Woj: Kings let Bogi go
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
Hold up there! I’m not suggesting that at all. In fact, I’ve been staunchly defending the new GM/FO against unfair and unwarranted comparisons to past regimes.
When I say Vivek’s way isn’t working, I’m referring to his meddlesome ways. His involvement in basketball decisions of any kind. And, apparently, now his son’s too.
If he indeed is interfering in any way with Monte McNair doing the job he was hired to do, it’s a problem. And exactly what hasn’t worked in the past and has shown no signs of working EVER.
Hope that clarifies my position.
When I say Vivek’s way isn’t working, I’m referring to his meddlesome ways. His involvement in basketball decisions of any kind. And, apparently, now his son’s too.
If he indeed is interfering in any way with Monte McNair doing the job he was hired to do, it’s a problem. And exactly what hasn’t worked in the past and has shown no signs of working EVER.
Hope that clarifies my position.
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I agree with most of this, but let’s be clear, Buddy played some shi*acular hoops last year. Got benched for it and instead of embracing his new role, he became a whiney siren. Only reason to not trade Buddy is his contract declines, so there is a chance he’ll have more value next year.
As for Vlade and Luka, I think it was Brandon Williams sucking as a talent evaluator and Luka not wanting to be in Sacramento. Williams was a joke and Vlade did four consistent things as a GM: preferred bigs, over paid for aging vets, pick picked only guys who worked out in Sac (read: want to play in Sac), and acquired thousands of second round picks. He was horrible as a GM.
As for Vlade and Luka, I think it was Brandon Williams sucking as a talent evaluator and Luka not wanting to be in Sacramento. Williams was a joke and Vlade did four consistent things as a GM: preferred bigs, over paid for aging vets, pick picked only guys who worked out in Sac (read: want to play in Sac), and acquired thousands of second round picks. He was horrible as a GM.
Buddy: Hardest worker on the team, known for his work ethic. Says some stupid things publicly when asked about it by media, continues to speak freely when media digs for story. Over 3 seasons with team has made countless big shots and plays (including one clutch block). Always maintained good relationships with team mates including being close friends with the very guy taking his starting position. Up in record books as a 3 point shooter, complains about lack of catch and shoot opportunities in one year under Walton where team grossly underperforms. Leading scorer on Kings team that won most games in a decade. Wanted more money for himself, wanted bigger role, recent indications via social media suggest he wants to move on from Kings. Gets COVID probably from playing basketball and doesn't do very well in bubble to begin with.
Walton: needs a 3 in end-game situation, leaves 3 point champ on bench. Makes CoJo spot up 3 point shooter.
Bogi: wants more money for himself and bigger role. Recent indications suggest he wants to move on from Kings. Goes 1-15 in one bubble game fighting for playoffs.
Some fans: ohmagawd Buddy Hield is a long term team cancer who's going to bring Haliburton to dark side. NOT CLUTCH AT ALL! RESIGN BOGI!
FWIW, Buddy's bubble stats per 36 excluding first game: 25.5 / 4 /3.5, 46%FG, 42%3P. Bogi per 36 (all games): 22/5/5, 47%FG, 44%3P; excluding first game (was a good one for Bogi): 21/ 5.5 / 6, 46%FG, 42%3P.
Walton: needs a 3 in end-game situation, leaves 3 point champ on bench. Makes CoJo spot up 3 point shooter.
Bogi: wants more money for himself and bigger role. Recent indications suggest he wants to move on from Kings. Goes 1-15 in one bubble game fighting for playoffs.
Some fans: ohmagawd Buddy Hield is a long term team cancer who's going to bring Haliburton to dark side. NOT CLUTCH AT ALL! RESIGN BOGI!
FWIW, Buddy's bubble stats per 36 excluding first game: 25.5 / 4 /3.5, 46%FG, 42%3P. Bogi per 36 (all games): 22/5/5, 47%FG, 44%3P; excluding first game (was a good one for Bogi): 21/ 5.5 / 6, 46%FG, 42%3P.
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Disingenuous to say the least. You've listed some of Buddy's clutch plays (not his mistakes though) and none of Bogi's. First case of bias. Then speculation on Covid (and not really relevant). Downplayed his constant social media antics to a mere "social media indications".
The Buddy vs Bogi can really be simplified down to this:
Buddy
Pros:
Elite shooter
Declining contract
May be attractive trading piece down the line
Solid teammate
Cons:
Low IQ / Costly TOs
Below average defender
Can't keep his foot out of his mouth on social media (not a once off, he is regularly sending cryptic shots), this is unprofessional and has likely decreased his value around the league which has resulted in the opposite of what he wants
Potentially in the way of Haliburton (depending on Bogi)
Bogi:
Pros:
Good shooter, not elite like Buddy
Solid all around game
Clutch
Solid teammate
May be attractive trading piece down the line
Cons:
Below average defender
Doesn't move the needle for a real like us
In the way of Haliburton (depending on Buddy)
Again, I do not feel strongly on keeping Bogi. If we do match I hope it's to trade him. I want both Buddy and Bogi gone. But I hate this twisting of reality.
The vast majority here want Bogi gone, fair enough. Many of those people are not content with stating they want him gone for the benefit of the team, they are intent on creating a narrative where Bogi has been just as unprofessional as Buddy in the media (he hasn't). Buddy would likely be on another team (speculation on my part but not a stretch) if he hadn't tanked his own value by coming across as a primadonna on social media.
BTW I do agree with you on Walton and his misuse of Buddy. Cojo needs to be gone also.
The Buddy vs Bogi can really be simplified down to this:
Buddy
Pros:
Elite shooter
Declining contract
May be attractive trading piece down the line
Solid teammate
Cons:
Low IQ / Costly TOs
Below average defender
Can't keep his foot out of his mouth on social media (not a once off, he is regularly sending cryptic shots), this is unprofessional and has likely decreased his value around the league which has resulted in the opposite of what he wants
Potentially in the way of Haliburton (depending on Bogi)
Bogi:
Pros:
Good shooter, not elite like Buddy
Solid all around game
Clutch
Solid teammate
May be attractive trading piece down the line
Cons:
Below average defender
Doesn't move the needle for a real like us
In the way of Haliburton (depending on Buddy)
Again, I do not feel strongly on keeping Bogi. If we do match I hope it's to trade him. I want both Buddy and Bogi gone. But I hate this twisting of reality.
The vast majority here want Bogi gone, fair enough. Many of those people are not content with stating they want him gone for the benefit of the team, they are intent on creating a narrative where Bogi has been just as unprofessional as Buddy in the media (he hasn't). Buddy would likely be on another team (speculation on my part but not a stretch) if he hadn't tanked his own value by coming across as a primadonna on social media.
BTW I do agree with you on Walton and his misuse of Buddy. Cojo needs to be gone also.
Not bias, just focusing specifically on the areas that apparently Buddy is so evil and bad at. Point is actually the reverse, it wasn't to say that Bogi is better or worse than Buddy, it's more calling out the lack of talking about Buddy's good points in making some of these judgements while conveniently ignoring where Bogi has fallen short. How has Buddy come across as a primadonna on social media aside from liking some posts? He hasn't actually made any Twitter posts of his own really calling for anything yknow. No snake in the grass, no Kyrie-like posts taking shots at people. That I remember at least. And why is Bogi clutch but Buddy not? I have never had the impression of Bogi being a clutch player except for ONE Lakers game winner.
Like you said, I'm really not even interested in the discussion of who is a better player because they're both likely not the solution to the team's future. But just as you take offense at my post seeming disingenuous, I take offense when people suddenly make it sound like Buddy is an evil team cancer when that simply has not been his reputation.
Like you said, I'm really not even interested in the discussion of who is a better player because they're both likely not the solution to the team's future. But just as you take offense at my post seeming disingenuous, I take offense when people suddenly make it sound like Buddy is an evil team cancer when that simply has not been his reputation.
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Agreed.
Everything I've read and heard is that Buddy is a good teammate, the players like him and is a good guy in general. He simply speaks his mind and is his own advocate. He's honest.
Every NBA player has a high opinion of themselves and wants to start. Buddy and Bogi included. Bogi may let his agent slip little complaints to the Serbian media so he can act like he's never said a negative word himself, but we're not in this situation if Bogi was content and humble.
Everything I've read and heard is that Buddy is a good teammate, the players like him and is a good guy in general. He simply speaks his mind and is his own advocate. He's honest.
Every NBA player has a high opinion of themselves and wants to start. Buddy and Bogi included. Bogi may let his agent slip little complaints to the Serbian media so he can act like he's never said a negative word himself, but we're not in this situation if Bogi was content and humble.
I personally don't have a problem with either of them wanting to start and get paid. I don't think anyone does (apart from some who think Bogi screwed us over by taking the best offer).
I do have a problem with Buddy's social media antics. That is not the same thing as him speaking his mind or wanting to start. It's immature and has a real life effect on his value around the league. Teams notice that. Go to other teams forums and see how they view Buddy - most places think he's a diva who's not good enough to dictate where he goes, especially after just signing a big contract. You can say that Bogi releases his info through serbian media, and while that may or may not be true, it is the standard way of doing these things. I would not have an issue if there were just rumblings in the media that Buddy wanted to start, or leave, or whatever (put out by Buddy's camp). It's the childish antics on social media I have a problem with because it tanks his value. You can also argue that it doesn't matter what other fans think, but guess what, perception is reality and Buddy's behaviour is scrutinised not just by fans but also by GMs.
I do have a problem with Buddy's social media antics. That is not the same thing as him speaking his mind or wanting to start. It's immature and has a real life effect on his value around the league. Teams notice that. Go to other teams forums and see how they view Buddy - most places think he's a diva who's not good enough to dictate where he goes, especially after just signing a big contract. You can say that Bogi releases his info through serbian media, and while that may or may not be true, it is the standard way of doing these things. I would not have an issue if there were just rumblings in the media that Buddy wanted to start, or leave, or whatever (put out by Buddy's camp). It's the childish antics on social media I have a problem with because it tanks his value. You can also argue that it doesn't matter what other fans think, but guess what, perception is reality and Buddy's behaviour is scrutinised not just by fans but also by GMs.
This is correct. It is not a coincidence that Scott Perry was offering us Zinger for Fox shortly after that Madrid dinner. Face of franchise decisions are made by the owner—Vlade’s role was simply to provide counsel. Vivek chose Fox over Luka. Which I am fine with, but I wish he’d come out and own it. Now, Aneel pretty publicly wanted Luka over Fox—so there is the history of the last time Vivek did not follow his son’s advice. Incidentally, Vivek told Carmichael that Aneel’s “superpower is to know who is going to be successful”.
I can understand and accept this viewpoint. Buddy’s media stuff makes me roll my eyes, but doesn't upset me the way it does others.
That comes down to wanting a player to conform to a certain way of being. They're all individuals. Kevin Durant is extremely immature, but again, I roll my eyes and then appreciate his on court play.
That comes down to wanting a player to conform to a certain way of being. They're all individuals. Kevin Durant is extremely immature, but again, I roll my eyes and then appreciate his on court play.
No.
There are at least five examples of him liking posts, comments etc of him going to Philly or Dallas. He's fully aware these will be picked up on, and they have been. I believe he has also left some cryptic comments on fan posts too which just adds fuel to the fire. He knows exactly what he's doing.
There was also a report out last week that he prefers Dallas to Philly as a trade destination. Now maybe that was just the media and wasn't actually his doing, but given his form, I would not be surprised. That garnered widespread ridicule as he is no position to be choosing where he goes.
You can argue that liking comments and posts isn't a big deal. That's true to an extent. But it's not irrelevant and it 100% hurts his trade value, not the other way around.
There are at least five examples of him liking posts, comments etc of him going to Philly or Dallas. He's fully aware these will be picked up on, and they have been. I believe he has also left some cryptic comments on fan posts too which just adds fuel to the fire. He knows exactly what he's doing.
There was also a report out last week that he prefers Dallas to Philly as a trade destination. Now maybe that was just the media and wasn't actually his doing, but given his form, I would not be surprised. That garnered widespread ridicule as he is no position to be choosing where he goes.
You can argue that liking comments and posts isn't a big deal. That's true to an extent. But it's not irrelevant and it 100% hurts his trade value, not the other way around.
To be clear, it's not that I think its a huge crime or immoral. It bothers me because it's dumb and hurts his value. If he wants out, cool, do it behind closed doors and see ya later. The social media stuff just hurts his value and makes him harder to trade. And the problem is I think Buddy just isn't smart enough to realise that.
It's not just that though. KD is exactly as you described but he's good enough that you put up with it. Buddy doesn't have that luxury, teams won't overlook his reputation if he develops one.
I personally don't care what players do on their own time or want them to conform. I just don't want them tanking their trade value.
It's not just that though. KD is exactly as you described but he's good enough that you put up with it. Buddy doesn't have that luxury, teams won't overlook his reputation if he develops one.
I personally don't care what players do on their own time or want them to conform. I just don't want them tanking their trade value.
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Just off the top of my head, you should at least remember these:
With the score tied vs Warriors and about 20 seconds left, he hit a drive over Draymond for the lead, grabed a defensive board on next possesion, and then 2 free throws to end the game.
Down 2 to OKC with also about 20 seconds left, he hit a 3 to take the lead by 1. Holmes than had a great defensive play to retain the lead and win.
He hit a winner against Memphis in an ISO drawn up for him.
With the score tied vs Warriors and about 20 seconds left, he hit a drive over Draymond for the lead, grabed a defensive board on next possesion, and then 2 free throws to end the game.
Down 2 to OKC with also about 20 seconds left, he hit a 3 to take the lead by 1. Holmes than had a great defensive play to retain the lead and win.
He hit a winner against Memphis in an ISO drawn up for him.
well it is also hurting the team if it’s reached the point teammates would rather be gone. You have to ask yourself who is more likely to help Haliburton reach his potential and be willing to come off the bench when or if he is ready to start next year.....
Buddy? I think we know this answer
Bogi? I don’t recall him not accepting his role
Buddy? I think we know this answer
Bogi? I don’t recall him not accepting his role
Bogi’s camp has let it be known he doesn’t want to be here if he’s not starting/Buddy is here.....and no, I’m not going to go find the link. They didn’t come out and have a press conference to announce it but it’s been alluded to more than once. Neither Bogi or Buddy have worked very hard to accept a role for the betterment Of the team and Walton has a hand in this as he’s the guy steering the ship and he sucks at it.
The longer we wait the more I feel we will not accept the contract. Teams seem to be moving fast on transactions, and if there are no viable trade options for Chavano (per Amick) then all we can do is wait for more rosters to fill up.
I say Chavano because he's way too petty to be anyone's Buddy.
Good luck finding playing time in Atl Bogi. Teams think he's a secondary ball-handler; he is not though. As stated he's pound the ball, drive into defender (cut-off) pound the ball, head down, not looking for teammates, cut off again, shot clock running down, forced shot, CLANK.
I'm ready to move on from both, see what (Ty)Rese can do, and see if Woodard can defend at the next level.
I say Chavano because he's way too petty to be anyone's Buddy.
Good luck finding playing time in Atl Bogi. Teams think he's a secondary ball-handler; he is not though. As stated he's pound the ball, drive into defender (cut-off) pound the ball, head down, not looking for teammates, cut off again, shot clock running down, forced shot, CLANK.
I'm ready to move on from both, see what (Ty)Rese can do, and see if Woodard can defend at the next level.