Tyrese Haliburton
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
Yep.
Buddy has an elite in-demand skill, but is not a well-rounded player and seems to do little that "doesn't show up in the stat sheet".
Haliburton doesn't have an obvious elite skill (perhaps passing) but is very well-rounded, does a ton of stuff that doesn't show up in the stat sheet, seems to know how to be in the right place at the right time, does a good job taking care of the ball and making smart plays, and just generally sparkplugs the team.
So, Haliburton is already more effective at quite a few important aspects of basketball, but he's not the floor-spreading shooter that Buddy is, and I don't think he ever will be. Neither of them is a post player, a post defender, a rebounder, or a shot blocker. There are a lot of roles in the NBA, and you have five players on the court to fill them. In the end, I think a successful modern NBA team needs to have both players - a Haliburton and a Buddy - as well as players to fill several other roles.
I think the problem that people have with Buddy is his contract. Sure, he's in a shooting slump, but I think most of us here expect him to shake out of it eventually. If Buddy was being paid 2/3 of what he's actually getting, people would probably see him in a different light. Rather than look at Buddy in terms of what he brings to the team, he is being seen in the light of how he restricts team flexibility on the salary end of things. But, hey, now we've got Haliburton on the cheap for the duration of Buddy's contract, so it might not be such a big deal to have paid the "Sacramento Tax" to keep our elite shooter.
This conversation may take an interesting twist in a few years when Buddy is making under $20M and Fox is making over $30M.
Buddy has an elite in-demand skill, but is not a well-rounded player and seems to do little that "doesn't show up in the stat sheet".
Haliburton doesn't have an obvious elite skill (perhaps passing) but is very well-rounded, does a ton of stuff that doesn't show up in the stat sheet, seems to know how to be in the right place at the right time, does a good job taking care of the ball and making smart plays, and just generally sparkplugs the team.
So, Haliburton is already more effective at quite a few important aspects of basketball, but he's not the floor-spreading shooter that Buddy is, and I don't think he ever will be. Neither of them is a post player, a post defender, a rebounder, or a shot blocker. There are a lot of roles in the NBA, and you have five players on the court to fill them. In the end, I think a successful modern NBA team needs to have both players - a Haliburton and a Buddy - as well as players to fill several other roles.
I think the problem that people have with Buddy is his contract. Sure, he's in a shooting slump, but I think most of us here expect him to shake out of it eventually. If Buddy was being paid 2/3 of what he's actually getting, people would probably see him in a different light. Rather than look at Buddy in terms of what he brings to the team, he is being seen in the light of how he restricts team flexibility on the salary end of things. But, hey, now we've got Haliburton on the cheap for the duration of Buddy's contract, so it might not be such a big deal to have paid the "Sacramento Tax" to keep our elite shooter.
This conversation may take an interesting twist in a few years when Buddy is making under $20M and Fox is making over $30M.
I'm actually perfectly ok keeping Hali off the bench (ala James Harden rookie year) role and keeping him in a 30-32 minute range this season until we figure out what to do with Buddy. But the CoJo training wheels need to come off and he more than showed us he needs to be running the 2nd unit while CoJo sits in the corner (unfortunately we all know CoJo won't get benched with Walton here).
Buddy’s contract hurts his trade value, but it has no impact on my assessment of his play. When he’s on, he’s an elite 3 point shooter. He provides minimal value in other aspects of the game when compared to other two guards. Any other two guard can provide the same amount of assists or rebounds—likely more. He is a below average perimeter defender and always will be, because of his slow feet and average length for the 2 spot. What really kills him is his turnovers and boneheaded plays. There are games where he has more turnovers than 3s made or more turnovers in one game than Hali has made all year. His turnovers n dumb plays are why his efficiency is so low. And efficiency matters, because most games are decided by a few buckets.
Hali is basically playing as well as Doug during the glory years. And there will hopefully be much more to come—I believe so, because once he adds bulk, he’ll be able to score inside thru contact. The future is bright.
Hali is already better than Buddy is now and will continue to get much better. Only a matter of time before Hali starts over Buddy.
Hali is basically playing as well as Doug during the glory years. And there will hopefully be much more to come—I believe so, because once he adds bulk, he’ll be able to score inside thru contact. The future is bright.
Hali is already better than Buddy is now and will continue to get much better. Only a matter of time before Hali starts over Buddy.
Even if he is a one trick pony, that trick is worth a lot of cash. See Bertans and Joe Harris.
I keep Haliburton in the second unit this year just to keep the peace. Starting is mostly an ego thing, it’s minutes and closing that matters.
Once we start winning consistently, lineups will take care of themselves.
I keep Haliburton in the second unit this year just to keep the peace. Starting is mostly an ego thing, it’s minutes and closing that matters.
Once we start winning consistently, lineups will take care of themselves.
I would say Tyrese has elite characteristics that can't be easily measured, hand eye coordination, defensive positioning and foresight. Excellent awareness... things that cannot be necessarily taught or practiced to be improved. His passing I would definitely say is elite though, vision and timing are by far impressive for a 20 YEAR OLD ROOKIE!! Just his smarts will let him have a very long NBA career.
Nice touch around the rim too.
A player you can ALWAYS rely on is a very very nice thing to have
Nice touch around the rim too.
A player you can ALWAYS rely on is a very very nice thing to have
I think it's hard to argue that Fox is a better pure facilitator than Haliburton. I know it's early, but the kids court vision is advanced That being said there is no denying how well this team plays when they are pushing the pace and Fox is in his bag. Him going full speed to the hoop typically always leads to one or two guys being open.
I don't see why they can't both share point responsibilities though. Fox can bring the ball up and try to push the pace. If there is nothing he can do he can just dump it off to Haliburton who seems more comfortable in a half court set anyway. They did that quite a bit in the first couple of games and it seemed to work out fine.
I don't see why they can't both share point responsibilities though. Fox can bring the ball up and try to push the pace. If there is nothing he can do he can just dump it off to Haliburton who seems more comfortable in a half court set anyway. They did that quite a bit in the first couple of games and it seemed to work out fine.
As of today he is the clear-cut rookie of the year. He leads all rookies in Win Shares and in VORP, he is #1 in BPM for any player with more than 10 minutes of play, and leads in WS/48 for any player with 60+ minutes. On top of that he's second in MPG, second in APG, and third in PPG. If he stays healthy and plays exactly as he has been, it shouldn't be even close.