[Game] Friday morning game

rosa u podne

rosa u podne

Bench
#271
#271
sactowndog said:
I agree. If you are a Serbian fan (or parent) of Bogi, you have reason to be upset why Fox is apparently freezing your favorite player (son) out. It’s also not unreasonable to make the case Bogi is a better player than Buddy. Bogi is close as a shooter, clearly better off the dribble, and better in crunch time.

I have two kids involved in pro sports and after the last two games, I would be thinking hard about telling my child to get the hell out. It’s still early, let’s hope it changes.
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If you are fun of Bogi. No need for nationality spec. The same applies if you are a fan of the Kings. You don't want your PG to freeze out your second-best shooter and probably the best crunch-time player. As I said, it was the first preseason game, and it is possible that the coach wanted Fox and Hield to take all shots in crunch time. We will see. I believe the coach and the team will adjust.

In addition to that, I haven't watched the 2nd game, just based on statistics, it looks like that Barns was freezed out this time. I guess the coach is experimenting.
 
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rosa u podne

rosa u podne

Bench
#272
#272
Capt. Factorial said:
I'm not entirely certain what the size of Serbia has to do with anything. Furthermore, I'm not sure that there has been much in the way of allusion from our new Serbian board member. Buddy is bad and should be traded, Fox should be benched, Bogdan should start alongside Cory Joseph. This is pretty obvious stuff, and we have a name for it: "Player-Fan". There's nothing necessarily wrong with being a fan of a player rather than a fan of a team, but sometimes it manifests itself in the quest for individual glory over team results, and you get what we had here this morning. Which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. And I don't like it any more than you men. (Sorry, fell into my Strother Martin for a second there.)
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We may become a bit oversensitive to player fans. I saw a lot of ridiculous ideas on this board, some of them made me annoyed, some made me laugh. This one makes me laugh. As Sactowndog mention, for understanding, it helps to know the context. Besides rooting for his countryman, who happens to be a good crunch-time player but was really ignored, there is also a euro-coaching angle. In Europe, there are a few coaches who are bigger stars than any player playing there. Also, without true superstars, euro-ball is more about teamwork. So, a superstar star coach would not hesitate to bench his star point guard to make a point. Of course, in NBA it won't happen, and with Fox especially, there is no need for that. He is a smart guy, the coach is smart enough too (at least I hope), so they will make adjustments in a game plan.
 
J

jellyfish

Bench
#273
#273
Was really glad to see Jakar get a good run in and another shot at the NBA. Was sad to see Goga (Pacers pick) not playing watched him kill on Jokic's (Mega) old team in the ABA liga I think the guy will eventually make Turner expendable he's that talented I wish we had a late 1st pick to use on him.

Based on the first two preseason games so far we won't win much unless Joseph/Holmes/Bjelica don't get heavy mins at PG/PF/C.
 
Peja

Peja

Bench
#276
#276
I agree it's too early to suggest radical changes, especially since the team has only been together for like 7 days with a new coach. Let's see how things go in the next few weeks and how we start the season. One thing I'd stress out is - we don't have any superstars on the team, hence, the only way to make a good result is to play like a team, share the ball and play with each other.

And even though I am not supporting hard criticism at this stage, I can see where that comes from. We haven't been in playoffs since 2006. This fact creates mentality where you're not ready to wait 40 games to start criticizing, because the playoff is already wishful thinking at that point :)
 
sactowndog

sactowndog

All-Star
#277
#277
rosa u podne said:
If you are fun of Bogi. No need for nationality spec. The same applies if you are a fan of the Kings. You don't want your PG to freeze out your second-best shooter and probably the best crunch-time player. As I said, it was the first preseason game, and it is possible that the coach wanted Fox and Hield to take all shots in crunch time. We will see. I believe the coach and the team will adjust.

In addition to that, I haven't watched the 2nd game, just based on statistics, it looks like that Barns was freezed out this time. I guess the coach is experimenting.
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It’s possible but odd he would play a small ball line-up to get Bogi’s shooting in the game and then never have him get the ball.

Watch the second game third quarter if you can. I didn’t start to have a question until watching a whole quarter go by and not seeing Fox pass to Bogi once despite standing alone on the weak side. Given Bogi is not a good rebounder or defender why else would he be in? And I’m not looking primarily at statistics, I’m watching Bogi standing alone and never getting the ball.
 
rosa u podne

rosa u podne

Bench
#278
#278
sactowndog said:
It’s possible but odd he would play a small ball line-up to get Bogi’s shooting in the game and then never have him get the ball.

Watch the second game third quarter if you can. I didn’t start to have a question until watching a whole quarter go by and not seeing Fox pass to Bogi once despite standing alone on the weak side. Given Bogi is not a good rebounder or defender why else would he be in? And I’m not looking primarily at statistics, I’m watching Bogi standing alone and never getting the ball.
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I don't have time to watch right now, I must finish something. Anyway, the thing to keep an eye on.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#279
#279
Capt. Factorial said:
I'm not entirely certain what the size of Serbia has to do with anything. Furthermore, I'm not sure that there has been much in the way of allusion from our new Serbian board member. Buddy is bad and should be traded, Fox should be benched, Bogdan should start alongside Cory Joseph. This is pretty obvious stuff, and we have a name for it: "Player-Fan". There's nothing necessarily wrong with being a fan of a player rather than a fan of a team, but sometimes it manifests itself in the quest for individual glory over team results, and you get what we had here this morning. Which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. And I don't like it any more than you men. (Sorry, fell into my Strother Martin for a second there.)
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TC, I found a gold tooth! Ahhh Strother Martin, one of my all time favorites. From the Wild bunch, to True grit.... By the way, I have another name for our new member. I call him a troll and now have him on ignore.
 
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The Effort Police

The Effort Police

Starter
#282
#282
I know i have right said:
Than you mac for your respect, and time you took to look up No. 40.

I am sorry if i caused any troubles, but my opinion is diffrent, i'll try to respect you back and explain my
opinion, and after that i'll stop.

No. 5 is 21 yeara old, he has it all phisicaly, great speed etc. His problem is bugging, controling that speed, and more important controling the glory and expectations. He needs to be guided, and i strongly beleve in learning by rewards and punishmen, thats why benching, to get him back a little to the ground.

No. 24 has his ability to think put in Davi Jones locker... So use him as 2nd unit to come in and bring up energy with hard defence and just shooting 3s in transition or of the screens, with no thinking required. Or you can trade him wile he is popular for player on position 3 so No. 40 doesn't start.

And just to let you know this is only my opinion, it might be wrong, but i know it isn't :) So
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Ah, there's the culture of Euroleague showing I see.

Something you need to understand is that the culture of the NBA is different and always will be. You can have your opinion on what you think should happen, but if you have any expectations of this place to actually be run like a Euroleague team, throw it out the window. It ain't happening.
 
sactowndog

sactowndog

All-Star
#284
#284
The Effort Police said:
Ah, there's the culture of Euroleague showing I see.

Something you need to understand is that the culture of the NBA is different and always will be. You can have your opinion on what you think should happen, but if you have any expectations of this place to actually be run like a Euroleague team, throw it out the window. It ain't happening.
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What playing like a team and putting the team success before individual success? Seems like that has been the culture of the Warriors for years. If it is not or doesn’t become the culture of the Kings then expect permanent residency in the lottery.
 
The Effort Police

The Effort Police

Starter
#286
#286
sactowndog said:
What playing like a team and putting the team success before individual success? Seems like that has been the culture of the Warriors for years. If it is not or doesn’t become the culture of the Kings then expect permanent residency in the lottery.
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Right, that's their culture. Definitely not the fact that they had 4 all-stars, 2 of which are MVPs, and one of which puts individual accomplishments above all else and is an iso-heavy player.

Give me a call when you can run an NBA team like a Euroleague team and not lose the locker room.
 
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VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#287
#287
I know i have right said:
He should be benched, it would be good for him. But it's hard to explain to you why, so i won't.

As for the No. 24, as you call him one of the best shooters in the league, he isn't, and with him in a team, with role he has now, you can forget playoffs.
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LOL!

You're gonna have to do a lot better than that if you hope to hold your own around here.

We get it. You're going to support your favorite players. No problem with that in and of itself. Where the problem might come in is if/when you start being blindly nationalistic. We've been through this many times before and you're trying to butt heads with folks who have been Kings fans (and members of KF) for decades.

Bring some good depth to your arguments or expect to be shot down at every turn.

Oh, and welcome to Kingsfans.com We're not for the faint of heart. :)
 
rosa u podne

rosa u podne

Bench
#288
#288
The Effort Police said:
Right, that's their culture. Definitely not the fact that they had 4 all-stars, 2 of which are MVPs, and one of which puts individual accomplishments above all else and is an iso-heavy player.

Give me a call when you can run an NBA team like a Euroleague team and not lose the locker room.
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Well, Pop is the closest in the NBA running the team like an EL team. OTOH, he drafted and coached a few EL stars and the centerpiece of the team was probably the most unselfish superstar ever.
 
P

ppine

Starter
#290
#290
I agree that it is early to making judgements. After watching some more tape of the Kings, they play very soft on defense. The Pacers drove the lane repeatedly. The Kings like to watch and swat with their hands, when need to move their feet and get there first. I did not see anyone play with physicality except maybe Holmes. The Kings as a team are entirely too polite. The NBA is a league for full grown men. The Western Conference is full of great teams with plenty of guys that play the physical style. Walton needs to do a lot of work to create urgency and desire and physicality or this team is going to be limited in their effectiveness defending and getting defensive boards.
 
P

ppine

Starter
#291
#291
So far Walton's imprint on this team is not good. I have done enough coaching in this sport to recognize this immediately. He is astute enough to realize the desire is not there. Maybe playing in India has something to do with it. The talent is there, the emotional side of the game seems very flat and uninspiring. The KIngs really need some desire guys like Sampson, Brockman, et al to show up and fire up the rest of their team mates. Iman Sumpert is the kind of player the teams needs right now to get with it. Maybe one will emerge.
 
King Baller

King Baller

All-Star
#292
#292
rosa u podne said:
Well, Pop is the closest in the NBA running the team like an EL team. OTOH, he drafted and coached a few EL stars and the centerpiece of the team was probably the most unselfish superstar ever.
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See the thing is that the "Claw" is in LA now. Was this because of Pop's style? Not entirely, most of it is the "New" freedom in the NBA. But it does show a chink in Pop's otherwise perfect "System".
 
M

mac

All-Star
#293
#293
rosa u podne said:
Well, Pop is the closest in the NBA running the team like an EL team. OTOH, he drafted and coached a few EL stars and the centerpiece of the team was probably the most unselfish superstar ever.
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And yet it was never any debate who the best players or main starters were on the Spurs for the past 20 years. It's one thing to say coach needs to keep a tight rein and discipline, another altogether to suggest that Pop would bench Parker and Duncan for some career backups. Honestly I'd first thought the poster was from India watching his first ever Kings/NBA game because nobody who actually follows the NBA would ever make such a lineup suggestion. And if I was only watching these two games with no other knowledge of the NBA I'd reasonably suggest the same. Joseph somewhat outplayed Fox and Holmes looked good with his D and activity. The Buddy comments though.. yeesh.
 
sactowndog

sactowndog

All-Star
#295
#295
mac said:
And yet it was never any debate who the best players or main starters were on the Spurs for the past 20 years. It's one thing to say coach needs to keep a tight rein and discipline, another altogether to suggest that Pop would bench Parker and Duncan for some career backups. Honestly I'd first thought the poster was from India watching his first ever Kings/NBA game because nobody who actually follows the NBA would ever make such a lineup suggestion. And if I was only watching these two games with no other knowledge of the NBA I'd reasonably suggest the same. Joseph somewhat outplayed Fox and Holmes looked good with his D and activity. The Buddy comments though.. yeesh.
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Early in his career when Parker did something stupid I’m pretty sure Pop did bench him, Pop rode Parker hard.

And yes Buddy is an excellent shooter but he does make poor decisions in games. He had the worst plus minus on the Kings which is by no means definitive but still a data point. Arguing Bogi should start over Buddy isn’t really that out there.
 
M

mac

All-Star
#296
#296
sactowndog said:
Early in his career when Parker did something stupid I’m pretty sure Pop did bench him, Pop rode Parker hard.

And yes Buddy is an excellent shooter but he does make poor decisions in games. He had the worst plus minus on the Kings which is by no means definitive but still a data point. Arguing Bogi should start over Buddy isn’t really that out there.
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Yeah just so you know the points made weren't "bench Fox when he makes poor decisions" and "start Bogi over Buddy".. it was start Cory Joseph and trade Buddy cos he old
 
sactowndog

sactowndog

All-Star
#297
#297
mac said:
Yeah just so you know the points made weren't "bench Fox when he makes poor decisions" and "start Bogi over Buddy".. it was start Cory Joseph and trade Buddy cos he old
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I know which was why I said not totally inane.

Trading Buddy is dumb but a rational argument could be made to start Bogi over Buddy.

We aren’t benching Fox permanently but I have no idea what he was thinking in India. If it continues, this team will be back in the lottery. Bogi showed what he could do in game 1 with CoJo. It’s why Walton put him in the game at SF during overtime.
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#298
#298
mac said:
Yeah just so you know the points made weren't "bench Fox when he makes poor decisions" and "start Bogi over Buddy".. it was start Cory Joseph and trade Buddy cos he old
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*coughcough* Bogi is a couple of months older than Buddy and has a longer history of injury than him *coughcough*

Believe me, I was on the bench Buddy and start Bogi train last preseason. But that ship sailed the second Buddy put up a borderline all-star season and put up a 3P shooting season surpassed only by the Splash Bros, Harden, and Paul George.
 
Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

ceterum censeo delendum esse Argentum
Staff member
#299
#299
mac said:
Yeah just so you know the points made weren't "bench Fox when he makes poor decisions" and "start Bogi over Buddy".. it was start Cory Joseph and trade Buddy cos he old
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And not one of the best shooters in the league. Don't leave out the most inexplicable part of the argument.
 
rosa u podne

rosa u podne

Bench
#300
#300
mac said:
And yet it was never any debate who the best players or main starters were on the Spurs for the past 20 years. It's one thing to say coach needs to keep a tight rein and discipline, another altogether to suggest that Pop would bench Parker and Duncan for some career backups. Honestly I'd first thought the poster was from India watching his first ever Kings/NBA game because nobody who actually follows the NBA would ever make such a lineup suggestion. And if I was only watching these two games with no other knowledge of the NBA I'd reasonably suggest the same. Joseph somewhat outplayed Fox and Holmes looked good with his D and activity. The Buddy comments though.. yeesh.
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Not that I disagree, but Duncan was the mister fundamental from the get-go. Which means he played exactly the way Pop prefers. So, there was no opportunity to test the hypothesis on Duncan.
 
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