Bagley.

[Groovygreg]

So the vaunted All Star in the making, Adebayo, gets 16 pts., 11 rebs, while Bagley gets 15 pts, 15 rebs. What happened to that 20 and 20 that was predetermined for "Bam" in this game? Bagley will leap-frog Bam, just like he's going to leap-frog Siakam. We've got to keep this thread going for a couple of years. It should be good for a laugh. Thomas Robinson?

We HOPE Bagley is the next Siakam or better(?), but that’s elite company that I’m not extremely confident that Marvin will ultimately attain. Moreover, I don’t think it’s fair to place that kind of expectation on a 20 year-old (not that you are necessarily doing that). I do think that with the physical tools Bagley has, he CAN be a star player - IF he is willing to put in the amount of work that it will require for him to: 1) Get stronger; 2) Defend better; 3) Play smarter; 4) Expand his game. IF he is to become dominant, it’s going to take time and dedication to elevating his performance. He remains a long way off from deserving the label of a “bust”.

 

[gunks]

Ingram was trash for what, 3 seasons? Now he's looking like a max player. It is way too soon to call Bagley a bust. I don't care what the +/- says. That's gonna go way up once he improves on defense, which he will. Bigs take time.

The only thing that worries me with Bagley is his recurrent health issues. But even then, none of the injuries have been major. As mentioned by myself and others in various threads, Marvin may just need to bulk up more to gain durability.

Dude was looking like a 20/10 lock towards the end of last season. I think he'll get back up there, with (slowly but surely) improving defense as this season goes on, health permitting of course.

 

[kb02]

Ingram was trash for what, 3 seasons? Now he's looking like a max player. It is way too soon to call Bagley a bust. I don't care what the +/- says. That's gonna go way up once he improves on defense, which he will. Bigs take time.

The only thing that worries me with Bagley is his recurrent health issues. But even then, none of the injuries have been major. As mentioned by myself and others in various threads, Marvin may just need to bulk up more to gain durability.

Dude was looking like a 20/10 lock towards the end of last season. I think he'll get back up there, with (slowly but surely) improving defense as this season goes on, health permitting of course.

Bagley really needs to evaluate his training regimen and his training team. His body hasn't developed at all since last year. Compare his build to JJJ and Ayton from year 1 to year 2.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Ayton may have been using steroids/PEDs but point taken.

 

[Joshoua]

Yikes.

It'd be a massive win if Bagley ever becomes close to what Bam has been this season. He's one of the best big man playmakers in basketball, posts incredible efficiency (without a 3 ball i may add) on 3rd option USG and makes most of his impact as a lockdown defender and rim protector.

We don’t know how to act sometimes did the same thing when Fox outplayed Morant

 

[Joshoua]

Ingram was trash for what, 3 seasons? Now he's looking like a max player. It is way too soon to call Bagley a bust. I don't care what the +/- says. That's gonna go way up once he improves on defense, which he will. Bigs take time.

The only thing that worries me with Bagley is his recurrent health issues. But even then, none of the injuries have been major. As mentioned by myself and others in various threads, Marvin may just need to bulk up more to gain durability.

Dude was looking like a 20/10 lock towards the end of last season. I think he'll get back up there, with (slowly but surely) improving defense as this season goes on, health permitting of course.

This isn’t true ingram would look good in stretches even last year for like 15 games he averaged 25/5 I remember having to hear it from laker fans. And before that he’d always show signs cause he’d create but wouldn’t finish you could see Ingram oozing with potential. Right now Bagley looks like a great rebounder who will rim run and finish I don’t expect him to be a number 2 option.

 

[dude12]

Ingram was trash for what, 3 seasons? Now he's looking like a max player. It is way too soon to call Bagley a bust. I don't care what the +/- says. That's gonna go way up once he improves on defense, which he will. Bigs take time.

The only thing that worries me with Bagley is his recurrent health issues. But even then, none of the injuries have been major. As mentioned by myself and others in various threads, Marvin may just need to bulk up more to gain durability.

Dude was looking like a 20/10 lock towards the end of last season. I think he'll get back up there, with (slowly but surely) improving defense as this season goes on, health permitting of course.

One of the few fair takes in this thread. Some of these takes. Smh.

 

[NME]

This isn’t true ingram would look good in stretches even last year for like 15 games he averaged 25/5 I remember having to hear it from laker fans. And before that he’d always show signs cause he’d create but wouldn’t finish you could see Ingram oozing with potential. Right now Bagley looks like a great rebounder who will rim run and finish I don’t expect him to be a number 2 option.

And Ingram has always been a big playmaking wing, like most of the league's current stars. It's almost impossible to be a star today without being a creator, which Bagley has shown no signs of.

 

[Joshoua]

And Ingram has always been a big playmaking wing, like most of the league's current stars. It's almost impossible to be a star today without being a creator, which Bagley has shown no signs of.

Exactly!! As is Siakam who people are trying to compare Bagley too as well

 

[Livinthedream]

If you go back and read articles, Ingram was getting labeled a bust by some and and on the verge of bust by others. Same with D'Angelo Russell. Some guys need time.

 

[The Effort Police]

Ingram was trash for what, 3 seasons? Now he's looking like a max player. It is way too soon to call Bagley a bust. I don't care what the +/- says. That's gonna go way up once he improves on defense, which he will. Bigs take time.

The only thing that worries me with Bagley is his recurrent health issues. But even then, none of the injuries have been major. As mentioned by myself and others in various threads, Marvin may just need to bulk up more to gain durability.

Dude was looking like a 20/10 lock towards the end of last season. I think he'll get back up there, with (slowly but surely) improving defense as this season goes on, health permitting of course.

2 seasons and change really, and he still improved on a yearly basis.

But more importantly, Ingram has a valuable skillset even when he was raw and Bagley doesn't.

 

[The Effort Police]

So the vaunted All Star in the making, Adebayo, gets 16 pts., 11 rebs, while Bagley gets 15 pts, 15 rebs. What happened to that 20 and 20 that was predetermined for "Bam" in this game? Bagley will leap-frog Bam, just like he's going to leap-frog Siakam. We've got to keep this thread going for a couple of years. It should be good for a laugh. Thomas Robinson?

Been waiting for this one huh? Adebayo also got something called a win.

People are seeing Vlade and themselves as now vindicated because Bagley played well for the first time in ages in a game they still lost (which tbf was definitely not on him.) but the comparison to these better players is a new one.

Surely you know why Adebayo and Siakam are so valuable today. You can't be this obtuse; you trash Buddy Hield every day for the intangibles and the things beyond the box score so I know you look at the game beyond just counting stats. But when it comes to Bagley you just decide to look at him through the lens of PTS/REB.

 

[The_Jamal]

2 seasons and change really, and he still improved on a yearly basis.

But more importantly, Ingram has a valuable skillset even when he was raw and Bagley doesn't.

Eh, he was still really dusty last year too. There were a couple stats rolling around last year how he had been one of the worst player in NBA history his first 3 years for a guy who played as many minutes and with his USG rate.

He's just taken a massive leap everywhere this season. 3-ball looks good, efficiency is great, he's nearly doubled his assist rate this season.

 

[Gguod]

The reason Ingram wasnt contributing to winning his first couple of seasons was that he couldnt shoot the three and he took low efficency contested isolation shots. He always had the ability to be the switchable wing defender with ability to create offense. Thats extremely valuable if you can do that AND shoot threes. Definetly more valuable than being a defensively limited big man that doesnt really stretch the floor.

Ingram tweaked his jump shot, now he can shoot threes and suddenly he is a very valuable player. There was a probable path for him to achieve that status. I find it very hard to find a similar path for Bagley. He can be an efficent offensive player if he improves his shot and he is used more as a roll man that takes one dribble max and is a play finisher and only posts up against switches. Being a low bbiq and defensively limited big man that cant create for others just doesnt present a probable path to highly valuable player.

Ingram obviously took a big leap but the things he needed to do to take that leap werent too improbable to achieve. Big man with defensive limitations and no ability to create for others is a harder path to be an effective player that contributes to winning

 

[The Effort Police]

Eh, he was still really dusty last year too. There were a couple stats rolling around last year how he had been one of the worst player in NBA history his first 3 years for a guy who played as many minutes and with his USG rate.

He's just taken a massive leap everywhere this season. 3-ball looks good, efficiency is great, he's nearly doubled his assist rate this season.

Fair enough. I'm just seeing in Ingram even at his worst as a far more valuable player archetype in the league with the better building blocks to put together a special player.

 

[Kings_of_California]

Ingram was trash for what, 3 seasons? Now he's looking like a max player. It is way too soon to call Bagley a bust. I don't care what the +/- says. That's gonna go way up once he improves on defense, which he will. Bigs take time.

The only thing that worries me with Bagley is his recurrent health issues. But even then, none of the injuries have been major. As mentioned by myself and others in various threads, Marvin may just need to bulk up more to gain durability.

Dude was looking like a 20/10 lock towards the end of last season. I think he'll get back up there, with (slowly but surely) improving defense as this season goes on, health permitting of course.

I don't disagree with this, but Ingram's first 3 years were spent in a really strange, semi-dysfunctional environment on some pretty bad teams, with players vying for being "the guy". The Lakers were a disaster and then last year LeBron came and Ingram was overshadowed and such. He was in a difficult place to start his career. I'm not saying his subpar production wasn't his own doing, after all he's the one on the court. But he wasn't put in an advantageous position.

Ever since joining the Pelicans and leaving the bright lights of LA, he's had the opportunity to step up as alpha dog and he's flourishing. I worry that Bagley is in a poor environment similar to how Ingram was. This organization is a mess right now.

 

[kb02]

Surely you know why Adebayo and Siakam are so valuable today. You can't be this obtuse; you trash Buddy Hield every day for the intangibles and the things beyond the box score so I know you look at the game beyond just counting stats. But when it comes to Bagley you just decide to look at him through the lens of PTS/REB.

I’m guilty of trashing Buddy for his lack of intangibles and I’ve done the same with Bags, but there are two critical differences between the two—age and experience. Buddy is 27 and has played 3.5 full years. Bags is 20 and has played less than a full year.

That said, staying healthy is a skill and he certainly has failed in that area. His one hand dominance, lack of physical development, blackhole tendencies, a lack of a consistent outside shot, and constant deer in the headlights issues on defense all worry me. The biggest unsaid worry though is the simple fact that he doesn’t make his teammates better. In fact, the only players who do make their teammates better are Fox n Bogs, but neither are world class. Average n inconsistent at best. Perhaps that is the biggest issue this year. The Kings are full of players who do not make their teammates better. That’s on Vlade n Luke.

Ultimately, I’m still high on Bags’ potential, but if we do not see a healthy n noticeable jump in performance by the end of this year, I think it’s fair to question whether his ceiling is that of a Derrick Favors (i.e., a ten yr pro) rather than a future Giannis (a superstar).

 

[Joshoua]

Ingram was brilliant last year when Lebron was hurt and we know Lebron makes you a 3D player if you’re not wade or Irving. Ingram always would show flashes but never put it together I wouldn’t compare him to Bagley cause ingram always flashed 1on1 breakdown skills

 

[kingsboi]

So the vaunted All Star in the making, Adebayo, gets 16 pts., 11 rebs, while Bagley gets 15 pts, 15 rebs. What happened to that 20 and 20 that was predetermined for "Bam" in this game? Bagley will leap-frog Bam, just like he's going to leap-frog Siakam. We've got to keep this thread going for a couple of years. It should be good for a laugh. Thomas Robinson?

you left out the 5 assists Bam got as well. Bam Bam is a stud, he's gotten better every season. Props to Miami and their ability to find gems. Nunn is another.

 

[VF21]

One of the few fair takes in this thread. Some of these takes. Smh.

General comment (merely using your quote since it triggered the thought):

There are some people who cannot stand to see any praise of Bagley. It's almost as though they think it's being disloyal to another player. By this time, however, we can all pretty much see those for whom one side of the fence or the other is more important than anything else. Hopefully there will soon come a time when that no longer matters.

 

[Kingster]

Yikes.

It'd be a massive win if Bagley ever becomes close to what Bam has been this season. He's one of the best big man playmakers in basketball, posts incredible efficiency (without a 3 ball i may add) on 3rd option USG and makes most of his impact as a lockdown defender and rim protector.

Stay tuned. This is going to be a lot fun.

 

[Kingster]

you left out the 5 assists Bam got as well. Bam Bam is a stud, he's gotten better every season. Props to Miami and their ability to find gems. Nunn is another.

Where was that 20 and 20? He only missed 20 rebounds by 80%. Just think, if Bam can't show his stuff now against Bagley, it doesn't look too good for him in future matchups, kingsboi. You better get out now while the getting is good. The longer you wait to get on the Bagley train the worse it's going to be. Think about it. Bagley or Bam? Bam or Bagley? This is the time to decide.

 

[kingsboi]

Where was that 20 and 20? He only missed 20 rebounds by 80%. Just think, if Bam can't show his stuff now against Bagley, it doesn't look too good for him in future matchups, kingsboi. You better get out now while the getting is good. The longer you wait to get on the Bagley train the worse it's going to be. Think about it. Bagley or Bam? Bam or Bagley? This is the time to decide.

he still has an opportunity to get his 20 20 game, they meet one more time. Why is it time to decide? Bam is the better player right now. Bagley has a lot to work on before he's as good as Bam.

 

[steelevt]

I keep seeing if Bagley ends up like siakam, I’ll be thrilled. Or i wish Bagley ends up as good as Bam. Honest question. Is this true? Cuz the majority of posts seem to be unless Bagley is a superstar or generational talent, Vlade was a fool for choosing him over Luka. Personally. If we end up with a multiple all star who can be a first or second option (ie bosh or more recently bam or siakam), I’ll be ok or at least it’ll soften the blow. I don’t want to derail the thread and make it another Luka vs Bagley thread that gets locked up, but I’m of the thinking you don’t have to choose one or the other. You can hope both do well. So if in the end we passed up on lebron for bosh or passed on Jordan and end up with Olajuwon, are you guys ok with it?

 

[VF21]

I keep seeing if Bagley ends up like siakam, I’ll be thrilled. Or i wish Bagley ends up as good as Bam. Honest question. Is this true? Cuz the majority of posts seem to be unless Bagley is a superstar or generational talent, Vlade was a fool for choosing him over Luka. Personally. If we end up with a multiple all star who can be a first or second option (ie bosh or more recently bam or siakam), I’ll be ok or at least it’ll soften the blow. I don’t want to derail the thread and make it another Luka vs Bagley thread that gets locked up, but I’m of the thinking you don’t have to choose one or the other. You can hope both do well. So if in the end we passed up on lebron for bosh or passed on Jordan and end up with Olajuwon, are you guys ok with it?

We have threads that address all the ramifications of the draft pick. This one is to discuss Bagley's performance and progress. Posts that drift away from that premise will be moved or deleted.

 

[whozit]

I keep seeing if Bagley ends up like siakam, I’ll be thrilled. Or i wish Bagley ends up as good as Bam. Honest question. Is this true? Cuz the majority of posts seem to be unless Bagley is a superstar or generational talent, Vlade was a fool for choosing him over Luka. Personally. If we end up with a multiple all star who can be a first or second option (ie bosh or more recently bam or siakam), I’ll be ok or at least it’ll soften the blow. I don’t want to derail the thread and make it another Luka vs Bagley thread that gets locked up, but I’m of the thinking you don’t have to choose one or the other. You can hope both do well. So if in the end we passed up on lebron for bosh or passed on Jordan and end up with Olajuwon, are you guys ok with it?

I'll tell you what I will be okay with. Basketball is entertainment. If he is a part of the Kings turning things around, getting to the playoffs consistently and being competitive, I'm okay with it. At the end of the day, even if the Kings win the whole thing, five days out of seven I will be getting up and going to work.

 

[gunks]

And Ingram has always been a big playmaking wing, like most of the league's current stars. It's almost impossible to be a star today without being a creator, which Bagley has shown no signs of.

I agree, and this is the main reason I hated the Bagley pick.

But he's here now, so I'm trying to see the silver lining. He may never be a star, but I don't see him washing out of the league either. If Fox makes the jump, a 20/10 big would be a great running mate.

 

[Tetsujin]

you left out the 5 assists Bam got as well. Bam Bam is a stud, he's gotten better every season. Props to Miami and their ability to find gems. Nunn is another.

The thing is that Bam wasn't this Bam for his first two seasons. He showed the occasional flash, yes, but it took him a couple of years to actually develop and get good, a luxury we apparently aren't going to give to any player on the Kings.

 

[Livinthedream]

The thing is that Bam wasn't this Bam for his first two seasons. He showed the occasional flash, yes, but it took him a couple of years to actually develop and get good, a luxury we apparently aren't going to give to any player on the Kings.

Sac Bee article from Jason Anderson today acknowledged the hate Bagley is getting from fans is what chases players away.

Suffice to say, it's also what can cause draftees to not come in for workouts and withhold medical records in hopes Sacramento passes.

If the Kings are to develop players, what we're going through right now is the process.

 

[VF21]

Sac Bee article from Jason Anderson today acknowledged the hate Bagley is getting from fans is what chases players away.

Suffice to say, it's also what can cause draftees to not come in for workouts and withhold medical records in hopes Sacramento passes.

If the Kings are to develop players, what we're going through right now is the process.

It's sad to see. Having been a Kings fan since 1985, the rush to judgment and animosity shown towards our own players breaks my heart. I blame social media for a lot of it.