Harrison Barnes Likely to Receive $88 mill over 4 Years
- Thread starter Kangztillidie
- Start date
Yeah not sure how to view this. True 3/4 flex players are so valuable and Barnes already showed us he can work with the core guys and fit right in. Also considering how we had nothing close to a replacement for him, we'd have been paying a premium in this FA class anyway if we let him go. Makes missing on that Warren deal a bit sketchy.
Don't like overpaying ever, but we're clearly trying to win now and we'd need someone like Barnes to fill that 3/4 flex role. Better to overpay at a premium position than something like Center.
Don't like overpaying ever, but we're clearly trying to win now and we'd need someone like Barnes to fill that 3/4 flex role. Better to overpay at a premium position than something like Center.
$88 mil/4 years is too much for a player of his caliber. I was hopeful at the time of the trade knowing that it would give us an edge when it came to resigning (or extending) him, but I was hoping it would be at a reasonable price. This is an offer we could have made in the summer and likely outbid the rest of the market.
If only we traded for Otto Porter instead of Barnes. That was a HUGE miss by Vlade as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure some of you remember my obsession on this board about trading for him (and here I am again, bringing it up), but all it took for the Bulls to land him was...
Jabari Parker, Bobby Portis, and a protected 2023 2nd round pick
That was it. You're telling me we couldn't have beat that? With Willie Cauley-Stein, Justin Jackson, Skal Labissiere, and a plethora of 2nd round draft picks over the next few years at our disposal?
Yes, Porter is overpaid but he is younger than Barnes, Hield, & Bogdan, and he is a much better player SF than Barnes. I always thought his offensive potential was down played as well. His per36 PPG over the past 4 seasons at WAS was 15.2 with a .592 TS%. At CHI, his per36 scoring went up to 19.2 PPG with a .609 TS%. So he increased his scoring while increasing his efficiency. Granted this was only over 15 games, but it's the start of a trend.
It frustrates me that we could have had a bigger, longer, younger, better SF last year and Vlade failed to beat out a package of Parker, Portis, and 2023 2nd round pick. However, I was able to set that frustration aside with the idea of resigning Barnes to a reasonable contract ($14-17 mil/year). Knowing we may be about to lock him up for $22 mil/year just makes the Otto Porter miss sting that much more.
If only we traded for Otto Porter instead of Barnes. That was a HUGE miss by Vlade as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure some of you remember my obsession on this board about trading for him (and here I am again, bringing it up), but all it took for the Bulls to land him was...
Jabari Parker, Bobby Portis, and a protected 2023 2nd round pick
That was it. You're telling me we couldn't have beat that? With Willie Cauley-Stein, Justin Jackson, Skal Labissiere, and a plethora of 2nd round draft picks over the next few years at our disposal?
Yes, Porter is overpaid but he is younger than Barnes, Hield, & Bogdan, and he is a much better player SF than Barnes. I always thought his offensive potential was down played as well. His per36 PPG over the past 4 seasons at WAS was 15.2 with a .592 TS%. At CHI, his per36 scoring went up to 19.2 PPG with a .609 TS%. So he increased his scoring while increasing his efficiency. Granted this was only over 15 games, but it's the start of a trend.
It frustrates me that we could have had a bigger, longer, younger, better SF last year and Vlade failed to beat out a package of Parker, Portis, and 2023 2nd round pick. However, I was able to set that frustration aside with the idea of resigning Barnes to a reasonable contract ($14-17 mil/year). Knowing we may be about to lock him up for $22 mil/year just makes the Otto Porter miss sting that much more.
The Sac premiums....
When you sign the Jason Thompson's, Carl Landry's, I love the guy but Kosta's. Randolph's, Hills.....
Ok that's infuriating.
This is at a much needed position of depth, unless you are Joerger, and a guy young enough to fit in.
Lower expectations.
Be happy we have a starting SF for 4 years.
Our depth before this at SF
Troy Williams RFA/James out of position possibly.
Relax, let's use the rest of our cap wisely.
When you sign the Jason Thompson's, Carl Landry's, I love the guy but Kosta's. Randolph's, Hills.....
Ok that's infuriating.
This is at a much needed position of depth, unless you are Joerger, and a guy young enough to fit in.
Lower expectations.
Be happy we have a starting SF for 4 years.
Our depth before this at SF
Troy Williams RFA/James out of position possibly.
Relax, let's use the rest of our cap wisely.
Excellent deal by Vlade and Cantanella. Denver would gladly match or exceed this offer if we diddled around and low-balled Barnes. This is how good front offices work...get your own free agents squared away on market rate deals and then go big game hunting.
BTW, this is probably our biggest FA retention since CWebb.
BTW, this is probably our biggest FA retention since CWebb.
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It's an interesting fact, which raises certain questions. Who are the seven ahead of him? Leonard, Durant, LBJ, and who exactly? And where will Barnes be in his ranking after this FA period? You can't compare his "new" salary to the "old" existing salaries of years gone by. That would be an apples to oranges comparison. The more apt comparisons are going to be Middleton and Bojan. If those players sign for significantly less than Barnes it would indicate an over-payment to Barnes. I'll be watching to see what their numbers are.
Barnes career VORP = 2.6
Hield last year alone = 2.1
Personally I think it's a huge overpay for a guy who is barely above a replacement player but I get it. The Kings pretty much have to attach themselves like a crazy girlfriend to the first guy that shows them any interest.
I just think in the end there are players that will give you the same level of production for less than half as much. I'd rather them throw a ridiculous deal at a known winning player than overpay for a guy like Barnes but I get that they could potentially wait too long and wind up without a date to the dance.
Hield last year alone = 2.1
Personally I think it's a huge overpay for a guy who is barely above a replacement player but I get it. The Kings pretty much have to attach themselves like a crazy girlfriend to the first guy that shows them any interest.
I just think in the end there are players that will give you the same level of production for less than half as much. I'd rather them throw a ridiculous deal at a known winning player than overpay for a guy like Barnes but I get that they could potentially wait too long and wind up without a date to the dance.
Big reason I was screaming to go pay Marcus Smart last summer. His market was completely dead and we had the opportunity to blow him away for 18-20 mil/season.
Can do worse than overpaying for Barnes. At least he plays a premium position and showed us he can work offensively with the core.
Can do worse than overpaying for Barnes. At least he plays a premium position and showed us he can work offensively with the core.
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They probably could’ve offered that(maybe they did?) but the Chicago deal looks better than that one. Or atleast there is no reason there for Washington to chose the Kings offer over Chicago’s offer. Atleast Parker and Portis provide offense, some name value, expirings and not look like an obvious salary dump on paper which the Kings scenario would quite clearly be. Remember, the Wiz were swearing up and down that they were still tying to compete. Parker and Portis rental is a better immediate haul than Willie, Skal, and JJ. We can’t assume that most teams would value JJ and Skal as prospects at that point.
I like Porter but I’m not entirely sure he and Barnes aren’t in a similar category anyway. I guess there is still more of a what if component with Porter since he only played so many games in a more open situation with Chicago and the Wall/Beal/bad FO team has been an acceptable scapegoat for his underachieving.. While we’re pretty sure of Barnes’ limitations and what his role should be. There is still thought Porter can be a top option. However, both good two way Small forwards who can play 4 in small ball lineups. Neither great rebounders for their size. Both very good spot up three point shooters. Otto better in that regard but Otto would have a similar role here and I don’t think it would be that much better if at all. In the end, I don’t think it’s damning that Vlade didn’t land him given Chicago offered the immediate talent, better appearance, and a full on salary for salary dump for a team that didn’t want the lingering 5-7 million or whatever JJ and Skal would’ve had hanging in them this year.
It’s probably not worth much, but Barnes completely outplayed Porter when Chicago was in town.
I like Porter but I’m not entirely sure he and Barnes aren’t in a similar category anyway. I guess there is still more of a what if component with Porter since he only played so many games in a more open situation with Chicago and the Wall/Beal/bad FO team has been an acceptable scapegoat for his underachieving.. While we’re pretty sure of Barnes’ limitations and what his role should be. There is still thought Porter can be a top option. However, both good two way Small forwards who can play 4 in small ball lineups. Neither great rebounders for their size. Both very good spot up three point shooters. Otto better in that regard but Otto would have a similar role here and I don’t think it would be that much better if at all. In the end, I don’t think it’s damning that Vlade didn’t land him given Chicago offered the immediate talent, better appearance, and a full on salary for salary dump for a team that didn’t want the lingering 5-7 million or whatever JJ and Skal would’ve had hanging in them this year.
It’s probably not worth much, but Barnes completely outplayed Porter when Chicago was in town.
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According to https://www.spotrac.com/nba/contracts/small-forward/ - by contract
James,, George, Hayward, Durant, Wiggins Porter, Parsons, Barnes (at that reported contract average)....
Barnes is better than Hayward post-injury, and Durant is now question-mark with his Achilles. Parsons has been injured too much and paid on potential. I liked Bojan alot although he's older - if Bojan makes in the 15MM range, that would be sour. Middleton looked pretty good, although in some of the playoff games , he wasn't consistent looking, sometimes disappearing. I wonder if he will get paid 22MM a season - probably....Harris was more worth the amount or over, but he likely has interest of a bunch of teams, and likely will make more and he's better than Barnes. I also wonder about Leonard's longevity with that quad injury.
I saw this on a website: the NYT were saying the Magic are looking to offer Vucevic 4 Year/ 90 Million - the Kings can top that, and that would help me forget about Barnes overpayment quickly.
James,, George, Hayward, Durant, Wiggins Porter, Parsons, Barnes (at that reported contract average)....
Barnes is better than Hayward post-injury, and Durant is now question-mark with his Achilles. Parsons has been injured too much and paid on potential. I liked Bojan alot although he's older - if Bojan makes in the 15MM range, that would be sour. Middleton looked pretty good, although in some of the playoff games , he wasn't consistent looking, sometimes disappearing. I wonder if he will get paid 22MM a season - probably....Harris was more worth the amount or over, but he likely has interest of a bunch of teams, and likely will make more and he's better than Barnes. I also wonder about Leonard's longevity with that quad injury.
I saw this on a website: the NYT were saying the Magic are looking to offer Vucevic 4 Year/ 90 Million - the Kings can top that, and that would help me forget about Barnes overpayment quickly.
I heard Kings are interested in Al Horford but at 33? I don't think I want to pay a guy $25 per year when he's 33 years old...hell no. I rather go after a younger player like Vucevic. If Kings can't sign them, then I think they should go after maybe a Middleton or Tobias Harris and move Bagley to Center!!
I was gonna say the same thing. One dude has helped won DPOY and helped his team reach 5 consecutive Finals, including winning 3 rings while the other was allowed to leave by the same team because they didn't view him near as valuable. Granted they upgraded in a major, major way. But still.
I like Harrison Barnes. I really do. But he's nowhere near the special player Draymond Green is. If we were talking about Draymond Green on this team for 22M, I wouldn't bat an eye.
I like Harrison Barnes. I really do. But he's nowhere near the special player Draymond Green is. If we were talking about Draymond Green on this team for 22M, I wouldn't bat an eye.
Why?? I can provide a large list of players over the past 35 years that have played at a high level up until 36 yo -- which is what Horford will be at the end of the contract. Many of them did so well before this current era of athletic training, nutrition and recovery methods.
Dirk Nowitzki averaged 18 ppg at 36 yo. Dennis Rodman averaged 15 rpg at 36. Karl Malone was a 25/9 guy at 36. Two of those guys played 2 decades ago, before the new era.
It's far more common, and likely, for players in their mid-30's to remain healthy and impactful. And in the NBA, it's historically been easier for BIGS to do it than guards.
I see Horford being able to have a similar effect as Vlade Divac when he signed with the KINGS. Vlade never put up strong statistics, but his leadership, experience, and savvy play were immeasurable. Horford is a very strong defender, which this team desperately needs.
FWIW, Vlade was 33 yo on that 2002 KINGS team we all love and appreciate so much. They easily could have and should have won a title that year and the year after.
I don't have any concern over Al Horford's age. Not in today's game. And not with the position he plays.
Dirk Nowitzki averaged 18 ppg at 36 yo. Dennis Rodman averaged 15 rpg at 36. Karl Malone was a 25/9 guy at 36. Two of those guys played 2 decades ago, before the new era.
It's far more common, and likely, for players in their mid-30's to remain healthy and impactful. And in the NBA, it's historically been easier for BIGS to do it than guards.
I see Horford being able to have a similar effect as Vlade Divac when he signed with the KINGS. Vlade never put up strong statistics, but his leadership, experience, and savvy play were immeasurable. Horford is a very strong defender, which this team desperately needs.
FWIW, Vlade was 33 yo on that 2002 KINGS team we all love and appreciate so much. They easily could have and should have won a title that year and the year after.
I don't have any concern over Al Horford's age. Not in today's game. And not with the position he plays.
It’s not out of the question. By the time numbers start to get crunched the cap will be 130 mil and luxury around 155 mil. Do we really think fox, Buddy, bogi, Bagley, Giles will all be worth max contracts? Great if they are because that means we have won a couple of championships and paying the tax won’t be a problem. Also by them Horford and Barnes will be coming off the books the next summer so one year of tax and then 50 mil is freed up.