C/PF off season discussion

E

ESP47

All-Star
#31
#31
I'm surprised some of you guys are wanting Brook Lopez. I think he's benefiting massively on defense from the size and length of that Bucks team.

His defensive box plus/minus has been horrible his entire career. Here's the stats from his rookie year onward...

1.2
.8
-.4
0
-.7
-.3
.2
-.4
.2
2.8 (!!!)

He has fools gold written all over him. Benefiting from the physical size and quickness of his teammates. He also hasn't grabbed more than 6.5 rebounds per36 in the last 3 years and has averaged 7.6 for his career. The Kings would get killed with this guy out there and his floor stretching and shot blocking abilities would not compensate for his awful defense and complete lack of rebounding. He's just a bad fit for nearly every team in the league other than the Bucks and I think the stats show it.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#32
#32
regularkingsfan said:
Would you mind posting the transition stats of Buddy, Fox and the bigs once again? The Athletic did an article about transition offense and what I got from it is that Buddy is great, WCS and Bagley are good and Fox is under-averaged.
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I can't remember which site I went to. It was one of the ones that had some really detailed stats but NBA.com has Buddy at 5.8 a game, Fox at 5.5 a game, Bagley is 2.7 a game, and Willie gets 2.2 a game on average. Willie scores less in transition than Demarcus Cousins. Those numbers aren't terrible and I think more so than Willie, Bagley could get up into that elite range when his 3 point shot comes. Willie I'm not sure. Only on a team where he can afford to leak out most likely. In the end Hield and Fox are the basis of the Kings fast breaking game. It's not a shock though when so much of the offense of the NBA is from behind the line and farther away from the hoop in general. Transition shots from outside are way more common place.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#33
#33
ESP47 said:
I'm surprised some of you guys are wanting Brook Lopez. I think he's benefiting massively on defense from the size and length of that Bucks team.

His defensive box plus/minus has been horrible his entire career. Here's the stats from his rookie year onward...

1.2
.8
-.4
0
-.7
-.3
.2
-.4
.2
2.8 (!!!)

He has fools gold written all over him. Benefiting from the physical size and quickness of his teammates. He also hasn't grabbed more than 6.5 rebounds per36 in the last 3 years and has averaged 7.6 for his career. The Kings would get killed with this guy out there and his floor stretching and shot blocking abilities would not compensate for his awful defense and complete lack of rebounding. He's just a bad fit for nearly every team in the league other than the Bucks and I think the stats show it.
Click to expand...
It's also shows you have good their coach is. It's all moot anyway, it's doubtful they let him go, and/or he looks to leave.
 
LPKingsFan

LPKingsFan

All-Star
#35
#35
funkykingston said:
I think the goal should be to have Bagley be the starting center next season.

If so I think the best move is to have a big bruiser as his backup. And to not blow a ton of salary cap to do so.
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Was thinking the exact same thing. If Bagley and Giles are your primary bigs, then the secondary roles that make the most sense are stretch (Bjelica) and a bruiser type. Brook Lopez actually could fit both of those roles, but I don’t think he’s as easily acquired as others seem to think.
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#36
#36
funkykingston said:
I think the goal should be to have Bagley be the starting center next season.

If so I think the best move is to have a big bruiser as his backup. And to not blow a ton of salary cap to do so.
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Think a lot depends on what the plan is with Giles for the short and long-term. If we think he's ready to go next season, then you dont invest in a max contract to Vuc. And then if the plan is to start him or keep him as the 3rd big changes who you want to add to that bigs rotation.

OR if the plan is to Bagley at C, Barnes at PF, that changes things again too. This is such a talented FA class and the Kings can set themselves up so well for any route they decide to take.
 
KingsSelecao

KingsSelecao

Bench
#37
#37
I don’t think Bagley can be a FT Center. Just based on his build. He’s super skinny and narrow. His Ectomorphic frame has limitiations.
No matter how much he hits the weights.

He will always have problems with bigger Centers: Adams, Embiid, Jokic, Davis, Cuz, Gobert,
Etc.

Better for him to start developing an outside game and Kings pick up a FA Center.
 
SLAB

SLAB

Hall of Famer
#38
#38
I have a sinking feeling his market won’t be very strong and they’re going to bid against themselves for Willie.

Prove me wrong Vlade.
 
Last edited:
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#39
#39
KingsSelecao said:
I don’t think Bagley can be a FT Center. Just based on his build. He’s super skinny and narrow. His Ectomorphic frame has limitiations.
No matter how much he hits the weights.

He will always have problems with bigger Centers: Adams, Embiid, Jokic, Davis, Cuz, Gobert,
Etc.

Better for him to start developing an outside game and Kings pick up a FA Center.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that will be the case. When he's had the chance to guard them he's shown a willingness to use his athletic ability and motor to make up the difference. I think one of the most impressive defensive plays of the season was him blocking Adams at the rim when he tried to post up Bagley. Bagley has such a quick second jump that he has a legit chance of blocking almost any shot that isn't a hook or fadeaway. And also you have to factor in how much of a nightmare it will be for them to guard him. Before seasons end I would consider it a failure at this point to not try Bagley in place of Willie for a few games.
 
Kings_of_California

Kings_of_California

Starter
#40
#40
I like the idea of JV. Having watched some Memphis games lately, the guy is an absolute bruiser. He's a banger in the paint, and his offensive game is versatile. He's younger than a lot of other guys on the list too. He's a strong and solid paint/post defender too.

I just like him a lot. He'd be an upgrade over WCS in every category besides speed/vertical.
 
SLAB

SLAB

Hall of Famer
#45
#45
The_Jamal said:
Harry making me believe all of this a moot point and we should be looking for competent back-ups: Nerlens Noel, Holmes, Vonleh types.
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Give me Nerlens Noel as our cheaper WCS 3rd big replacement, and let Giles off the leash and I’m 1000% happy.

Would still need a larger bodied bruiser (Sup, Robin Lopez type guy) to compliment the Giles/Bags/Noel trio.
 
G

Gguod

Bench
#46
#46
kingsfan1984 said:
Serious question, is WCS better than Javael McGee? If WCS costs say 10Mil, and McGee 2 or 3mil, who would you rather have?
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Even if Willy was better, if Javale is 5 times cheaper then its a no brainer. Willy doesnt produce 5 times more value than McGee. And thats about the whole point of this center discussion. When you can get players like McGee for few mil and guys like Harris or Dedmond for ~6-8mil, you should never pay an average guy like Willy or Valenciunas 10-15mil, absolutely never.
 
kingsfan1984

kingsfan1984

Starter
#47
#47
Gguod said:
Even if Willy was better, if Javale is 5 times cheaper then its a no brainer. Willy doesnt produce 5 times more value than McGee. And thats about the whole point of this center discussion. When you can get players like McGee for few mil and guys like Harris or Dedmond for ~6-8mil, you should never pay an average guy like Willy or Valenciunas 10-15mil, absolutely never.
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Sums it up nicely
 
kingsboi

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#50
#50
Tetsujin said:
Miro would be an ideal fit as a third big on this team.

Sorta redundant with Bjeli but he's pretty much a rich man's version of the guy (and a couple of years younger than him) and can play with either Harry or Bagley too.
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Niko also doesn't pump fake into oblivion and pass up open three's. when he's open, he lets it go, time and time again.
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#52
#52
Tetsujin said:
Miro would be an ideal fit as a third big on this team.

Sorta redundant with Bjeli but he's pretty much a rich man's version of the guy (and a couple of years younger than him) and can play with either Harry or Bagley too.
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I almost think Bjeli and Miro could work together. Offensively, it'd be unreal spacing obviously and really strong fits off the Fox drive and kick, but Bjeli is probably better defensively at the 5 where he can use his sneaky good rim protection. Can't remember many times where he's been straight out-muscled in the post either and is probably our 2nd "strongest" big outside of Koufos with regards to not getting pushed around in the post.

Def like having the flexibility to go to a Fox-Buddy-Barnes-Miro-Bagley crunch time lineup. That could do some serious damage offensively
 
2

206Fan

All-Star
#53
#53
mac said:
What do we need to do to get Lauri Markannen?
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The Bulls are a rebuilding team, so they'd want a young player of equal value back. It would cross off Hield because he's an old man. For Markkanen, it would cost nothing short of Bagley. I'm not sure if Chicago would accept a package around Bagley.

21 yearold averaging 18.7pts 8.9rebs on 43.3/35.9/86.7.
 
Kingsfan23

Kingsfan23

All-Star
#54
#54
206Fan said:
The Bulls are a rebuilding team, so they'd want a young player of equal value back. It would cross off Hield because he's an old man. For Markkanen, it would cost nothing short of Bagley. I'm not sure if Chicago would accept a package around Bagley.

21 yearold averaging 18.7pts 8.9rebs on 43.3/35.9/86.7.
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I’m not sure Sacramento would accept the package
 
Sac.1989

Sac.1989

Starter
#59
#59
If the market backs off and cousins can be had for cheap I think we have to consider it.

Still very productive and can stretch the floor.

If we're considering Lopez, I'd put Cousins in there also
 
SLAB

SLAB

Hall of Famer
#60
#60
Sac.1989 said:
If the market backs off and cousins can be had for cheap I think we have to consider it.

Still very productive and can stretch the floor.

If we're considering Lopez, I'd put Cousins in there also
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I want Cousins back so bad.

Carmichael Dave opined the Kings May kick the tires at some point and I’ve been dreaming about it since. Lol

The trio of he, Bagley and Giles would be nightmare inducing. With Fox running around and Buddy shooting? My gawd.
 
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