Bagley.
- Thread starter sactowndog
- Start date
The sad part about all this talk about Bagley is that nobody is ripping the dude for being picked over other players. He cannot control where he's selected. Its like IT was a steal where he was picked, not based just on his talent and what he was capable of in Boston, but how that talent was viewed through the lens of where he was picked. Bagley is a project, one that has potential to be very good if he improves his game. But that project through the lens of the second pick is another story. I hope he improves to reach his potential, but there's no indication of that happening and we all know this franchise has a horrible track record of developing talent.
If I had the keys to the kingdom, I'd try to move him at the deadline in a package with other guys because I think his value will not be as high as it is right now.
If I had the keys to the kingdom, I'd try to move him at the deadline in a package with other guys because I think his value will not be as high as it is right now.
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I have been wildly disappointed with Bagley’s progress, but I also don’t know what a lot of those numbers even measure. For instance, DefRtg, what goes into that? I know from another thread that Fox is second worst on the team. But, from a coach’s standpoint, Fox is one of our best defenders. So, what’s the measurement? Because then I need to figure out why Fox is an outlier. PIE? How is Reb % measured? I think more context to these measurements would be beneficial to the conversation.
I don't understand how advanced metrics like defensive rating are measured so I won't even approach that subject.
All I will say is that, there's definitely room for improvement and he has the talent to get there, BUT my biggest concern is that I don't think he's going to be able to stay healthy long term. Even last game he tweaked his foot slightly. He's been injured way too many times to start his career.
We can call it freak accidents and the like, but it's an injury nonetheless and he's missed a lot of time on the court. Every time he steps onto the floor I'm beginning to fear injury and that's an awful feeling to have as a spectator.
All I will say is that, there's definitely room for improvement and he has the talent to get there, BUT my biggest concern is that I don't think he's going to be able to stay healthy long term. Even last game he tweaked his foot slightly. He's been injured way too many times to start his career.
We can call it freak accidents and the like, but it's an injury nonetheless and he's missed a lot of time on the court. Every time he steps onto the floor I'm beginning to fear injury and that's an awful feeling to have as a spectator.
He's a project, he needs consistent minutes to develop and he's been constantly injured. Obviously the latter is becoming a huge problem and making the pick look terrible in the shadow of a few guys picked behind him. I don't see any benefit in trading him - he's going to develop from where he is now. He just needs to stay on the court. If he is full strength next year and we steal a good draft pick out of all our misfortune this season, there are worse things that can happen if we look like last year's team.
Defensive rating is a really bad stat and shouldn't be accounted for anything.
Stuff like DRPM, DPIPM, DBPM, etc are much better. Even these are hard to account for as defensive statistics are so much further behind offensive numbers, None of those favor Bagley either in any way, but let's all agree to use good numbers.
Stuff like DRPM, DPIPM, DBPM, etc are much better. Even these are hard to account for as defensive statistics are so much further behind offensive numbers, None of those favor Bagley either in any way, but let's all agree to use good numbers.
One thing I will say is a lot of this has been fragmented from a game sense. Plays 1 game, out for awhile. Plays 6 or 7 games working back to full strength, gets hurt again. Not a lot of consistent role/being healthy at any point in his career. Anytime he starts to get a little momentum and string some good games together, he gets hurt.
His long-term health is something else to discuss, but I'll be really keying in on these last few months if he can stay healthy and how he performs as a key cog over a longer sample. The Free-Throw rate is incredibly concerning and was one of the shining marks of his rookie year that he had the potential to be a lead offensive weapon. Basically, we'll see.
His long-term health is something else to discuss, but I'll be really keying in on these last few months if he can stay healthy and how he performs as a key cog over a longer sample. The Free-Throw rate is incredibly concerning and was one of the shining marks of his rookie year that he had the potential to be a lead offensive weapon. Basically, we'll see.
Agreed. I think defense is really tricky to evaluate because it's so team dependent. Eye test will always be valuable imo in that aspect until we figure out a better way to quantify defensive impact.
Bagley had some good moments in Utah vs Gobert, which might be the absolute worst match-up for him in the NBA. Made plenty of mistakes, but Ingles and Mitchell were just getting free reign wherever they wanted to go on the floor in the PnR.
Bagley had some good moments in Utah vs Gobert, which might be the absolute worst match-up for him in the NBA. Made plenty of mistakes, but Ingles and Mitchell were just getting free reign wherever they wanted to go on the floor in the PnR.
I was not able to watch the game but his rebound numbers yesterday was pretty good. Sometimes the ball bounces right for a player and I don’t expect him to get 15 boards every game.
But what I hope happens is now (hopefully) he stays healthy and continues to make big strides in his game as he did last year.
But what I hope happens is now (hopefully) he stays healthy and continues to make big strides in his game as he did last year.
So the vaunted All Star in the making, Adebayo, gets 16 pts., 11 rebs, while Bagley gets 15 pts, 15 rebs. What happened to that 20 and 20 that was predetermined for "Bam" in this game? Bagley will leap-frog Bam, just like he's going to leap-frog Siakam. We've got to keep this thread going for a couple of years. It should be good for a laugh. Thomas Robinson? 
So the vaunted All Star in the making, Adebayo, gets 16 pts., 11 rebs, while Bagley gets 15 pts, 15 rebs. What happened to that 20 and 20 that was predetermined for "Bam" in this game? Bagley will leap-frog Bam, just like he's going to leap-frog Siakam. We've got to keep this thread going for a couple of years. It should be good for a laugh. Thomas Robinson?
So the vaunted All Star in the making, Adebayo, gets 16 pts., 11 rebs, while Bagley gets 15 pts, 15 rebs. What happened to that 20 and 20 that was predetermined for "Bam" in this game? Bagley will leap-frog Bam, just like he's going to leap-frog Siakam. We've got to keep this thread going for a couple of years. It should be good for a laugh. Thomas Robinson?
It'd be a massive win if Bagley ever becomes close to what Bam has been this season. He's one of the best big man playmakers in basketball, posts incredible efficiency (without a 3 ball i may add) on 3rd option USG and makes most of his impact as a lockdown defender and rim protector.
I'm talking about a bigger sample size than one game. Also defense is very hard to evaluate by simply using eye test unless you are watching replays of the games concentrating on one player at a time. In one defensive possession there are often multiple things that a player has to do besides stopping his man one on one. There are multiple rotations, playing different passing lanes, box outs and executing different on/off ball screen coverages (switch, hedge sag off ect).
Its hard to spot one players performance on all those things in all the possessions. A good bbiq player often executes those things well and that means his team is better defensively when he is on the floor. To me, Bagley hasnt demonstrated that yet in his career and both the film and metrics agree with that.
Its hard to spot one players performance on all those things in all the possessions. A good bbiq player often executes those things well and that means his team is better defensively when he is on the floor. To me, Bagley hasnt demonstrated that yet in his career and both the film and metrics agree with that.