns about Ty.
The Kings just need to do something to make sure this doesn't turn into a dumpster fire emotionally. Letting this continue makes it look like the organization is asleep at the wheel. They can't afford to that whether they blow up the team or not. The Kings CAN'T afford to tarnish whatever tiny speck of image they have left. And if the idea is to lose we already know Walton is a bad choice for that. At some point he'll clean up when the games don't matter and teams start sitting players in prep for the playoffs.
I'm not denying that Luke isn't a good head coach and has no business being one. I just don't agree with your statement about Luke being the reason Ingram improved by "leaps" after his departure. Ingram was on an upward trajectory regardless if Luke was to remain his head coach or not. He just needed some time in the league to adjust to the game and even now, he isn't anything eye popping but he is making good strides. As far as your quote on Randle, the Lakers were going after big fish and Randle's development took a while to kick start. This is his third team in New York and finally now he is showing promise and even helping the Knicks be relevant this season after about 15 seasons of irrelevancy unless you want to count that one year where Melo was traded to New York.
Bagley will blossom if he puts in the work and keeps an open mind. Marvin, his father and this entire fan base don't have to worry about Luke once this season precludes and the same can be said of Hali. Hali is an intelligent player and he will shine regardless of what Luke does.
Bagley will blossom if he puts in the work and keeps an open mind. Marvin, his father and this entire fan base don't have to worry about Luke once this season precludes and the same can be said of Hali. Hali is an intelligent player and he will shine regardless of what Luke does.
With the exception of the Cleveland Browns who I am pretty sure I recall actually hired a coach, then a GM, then fired both the next year, in my entire 40+ years of history as a sports fan I can not recall a GM not getting at least one chance to hire their coach. I do not think there is a reason to be concerned here. It makes sense to give a coach every opportunity to win (that includes Luke, too); Monte is building his team and will put his coach in, but if he wants to play a certain style and make some big moves it doesn't make any sense to stick a new coach with a team that is being torn apart. Typically a bad GM gets 3-5 seasons and at least one coach hire whereas a bad coach gets 1.5 seasons tops.
If he was playing players that could be part of the future would be one thing. Sticking with players who obviously are not leaving those that could on the bench is another. There should be a balance but it appears he is not going to change from his way so he needs the highway.
What makes me think it will change, hope. Without hope, why bother? New management, hope till there is none.
What makes me think it will change, hope. Without hope, why bother? New management, hope till there is none.
I would suggest that "you just keep trying until you find someone who clicks".
And that does not mean that they are any better coach - just that all the distractions let up and there is a moment of "buy-in" that allows a coach to succeed.
Sometimes, it is just "dumb luck".
Malone was on his way to a long and successful career in Sac - until DMC needed some companionship on the road and contracted meningitis.
Certainly no fault of Malone's - but he lost his job as a direct result (the perils of being a team reliant on one "star").
George Karl (admittedly, a vastly de-energized George Karl) was early on made to understand his limitations regarding his "authority" - and lost his enthusiasm for the job, seeing no long term future here.
A new bunch surrounding DMC started slow but in late January they began to click. , They became the hottest team in the NBA (6 straight wins) but what should have been a 7th straight win (at home, against Charlotte, wasting Cousins' 50+ point game) became a soul crushing loss (see refs 2-minute report) and they collapsed, losing the next 7 games and sealing Karl's fate.
What would have happened if they had WON (that 7th straight game)? Might one (bad) call have changed history?
(Probably not as Vlade was already looking for "his guy".)
We now know that "his guy" was Luke - who was unavailable, so Vlade grabbed Joerger.
Joerger was abrasive and two other things happened. One, the Minnesota job appeared to open up (and Joerger wanted it) and two, it looked like Luke was going to be fired by the Lakers (as we later found out, Vlade's original choice when he chose Joerger).
Musical chairs again.
Malone (certainly), Karl (possibly) and Joerger (probably) could have succeeded here - but Luke got the call.
Now he looks inept (maybe a coronavirus casualty) , so, the drumbeat for change. Bridges have likely been burned.
Next?
I predict D'Antoni (originally drafted by Joe Axelson - called to my attention by the captain).
I would SUGGEST trying something out of the box - perhaps someone like Garrett Temple as a player-coach (see Wilkens, Lenny), since you still have Gentry for two more years (and Dumars)..
But that would be "long term thinking" and the Kings don't think that way.
So, it's time again for a placeholder coach, Alvin Gentry, while Monte looks for HIS guy..
And Luke goes back to college. Not really his fault, but someone's head needs to roll.
And that does not mean that they are any better coach - just that all the distractions let up and there is a moment of "buy-in" that allows a coach to succeed.
Sometimes, it is just "dumb luck".
Malone was on his way to a long and successful career in Sac - until DMC needed some companionship on the road and contracted meningitis.
Certainly no fault of Malone's - but he lost his job as a direct result (the perils of being a team reliant on one "star").
George Karl (admittedly, a vastly de-energized George Karl) was early on made to understand his limitations regarding his "authority" - and lost his enthusiasm for the job, seeing no long term future here.
A new bunch surrounding DMC started slow but in late January they began to click. , They became the hottest team in the NBA (6 straight wins) but what should have been a 7th straight win (at home, against Charlotte, wasting Cousins' 50+ point game) became a soul crushing loss (see refs 2-minute report) and they collapsed, losing the next 7 games and sealing Karl's fate.
What would have happened if they had WON (that 7th straight game)? Might one (bad) call have changed history?
(Probably not as Vlade was already looking for "his guy".)
We now know that "his guy" was Luke - who was unavailable, so Vlade grabbed Joerger.
Joerger was abrasive and two other things happened. One, the Minnesota job appeared to open up (and Joerger wanted it) and two, it looked like Luke was going to be fired by the Lakers (as we later found out, Vlade's original choice when he chose Joerger).
Musical chairs again.
Malone (certainly), Karl (possibly) and Joerger (probably) could have succeeded here - but Luke got the call.
Now he looks inept (maybe a coronavirus casualty) , so, the drumbeat for change. Bridges have likely been burned.
Next?
I predict D'Antoni (originally drafted by Joe Axelson - called to my attention by the captain).
I would SUGGEST trying something out of the box - perhaps someone like Garrett Temple as a player-coach (see Wilkens, Lenny), since you still have Gentry for two more years (and Dumars)..
But that would be "long term thinking" and the Kings don't think that way.
So, it's time again for a placeholder coach, Alvin Gentry, while Monte looks for HIS guy..
And Luke goes back to college. Not really his fault, but someone's head needs to roll.
I know D'Antoni seems to check a lot of boxes but I don't think he'll be the guy. I think we'll go with a hungry up and coming coach who has new ideas. And I'm pretty sure Monte knows who it is already and part of the plan was to make Walton absorb this year so the new guy with zero track record doesn't have that stink on his resume.
It also means we might have some cost controls on the new guy rather than someone like D'Antoni who would probably demand 5 years that we're stuck with if it doesn't work out after 2. Some will call that being cheap, I'd argue in select cases it is smart. I also think that the majority of retreads that would be open to taking the Kings job are past their expiration dates in the NBA. We have a pretty poor history of hiring "experienced" coaches with fanfare only having them be awful. Adelman had a few stops before he got here but he was kind of a package deal with Petrie.
It also means we might have some cost controls on the new guy rather than someone like D'Antoni who would probably demand 5 years that we're stuck with if it doesn't work out after 2. Some will call that being cheap, I'd argue in select cases it is smart. I also think that the majority of retreads that would be open to taking the Kings job are past their expiration dates in the NBA. We have a pretty poor history of hiring "experienced" coaches with fanfare only having them be awful. Adelman had a few stops before he got here but he was kind of a package deal with Petrie.
People that want the young guys to play over the vets need to direct their anger towards Monte. He signed GR3, Whiteside, didn't trade Belly Buddy or Barnes. The coaches job is to win games and they will put the best players on the court to do that regardless of long term plans the team has. The fans expect Walton to play Ramsey, Woodard, Bagley 40 minutes even though they aren't better players than any of the vets. Oh and they still want him fired even if he does that. It's completely irrational.
Monte should have traded all the vets he didn't see as part of the future, fired Walton and hired his guy before the season. The new coach would have gotten a pass for the poor record because they were young and rebuilding. We would have basically guaranteed ourselves a top 5 pick.
At this point, I think its better to ride it out and hit the reset in the offseason. Belly and at least one more vet probably needs to be moved at the deadline. Cojo will be gone at the end of the season. There is hope for this franchise if we can hit on our next draft pick, sign a perimeter defender and make a solid trade or two.
Monte should have traded all the vets he didn't see as part of the future, fired Walton and hired his guy before the season. The new coach would have gotten a pass for the poor record because they were young and rebuilding. We would have basically guaranteed ourselves a top 5 pick.
At this point, I think its better to ride it out and hit the reset in the offseason. Belly and at least one more vet probably needs to be moved at the deadline. Cojo will be gone at the end of the season. There is hope for this franchise if we can hit on our next draft pick, sign a perimeter defender and make a solid trade or two.
I'm not sure you can go into the season without some vets. And they are all on one years so that Monte can do serious rebuilding in the next offseason. He basically had a few weeks to prep the draft and a month from that they were playing games.
In all honesty it's on Walton. He knows what the team expects and that he's likely out after this season. He'll get paid for the remaining time on his contract. But if he wants another job, showing that he met the team goals and didn't just go into business for himself means something. It's why Joerger is an assistant and not a head coach right now.
I will agree that some of the fan base's expectations are irrational - as we saw even during the preseason some were screaming about Woodard and Ramsey on the court. Those guys absolutely should get some time since we opted out of the G-League, they can't just do nothing. And many who want a tank just can't stomach the actual product - which is the argument against a process like they did in Philly - would you be willing to just write off 3-4 years of your team - with the first 2 being completely unwatchable product - for a chance to get high picks? Arguably Philly is nowhere near a title and it was a total flop.
Anyhow it all comes back to me that Walton is just doing a poor job with what he has, even if what he has is poor. He is in business for himself and burning bridges with talent the team plans on having around. And that is why I don't think we can keep him here beyond the halfway point.
In all honesty it's on Walton. He knows what the team expects and that he's likely out after this season. He'll get paid for the remaining time on his contract. But if he wants another job, showing that he met the team goals and didn't just go into business for himself means something. It's why Joerger is an assistant and not a head coach right now.
I will agree that some of the fan base's expectations are irrational - as we saw even during the preseason some were screaming about Woodard and Ramsey on the court. Those guys absolutely should get some time since we opted out of the G-League, they can't just do nothing. And many who want a tank just can't stomach the actual product - which is the argument against a process like they did in Philly - would you be willing to just write off 3-4 years of your team - with the first 2 being completely unwatchable product - for a chance to get high picks? Arguably Philly is nowhere near a title and it was a total flop.
Anyhow it all comes back to me that Walton is just doing a poor job with what he has, even if what he has is poor. He is in business for himself and burning bridges with talent the team plans on having around. And that is why I don't think we can keep him here beyond the halfway point.
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