TDDS - 2020 Shelter-in-Place on a Desert Island Music Draft - BONUS 5

[pdxKingsFan]

I really want to pick the new X album but I can't bring myself to do it a week after it's release. There's also one album I for sure had slotted in when I decided the last third of my draft would be all newer albums and then I realized I had not picked my favorite Portland band. So with that, my final pick is going to be...
The Thermals - Desperate Ground

I had a hard time choosing one album from this band and I think what ultimately did this one for me is the opener, Born to Kill. They're poppy, they're punky, the songs are short and catchy and I can listen to a whole album on my bike commute home or a lunch walk. There's a certain appreciation for that, I had more albums in the ~25 minute range in the first draft.

Besides the opener I really like the middle section of this album a lot particularly the 4-song stretch from The Sword by My Side that runs through to The Howl of the Winds and Our Love Survives is a quite a fitting closer to an album that seems to conjure up a lot of violent imagery start to finish.

Track List
1. Born to Kill
2. You Will Be Free
3. The Sunset
4. I Go Alone
5. The Sword by My Side
6. You Will Find Me
7. Faces Stay with Me
8. The Howl of the Winds
9. Where I Stand
10. Our Love Survives

 

[whitechocolate]

OK, maybe the issue is that I expect music to be, well, musical. Even if confrontational, I would like to think I could recognize it as music. And at least some of what has been presented here as "music" isn't, at least to my untrained heathen ears.



This is a perfect example (from the last selection made). I didn't listen to the whole 16+ minutes by any means, but skipped through at maybe 1-2 minute intervals and listened for a bit each time for anything that sounded like music. I heard stuff that sounds like special effects, but not music. And hey, if that works for you, fine! But nothing I heard in there matches the definition of music in wikipedia:



So, if you omit all of those elements (other than dynamics, I guess), is it still "music"? To me, no. And that isn't to say others might feel differently. I am admittedly not someone who appreciates many forms of "art". I have no musical talent and people always tell me to stop singing whenever I start. Maybe that is one reason my musical tastes are rather pedestrian, who knows?

If the example above rocks your boat, more power to you! I'm not putting it down, I just don't recognize it as what it reputes itself to be. I don't hear "music" when I hear that. It doesn't do anything for me. Actually, it does something - makes me want to listen to something else. And maybe my musical selections do that to others - obviously Slim doesn't care for my list much. But, different strokes for different folks (as Joan Jett would say).

Music isn't obligated to fit within some narrow construct of 4/4 time signatures, the timbres of classical instruments, and pitches that can be found on a piano. Timbre, pitch, time, dynamics, harmony, consonance and dissonance still exist outside of that tiny box. If you're actually going to use wikipedia as a source to define music, which it is hardly the first and last authority on, you may want to read the wikipedia pages on the musical genres you're so quick to dismiss as not music. Because musical compositions can take any form the imagination can conjure, from drone, to ambient, to musique concrète, to free improvisation, or anything else composers of music feel like expressing. Telling a musician that their compositional techniques, structures, and instruments don't count is unappreciative of the unlimited creativity that music has at its source of inspiration.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

@hrdboild's First Five report card:

• Illmatic: Not Nas' best album, in my opinion, but it might be his most important. A nice, quick listen. And pretty much anybody who likes rap agrees that "NY State of Mind" jams.
• Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness: This, on the other had, was not a quick listen. I like the Smashing Pumpkins, but not this much. Like, I have some artists that I can happily listen to every day, but I don't have any artists that I like enough to listen to for two hours straight. And this doesn't even have my favorite Pumpkins song on it.
• The Wild, the Innocent, and the E Street Shuffle: I didn't hate it. I don't **** with the Boss, but this wasn't terrible.
• Fulfillingness' First Finale: Doesn't make my Top 5 Stevie Wonder list, but it's still very good, which is a reflection of how incredible Stevie was, especially in the seventies. And "Creepin'" is an all-time classic.
• Bringing it All Back: I was surprised to learn that I had heard most of these songs, already, despite the fact that I don't really consider myself a Dylan fan. As a former fan of The Tony Kornheiser Show, I found myself frequently exposed to many Dylan songs, "against my will," so to speak. Just goes to show how much you can absorb through osmosis, "It's Alright, Ma" is a bop.

 

[Spike]

I kept searching.
Results. Threads. Nothing. So I picked an album that I go to when I'm not in my metal mood - which is rare, but it does indeed happen. Elton John
is one of my favorites, and I don't think that this album needs much of an explanation.

Elton John - Goodbye Yellow Brick Road

Side one
1. "Funeral for a Friend/Love Lies Bleeding"
2. "Candle in the Wind"
3. "Bennie and the Jets"

Side two
1. "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road"
2. "This Song Has No Title"
3. "Grey Seal"
4. "Jamaica Jerk-Off"
5. "I've Seen That Movie Too"

Side three
1. "Sweet Painted Lady"
2. "The Ballad of Danny Bailey (1909–34)"
3. "Dirty Little Girl"
4. "All the Girls Love Alice"

Side four
1. "Your Sister Can't Twist (But She Can Rock 'n Roll)"
2. "Saturday Night's Alright for Fighting"
3. "Roy Rogers"
4. "Social Disease"
5. "Harmony"

Side one alone is pretty amazing. "Funeral For A Friend/Love Lies Bleeding" is arguably my favorite Elton John song. But there are other hits littered throughout the rest of the album as well. Ending my Island Draft with "Harmony." I'll take it.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Sorry, no more curveballs... With the final pick of the 2020 TDDS Shelter-in-Place on a Desert Island Music Draft, I stay true to my R&B roots:

Lucy Pearl - Lucy Pearl (2000)


Lucy Pearl, as a group, was peak "seemed like a good idea at the time" for late-90s/early-2000s R&B: former Tony! Toni! Toné! frontman Raphael Saadiq, A Tribe Called Quest (you say the whole thang!) DJ/producer Ali Shaheed Muhammad and R&B hitmaker D'Angelo saw the success of the R&B "supergroup" LSG, and said, "Hey, we should do something like that!" Naming their project "Lucy Pearl," they didn't even make it to the starting block, when D'Angelo bailed at the last minute, due to scheduling conflicts. Undeterred, Saadiq suggested that they replace D'Angelo with Dawn Robinson, formerly of the iconic R&B group En Vogue. Robinson would end up leaving the group, after the release of their second single, "Don't Mess with My Man," over what she felt was unfair compensation (which, coincidentally, is also why she left En Vogue). She would subsequently be replaced by the much less-known R&B singer Joi, but the writing was on the wall for this group, and they disbanded in 2001, after just one album.

Like most of the albums on my island, Lucy Pearl is a perfect fit for the musical aesthetic that I was into, at the time, and continues to represent the aesthetic that I am largely into today. The album peaked at #26 on the US charts, and was certified gold by the RIAA.


Track listing (links provided to songs released as singles):

1. "Lucy Pearl's Way"
2. "Trippin'"
3. "Dance Tonight"
4. "Lala"
5. "Everyday"
6. "Can't Stand Your Mother"
7. "Good Love"
8. "Without You"
9. "Don't Mess with My Man"
10. "Hollywood"
11. "Remember The Times"
12. "They Can't"
13. "Do It for the People"
14. "You" (featuring Snoop Dogg and Q-Tip)
15. "Lucy Pearl Tells"
16. "Lala (Room 211 Remix)" (Hidden track)

Favorite non-singles:

• "Lala"
• "Everyday"

Source: Wikipedia

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Side one alone is pretty amazing. "Funeral For A Friend/Love Lies Bleeding" is arguably my favorite Elton John song.

Ditto. Either that or Saturday Night... for me. Hands down.

 

[Warhawk]

Music isn't obligated to fit within some narrow construct of 4/4 time signatures, the timbres of classical instruments, and pitches that can be found on a piano. Timbre, pitch, time, dynamics, harmony, consonance and dissonance still exist outside of that tiny box. If you're actually going to use wikipedia as a source to define music, which it is hardly the first and last authority on, you may want to read the wikipedia pages on the musical genres you're so quick to dismiss as not music. Because musical compositions can take any form the imagination can conjure, from drone, to ambient, to musique concrète, to free improvisation, or anything else composers of music feel like expressing. Telling a musician that their compositional techniques, structures, and instruments don't count is unappreciative of the unlimited creativity that music has at its source of inspiration.

I fully stated that this is the case. Guilty on all counts!

But I also think that just because something is considered sound-based "art" does not make it "music", at least to my ears.

I used wikipedia because it was handy, not because it is the authority. Others say this:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/music

1a: the science or art of ordering tones or sounds in succession, in combination, and in temporal relationships to produce a composition having unity and continuity
b: vocal, instrumental, or mechanical sounds having rhythm, melody, or harmony

https://physics.info/music/

The distinction between music and noise is mathematical form. Music is ordered sound. Noise is disordered sound.

Music and noise are both mixtures of sound waves of different frequencies. The component frequencies of music are discrete (separable) and rational (their ratios form simple fractions) with a discernible dominant frequency. The component frequencies of noise are continuous (every frequency will be present over some range) and random (described by a probability distribution) with no discernible dominant frequency.

Music is ordered. Noise is random.

Noise is what you hear when you tune an analog radio or television to an empty frequency. It's the overall sound of rain falling on leaves, soda bubbling in a glass, air escaping from a tire, or a crowd applauding.

I realize I am way out of my league here in discussing what is music and what is noise art, for lack of a better word. I have no education or background in it. I have no musical talent or training. But the above definitions or descriptions resonate with me in describing what music is, to my ears, and with my understanding. Music, to me, has order and structure and is not just random sounds recorded in a studio placed on a CD.

I don't want to drag this out. I'm not disputing that you (and others) consider this music and thoroughly enjoy it. Good for you, and I hope you continue pursuing your musical tastes! I just don't happen to see it as such.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I am a proud musical simpleton who likes 4/4 and VCVCBC structures (ok sometimes there is a pre-chorus and there's usually a solo or two and an outro) but yeah yeah. Simple. Experimental music isn't really my jam but to not call it music I thought was a bit extra. I know that's not what you guys were going for but it is how it read and my jaw dropped.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Now that all two hundred forty albums (less @Cojc's last two) have been selected, I've been meaning to ask: When I posted my picks, I listed them using the syntax "Artist/Group - Album Title (Year released)." Whoever assumed responsibility for updating the Results thread reversed the first two for all of my picks, except one. I've been wondering whether or not that was deliberate, but I didn't want to send a PM, nor did I want to ask until it was over, because I didn't actually want to know why you were reversing the order, and didn't want to take the chance that you might ask me to change?

 

[pdxKingsFan]

jeez, I noticed year was added since I didn't bother, but didn't notice the swap. I put artist first as well.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I am a proud musical simpleton who likes 4/4 and VCVCBC structures (ok sometimes there is a pre-chorus and there's usually a solo or two and an outro) but yeah yeah. Simple. Experimental music isn't really my jam but to not call it music I thought was a bit extra. I know that's not what you guys were going for but it is how it read and my jaw dropped.

Wait a second... "you guys"? At no point did I state or imply that I didn't think it was music. If anything, I stipulated that it's too advanced for me.

I appreciate @whitechocolate's participation, and contribution to this music draft. It has been very enlightening, and educational. At the very least, I have learned how to better understand and define what my own musical boundaries are. And hey, the old saying goes, "Don't knock it, until you've tried it." If nothing else, I can't say that I haven't tried it, any more.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Wait a second... "you guys"? At no point did I state or imply that I didn't think it was music. If anything, I stipulated that it's too advanced for me.

I appreciate @whitechocolate's participation, and contribution to this music draft. It has been very enlightening, and educational. At the very least, I have learned how to better understand and define what my own musical boundaries are. And hey, the old saying goes, "Don't knock it, until you've tried it." If nothing else, I can't say that I haven't tried it, any more.

Ok fine I should have singled out Warhawk. I know you're giving everyone a good honest take here and that's awesome.

 

[Warhawk]

I appreciate @whitechocolate's participation, and contribution to this music draft. It has been very enlightening, and educational. At the very least, I have learned how to better understand and define what my own musical boundaries are. And hey, the old saying goes, "Don't knock it, until you've tried it." If nothing else, I can't say that I haven't tried it, any more.

Ok fine I should have singled out Warhawk. I know you're giving everyone a good honest take here and that's awesome.

I agree with both of these. I (obviously) hadn't heard of many of the groups or types of music in this draft, and I am glad that I got exposed to it all. I'm not degrading anything here. Like Slim, I guess I just don't understand what is trying to be conveyed. And that is my limitation, not the artist's.

I said, to me, some of this doesn't sound like music. It doesn't carry musical notes or structures as I comprehend or classify them. I also said if you enjoy it, knock yourself out. That's my good honest take.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Ok fine I should have singled out Warhawk. I know you're giving everyone a good honest take here and that's awesome.

Honestly, I felt like I owed it to @Prophetess: Back when I introduced the idea of the first Album Draft, I expected there to be participants with albums I didn't care for, but I was genuinely shocked by how many had artists that I had deadass never even heard of. And, during the original draft, Proph led the clubhouse with a whopping six (how far we've come!). At the time, I didn't even bother listening to any of the music that I was unfamiliar with, and when time came around, I was evaluating the other participants solely on how many of their selections I was familiar with. In hindsight, I have come to believe that that was unfair to the other participants, but particularly to Proph.

I didn't really have the free time to listen to everyone else's selections, the second time I did one of these but, with everybody being sheltered in place, I found myself with plenty of opportunity, and thought I owed it to y'all to at least give everyone else's selections a fair listen. Unfortunately, I waited until too deep in the draft to get started, so I'm not going to have a chance to listen to two hundred twenty other albums, before we have to submit our rankings, but I've done a sight better than in the past, at least.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Now that all two hundred forty albums (less @Cojc's last two) have been selected, I've been meaning to ask: When I posted my picks, I listed them using the syntax "Artist/Group - Album Title (Year released)." Whoever assumed responsibility for updating the Results thread reversed the first two for all of my picks, except one. I've been wondering whether or not that was deliberate, but I didn't want to send a PM, nor did I want to ask until it was over, because I didn't actually want to know why you were reversing the order, and didn't want to take the chance that you might ask me to change?

It was not deliberate. A second glance and I don't know which one I screwed up. Which one is it?

 

[Capt. Factorial]

jeez, I noticed year was added since I didn't bother, but didn't notice the swap. I put artist first as well.

Please direct any errors my way. Sometimes I screw up! Sometimes Wikipedia leads me wrong!

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

It was not deliberate. A second glance and I don't know which one I screwed up. Which one is it?

https://community.kingsfans.com/thr...sic-draft-round-10.73635/page-14#post-1512432

 

[Capt. Factorial]

https://community.kingsfans.com/thr...sic-draft-round-10.73635/page-14#post-1512432

Well, given that "Rapsody" totally sounds like an album title, and there is definitely a rap artist named "Eve", I feel only half bad about this mistake.

 

[hrdboild]

Yeah Capt, I was one of the people posting artist/title backwards too and I was too embarrassed to mention it earlier for some reason but since Slim brought it up, you listed one of my picks in the wrong order too:

https://community.kingsfans.com/thr...sic-draft-round-13.73635/page-17#post-1512688

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Yeah Capt, I was one of the people posting artist/title backwards too and I was too embarrassed to mention it earlier for some reason but since Slim brought it up, you listed one of my picks in the wrong order too:

https://community.kingsfans.com/thr...sic-draft-round-13.73635/page-17#post-1512688

I'm not going to have a chance to fix that right away. You should keep checking until I get it swapped around.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Please direct any errors my way. Sometimes I screw up! Sometimes Wikipedia leads me wrong!

looks good to me. half the time I put wikipedia link the the selection, half the time I forgot or didn't or ? sometimes that happened automagically I guess, then I started doing it on purpose.

 

[whitechocolate]

Music, to me, has order and structure and is not just random sounds recorded in a studio placed on a CD.

I don't want to drag this out.

I don't want to drag this out either. But the notion that anything I've posted is merely random sounds couldn't be further from the truth. These musicians are making the same fundamental, compositional decisions that anybody on your list is making. They purposefully select and compose with timbres, pitches, timing, dynamics, and varying levels of consonance/dissonance like any other musician. And their decisions are guided by their tastes and visions of what they're trying to create, like any other musician. They are just often open to drawing from a wider range of source material, techniques, and structures than what popular music is typically comprised of.

 

[hrdboild]

@hrdboild's First Five report card:

• Illmatic: Not Nas' best album, in my opinion, but it might be his most important. A nice, quick listen. And pretty much anybody who likes rap agrees that "NY State of Mind" jams.
• Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness: This, on the other had, was not a quick listen. I like the Smashing Pumpkins, but not this much. Like, I have some artists that I can happily listen to every day, but I don't have any artists that I like enough to listen to for two hours straight. And this doesn't even have my favorite Pumpkins song on it.
• The Wild, the Innocent, and the E Street Shuffle: I didn't hate it. I don't **** with the Boss, but this wasn't terrible.
• Fulfillingness' First Finale: Doesn't make my Top 5 Stevie Wonder list, but it's still very good, which is a reflection of how incredible Stevie was, especially in the seventies. And "Creepin'" is an all-time classic.
• Bringing it All Back: I was surprised to learn that I had heard most of these songs, already, despite the fact that I don't really consider myself a Dylan fan. As a former fan of The Tony Kornheiser Show, I found myself frequently exposed to many Dylan songs, "against my will," so to speak. Just goes to show how much you can absorb through osmosis, "It's Alright, Ma" is a bop.

To be fair, I don't usually listen to all of Mellon Collie in one go either. I realized once you started your project that was going to be a tall ask but I'm impressed you went through with it anyway! In the pre mp3 days it was disc 1 that I listened to the most but now that I have the whole thing listed as one album on my phone I'll skip around to my favorite tracks. I also think it's one of their hardest albums to listen to since his vocals have the least amount of production "fizz" (for lack of a better word) added to smooth them out. He's at his most caustic here but there are moments on almost every song that reward you for your patience. Kudos for sitting through all 2 hours at once!

It's Alright Ma is also one of my favorites. I really only know that one Nas album which is why I had to pick it first because I had no backup plan if someone else swiped it. One of these days I'll get around to rectifying that.

EDIT - Man, when I write these posts on my phone it's like I loaded the words in a slingshot and just scattered them in the general vicinity of my original point. Going back later and making corrections, I'm surprised sometimes that you all haven't had me thrown out of here until I get my crap together!

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Yeah Capt, I was one of the people posting artist/title backwards too and I was too embarrassed to mention it earlier for some reason but since Slim brought it up, you listed one of my picks in the wrong order too:

https://community.kingsfans.com/thr...sic-draft-round-13.73635/page-17#post-1512688

Is this like that time that Mitch Hedberg called his new girlfriend by his old girlfriend's name?

 

[hrdboild]

Is this like that time that Mitch Hedberg called his new girlfriend by his old girlfriend's name?

Exactly!

 

[Warhawk]

I don't want to drag this out either. But the notion that anything I've posted is merely random sounds couldn't be further from the truth. These musicians are making the same fundamental, compositional decisions that anybody on your list is making. They purposefully select and compose with timbres, pitches, timing, dynamics, and varying levels of consonance/dissonance like any other musician. And their decisions are guided by their tastes and visions of what they're trying to create, like any other musician. They are just often open to drawing from a wider range of source material, techniques, and structures than what popular music is typically comprised of.

OK, I guess I should have said that to me it sounds like random sounds.

 

[VF21]

Now for the special announcement!

It's not over, folks. (Did you really think I'd let go this easily?)

Get ready for the bonus rounds - FIVE ROUNDS OF ANYTHING GOES (within certain restrictions).

Please try not to make this more complicated than it needs to be. For the bonus rounds, you can pick albums that just didn't fit into our original parameters. Sound tracks - okay. Comedy albums - good to go. Multiple artists doing a salute to a particular artist - go for it. Greatest hits - acceptable PROVIDED the artist was not selected in the first 20 rounds. Not acceptable - Time-Life or similar collections. "Leonard Nimoy reads the LA Phone Book" - sure.

Have fun!

 

[Löwenherz]

Now for the special announcement!

It's not over, folks. (Did you really think I'd let go this easily?)

Get ready for the bonus rounds - FIVE ROUNDS OF ANYTHING GOES (within certain restrictions).

Please try not to make this more complicated than it needs to be. For the bonus rounds, you can pick albums that just didn't fit into our original parameters. Sound tracks - okay. Comedy albums - good to go. Multiple artists doing a salute to a particular artist - go for it. Greatest hits - acceptable PROVIDED the artist was not selected in the first 20 rounds. Not acceptable - Time-Life or similar collections. "Leonard Nimoy reads the LA Phone Book" - sure.

Have fun!

I ... kinda don’t have any of those. Do I just abstain, or is this simply a 5 album extension of the draft with looser rules?

 

[VF21]

I ... kinda don’t have any of those. Do I just abstain, or is this simply a 5 album extension of the draft with looser rules?

Five more rounds, with fewer restrictions. Everything that was eligible in 1-20 is still eligible. This just opens it up for people to be able to honor those albums they love that might not have fit into the established slots.

 

[Spike]

In reverse order?