C/PF off season discussion

[Showtime]

This thread is for discussing potential moves for another big. If you think the Kings should retain WCS, that can be discussed as well. I'll focus on free agents, but feel free to discuss deals for other bigs.

List of 2019 free agents
List of NBA team salaries
Team Salary Cap info

1: Nikola Vucevic. Overall talent, All-Star calibre center, averaging 20/12/4 who is a legit 7'0". Can pass, shoot, work on the block, and can demand a double team. Currently, the kings rely on spacing to get open shots a lot, which is why they've played stretch 4's all year long. WCS is not an offensive threat. With a C who can demand attention, it provides even better ability to space when the double comes. If not, he can score on just about anybody.

2. Jonas Valanciunas: Another skilled C, the guy can score, rebound, and take up space inside. He's played a lot off the bench, but since being traded to Memphis he's started most games and averaging 19/9. He flies under the radar, but the Kings definitely have a shot at him since some of the other bigger names might get more attention. Kings would be wise to consider him if they are unable to get Vucevic.

3. Hassan Whiteside. The book is out on him, and no he's not going to ever be a scorer, but he provides everything this team doesn't have: a massive inside presence that gobbles up rebounds and is a league leader in shot blocking. If the Kings end up starting Bagley, having him there as a help defender and rim protector and offensive rebounder would make a frontline duo that might be one of the most dominating in the league.

Notables:

"Why not Al Horford?" I like Al, but I don't think he provides the bigger defensive presence that will be needed, and the Kings would probably have to overpay to get him. At his price point, I think the Kings could add more to their roster.

"What about Marc Gasol?" Love the guy, but he's getting long in the tooth and his durability and production might be there, or it might not. Plus, if Toronto gets to the conference finals or finals, I could see them looking to retain his services.

"Brook Lopez?" Ah yes, the 7' Center who averages 4 rebounds a game...

"Demarcu-" Nope. Love the guy, but we had enough time to make it work, and he's not going to work. Don't want him in this locker room. Let somebody else handle his baggage.

"Deandre Jordan?" He's had issues with his role in the past, and I'm not sure if Dallas would be interested in keeping him. He's a Texas guy and had drama with leaving LA to go there previously. While he can produce, I'm not sure if he's going to be another malcontent if things aren't going his way. He may want to play on a contender or with another superstar as his career is on the downside. With Dallas having a frontcourt of Doncic, Porz, and DJ, they might re-sign him to see what that frontcourt can do. But if not, I could see other big FA players looking to add him (Clippers, NYC, etc).

 

[206Fan]

I really like Vucevic's offense and he would expand the game for Fox, Bagley Buddy, and Bogdan. Good scorer, average shooter, great passer, good rebounder, but defense is questionable. Can he switch onto the perimeter? I know he's improved on defense this year, but would it be enough for this team?

JV isn't as good as Vucevic on offense, but he's more than solid. He's a better all-around defensive player than Vucevic which is exactly what this team needs. Average scorer, good rebounder, and average defender.

I think I would go with JV. He'll be cheaper and might fit into more of what we need on defense. Whiteside has a PO, not sure if I see him declining 27million for next year.

 

[SacTownKid]

I think the most realistic target of that top 3 is probably JV. Vucevic is playing too well in his go to role and the Kings couldn't give him the same opportunities plus he'll have a ton of suitors. Whiteside, yeah, don't see that happening. Nor do I want it to honestly. Not that he wouldn't be an upgrade in a lot of areas but if you watch him you can see he gets exposed in pick and roll badly these days. Deandre Jordan is a viable option. I think he and Fox would make a great duo and he's most importantly one of the best screen bigs in the game. Those curl plays for Buddy and Bogdan would be open looks or switches every time with Jordan setting the pick. Horford, I'm not sure he opts out of that deal. Could he realistically get close to that 30 million? Maybe I guess but that's a gamble for him.

I'm going to throw an underrated name that might not jump out to anyone except those who wanted the Kings to draft him a few years ago but someone I think the Kings might be wise to target for their front court is Jordan Bell. He's gotten squashed by the Dubs lately (I think they are partly hiding him) but he has unreal potential to be a top notch multi-positional defender that also has skills passing wise and is a very good shot blocker himself. He is skilled enough to play alongside Bagley in a double 4/5 combo front court. In pick and roll he's a nightmare. He's not a great rebounder but a lineup of Barnes, Bell, and Bagley should be more than fine on the boards. More importantly they would be insane defensively. The Warriors have a lot to figure out this summer so you could realistically snag him without much fight from them.

 

[The_Jamal]

I think the most realistic target of that top 3 is probably JV. Vucevic is playing too well in his go to role and the Kings couldn't give him the same opportunities plus he'll have a ton of suitors. Whiteside, yeah, don't see that happening. Nor do I want it to honestly. Not that he wouldn't be an upgrade in a lot of areas but if you watch him you can see he gets exposed in pick and roll badly these days. Deandre Jordan is a viable option. I think he and Fox would make a great duo and he's most importantly one of the best screen bigs in the game. Those curl plays for Buddy and Bogdan would be open looks or switches every time with Jordan setting the pick. Horford, I'm not sure he opts out of that deal. Could he realistically get close to that 30 million? Maybe I guess but that's a gamble for him.

I'm going to throw an underrated name that might not jump out to anyone except those who wanted the Kings to draft him a few years ago but someone I think the Kings might be wise to target for their front court is Jordan Bell. He's gotten squashed by the Dubs lately (I think they are partly hiding him) but he has unreal potential to be a top notch multi-positional defender that also has skills passing wise and is a very good shot blocker himself. He is skilled enough to play alongside Bagley in a double 4/5 combo front court. In pick and roll he's a nightmare. He's not a great rebounder but a lineup of Barnes, Bell, and Bagley should be more than fine on the boards. More importantly they would be insane defensively. The Warriors have a lot to figure out this summer so you could realistically snag him without much fight from them.

Love it. I completely forgot he's heading to RFA already. I was super high on Bell coming out and he's displayed all the skills us proponents of him thought he would as a pro. The switch-ability of him and Bagley and Giles would be amazing on defense and I think you can interchangeably use him with any of Giles, Bagley or Bjelica. Basically, I think he can be exactly what people want from WCS: a true rim-protector, a great rim runner, doesn't get out of line offensively, defend out to the perimeter on switches. Think he'd be an instant fan favorite with how hard he plays too He's also an underrated passer with a 16.9% and 12.8% AST rates the past 2 seasons.

It's a great point that they probably would have to let him go if he we offered $8-$10 mil a season, especially if we came out of the gates at the start of FA and put them to a decision quickly. Also just from a pure entertainment value, watching GIles/Bagley/Bell all year would be a blast to watch. Probably would be some dumb mistakes, but we wouldn't see a lack of effort or hustle.

 

[The_Jamal]

Pretty good look at what Bell does. Contests everything, insane athleticism, great motor, has real skills as a rim runner, can operate within the offense as a good passer. I think especially the fact we can pair him with 2 talented offensive bigs pretty much at any time, he'd be free to do what he does best.

 

[White_Chocolate]

I would like for us to take a long hard look at Taj Gibson if we decide to give Giles starters minutes alongside Bagley. I like what he brings energy wise to a team.

 

[Section 101]

Give Vucevic a 3 year $60-75 mil deal.

 

[ockingsfan]

I think the Kings will re-sign WCS, unless he gets a super high contract offer. I think anywhere between 10-15 million a year contract and the Kings would match. If WCS gets a 18-20 mil/year offer, I think the Kings let him walk.

I would think that if we don't re-sign WCS, we need to go after a 3 point threat at Center, so Joeger can start Bagley at PF.

I think that Vucevic would be the home run signing, even over WCS, but he will have many suitors and will be hard to sign.

If he is not attainable, I would go after Brook Lopez. Even though he has a low rebounding rate, he still offers some rim protection and has become a good 3 point shooter. Bagley would probably grab most of the rebounds and average 10-12 rebounds per game as a starter anyways. The Bucks have thrown big money at Giannis, Bledsoe and will do so for Middleton so they may not be able to afford to keep Lopez. Lopez would fill in nicely for the next 2-3 years, until Giles is ready to start.

 

[The_Jamal]

I think the Kings will re-sign WCS, unless he gets a super high contract offer. I think anywhere between 10-15 million a year contract and the Kings would match. If WCS gets a 18-20 mil/year offer, I think the Kings let him walk.

I would think that if we don't re-sign WCS, we need to go after a 3 point threat at Center, so Joeger can start Bagley at PF.

I think that Vucevic would be the home run signing, even over WCS, but he will have many suitors and will be hard to sign.

If he is not attainable, I would go after Brook Lopez. Even though he has a low rebounding rate, he still offers some rim protection and has become a good 3 point shooter. Bagley would probably grab most of the rebounds and average 10-12 rebounds per game as a starter anyways. The Bucks have thrown big money at Giannis, Bledsoe and will do so for Middleton so they may not be able to afford to keep Lopez. Lopez would fill in nicely for the next 2-3 years, until Giles is ready to start.

Brolo would be a major home-run too. If you've watched any of Milwaukee, his stats almost don't matter (even though he's still putting up a good year). His gravity on the floor changes everything about how a defense can defend and you're essentially removing the rim protection from the game. He'd make Fox/Buddy/Bogdan all better as our lead-ball-handlers and give them space to create off the bounce.

I love Vuc and think he's a complete stud, but I dont think it makes sense to max him for 4 years (which is going to be his tag), when we have Giles waiting in the wings to soak up big minutes possibly as soon as next year. BroLo is a perfect bridge to Giles and brings a lot of the same elements that we want/need.

Think you could probably get Brolo and Bojan for close to the same price as Vuc. And likely wont have to commit 4 years to either.

 

[Section 101]

Brolo would be a major home-run too. If you've watched any of Milwaukee, his stats almost don't matter (even though he's still putting up a good year). His gravity on the floor changes everything about how a defense can defend and you're essentially removing the rim protection from the game. He'd make Fox/Buddy/Bogdan all better as our lead-ball-handlers and give them space to create off the bounce.

I love Vuc and think he's a complete stud, but I dont think it makes sense to max him for 4 years (which is going to be his tag), when we have Giles waiting in the wings to soak up big minutes possibly as soon as next year. BroLo is a perfect bridge to Giles and brings a lot of the same elements that we want/need.

Think you could probably get Brolo and Bojan for close to the same price as Vuc. And likely wont have to commit 4 years to either.

You know they have these things called trades. I wouldn't worry about a 4th year if that is what it takes.

 

[SacTownKid]

I think the Kings will re-sign WCS, unless he gets a super high contract offer. I think anywhere between 10-15 million a year contract and the Kings would match. If WCS gets a 18-20 mil/year offer, I think the Kings let him walk.

I would think that if we don't re-sign WCS, we need to go after a 3 point threat at Center, so Joeger can start Bagley at PF.

I think that Vucevic would be the home run signing, even over WCS, but he will have many suitors and will be hard to sign.

If he is not attainable, I would go after Brook Lopez. Even though he has a low rebounding rate, he still offers some rim protection and has become a good 3 point shooter. Bagley would probably grab most of the rebounds and average 10-12 rebounds per game as a starter anyways. The Bucks have thrown big money at Giannis, Bledsoe and will do so for Middleton so they may not be able to afford to keep Lopez. Lopez would fill in nicely for the next 2-3 years, until Giles is ready to start.

If they are considering re-signing Willie I really hope they delve deep into the potential of their front court as a tandem. As of now, I still don't see many benefits of playing Bagley and Willie together and that's a huge issue moving forward. I'd hate to see them make another Jason Thompson level move where you have clear needs in your front court along with all the pieces of that front court not being totally interchangeable. There was a thought process about re-signing JT back then and how necessary it was. It ended up being a mistake because again, while in a cumulative sense all the FC pieces looked decent, they weren't interchangeable and were somewhat duplicative. I personally think that Bagley is going to spend quite a bit of his minutes at C starting next year because of pure necessity in relation to todays game in general as well as how much more effective it will make the team offensively. I do however think players like Valencunias or Deandre Jordan bring certain things such as bulk, pick and roll play, screen setting, and interior physical rebounding that the team doesn't have currently so even in a worst case scenario they wouldn't be a total loss.

 

[SacTownKid]

Give Vucevic a 3 year $60-75 mil deal.

There's too much money out there and the issue I see is that the Magic have every incentive to make him an offer to stay. If he left the Magic don't gain enough realistic cap space to make it worth their while. Then there is the smoke with the Mavs that's persisted since they gutted their team for space. Vlade would have to have some sort of inside track for a deal like that to fly.

 

[kingsboi]

Kings hopefully throw some big money Vucevic's way and maybe Vlade and Peja can make a pitch for him and convince him that he can help this team more than he can help the Magic. After that, I wouldn't mind making a play for Whiteside either if they strike out on Vucevic, albeit he doesn't spread the floor and he is slow so he would get fatigued quickly playing with Fox so maybe that wouldn't be the best approach.

 

[Gguod]

"Brook Lopez?" Ah yes, the 7' Center who averages 4 rebounds a game...

Brook Lopez makes your team a good rebounding team, he has one of the best box out stats in the whole league and usually when he is on the floor, his team has a good DREB%. Rebounding for him is a positive, not negative.

Imo throwing huge money in Center position isnt smart. The difference of produced value isnt huge between slightly above average center and the 18th-25th center. Smart play is to let the market play out and get the guy thats cheap and can contribute enough. Then use that money for a position that is more valuable (versatile wing).

We also have players like Bagley and Giles who should be more than capable playing minutes at center. Wouldn't be wise to devote too much recources on that position when a)you can find quality production for cheap and b)you already have spent recources on players that can and should play minutes at center.

 

[Sactown ExPat]

How about trading for Aaron Gordon to play the 4? He could finally fulfill his destiny of being this generation’s Shawn Marion, create a great defensive unit in conjunction with Barnes/Fox, spread the floor just enough to give Bagley/Fox space, and that depreciating contract is going to be very cap friendly in a year or two.

 

[Swipa]

Can Vucevic run though?

Also, DeAndre Jordan plays for the Knicks!

 

[NME]

Can Vucevic run though?

The first thing you need to run in most cases is to grab the defensive rebound. He can definitely do that. All five guys don't need to beat their man down the court to have an effective fastbreak.

 

[SacTownKid]

The first thing you need to run in most cases is to grab the defensive rebound. He can definitely do that. All five guys don't need to beat their man down the court to have an effective fastbreak.

Exactly. One misnomer in relation to fast paced ball is the belief that you have to have nothing but super athletic bigs to make it work. Having a big that can first secure the rebound and then trail the play with the ability to shoot from 3 is probably more potent for a team like this. I posted the stats before, the full court play of the Kings has two names and two alone, Buddy Hield and De'Aaron Fox. They are both near the tops in fast break points scored per game. The Kings Bigs are waaay down below on that list.

 

[Iced Espresso]

WCS at the right price.

Otherwise I'll toss some loot at Brook Lopez.

 

[Section 101]

WCS at the right price.

Otherwise I'll toss some loot at Brook Lopez.

Right price is WCS paying to stay.

 

[kingsfan1984]

Brook Lopez makes your team a good rebounding team, he has one of the best box out stats in the whole league and usually when he is on the floor, his team has a good DREB%. Rebounding for him is a positive, not negative.

Imo throwing huge money in Center position isnt smart. The difference of produced value isnt huge between slightly above average center and the 18th-25th center. Smart play is to let the market play out and get the guy thats cheap and can contribute enough. Then use that money for a position that is more valuable (versatile wing).

We also have players like Bagley and Giles who should be more than capable playing minutes at center. Wouldn't be wise to devote too much recources on that position when a)you can find quality production for cheap and b)you already have spent recources on players that can and should play minutes at center.

Great thoughts. Dont spend big on the center spot. Use that money to add a wing. There is a ton of under the radar type guys that would fit nicely at center for when we need a bigger body.

Brook Lopez would be perfect assuming his cost is low. Giles and Bagley are our go to threats, in rookie years looking dominant. Next year even better. We dont need spend big to make this down low threat redundant.

Every year there are guys like Lopez, Jordan, Chandler, McGee etc that provide what we lack.

I would love to see us pick up Bell. I have an affinity to high energy defensive players. If we could have Bell and Troy William's on floor at same time the opposition's minds would explode

 

[kingsfan1984]

How about Holmes on a cheaper deal than WcS?

 

[The_Jamal]

How about Holmes on a cheaper deal than WcS?

Exactly. Nerlens Noel, Vuc, Brook Lopez, Noah Vonleh, Ed Davis, Jordan Bell, Robin Lopez, Holmes

Center depth is incredibly deep in this FA class and is a big reason we need to stay price sensitive with WCS. Can essentially get WCS production from a bunch of different guys at probably a cheaper tag AND not having to commit to a long-term deal.

 

[Kingster]

I'm going to throw an underrated name that might not jump out to anyone except those who wanted the Kings to draft him a few years ago but someone I think the Kings might be wise to target for their front court is Jordan Bell. He's gotten squashed by the Dubs lately (I think they are partly hiding him) but he has unreal potential to be a top notch multi-positional defender that also has skills passing wise and is a very good shot blocker himself. He is skilled enough to play alongside Bagley in a double 4/5 combo front court. In pick and roll he's a nightmare. He's not a great rebounder but a lineup of Barnes, Bell, and Bagley should be more than fine on the boards. More importantly they would be insane defensively. The Warriors have a lot to figure out this summer so you could realistically snag him without much fight from them.

I like coming up with a name that is not on everyone's wish list, but who could be a valuable asset for the Kings.

 

[Kingster]

Pretty good look at what Bell does. Contests everything, insane athleticism, great motor, has real skills as a rim runner, can operate within the offense as a good passer. I think especially the fact we can pair him with 2 talented offensive bigs pretty much at any time, he'd be free to do what he does best.

I sure like those chase down blocks.

 

[Kingster]

Exactly. One misnomer in relation to fast paced ball is the belief that you have to have nothing but super athletic bigs to make it work. Having a big that can first secure the rebound and then trail the play with the ability to shoot from 3 is probably more potent for a team like this. I posted the stats before, the full court play of the Kings has two names and two alone, Buddy Hield and De'Aaron Fox. They are both near the tops in fast break points scored per game. The Kings Bigs are waaay down below on that list.

Agreed. I'll take a big who can secure a defensive rebound and throw an outlet pass any day over a very fast big who can't.

 

[The Effort Police]

I'm definitely starting to warm up to the idea of Brook Lopez.

Good floor spacer, rim protector, low usage. I think he fits well if you move Bagley into the starters, let Fox, Buddy, Bagley as the key cogs and have Barnes and Lopez be defensive minded shooters who won't demand the ball.

 

[Sac.1989]

We need to space the floor with a C/PF.

Bagley's 3 will get better with time however spacing the floor is a huge part of our system and joerger's insistance on playing Barnes at the 4 is in part due to his shooting.

We absolutely need a 5 who can space the floor and rebound

 

[NME]

It may not seem ideal to spend a lot on a center when you have Bagley and Giles on the ascent but right now there is a select group of guys, who have probably all been mentioned in this thread, that can fully complement Bagley and give him space to reach his potential. He needs a running mate who can provide perimeter offense and interior defense. Hopefully, either Giles will become that complement or Bagley will develop his all-around game to the point that you CAN throw almost any variety of decent big man next to him. For now, I think you need to invest whatever it takes to get the best possible pairing, even if that means a year of cap hell when that contract overlaps with Bagley's extension.

 

[regularkingsfan]

Exactly. One misnomer in relation to fast paced ball is the belief that you have to have nothing but super athletic bigs to make it work. Having a big that can first secure the rebound and then trail the play with the ability to shoot from 3 is probably more potent for a team like this. I posted the stats before, the full court play of the Kings has two names and two alone, Buddy Hield and De'Aaron Fox. They are both near the tops in fast break points scored per game. The Kings Bigs are waaay down below on that list.

Would you mind posting the transition stats of Buddy, Fox and the bigs once again? The Athletic did an article about transition offense and what I got from it is that Buddy is great, WCS and Bagley are good and Fox is under-averaged.