How will the Kings manage $59M in practical cap space

sactowndog

sactowndog

All-Star
#1
#1
With Barnes opting out we have 59M in practical cap space which provides the ability to offer two near max contracts.

As Kings fans we can only dream but signing a Leonard and Horford is possible. The following team could clearly compete for an NBA title.

Starters:
Horford, Bagley, Leonard, Hield, Fox

Bench:
Bogdanovic, Bjelicia, Giles, Swanigan

By comparison the Clippers would have:

Starters:
Horford, Harrell, Leonard, Williams, Gilgeous-Alexander

Bench: Gallinari, Robinson, Shamet, Zubac
 
S

Smills91

Starter
#2
#2
There's a 32 million cap hold with Barnes until we renounce his bird rights.

So the Kings need to either do that or re-sign him to a smaller but longer deal which would cut into the 59 million by how much he's re-signed for by year one contract size.
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#3
#3
So rough numbers here from some rumours is Barnes signs on for some $20m per season. Horford for some $25m which leaves us with some $14m for a back up PG or a SF.
 
sactowndog

sactowndog

All-Star
#4
#4
Smills91 said:
There's a 32 million cap hold with Barnes until we renounce his bird rights.

So the Kings need to either do that or re-sign him to a smaller but longer deal which would cut into the 59 million by how much he's re-signed for by year one contract size.
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ParniValjak said:
So rough numbers here from some rumours is Barnes signs on for some $20m per season. Horford for some $25m which leaves us with some $14m for a back up PG or a SF.
Click to expand...
Hearing Denver may target Barnes
 
C

cwebb2002

Bench
#7
#7
I think horford opting out and seeking a toughly 100M yr deal, we sign him and barnes id through the rest (or a good chunk) at Pat Beverly (he can play with any of the wings on this team and is one of the best onball defenders in the league). Then resign brewer or troy williams for vet minimums. Give part of the MLE to Koufas (~4) or hope swannigan is enough az your deep bench big.

Fox/Beverly
Buddy/bogi
Barnes/brewer or williams
Bagley/bjeli
Horford/giles/koufas or swannigan
 
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twslam07

twslam07

All-Star
#8
#8
I think I'm just going to give up on trying to hammer home my own approach, and just accept the fact that Vlade is going to try and use the cap space to win now.

In that case, I think the most important FA signing we could land would be...

Al Farouq-Aminu

For starters, his impact stats have been extremely good for the past 4 seasons:

2018-19
RAPM = 2.55 (34th in league)
RPM = 1.68 (65th in league)
On/Off = +10.0 (3rd on team)

2017-18
RAPM = 2.65 (37th in league)
RPM = 2.00 (53rd in league)
On/Off = +4.6 (2nd on team)

2016-17
RAPM = 1.34 (66th in league)
RPM = 1.27 (80th in league)
On/Off = +3.8 (5th on team)

2015-16
RAPM = 1.21 (80th in league)
RPM = 1.73 (66th in league)
On/Off = +1.8 (4th on team)

He's 28 so he should have at least 3-4 more years in his prime. He's also a legitimate role player who can allow our young guys to step into their offensive roles. Not to mention he's a terrific defender & rebounder. His shooting is also acceptable. He's shot 35% from three the last 4 years (40% from the corner three). His size is also great as a wing 9'0.5" standing reach and a 7'3.25" wingspan.

One of the main reasons I think he would be a terrific fit is the versatility he would bring. For instance, if Bagley develops and becomes a guy that can hold down the C spot, Aminu slides in at PF between Barnes & Bagley very well. He has the size, strength, length to handle PFs, and his rebounding is so good that you're likely not even losing much by playing a lineup that's a little bit smaller.

He also seems like the type of guy that you could probably come off the bench without it being a locker room issue too.

Below is a breakdown of how the offseason could play out.

  1. Let Cauley-Stein walk
  2. We have $58.7 mil in cap space
  3. Resign Barnes to $76.25 mil over 4 years (first year is $16.9 mil with 8% raises)
  4. We have $42.7 mil in cap space
  5. Sign Al Farouq-Aminu to $64.65 mil over 4 years (first year is $15 mil with 5% raises)
  6. Sign Patrick Beverley to $64.65 mil over 4 years (first year is $15 mil with 5% raises)
  7. Sign Brook Lopez to $64.65 mil over 4 years (first year is $15 mil with 5% raises)
  8. We have $400K in cap space
PG - Fox / Beverley / Ferrell / Mason
SG - Hield / Bogdan / James
SF - Barnes / Aminu
PF - Bagley / Bjelica / Swanigan
C - Lopez / Giles

The question is if we can get Aminu, Lopez, & Beverley with $16.16 mil per year. Portland is in cap hell and they make not want to go that high with Harkless on the roster. The Bucks made a move to open up more cap space, but I believe this would be more money than the Bucks could offer. The Clippers have SGA, Shamet, Williams, & Robinson at guards, but $16 mil/year may just be higher than what other teams are going to offer.

Lopez gives Bagley that strong, shotblocking, good 3pt shooting C next to him. We also improve our backup PG spot and arguably will have the best 48 minutes of PG defense. Aminu gives us an excellent role player & wing defender who can give us a lethal smallball lineup with Bagley at C (while not sacrificing rebounding).
 
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B

BigVirg

Bench
#10
#10
I'd definitely prioritize signing Barnes to a 4 year 80 mill extension. I'd then focus my efforts in Dewayne Dedmon as his shooting skill set would allow Giles to get more minutes while still providing above average rebounding and rim protection. I'm not sure what Dedmon's contract value would be but I'd assume a 2 year 15-20 mill range gets it done. I'd then look for wing depth and either Morris brother would be good options. They'd bring toughness and length that we lack with decent 3 pt ability. If Ariza has any gas in his legs I'd give him a look as well. 2-3 year 30 mill for morris brother 1-2 years 20 mill for Ariza. Lastly we address point guard position and obviously Pat Bev is the prize most of us want. 2-3 years 15 mill per is something I think we should consider. A 3 player haul like this would be a perfect off season IMO. 3 above average role players that compliment or team weaknesses but not high profile players that are ball dominant or hinder the development of our young studs.
 
K

Kangztillidie

Bench
#12
#12
twslam07 said:
I think I'm just going to give up on trying to hammer home my own approach, and just accept the fact that Vlade is going to try and use the cap space to win now.

In that case, I think the most important FA signing we could land would be...

Al Farouq-Aminu

For starters, his impact stats have been extremely good for the past 4 seasons:

2018-19
RAPM = 2.55 (34th in league)
RPM = 1.68 (65th in league)
On/Off = +10.0 (3rd on team)

2017-18
RAPM = 2.65 (37th in league)
RPM = 2.00 (53rd in league)
On/Off = +4.6 (2nd on team)

2016-17
RAPM = 1.34 (66th in league)
RPM = 1.27 (80th in league)
On/Off = +3.8 (5th on team)

2015-16
RAPM = 1.21 (80th in league)
RPM = 1.73 (66th in league)
On/Off = +1.8 (4th on team)

He's 28 so he should have at least 3-4 more years in his prime. He's also a legitimate role player who can allow our young guys to step into their offensive roles. Not to mention he's a terrific defender & rebounder. His shooting is also acceptable. He's shot 35% from three the last 4 years (40% from the corner three). His size is also great as a wing 9'0.5" standing reach and a 7'3.25" wingspan.

One of the main reasons I think he would be a terrific fit is the versatility he would bring. For instance, if Bagley develops and becomes a guy that can hold down the C spot, Aminu slides in at PF between Barnes & Bagley very well. He has the size, strength, length to handle PFs, and his rebounding is so good that you're likely not even losing much by playing a lineup that's a little bit smaller.

He also seems like the type of guy that you could probably come off the bench without it being a locker room issue too.

Below is a breakdown of how the offseason could play out.

  1. Let Cauley-Stein walk
  2. We have $58.7 mil in cap space
  3. Resign Barnes to $76.25 mil over 4 years (first year is $16.9 mil with 8% raises)
  4. We have $42.7 mil in cap space
  5. Sign Al Farouq-Aminu to $64.65 mil over 4 years (first year is $15 mil with 5% raises)
  6. Sign Patrick Beverley to $64.65 mil over 4 years (first year is $15 mil with 5% raises)
  7. Sign Brook Lopez to $64.65 mil over 4 years (first year is $15 mil with 5% raises)
  8. We have $400K in cap space
PG - Fox / Beverley / Ferrell / Mason
SG - Hield / Bogdan / James
SF - Barnes / Aminu
PF - Bagley / Bjelica / Swanigan
C - Lopez / Giles

The question is if we can get Aminu, Lopez, & Beverley with $16.16 mil per year. Portland is in cap hell and they make not want to go that high with Harkless on the roster. The Bucks made a move to open up more cap space, but I believe this would be more money than the Bucks could offer. The Clippers have SGA, Shamet, Williams, & Robinson at guards, but $16 mil/year may just be higher than what other teams are going to offer.

Lopez gives Bagley that strong, shotblocking, good 3pt shooting C next to him. We also improve our backup PG spot and arguably will have the best 48 minutes of PG defense. Aminu gives us an excellent role player & wing defender who can give us a lethal smallball lineup with Bagley at C (while not sacrificing rebounding).
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So you want to pay your BACKUP SF 15 mill?

And you want to pay a backup PG and a kinda old C the same amount?

Isnt that how teams treadmill AND lose their young players for nothing at the same time tho?

Got all these old vets on LONG contracts and can't pay your youngsters so you trade them for old win now vets and never make it past the 2nd round type moves.


Here:

Throw the book at Kawhi. Sign Dedmon for 4/48.

As Kings fans we have gotten used to not even thinking about top tier talent. Even stories in the media are always "big name team (Lakers, Knicks) shooting for big name player".

Stop thinking Prague police and start thinking playstation. Blow crap up. Or think like Lloyd Christmas. "So you're saying there's a chance..."

Guaranteed Vlade ain't sitting around thinking we need to overpay for old garbage.

Or we could think like you did last offseason and believe Fox was never going to be any good.....
 
twslam07

twslam07

All-Star
#13
#13
Kangztillidie said:
So you want to pay your BACKUP SF 15 mill?

And you want to pay a backup PG and a kinda old C the same amount?

Isnt that how teams treadmill AND lose their young players for nothing at the same time tho?

Got all these old vets on LONG contracts and can't pay your youngsters so you trade them for old win now vets and never make it past the 2nd round type moves.


Here:

Throw the book at Kawhi. Sign Dedmon for 4/48.

As Kings fans we have gotten used to not even thinking about top tier talent. Even stories in the media are always "big name team (Lakers, Knicks) shooting for big name player".

Stop thinking Prague police and start thinking playstation. Blow crap up. Or think like Lloyd Christmas. "So you're saying there's a chance..."

Guaranteed Vlade ain't sitting around thinking we need to overpay for old garbage.

Or we could think like you did last offseason and believe Fox was never going to be any good.....
Click to expand...
Your first mistake is that you think Leonard is a possibility.

Your second mistake is that you think the players I recommended are old garbage.

Your third mistake is saying that I thought Fox wasn’t going to be any good.


I’m not sold Vucevic helps this team win more than Lopez. Vucevic’s offense is somewhat neutralized by a team that has Fox, Hield, Bogdan, and Bagley as scorers already. I’d rather pay a C that isn’t known for his scoring but is known for his ability to:

  • Body up bigger Cs
  • Shoot the three
  • Protect the rim
  • Help clean the defensive glass
Lopez does all of those things well.

As for Aminu, his impact stats speak for themselves. If Barnes and Aminu were the same age, I’d take Aminu in a heart beat. He’s a legit SF/PF and an excellent defender. His impressive rebounding and length also means you could play a Aminu/Bagley frontcourt without getting destroyed on the boards. He brings a lot of versatility, and could easily find 28-30 mpg on this team. I think you just get too wrapped up into who’s starting.

Beverley is one of the best roleplaying PGs in the league. His energy and effort is contagious. Not to mention he is one of the best shooters and defenders for his position. Having a Fox/Beverley PG rotation would really help our pick and roll defense as well.


Look I was very clear on the direction I wanted this team to go in (salary dump deals, stay patient), but Vlade obviously doesn’t agree with me. If he’s he’ll bent on signing players that help us win now, I don’t think we can do much better than the scenario I put forth (if we’re being realistic and not talking about signing Leonard).
 
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KingsSelecao

KingsSelecao

Bench
#14
#14
I would go hard after Tobias. He is a much better player than Barnes. Harris moves the needle for a playoff run. Barnes, does not. Harris will cost a little more. But, Everyone wants to pay Barnes 20 mil. The only team in the league paying him that kind of Money is Sac. No other team would be that stupid. Harris is also better than Vuc for the type of offense Sac runs.

I Love Beverly. I don't think he's coming to Sac, even with an overpay. He's older and is probably looking for a ring. He will probably take less to go to a contender. Sac is not close to competing, let alone getting into the playoffs.
 
twslam07

twslam07

All-Star
#15
#15
KingsSelecao said:
I would go hard after Tobias. He is a much better player than Barnes. Harris moves the needle for a playoff run. Barnes, does not. Harris will cost a little more. But, Everyone wants to pay Barnes 20 mil. The only team in the league paying him that kind of Money is Sac. No other team would be that stupid. Harris is also better than Vuc for the type of offense Sac runs.

I Love Beverly. I don't think he's coming to Sac, even with an overpay. He's older and is probably looking for a ring. He will probably take less to go to a contender. Sac is not close to competing, let alone getting into the playoffs.
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I think Harris would be the only somewhat realistic big FA I'd be okay with signing considering...
  • He's 26
  • He's a bigger SF/PF than Barnes
  • He's not ball dominant
  • He's one of the best 3pt shooters in the league
  • He's a good rebounder for his position
  • I'm hoping Bagley will develop into someone who can hold down the C spot since the strength of his game is on the interior.
I'd probably still look at trying to resign Barnes as well. That would give us a core of:

Fox - 21
Hield - 26
Bogdanovic - 26
Barnes - 27
Harris - 26
Giles - 21
Bagley - 20

We'd still have $10-12 mil in cap space to go try to sign someone like Dedmon as well.

The issue is that I'm not sure Bagley is ready to take on NBA Cs in his 2nd year, and there will certainly be games where we see it. However, if Bagley continues to work on his strength over the years and can become a good defender, a Fox/Hield/Barnes/Harris/Bagley lineup with Bogdanovic/Giles off the bench could be dangerous one day.
 
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S

Sactown ExPat

Starter
#16
#16
twslam07 said:
Your first mistake is that you think Leonard is a possibility.

Your second mistake is that you think the players I recommended are old garbage.

Your third mistake is saying that I thought Fox wasn’t going to be any good.


I’m not sold Vucevic helps this team win more than Lopez. Vucevic’s offense is somewhat neutralized by a team that has Fox, Hield, Bogdan, and Bagley as scorers already. I’d rather pay a C that isn’t known for his scoring but is known for his ability to:

  • Body up bigger Cs
  • Shoot the three
  • Protect the rim
  • Help clean the defensive glass
Lopez does all of those things well.

As for Aminu, his impact stats speak for themselves. If Barnes and Aminu were the same age, I’d take Aminu in a heart beat. He’s a legit SF/PF and an excellent defender. His impressive rebounding and length also means you could play a Aminu/Bagley frontcourt without getting destroyed on the boards. He brings a lot of versatility, and could easily find 28-30 mpg on this team. I think you just get too wrapped up into who’s starting.

Beverley is one of the best roleplaying PGs in the league. His energy and effort is contagious. Not to mention he is one of the best shooters and defenders for his position. Having a Fox/Beverley PG rotation would really help our pick and roll defense as well.


Look I was very clear on the direction I wanted this team to go in (salary dump deals, stay patient), but Vlade obviously doesn’t agree with me. If he’s he’ll bent on signing players that help us win now, I don’t think we can do much better than the scenario I put forth (if we’re being realistic and not talking about signing Leonard).
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Why isn’t Kawhi an option? We have two max slots, an outstanding young core, a top 5 arena, a forward-thinking owner, a well-run organization (see under two max slots + young core + amazing new building) and we sit in the middle of perhaps the most beautiful wine country on the planet. Moreover, Kawhi could have all of that and a very lowkey local press and fanbase. Kings are even better insulated than what he was used to with the Spurs.

No team is a free agent attraction until they actually sign someone big with the exception of Miami and the Lakers. So we should stop with the “little old me-ism”. It’s unbecoming, especially in a summer where the Clippers and Nets are expected to land the biggest free agents. The Clippers and Nets. I don’t care what their markets are, because they are both rounding errors for fanbases in their home markets. Let’s state our case to the top free agents and see what happens, but they should absolutely want to come play for us.
 
twslam07

twslam07

All-Star
#17
#17
Sactown ExPat said:
Why isn’t Kawhi an option? We have two max slots, an outstanding young core, a top 5 arena, a forward-thinking owner, a well-run organization (see under two max slots + young core + amazing new building) and we sit in the middle of perhaps the most beautiful wine country on the planet. Moreover, Kawhi could have all of that and a very lowkey local press and fanbase. Kings are even better insulated than what he was used to with the Spurs.

No team is a free agent attraction until they actually sign someone big with the exception of Miami and the Lakers. So we should stop with the “little old me-ism”. It’s unbecoming, especially in a summer where the Clippers and Nets are expected to land the biggest free agents. The Clippers and Nets. I don’t care what their markets are, because they are both rounding errors for fanbases in their home markets. Let’s state our case to the top free agents and see what happens, but they should absolutely want to come play for us.
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Why isn't Kawhi an option? Look at our FA history in Sacramento.

The Clippers and Nets are both big markets. You can act like it doesn't matter but it does. Both teams made the playoffs last year as well (something we didn't do), and LA is Leonard's home town. Not to mention the team he was on just won a championship and can resign him as well.

  • If the big market doesn't matter, why would he choose Sacramento over Toronto? Toronto has a better team and gives him another shot at a title
  • If the big market does matter, why would he choose Sacramento over LA, BKN, or NY? All of those places are much bigger.
  • If winning matters, why would he choose Sacramento over LA, BKN, PHI, TOR? All of those teams made the playoffs. PHI took TOR to 7 games and TOR won the championship.
Why must we do this to ourselves? Kawhi is not a realistic option.
 
Entity

Entity

Hall of Famer
#18
#18
Barnes $18 mil
Dedmon $12 mil
Beverly $12 mil
Oubre $15 mil

Fox/Beverly
Hield/Bogdanovic
Barnes/Oubre
Bagley/belinjca
Dedmon/Giles

Fill out the rest with our 2nd rounders and a get Cooley back
 
steelevt

steelevt

All-Star
#19
#19
Entity said:
Barnes $18 mil
Dedmon $12 mil
Beverly $12 mil
Oubre $15 mil

Fox/Beverly
Hield/Bogdanovic
Barnes/Oubre
Bagley/belinjca
Dedmon/Giles

Fill out the rest with our 2nd rounders and a get Cooley back
Click to expand...
I don't know if those numbers will get them but I like the depth. Good players on good contracts as opposed to blowing our load on 1 guy.
 
Entity

Entity

Hall of Famer
#20
#20
steelevt said:
I don't know if those numbers will get them but I like the depth. Good players on good contracts as opposed to blowing our load on 1 guy.
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Yeah I have decided on depth. I know he was a rookie but when Bagley went down last year. I truly believe that cost us the playoffs. We could not score at the end of quarters. I think with Barnes now with Bagley we can do that but depth at all positions like I have illustrated here really helps with a 2-3 week injury.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#21
#21
Entity said:
Barnes $18 mil
Dedmon $12 mil
Beverly $12 mil
Oubre $15 mil

Fox/Beverly
Hield/Bogdanovic
Barnes/Oubre
Bagley/belinjca
Dedmon/Giles

Fill out the rest with our 2nd rounders and a get Cooley back
Click to expand...
I like Demon at $12 mill. I just wonder if that number will get it done.
 
LPKingsFan

LPKingsFan

All-Star
#22
#22
Kingster said:
I like Demon at $12 mill. I just wonder if that number will get it done.
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Agreed, he’s been mentioned as an “under the radar” free agent so often already he’s likely landed on everyone’s radar by this point.

I’m also doubtful Beverly is attainable at that price as well, especially since the Kings can’t offer a starting role like some of the other teams reportedly interested (Dallas, Phoenix, both LA teams). The Kings would have to offer a big money deal early, while those teams look to their first options (like Russell), and I’m not sure that even works for the Kings logistically, given Barnes’ cap hold and the more pressing need to get a big man.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#25
#25
KingsSelecao said:
I would go hard after Tobias. He is a much better player than Barnes. Harris moves the needle for a playoff run. Barnes, does not. Harris will cost a little more. But, Everyone wants to pay Barnes 20 mil. The only team in the league paying him that kind of Money is Sac. No other team would be that stupid. Harris is also better than Vuc for the type of offense Sac runs.

I Love Beverly. I don't think he's coming to Sac, even with an overpay. He's older and is probably looking for a ring. He will probably take less to go to a contender. Sac is not close to competing, let alone getting into the playoffs.
Click to expand...
For this team I think Barnes is a much better option. He's willing to fade offensively and is a better defender. Harris might be slightly better as a number 1 option but neither are that here. Together I think they make the team impossible to match up with.
 
S

Sactown ExPat

Starter
#27
#27
twslam07 said:
Why isn't Kawhi an option? Look at our FA history in Sacramento.

The Clippers and Nets are both big markets. You can act like it doesn't matter but it does. Both teams made the playoffs last year as well (something we didn't do), and LA is Leonard's home town. Not to mention the team he was on just won a championship and can resign him as well.

  • If the big market doesn't matter, why would he choose Sacramento over Toronto? Toronto has a better team and gives him another shot at a title
  • If the big market does matter, why would he choose Sacramento over LA, BKN, or NY? All of those places are much bigger.
  • If winning matters, why would he choose Sacramento over LA, BKN, PHI, TOR? All of those teams made the playoffs. PHI took TOR to 7 games and TOR won the championship.
Why must we do this to ourselves? Kawhi is not a realistic option.
Click to expand...
Are they bigger than India?
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#29
#29
Sactown ExPat said:
Are they bigger than India?
Click to expand...
We are not playing in India. We are playing in Sacramento. The player will not be getting their off-court endorsements from India but from USA.

Basketball is not that popular in India. It's cricket first and soccer as a very distant second, then there is more daylight between soccer and basketball.

The size of the market is not just about the population. Its about other commercial aspects that players can maximize off the court.

Who do you think would make more money for say Nike (or any other company really) in India, Virat Kohli or Kawhi Leonard or even LeBron James. (here is a hint, it won't be the basketballers form that list)
 
S

Sactown ExPat

Starter
#30
#30
ParniValjak said:
We are not playing in India. We are playing in Sacramento. The player will not be getting their off-court endorsements from India but from USA.

Basketball is not that popular in India. It's cricket first and soccer as a very distant second, then there is more daylight between soccer and basketball.

The size of the market is not just about the population. Its about other commercial aspects that players can maximize off the court.

Who do you think would make more money for say Nike (or any other company really) in India, Virat Kohli or Kawhi Leonard or even LeBron James. (here is a hint, it won't be the basketballers form that list)
Click to expand...
Of course cricket, but the point is we need to think outside the box. Our home market is not limited to Sacramento/Stockton/Chico. Vivek wants to make a big push to use the Kings to expand the NBA in India. I imagine that is a pitch we could make to Kawhi and New Balance. If you read the AEG stuff regarding the Laker pitch to New Balance, you can see how asymmetric approaches can resonate.

Here’s the bottom line...I love my hometown and I’m not conceding anything to anybody besides the Lakers and Miami. Those two are free agent draws whether they have terrible management like Jeannie Buss or not. But, that’s it. Everyone else is on equal footing—even the NY teams. I’ve been to most NBA cities...they’re all fine, but we have no reason to take a backseat to anybody. Chicago is awesome but the weather sucks. Houston is amazing but the fans are oddly fairweather and mostly waiting for the Texans to be any good. The Warriors are about to divorce their real fans and will be hemorrhaging money as soon as they take a dip in form (i.e. when KD leaves—side note...if Lacob is as smart as he thinks he is he’ll sell the team shortly after next season). And on down the line. We’re talking about the Clippers and Nets landing the big free agents. The Clippers and Nets. They’ve been jokes almost my entire NBA life. But they got aggressive new owners and the narrative changed. We can land a big free agent if the Clippers and Nets can. Sacramento is not as small as most of us remember it being. It’s a shockingly large TV market these days, #20 in the country, and firmly mid-market. Guys like Kawhi and KD should want to play for us, and it’s their loss if they don’t.
 
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