[Game] Bucks @ Kings, Friday Jan. 10, 7 PM PT/10 PM ET

[sactowndog]

We all thought the Kings were going to take a step forward this year and end our exile from the basketball wilderness. It hasn’t happened and we are all going through stages of grief at different rates:
Denial - those in the optimist thread
Anger - those targeting Buddy
Bargaining - those looking for a better draft
Depression - those saying Vlade’s still in
charge
Acceptance - those who have left.

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

To be honest I don’t even think we played bad tonight. We made mistakes, but this wasn’t one of those games we should’ve won but blew it due to low IQ plays. The Bucks are just on an entirely different level. They have the ball movement of the 2014 Spurs with the perimeter defense of those Paul George Pacer teams. It’s just sad to see how far away from being good we actually are when we see what a team like that can do.

 

[steelevt]

No worries, it's time I take a page out of some of the older posters' playbook and get out of here. You yourself have alluded to how things have changed around here and driven many of the old posters away. Have fun in this little b*tching pool we call a forum these days, props for hanging in there.

Honestly, where are you gonna go? I don’t even mean it in a “this place sucks but it’s all you have” type way. I think this is the best kings forum available. StR sucks. Not only is the format crap, but all they do is complain (more than here) about more players, the coach, front office etc. There isn’t as much useful content anymore and they will probably have less in the future. RealGM seems to have less posts or just seems slower or less conversations/discussions. Just because you don’t agree with everyone’s opinions doesn’t mean u have to quit. The main opinion we all have in common is that we want the kings to win. All we can do is discuss, argue and have fun here until that day comes when they win it all.

 

[The_Jamal]

I saw that go on when he was playing too and playing poorly. The second part of your post is true but I'm just asking for consistency.

No doubt Buddy has had a garbage year and deserves a lot of flack. However he's not the only one and that goes for players, coaches, and front office included. Nobody should be off limits.

Richaun Holmes. He's about it though

 

[jellyfish]

Buddy's third quarter killed the Kings and got the Bucks off to on their run, other than Barnes/Bjelly who carried tonight was not really impressed with anyone else.

 

[Albatros]

This is a dead rubber. Were never going to beat teams like this unless everyone plays their best game. Is what it is I guess. Cold world.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

While defense always remains an issue, IMO this team seems to lose games because they can’t score. Every single game they seem to go through extended stretches where they just can’t put the ball in the hoop. And it kills them.

Tonight they did it twice. Got down 19 or so, fought back to retake the lead by 1 then went on another scoring drought that did them in.

A few games back they went nearly 5 minutes w/o scoring. Stretches like that happen far too often.

 

[jellyfish]

While defense always remains an issue, IMO this team seems to lose games because they can’t score. Every single game they seem to go through extended stretches where they just can’t put the ball in the hoop. And it kills them.

Tonight they did it twice. Got down 19 or so, fought back to retake the lead by 1 then went on another scoring drought that did them in.

A few games back they went nearly 5 minutes w/o scoring. Stretches like that happen far too often.

Other than Fox no one else can get to the rim or breakdown a defense (Bagley/Bogdan included) the Kings need a secondary slasher who can create or score at the rim.

 

[Cojc]

They are still my team and although it’s tough to watch some games I will still tune in

 

[kb02]

Other than Fox no one else can get to the rim or breakdown a defense (Bagley/Bogdan included) the Kings need a secondary slasher who can create or score at the rim.

Zach Lavine, who I would trade Buddy for at this very moment.

Lavine has normal size for the 2 spot, elite athleticism, can create his own shot, pass (when he wants to), has above average handles, n can score on three levels. But plays no defense like Buddy n has black hole tendencies, like Buddy.

Buddy is undersized for a 2, has average to below avg athleticism, cannot create his own shot, has poor handles, passes as a last resort, n can score on one level, shooting threes, which he is above average n sometimes elite at doing. To be fair, Buddy is shooting more mid range shots this year, so I’ll preemptively agree that he is a 1.5 level scorer.

 

[ppine]

A good wake up call. The Kings played fine and were soundly beaten in most categories.
It shows how far they have to go to be really competitive.

 

[steelevt]

A good wake up call. The Kings played fine and were soundly beaten in most categories.
It shows how far they have to go to be really competitive.

The thing is, this isn’t news. No one really expected the kings to be a top 4 team in the nba or be able to consistently beat top teams in the nba. I just wanted them to be in the race for a playoff spot this year and build on it next year. Yes I’m a bit disappointed in the team but technically, we are on pace.

 

[Cojc]

I understand what some of you are saying but the stat that upsets me is how we had only 10 free throws at home and no trips to the line for Fox. I know we were out played but slightly in most categories. The same amount of 3’s and only 3 more field goals. That’s 6 points not the lopsided free throw stat line.

 

[sactowndog]

So wonder what’s the point we switch from playing our older guys to make playoffs now and start giving our young guys more time.

Our chance to make a run was the last 15 games and we didn’t play so well against easy teams. We now have the 5th hardest remaining schedule with 3 games each against both LA teams.

 

[ockingsfan]

So wonder what’s the point we switch from playing our older guys to make playoffs now and start giving our young guys more time.

Our chance to make a run was the last 15 games and we didn’t play so well against easy teams. We now have the 5th hardest remaining schedule with 3 games each against both LA teams.

For some reason, this team actually play the tough teams better than the sub-0.500 teams.

I can still see this team making a run for the playoffs this year. We are still only 1 1/2 games from the #8 playoff slot.

I think this year, 40 or 41 wins can get you the 8th seed in the West.

 

[Kingster]

We all thought the Kings were going to take a step forward this year and end our exile from the basketball wilderness. It hasn’t happened and we are all going through stages of grief at different rates:
Denial - those in the optimist thread
Anger - those targeting Buddy
Bargaining - those looking for a better draft
Depression - those saying Vlade’s still in
charge
Acceptance - those who have left.

And then there's the "premature camp" - those making a judgment on a team that is without it's core players. They can still "take a step forward" this year. We've got half the season to go. I don't see how one can be rationally pessimistic about this team until we see Fox, Bagley and most of the rest healthy for a period of 20 games. If after the 20 games they do not play at .500 or better clip, then yeah, I would agree that they have not taken a step forward. But until this team gets a modicum of health for their key players, you're just making a judgment on a limited portion of a lineup, not the real lineup.

 

[Groovygreg]

While defense always remains an issue, IMO this team seems to lose games because they can’t score. Every single game they seem to go through extended stretches where they just can’t put the ball in the hoop. And it kills them.

Tonight they did it twice. Got down 19 or so, fought back to retake the lead by 1 then went on another scoring drought that did them in.

A few games back they went nearly 5 minutes w/o scoring. Stretches like that happen far too often.

Compared to opposing teams, Sacramento gets VERY few easy baskets (lay-ups, back cuts, pick & rolls, alley-oops, etc.) To make matters worse, the Kings have to work inordinately hard in the half-court to get clean looks - which nobody can seem to knock down consistently when they finally get them.

 

[Groovygreg]

And then there's the "premature camp" - those making a judgment on a team that is without it's core players. They can still "take a step forward" this year. We've got half the season to go. I don't see how one can be rationally pessimistic about this team until we see Fox, Bagley and most of the rest healthy for a period of 20 games. If after the 20 games they do not play at .500 or better clip, then yeah, I would agree that they have not taken a step forward. But until this team gets a modicum of health for their key players, you're just making a judgment on a limited portion of a lineup, not the real lineup.

What you are saying is not entirely without merit, but the Kings were once vaunted by more than a few pundits as being a “deep team”. That belief may have served to unfairly skew expectations.

 

[LPKingsFan]

So wonder what’s the point we switch from playing our older guys to make playoffs now and start giving our young guys more time.

What particular substitutions do you have in mind?

 

[Kingster]

What you are saying is not entirely without merit, but the Kings were once vaunted by more than a few pundits as being a “deep team”. That belief may have served to unfairly skew expectations.

Who would believe that the expectations would be for this team to reach the playoffs without Fox and Bagley? Only someone profoundly naive would believe that. What would Dallas be without Doncic & Porzingas, Portland without Lillard and McCollum, Utah without Mitchell and Gobert, Houston without Harden and Westbrook, OKC without Paul and Adams, Denver without Jokic and Murray? We know what GS is without Curry and Thompson. Just a little common sense is required. If you cut the heart out of a team for an extended period, you're going to be severely affected.

 

[sactowndog]

And then there's the "premature camp" - those making a judgment on a team that is without it's core players. They can still "take a step forward" this year. We've got half the season to go. I don't see how one can be rationally pessimistic about this team until we see Fox, Bagley and most of the rest healthy for a period of 20 games. If after the 20 games they do not play at .500 or better clip, then yeah, I would agree that they have not taken a step forward. But until this team gets a modicum of health for their key players, you're just making a judgment on a limited portion of a lineup, not the real lineup.

definitely denial camp......

to not be just snarky.... this team has not played better near term with Bagley. Bagley stops the ball movement and is horrendous defensively. Long term Bagley might make us a better team but currently playing Bagley makes us worse not better.

The schedule only gets much harder from here while other teams like Memphis and San Antonio have an easier schedule.

 

[sactowndog]

What particular substitutions do you have in mind?

Bagley is one but more thinking of minutes for guys like Giles, James and Gabriel

 

[Groovygreg]

Who would believe that the expectations would be for this team to reach the playoffs without Fox and Bagley? Only someone profoundly naive would believe that. What would Dallas be without Doncic & Porzingas, Portland without Lillard and McCollum, Utah without Mitchell and Gobert, Houston without Harden and Westbrook, OKC without Paul and Adams, Denver without Jokic and Murray? We know what GS is without Curry and Thompson. Just a little common sense is required. If you cut the heart out of a team for an extended period, you're going to be severely affected.

“Playoffs?! Playoffs?!” We’re just hoping they can win a game! Lol

 

[Kingster]

definitely denial camp......

to not be just snarky.... this team has not played better near term with Bagley. Bagley stops the ball movement and is horrendous defensively. Long term Bagley might make us a better team but currently playing Bagley makes us worse not better.

The schedule only gets much harder from here while other teams like Memphis and San Antonio have an easier schedule.

Absolutist comments about what Bagley is or is not at this point in his career are laughable. Again, the premature camp rears it head.

 

[bajaden]

We all thought the Kings were going to take a step forward this year and end our exile from the basketball wilderness. It hasn’t happened and we are all going through stages of grief at different rates:
Denial - those in the optimist thread
Anger - those targeting Buddy
Bargaining - those looking for a better draft
Depression - those saying Vlade’s still in
charge
Acceptance - those who have left.

Dam, I feel all those things, where does that leave me? I guess I'm pulling the bandwagon and looking for passengers. It's getting lighter!

definitely denial camp......

to not be just snarky.... this team has not played better near term with Bagley. Bagley stops the ball movement and is horrendous defensively. Long term Bagley might make us a better team but currently playing Bagley makes us worse not better.

The schedule only gets much harder from here while other teams like Memphis and San Antonio have an easier schedule.

Well, to be fair, winning comes from teamwork, and teamwork comes from talent, and familiarity. Throw in a little coaching as well. How many games this year have Bagley and Fox been on the floor together? How many games have Bagley, Fox, and Bogi been on the floor together? Willie is gone, and we have a new center, who was supposed to be our backup. Absolutely nothing has gone the way it was projected to go. Dedmon turned into Dudmon. Buddy left his brain in an airport somewhere during the summer. Bogi should have a red cross on his jersey.

How many games has Joseph started this year? Answer, too many! Alert! He's not a starting PG. He's a very good defender, who pounds the ball on offense, is capable of getting into the lane, but has no idea what to do when he gets there. In short, he's not a play maker. His idea of play making is pounding the ball for half the shot clock then passing to Buddy so he can dribble it around and then force up a bad shot with one tick left on the clock.

Now that's the reality of the situation, and if you want to call that denial, so be it. Sticks and stones and all that! Am I disappointed? Dam right! I hate losing. But at the same time I have to let logic overrule emotion. Denial is continuing to lay on the beach getting a tan when you've been told a tidal wave is coming.

 

[Joshoua]

Zach Lavine, who I would trade Buddy for at this very moment.

Lavine has normal size for the 2 spot, elite athleticism, can create his own shot, pass (when he wants to), has above average handles, n can score on three levels. But plays no defense like Buddy n has black hole tendencies, like Buddy.

Buddy is undersized for a 2, has average to below avg athleticism, cannot create his own shot, has poor handles, passes as a last resort, n can score on one level, shooting threes, which he is above average n sometimes elite at doing. To be fair, Buddy is shooting more mid range shots this year, so I’ll preemptively agree that he is a 1.5 level scorer.

Absolutely not, lavine plays loosing basketball and he’s not even good at that either

 

[ppine]

The Kings don't have a choice of "playing old guys for a chance now, or playing the young guys for the future."
They are going to play their best guys, and still won't have a chance. Not this year. Probably not for a few years.

 

[SLAB]

The Kings don't have a choice of "playing old guys for a chance now, or playing the young guys for the future."
They are going to play their best guys, and still won't have a chance. Not this year. Probably not for a few years.

That right there should probably be a sign it’s time to move on from the average yet non-needle moving vets and play the young guys all of the minutes. What’s the worst thing that happens? They’re still awful? Lol

 

[The Effort Police]

That right there should probably be a sign it’s time to move on from the average yet non-needle moving vets and play the young guys all of the minutes. What’s the worst thing that happens? They’re still awful? Lol

This team doesn't have the ceiling of years past where there were a bunch of boom-bust prospects and it was just Joerger having veteran wet dreams. Who's really there to get minutes? Justin James?

Fox and Bagley are already important to the rotation.

Giles? There's no point thanks to Vlade.

Guy, Swanigan, Gabriel? Yeah, don't care.

 

[ESP47]

Dam, I feel all those things, where does that leave me? I guess I'm pulling the bandwagon and looking for passengers. It's getting lighter!


Well, to be fair, winning comes from teamwork, and teamwork comes from talent, and familiarity. Throw in a little coaching as well. How many games this year have Bagley and Fox been on the floor together? How many games have Bagley, Fox, and Bogi been on the floor together? Willie is gone, and we have a new center, who was supposed to be our backup. Absolutely nothing has gone the way it was projected to go. Dedmon turned into Dudmon. Buddy left his brain in an airport somewhere during the summer. Bogi should have a red cross on his jersey.

How many games has Joseph started this year? Answer, too many! Alert! He's not a starting PG. He's a very good defender, who pounds the ball on offense, is capable of getting into the lane, but has no idea what to do when he gets there. In short, he's not a play maker. His idea of play making is pounding the ball for half the shot clock then passing to Buddy so he can dribble it around and then force up a bad shot with one tick left on the clock.

Now that's the reality of the situation, and if you want to call that denial, so be it. Sticks and stones and all that! Am I disappointed? Dam right! I hate losing. But at the same time I have to let logic overrule emotion. Denial is continuing to lay on the beach getting a tan when you've been told a tidal wave is coming.

Grant was on the radio the other day saying if Fox hadn't been hurt this year, the Kings would have 3 more wins on the season.

Record with Joseph starting 9-11 (with 1 point losses to the Spurs and Boston, plus a 2 point loss to the Lakers)

Record with Fox starting 6-13 (all the close losses have been to bad teams like NO, Minny, Phoenix etc)

Obviously CoJo is not a better player than Fox but there's something very wrong with those numbers. The only good team the Kings have beat while Fox has been on the court this year has been Utah. With CoJo starting they've beat Portland, Boston, Denver, Houston, Dallas and OKC. CoJo's playing style works better with Walton's grind it out style. Since Walton has picked up the pace, the team has looked a bit better with Fox at the helm and playing fast.

Record with Bagley starting 0-3. Record with Bagley playing 2-7.

Those numbers are ugly as well. I'm curious to see how he looks with the step up in tempo on offense.

This season has been a disaster all around. 3 of our top 4 players in VORP are Holmes, Bjelica and Ariza with Fox squeezed in there in 3rd place (would more than likely be 2nd if he hadn't gotten hurt). The future is just not looking real bright right now.