So if it was unanimous that Luka would go 1 or 2 other than for crazy Kings, why did ESPN have him at 4th two weeks before draft. I mean shouldn't the thinking be "Luka is not going to be selected by the crazy Kings, but since we are all unanimous about his worth and since there are no other crazies, we will predict him to go 3rd". yet they somehow predicted him at 4 at that point.
Still defending Vlade? (split from game thread)
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There are so many valid arguments that could be brought to bare to criticize Vlade's decision to pick Bagley, that I do not understand why most posters keep bringing up the one that is not actually true: Total unanimity about Luka's draft position and generational significance with the only contrarian being the Kings. If that were actually the case many things including mock drafts and reaction afterwards would have been much different then they were. If everyone and their mother in the industry considered Luka to be basically the next Lebron, and there were whispers of Kings wanting Bagley at 2, then he would be put no lower than 3 in all the mock drafts. And the draft grade the Kings would have been given for skipping on a consensus Lebron would have been an F. Yet that did not happen. The need to paint this choice with the brush that way exaggerates the truth when the truth is bad enough is baffling to me.
True.
Disagree. He's shown potential, but hasn't proven that his production produces wins, or that he fits within a successful system. Also, the aforementioned alternatives. This one goes under: "TBD"
Jackson isn't helping the Kings. This goes to my point.
See previous comments.
Is there an echo? Where is he in the rotation?
This is my entire point. I really don't care what you think was a "good" pick. I'm talking about lottery picks that DO NOT HELP THE KINGS. So whether or not they seemed like good picks at the time, these players have contributed little to nothing for this franchise. Again, this helps my point.
So far, by your own admission, we have two players out of all of the ones you mentioned currently in a rotation when they happen to not be injured. The rest are either off the team or out of the league, with no much to show for them. Again: helps my point.
While my comments were draft related (as that is how a smaller market team builds talent primarily), the other issue is that for every good move, Vlade has two bad ones. Ariza and Dedmon, for example. He signs a guy like Bogdon but then way over-pays a disappointing Barnes because he's got a crush on him since his Warrior days. Why on earth he went after MLE vets still boggles the mind. Build a "winning culture"? You have to get winning talent first and then show them how to win. We can't even get the first part right because of Vlade.[/quote][/quote][/quote]
Disagree. He's shown potential, but hasn't proven that his production produces wins, or that he fits within a successful system. Also, the aforementioned alternatives. This one goes under: "TBD"
Jackson isn't helping the Kings. This goes to my point.
See previous comments.
Is there an echo? Where is he in the rotation?
This is my entire point. I really don't care what you think was a "good" pick. I'm talking about lottery picks that DO NOT HELP THE KINGS. So whether or not they seemed like good picks at the time, these players have contributed little to nothing for this franchise. Again, this helps my point.
So far, by your own admission, we have two players out of all of the ones you mentioned currently in a rotation when they happen to not be injured. The rest are either off the team or out of the league, with no much to show for them. Again: helps my point.
While my comments were draft related (as that is how a smaller market team builds talent primarily), the other issue is that for every good move, Vlade has two bad ones. Ariza and Dedmon, for example. He signs a guy like Bogdon but then way over-pays a disappointing Barnes because he's got a crush on him since his Warrior days. Why on earth he went after MLE vets still boggles the mind. Build a "winning culture"? You have to get winning talent first and then show them how to win. We can't even get the first part right because of Vlade.[/quote][/quote][/quote]
If Vlade wasn't such a glue-huffing dunce, all we'd be is excited about Giles. Per usual for this place, you blame the fans reacting to #OptionGate and downplaying that it happened.
Do you really think we can pretend to be optimistic about Giles? After all that?
I said that in the game thread. Hopefully we won't be relegated somewhere else again from here when another argument starts lol.
But, I'll add this. This may not happen and even probably won't, but if Giles blows up on another team, I would call Vlade the worst GM in NBA history. Full stop.
Do you really think we can pretend to be optimistic about Giles? After all that?
I said that in the game thread. Hopefully we won't be relegated somewhere else again from here when another argument starts lol.
But, I'll add this. This may not happen and even probably won't, but if Giles blows up on another team, I would call Vlade the worst GM in NBA history. Full stop.
Most mock drafts just predict where different prospects will end up based on their possible inside knowledge or team "needs". Espn has probably some inside knowledge close to the draft and they knew Vlade would want Bagley and Memphis would want JJJ.
Basically most mock drafts are garbage. Big boards are much more informative since its just ranking the prospects by their value. With mock drafts/big boards its the same stuff that it is with every other Nba analysts, you have to pick the good from the bad. Good analysts had Doncic higher on their big board than Bagley. Most of the good analysts had Doncic as their best prospect in that class. Even the majority of casual fans wanted Doncic. Unfortunately we are led by a guy that for some odd reason didnt have Doncic at the top of his board.
Basically most mock drafts are garbage. Big boards are much more informative since its just ranking the prospects by their value. With mock drafts/big boards its the same stuff that it is with every other Nba analysts, you have to pick the good from the bad. Good analysts had Doncic higher on their big board than Bagley. Most of the good analysts had Doncic as their best prospect in that class. Even the majority of casual fans wanted Doncic. Unfortunately we are led by a guy that for some odd reason didnt have Doncic at the top of his board.
Hard to build a solid case against Vlade when your top two young stars have been out for significant amounts of time in a year where expectations were high for "over achieving". If we're below .500 at the end of the year I'll change my tune. However, .500 may get you in the playoffs in the West this year. Season isn't lost yet.
So there, your last sentence (and the whole post) is something I consider fair assessment of the draft. I just had to respond when the claim is that everyone was of one opinion, and inexplicably only the King's were of another opinion. But obviously that was not the case since, as your post indicates, there were at least 2 other teams that for one reason or another were choosing differently. Btw, I'm assuming you mean Atlanta wanted Young not Memphis wanted JJJ (Memphis had the 4th pick and ESPN had Luka 4)
Ok, but how many years will you give him a free pass? How many years out of the playoffs with Vlade at the helm will you overlook his mediocrity? Bill Russell was an all time great as a player but he sucked as a coach and general manager. There are many other examples of all star players who just couldn't cut it as executives for whatever reason - impatience, high expectations that only they can meet, poor communication skills, etc. Time to move on.
Gave up a recent lotto pick, two pick swaps, and an unprotected 1st for cap relief.
Used said cap relief to throw a max at Wesley Matthews coming off an achilles injury. When that didn't work, used it to sign Rondo, Belinelli, and Koufos.
More overpaid vets in 2017 and 2019.
Bagley over Doncic.
Papagiannis over literally everyone else.
Fire Dave Joerger and bringing in Walton.
Skal for Swanigan
The Harry Giles debacle.
There, done. He's failed in the draft, free agency, trades, and asset management.
Used said cap relief to throw a max at Wesley Matthews coming off an achilles injury. When that didn't work, used it to sign Rondo, Belinelli, and Koufos.
More overpaid vets in 2017 and 2019.
Bagley over Doncic.
Papagiannis over literally everyone else.
Fire Dave Joerger and bringing in Walton.
Skal for Swanigan
The Harry Giles debacle.
There, done. He's failed in the draft, free agency, trades, and asset management.
The only reason your point appears to have legitimacy is due to our record. Our record is likely influenced by our two top stars missing significant time this year. All I'm saying is you can't come to a conclusion yet because there is such an obvious lurking variable. Sorry you weren't taught critical thinking.
To top it all off, Vlade has put us fans in a weird position to where we can't even really cheer for one of the most exciting potential prospects we've had in years in Harry Giles. It's like if he plays well for us, he's gone. If he doesn't, then maybe he stays but then we've lost excitement for him because it means he didn't play well enough for any other team to want him.
So frustrating. The only silver lining in these losing seasons is watching player development and we can't even get excited over that now.
So frustrating. The only silver lining in these losing seasons is watching player development and we can't even get excited over that now.
Our record has nothing to do with it as none of those other picks are on the team or we declined their option (Giles). Therefore my point still stands about even if Bagley were good, Vlade’s other picks would bring into question his tenure. So much for “critical thinking”.
As for our two “top stars” missing significant time, you might want to check our record with and without them playing. Why don’t you check on that and give me a reasonable explanation of how their presence would suddenly provide a winning record. I’m curious how your critical thinking skills would explain that point.
As for our two “top stars” missing significant time, you might want to check our record with and without them playing. Why don’t you check on that and give me a reasonable explanation of how their presence would suddenly provide a winning record. I’m curious how your critical thinking skills would explain that point.
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You are what your record says you are.
By the way what's their record when those two guys did play this year? Bagley plays zero defense and the team is worse everytime he is on the floor right now. Of course with time that will probably change but right now Bagley doesn't help the team win.
Furthermore if Vlade hadn't butchered most of his other draft picks, maybe they'd have another good player or two to weather the storm of these injuries that are are supposedly sinking this team.
By the way what's their record when those two guys did play this year? Bagley plays zero defense and the team is worse everytime he is on the floor right now. Of course with time that will probably change but right now Bagley doesn't help the team win.
Furthermore if Vlade hadn't butchered most of his other draft picks, maybe they'd have another good player or two to weather the storm of these injuries that are are supposedly sinking this team.
Since Vlade is so beloved by the ownership, the easy way out for everyone is to hire a legitimate full time GM to take over day to day activities and leave Vlade as the “embassador” President figure head.
Much like what Larry Bird was with the Indiana Pacers, but the GM made all the daily personnel decisions.
The Kings save face and the fans get a GM to make the personnel decisions. It’s a win-win.
Much like what Larry Bird was with the Indiana Pacers, but the GM made all the daily personnel decisions.
The Kings save face and the fans get a GM to make the personnel decisions. It’s a win-win.
I wasn't Bagley bashing, it was more using Bagley as an example of the ineptitude and mediocrity and stupidity of this franchise. I have nothing against Bagley, I have an problem with the grown adults who make a lot of money who decided to take him over a generational talent. I remember when they traded Cousins there were people on here who were saying that that finally was the thing that broke the camel's back. Passing on Luka Doncic when he was handed to you is like 100x more stupid and offensive than trading DeMarcus Cousins, it's not even a discussion.