Starting lineup going forward - Fox, Buddy, Bogs, Barnes, WCS
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Almost all people who follow basketball, some for a living, disagreed with you. Your prediction taken into consideration still doesn’t change the remarkable fact that the coach completely redid the team in a few months. He has been able to maximize their talents. Credit where it is due.
Based on his great work, I’m going to go with his, professional and tested, leadership.
Based on his great work, I’m going to go with his, professional and tested, leadership.
This sums up my thoughts as well. I mostly disagree with you sactowndawg on Joerger as I think you are consistently critical of him and just flat out don't seem to like Joerger.........but guess what that's fine and like you said isn't that the whole point of a message board? To have actual discussion, argument, and difference of opinion.
VF21 lets be honest you do tend to go after anybody that is remotely critical of the Kings. A discussion board can't be all positive all the time or what would be the point?
I post mostly positive stuff on here and sure enough the few times I make a minor quibble about Joerger treatment of Kayte or dare praise Luka and question the Kings for not drafting him......I also get labeled as one of the fans looking to create drama or create negativity. That's bogus. It's possible to be a fan of some things, praise some things, question some things, and criticize some things.
VF21 lets be honest you do tend to go after anybody that is remotely critical of the Kings. A discussion board can't be all positive all the time or what would be the point?
I post mostly positive stuff on here and sure enough the few times I make a minor quibble about Joerger treatment of Kayte or dare praise Luka and question the Kings for not drafting him......I also get labeled as one of the fans looking to create drama or create negativity. That's bogus. It's possible to be a fan of some things, praise some things, question some things, and criticize some things.
Haha. You should have seen me versus the Boston Celtics fans on RealGM when I said the Kings would finish around the Lakers pick at the start of the year. 
In this case a few people in addition to me hate the new line-up.
In this case a few people in addition to me hate the new line-up.
Fwiw, I've always hated small ball, but with the way this team is built it could work. I'm gonna wait it out before I pick a side on this one!
And good on yah for taking it to those Celtics fans on Realgm. Friggin pick vultures!
Yes of course. But what’s the point of stating a position after the fact. That’s kind of boring...
In my case, it just seems the front office is building a team with bigs and Joeger is going small. They don’t appear to be on the same page. And given Bogi’s and Barne’s shooting slump seems really odd.
In my case, it just seems the front office is building a team with bigs and Joeger is going small. They don’t appear to be on the same page. And given Bogi’s and Barne’s shooting slump seems really odd.
IMO this is probably the correct starting lineup. Or at least this lineup has the guys in it that should play the most minutes (Fox, Buddy, Bogdan and Barnes). Bagley is a rookie so he is naturally inconsistent, some nights he contributes to winning and some nights he doesnt. When he plays well he should be there instead of Willy in the closing lineup.
I'm also glad that Joeger sees Barnes as a "pf" and recognizes that we still need more wings. If and when we want to be a succesful playoff team, I would say we have a better chance if we have two legitimate wings and Bagley as a center majority of the game. First of all the the additional spacing is very important. Also the more wing sized perimeter defenders you have on the floor against these western conference playoff teams, the better. In the playoffs the more you can switch the less you give up easy points in the pick n roll when the opponent really gameplans against your weakest defenders.
A team should also have other options in the rotation like bigger centers ect if the matchup demands that but for the most part its better to have two versatile wings on the floor rather than one wing and one traditional pf.
I'm also glad that Joeger sees Barnes as a "pf" and recognizes that we still need more wings. If and when we want to be a succesful playoff team, I would say we have a better chance if we have two legitimate wings and Bagley as a center majority of the game. First of all the the additional spacing is very important. Also the more wing sized perimeter defenders you have on the floor against these western conference playoff teams, the better. In the playoffs the more you can switch the less you give up easy points in the pick n roll when the opponent really gameplans against your weakest defenders.
A team should also have other options in the rotation like bigger centers ect if the matchup demands that but for the most part its better to have two versatile wings on the floor rather than one wing and one traditional pf.
Well, as far as stating a position after the fact. ... I've already eaten a lot of crow this season, it's made me a cautious cat! Even my game thread hot takes are at an all time low!
As far as coach going small on a team full of bigs...
Bagley is amazing, but his lack of shooting is keeping him on the bench. He'll get there, as his rate of improvement has been pretty incredible. Not this year though.
Kosta has been awful this season.
Bjeli has been pretty bad after his hot start.
Giles is flashing good stuff, but isn't ready.
WCS is what he is, and the spacing would be terrible if you start him and Bagley together.
With this roster, Barnes at the 4 isn't the end of the world, although I do see it as a stop-gap solution. Moving forward, we need Fox and Bagley to develop consistent outside shooting. Until then, a stretch 4 is kinda crucial for spacing. It's just unfortunate that said stretch 4 happens to be a SF. Like I said in another post, I'm no fan of small ball, but I can see why Joerger is doing this.
As far as coach going small on a team full of bigs...
Bagley is amazing, but his lack of shooting is keeping him on the bench. He'll get there, as his rate of improvement has been pretty incredible. Not this year though.
Kosta has been awful this season.
Bjeli has been pretty bad after his hot start.
Giles is flashing good stuff, but isn't ready.
WCS is what he is, and the spacing would be terrible if you start him and Bagley together.
With this roster, Barnes at the 4 isn't the end of the world, although I do see it as a stop-gap solution. Moving forward, we need Fox and Bagley to develop consistent outside shooting. Until then, a stretch 4 is kinda crucial for spacing. It's just unfortunate that said stretch 4 happens to be a SF. Like I said in another post, I'm no fan of small ball, but I can see why Joerger is doing this.
People keep saying this statement but the facts just don’t support it.
Yes, Beli can run hot and cold but in the last 10 games he has been hot. By virtually any metric, Barnes is the worst possible choice at power forward and Bogi is worse at the 3. But we all know Joeger gets an infatuation with a player and plays him extended minutes regardless. Last year it was ZBo and this year it is Barnes.
Net Rating:
Bagley: 2.4
Beli: 2.0
Barnes: 1.8
Bogi: -4.1
Giles 4.2
Effective Field Goal Percentage
Bagley: 48.9%
Beli: 57.9%
Barnes: 43.9%
Bogi: 41.7%
Giles 52.7%
Rebound Percentage
Bagley 14.7%
Beli 12.5%
Barnes 8.7%
Bogi 5.3%
Giles 12.7%
Player Impact Estimate
Bagley 13.9
Beli 8.9
Barnes 8.4
Bogi 8.2
Giles 10.1
Yes, Beli can run hot and cold but in the last 10 games he has been hot. By virtually any metric, Barnes is the worst possible choice at power forward and Bogi is worse at the 3. But we all know Joeger gets an infatuation with a player and plays him extended minutes regardless. Last year it was ZBo and this year it is Barnes.
Net Rating:
Bagley: 2.4
Beli: 2.0
Barnes: 1.8
Bogi: -4.1
Giles 4.2
Effective Field Goal Percentage
Bagley: 48.9%
Beli: 57.9%
Barnes: 43.9%
Bogi: 41.7%
Giles 52.7%
Rebound Percentage
Bagley 14.7%
Beli 12.5%
Barnes 8.7%
Bogi 5.3%
Giles 12.7%
Player Impact Estimate
Bagley 13.9
Beli 8.9
Barnes 8.4
Bogi 8.2
Giles 10.1
Effective Field Goal Percentage
Bagley: 48.9%
Beli: 57.9%
Barnes: 43.9%
Bogi: 41.7%
Giles 52.7%
3 Point Shooting %
Bagley 21.1%
Beli 46.9%
Barnes 28.0%
Bogi 18.2%
Giles (who knows as DJ won’t allow him to shoot).
In the last 10 games the Kings 3 point shooting percentage has plummeted. Largely because Barnes and Bogi are in dreadful slumps. Joeger benching the only guy with a hot hand and you say we have Bogi and Beli out there for spacing??????
Bagley: 48.9%
Beli: 57.9%
Barnes: 43.9%
Bogi: 41.7%
Giles 52.7%
3 Point Shooting %
Bagley 21.1%
Beli 46.9%
Barnes 28.0%
Bogi 18.2%
Giles (who knows as DJ won’t allow him to shoot).
In the last 10 games the Kings 3 point shooting percentage has plummeted. Largely because Barnes and Bogi are in dreadful slumps. Joeger benching the only guy with a hot hand and you say we have Bogi and Beli out there for spacing??????
Thread maybe needs to be retitled - because it is basically a one man "I hate Joerger" show. Full of absolutes from a person who apparently has current NBA coaches as personal buddies who secretly agree with him over beers. Because I haven't seen any quotes from NBA coaches this year about Joerger other than "he's doing a hell of a job" or... "he's doing an excpetional job" or.. "he's doing a really great job". I haven't seen a quote from another NBA coach that would suggest "oh with the stockpile of young talent he inherited he's running about par". I would like to see them. I would like to see which NBA coach would claim an ability to do better. One, single, example.
The Joerger hate is so random I just wonder if he was rude to somebody in traffic and their revenge is to post repetitive negative stuff about him on twitter and message boards. We have not had a good coach since Adelman (not counting Karl because I don't think he had a fair chance to run the team... just imagine if they had let him trade prime Boogie back when he wanted to). Now we have one, sniffing the playoffs with a team national press deemed the dregs of the league, likely to finish dead last - and there are posters who assign childish motivations to him (he just LOOOVES some certain mediocre player irrationally) and assume he has the most simplistic thought processes.
Nobody remembers Dave saying "this is a three year process" right after the Boogie trade? It seemed somewhat obvious to me that last year was an 82 game training camp where vets teach youth about toughness grit and fundamentals - this year was about playing young and fast and getting their feet under them - and next year will be about serious contending.
I like the starting lineup and am anxious to see it play out. And I admit 100% that I am biased. I love Dave Joerger and Vlade Divac. I'm rooting for them to shove it down their detractors' throats. So I'm not objective.
The Joerger hate is so random I just wonder if he was rude to somebody in traffic and their revenge is to post repetitive negative stuff about him on twitter and message boards. We have not had a good coach since Adelman (not counting Karl because I don't think he had a fair chance to run the team... just imagine if they had let him trade prime Boogie back when he wanted to). Now we have one, sniffing the playoffs with a team national press deemed the dregs of the league, likely to finish dead last - and there are posters who assign childish motivations to him (he just LOOOVES some certain mediocre player irrationally) and assume he has the most simplistic thought processes.
Nobody remembers Dave saying "this is a three year process" right after the Boogie trade? It seemed somewhat obvious to me that last year was an 82 game training camp where vets teach youth about toughness grit and fundamentals - this year was about playing young and fast and getting their feet under them - and next year will be about serious contending.
I like the starting lineup and am anxious to see it play out. And I admit 100% that I am biased. I love Dave Joerger and Vlade Divac. I'm rooting for them to shove it down their detractors' throats. So I'm not objective.
I agree with this. Usually the rotation is starters play from beginning the mid late 1q. Bench plays from then until early/mid 2q where starters take over to end the half. Repeat for quarters 3 and 4. So yes it matters who finishes the game but it helpful to have your starters be the best group also.
Dude I don’t hate Joeger. I don’t like his handling of our young bigs (especially Giles). But I was coming around until this move.
And unlike you, I posted metrics like True Shooting Percentage, Rebound Percentage, Net Rating, 3 Point Percentage and Pie to show why this move makes no sense. What data do you have to show this move will be effective?
What is bothersome about the rainbows and sunshine crowd is their method of invalidating a point is generally not to show data why another view makes sense. Instead it’s to attack the messenger and state how somehow they don’t support the Kings.
And unlike you, I posted metrics like True Shooting Percentage, Rebound Percentage, Net Rating, 3 Point Percentage and Pie to show why this move makes no sense. What data do you have to show this move will be effective?
What is bothersome about the rainbows and sunshine crowd is their method of invalidating a point is generally not to show data why another view makes sense. Instead it’s to attack the messenger and state how somehow they don’t support the Kings.
There are some people that are quite stubborn and seem to believe players/coaches/front office/owners are above any criticism. Any flaw pointed out means you hate them or want them gone. Is joerger doing a good/great job over all? Yes. Does he make bone head moves or do stuff that can pee you off. Also a yes. Nobody is perfect and when he does something you think isn't right, it's fine to point out out.
I think Brewer will eventually fall out. Yes he is a defensive pest, but his over zealousness is part of the reason we were in the penalty early in the 4th vs Warriors. His career (and season) shooting percentages are not good at all and I think once he reverts to that he will not stay on the floor.
As far as Bjelica goes, I think he contributes more than his shooting percentage as he rebounds at a close rate to Bagley and offers good defense inside agains bigger guys. His weakness is faster PFs who can shoot the 3, especially with the rule changes, but there are plenty of matchups he can play. For example, I think he could have guarded Green by giving him space (although Green was shooting well in the last game).
As far as Bjelica goes, I think he contributes more than his shooting percentage as he rebounds at a close rate to Bagley and offers good defense inside agains bigger guys. His weakness is faster PFs who can shoot the 3, especially with the rule changes, but there are plenty of matchups he can play. For example, I think he could have guarded Green by giving him space (although Green was shooting well in the last game).
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