Bagley will start soon
- Thread starter sauce-26
- Start date
Oh, I can do that
There are 0 players averaging 38 minutes per game.
There is 1 player averaging 21 or more field goal attemps per game.
Bagley had a decent game much like he has shown all year. Without Belly he got to stay on the court longer, and without Fox, he had a few more chances to throw the ball at the basket.
There are 0 players averaging 38 minutes per game.
There is 1 player averaging 21 or more field goal attemps per game.
Bagley had a decent game much like he has shown all year. Without Belly he got to stay on the court longer, and without Fox, he had a few more chances to throw the ball at the basket.
Kings are still in the playoff mix now. But, Feb will be difficult 7 of 10 against playoff teams.
I don't see anything but a losing streak there.
2 of the 3 that are not playoff teams are no walk in the park either, Minny and Miami. Suns the other.
Bagley looked good, but you can't start him due to spacing. He has no outside game right now. He looks like an old school big. But, without much size. So that brings to light not one, but 2 problems.
Facing Embiid , KAT, Whiteside, Cousins, Jokic, Ayton and Adams in Feb alone.
With the exception of Adams and Whiteside, The rest are Unicorn players. He will have real problems defending.
I don't see anything but a losing streak there.
2 of the 3 that are not playoff teams are no walk in the park either, Minny and Miami. Suns the other.
Bagley looked good, but you can't start him due to spacing. He has no outside game right now. He looks like an old school big. But, without much size. So that brings to light not one, but 2 problems.
Facing Embiid , KAT, Whiteside, Cousins, Jokic, Ayton and Adams in Feb alone.
With the exception of Adams and Whiteside, The rest are Unicorn players. He will have real problems defending.
Well, this is a KINGS board, so excuse me if I tend to favor those who favor our players, even if they aren't the best in the league. The whole Dallas/Doncic fascination is an abomination to me as a Kings fan here on KINGSFANS. I don't ever recall seeing a phenomena like this, and in all honesty I hope I don't ever see it again. It's difficult for me as a fan to keep my feelings separate from those of VF21 moderator but I'm doing my best for the good of the board.
I think the majority of fans around here have been beyond tolerant/understanding about this whole deal, even when thread after thread is derailed because of the underlying agenda right beneath the surface in so many different comments. We've dealt with trolls from other teams before, coming here and touting the greatness of their teams/players, but having to deal with similar situations from those claiming to be Kings fans is hard to take.
You mentioned that if Dallas/Doncic was brought up, the thread would be closed. That's a straw man argument. Very few threads are closed but when one is, there's generally a very good reason. It's not about Doncic so much as it is about hijacking threads about various Kings players and having them be a repetition of the on-going never-ending conflict about Doncic in the NBA forum
Do Kings fans who post here have an agenda? Of course they do. They want to talk about the Kings, especially in the Kings Rap forum. It's kind of why this board has been around for so long.
In short (and to bring my rambling discourse to an end), not everything needs to be measured against the Doncic scale. There are a lot of fans who would absolutely LOVE to have discussions/debates/arguments about the Kings without ever mentioning Luka Doncic. I think they should be afforded that opportunity.
I think the majority of fans around here have been beyond tolerant/understanding about this whole deal, even when thread after thread is derailed because of the underlying agenda right beneath the surface in so many different comments. We've dealt with trolls from other teams before, coming here and touting the greatness of their teams/players, but having to deal with similar situations from those claiming to be Kings fans is hard to take.
You mentioned that if Dallas/Doncic was brought up, the thread would be closed. That's a straw man argument. Very few threads are closed but when one is, there's generally a very good reason. It's not about Doncic so much as it is about hijacking threads about various Kings players and having them be a repetition of the on-going never-ending conflict about Doncic in the NBA forum
Do Kings fans who post here have an agenda? Of course they do. They want to talk about the Kings, especially in the Kings Rap forum. It's kind of why this board has been around for so long.
In short (and to bring my rambling discourse to an end), not everything needs to be measured against the Doncic scale. There are a lot of fans who would absolutely LOVE to have discussions/debates/arguments about the Kings without ever mentioning Luka Doncic. I think they should be afforded that opportunity.
Did you check who started talking about Doncic on this thread?
I help you, post #31, the first on second page. Then #32.
So I tried to ask if it was the case to discuss about Doncic here as well.
#35 and #38 again.
All of them from one side.
True. I wasn't that impressed with Bagley performance and Doncic has nothing to do with it.
I am the one. Better ask users who wrote posts #31 #32 #35 #38.
I help you, post #31, the first on second page. Then #32.
So I tried to ask if it was the case to discuss about Doncic here as well.
#35 and #38 again.
All of them from one side.
True. I wasn't that impressed with Bagley performance and Doncic has nothing to do with it.
I am the one. Better ask users who wrote posts #31 #32 #35 #38.
That is a particularly facetious and convenient argument, even by your standards. FTR, I agree we're a slightly better team than Dallas right now, and better set up for the future. But ignoring actual records and going by position is hands-in-ears type stuff to make your argument sound more convincing than it is. We're marginally better than the Mavs right now, if at all. We've sucked plenty in many of our recent games.
My post is pretty clear, although I probably should have quoted more than just your comment. I read the whole thread (after having to separate out a different derailment) and responded by quoting the most recent post above me, which was yours. It's not just about this thread, which I think I made pretty clear. It's a plethora of threads.
You are so full of it. In every way possible to be full of it, you are!
Before you go pointing a finger at someone, why don't you go back re-read then fully comprehend what you read.
Truth is, you are so stuck on Luka Dončić and have such an agenda that you've gone blind over it. You're assuming only his name when it wasn't specifically mentioned. While I can see how you could interpret the way you did, you are completely wrong to say that I started talking about any player specifically.
My post was referring to all rookies not named Marvin Bagley III -- which is precisely why no specific name was given. It was even explicitly stated "It’s been going on all season with a couple different names". That means more than one player and not just the name that immediately stuck into your head.
Let me clue you in on something since you seem to gloss over most things not pertaining to the Dallas Mavericks rookie. There were a lot of fans on this forum hoping the KINGS would draft Jaren Jackson Jr. When JJJ played well against the KINGS earlier this season, we got the same buyers remorse shtick from that faction of fans. There are others that wanted Michael Porter Jr (yes, I'm aware he has not played yet). And others that wanted Trae Young. And even a few that were on the Mohamed Bamba, Kevin Knox and Wendall Carter Jr. bandwagons.
Point is, whenever any of these players perform quite well -- someone inevitably makes sure it's brought up on this site w/o further qualifying that it occurred against a 'bad team' or that it 'means nothing' because it came in garbage time or defeat. It's agenda driven and not unbiased.
I simply pointed this all out, admittedly, using a snarky tone. You then made it about one specific player and pointed a finger. And I'm calling shenanigans on that. I made a generic, non-specific statement that is applicable to several players in that draft. It's not my responsibility how you interpret things.
Listen, I get that you really like one player in particular. And I'm pretty sure you are also fully aware that I was on that same page up to and immediately after the draft. But I've moved on and accepted who is on the KINGS and who is not. I'm allowing the process to play out before boldly proclaiming who was right and who was wrong. And I will defend MB3 when I feel people aren't applying their own criteria uniformly to all 2018 draftees thus are being hypocritical.
Before you go pointing a finger at someone, why don't you go back re-read then fully comprehend what you read.
Truth is, you are so stuck on Luka Dončić and have such an agenda that you've gone blind over it. You're assuming only his name when it wasn't specifically mentioned. While I can see how you could interpret the way you did, you are completely wrong to say that I started talking about any player specifically.
My post was referring to all rookies not named Marvin Bagley III -- which is precisely why no specific name was given. It was even explicitly stated "It’s been going on all season with a couple different names". That means more than one player and not just the name that immediately stuck into your head.
Let me clue you in on something since you seem to gloss over most things not pertaining to the Dallas Mavericks rookie. There were a lot of fans on this forum hoping the KINGS would draft Jaren Jackson Jr. When JJJ played well against the KINGS earlier this season, we got the same buyers remorse shtick from that faction of fans. There are others that wanted Michael Porter Jr (yes, I'm aware he has not played yet). And others that wanted Trae Young. And even a few that were on the Mohamed Bamba, Kevin Knox and Wendall Carter Jr. bandwagons.
Point is, whenever any of these players perform quite well -- someone inevitably makes sure it's brought up on this site w/o further qualifying that it occurred against a 'bad team' or that it 'means nothing' because it came in garbage time or defeat. It's agenda driven and not unbiased.
I simply pointed this all out, admittedly, using a snarky tone. You then made it about one specific player and pointed a finger. And I'm calling shenanigans on that. I made a generic, non-specific statement that is applicable to several players in that draft. It's not my responsibility how you interpret things.
Listen, I get that you really like one player in particular. And I'm pretty sure you are also fully aware that I was on that same page up to and immediately after the draft. But I've moved on and accepted who is on the KINGS and who is not. I'm allowing the process to play out before boldly proclaiming who was right and who was wrong. And I will defend MB3 when I feel people aren't applying their own criteria uniformly to all 2018 draftees thus are being hypocritical.
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To be fair, you could have just said "JJ/Young/Doncic/Carter" instead of "a couple different names." Most people would interpret that to be a snarky referee to someone in particular.
By the same token, it seems that any post about Bagley that's not 100% fawning is interpreted by plenty here as people being hung up on the other guy. Not true. I'm a huge fan of Bagley but I like fair discussion. I'm not going to blindly say everything is rosy and perfect, because that defeats the point of discussion. I'd rather discuss reality.
I agree that the Doncic talk should not be leaking into the King's rap forum. But the hypocrisy is overwhelming here sometimes. You're allowed to make references to he who shall not be named as long as it's in the direction that certain mods agree with.
By the same token, it seems that any post about Bagley that's not 100% fawning is interpreted by plenty here as people being hung up on the other guy. Not true. I'm a huge fan of Bagley but I like fair discussion. I'm not going to blindly say everything is rosy and perfect, because that defeats the point of discussion. I'd rather discuss reality.
I agree that the Doncic talk should not be leaking into the King's rap forum. But the hypocrisy is overwhelming here sometimes. You're allowed to make references to he who shall not be named as long as it's in the direction that certain mods agree with.
Could have. But not a responsibility. IMO it’s more incumbent upon the individual not to put words in someone else’s mouth or point fingers when the issue really was their own interpretation. If they’re confused, they can ask for clarity. Pretty simple, really.
Regarding not fawning over Bagley, I have no issue with that. But if someone is going to point out that the success came against a subpar opponent or while still part of a losing team, then the same should be pointed out equally regarding all other rookies it applies to.
Last I checked, all of the top rookies are on losing teams sans Bagley whose team currently sits at .500.
Regarding not fawning over Bagley, I have no issue with that. But if someone is going to point out that the success came against a subpar opponent or while still part of a losing team, then the same should be pointed out equally regarding all other rookies it applies to.
Last I checked, all of the top rookies are on losing teams sans Bagley whose team currently sits at .500.
This has gone on long enough if you ask me. And if you really want to know why, I think all of the moderators need to take a look in the mirror. Are you here to control the narrative or are you here to keep the peace? The last time I tried to make this point my comments were deleted and nothing changed so I don't have much faith that a second attempt will be any different but I've been a member here for long enough that I feel at least one more attempt is warranted before I give up entirely. I think you're missing something in all of this which is that you can't decide a conversation is not going to take place without arbitrarily skewing every other conversation in one direction or the other. The sniping is hardly one-sided and if you really want it to stop (and I hope that we all do) you're going to have to do a lot better than quarantining comments into separate categories and issuing warnings to people who creep into the neutral zone. That's not a free exchange of ideas any more it's something equivalent to a war state.
As a lifelong Kings fan who's only ever rooted for one NBA team, the idea that you or Vlade Divac or Grant Napear or anyone else is going to take a stand and tell me I need to go root for a different team is beyond insulting. Can you imagine the GM of the Trailblazers telling Portland fans they should go root for OKC if they really wish he'd drafted Kevin Durant instead? For as much as Vlade's ability to unite people is given lip-service, he's done very much the opposite in his tenure in the Sacramento front office. He failed to find common ground between George Karl and the entire team and the result was the players blatantly quitting on the coach to an extent that I've never seen before and really the beginning of the end for DeMarcus as a part of this team. He's failed to find common ground between Brandon Williams and Dave Joerger and we still haven't seen how far down the rabbit hole that schism is going to go. And then he's got the nerve to call out the fans in an interview as if any of this is our fault.
You mentioned that the Dallas/Doncic fascination is unfathomable to you. We've got a 19 year old kid having maybe the best rookie season of the last 30 years and you're surprised that people on a basketball fan forum might want to talk about that? Why do you assume this is all about resentment over the draft? I've been disappointed with 90% of the Kings drafts I've personally witnessed. That disappointment eventually fades in time but it's barely been 6 months. I bet if Cleveland had passed on Lebron James in the 2003 draft there probably would have been a lot of Cavs fans wanting to talk about that throughout the following season. Are we not allowed to lament a draft pick while still rooting for the team as presently constituted? I thought that's what we've been doing here for years already. And considering how much NBA fans and analysts have loved to talk about Kobe and Shaq and Lebron throughout their careers, you better prepare yourself now because you're probably going to be hearing the name Luka Doncic an awful lot for the next 10-20 years. Have you considered the possibility that it might be better for the fans to get this all out now rather than sweeping it under the rug and reacting to the name with a Pavlovian shiver every time someone brings it up?
At no point in the last 15 years have I felt like I was not allowed to state my opinion here which is why I've stuck around for so long, through what must be some of the worst managerial incompetence any fan-base has been forced to endure. It was not fun being a Kings fan for most of the last decade but it was interesting at least. And in any case we had each other to commiserate with. And I do consider you and so many others here to be my friends so I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings or stir up something just for the heck of it. With that in mind. I'm going to state this as delicately as I can: if this is the new direction of this message board -- if any attempt to counter vitriol with measured analysis is going to be branded as seditious and unwelcome then there's really nothing else to be said. This forum will have out-lived it's usefulness as a venue for rational discussion. Yeah I'm mad about the draft. But I'm twice as mad at anyone telling me I'm not allowed to be mad about it or rather that I should take those feelings elsewhere because this is a place only for like-minded Kings fans who fully embrace the Bagley Future we're all lucky to be a part of. It all feels weirdly jingoistic not just in the way the symbolism of the NAME ON THE FRONT OF THE JERSEY is invoked as this bastion of unimpeachable decency but also in the way that attempts to express a contrary opinion are clearly held to a different standard.
Maybe you're right and the vast majority of the fanbase is crying out for a place where they can discuss ALMOST all things Kings without the threat of comments which might upset the status quo. I agree that forcing every discussion in one particular direction is blatant trolling and who has the time or the patience to deal with that? Those posters should be warned. Maybe they already have been. I don't agree though that the mission of this particular board has been to protect people from discussing potentially inflammatory topics. We've disagreed on an awful lot over the years and we're never going to agree on everything. The only thing different about this situation is that the standard of discourse seems to have settled into a place of thinly-veiled sniping and stayed there. And apparently that extends now to the coaches, some of the players, relatives of said players, and the General Manager. Yikes! I think everyone involved should probably take a moment to reflect on who they want to be and see if maybe they're being a tad close-minded about things? This whole community things functions a lot better when we're actually listening to each other rather than looking for a better comeback.
As a lifelong Kings fan who's only ever rooted for one NBA team, the idea that you or Vlade Divac or Grant Napear or anyone else is going to take a stand and tell me I need to go root for a different team is beyond insulting. Can you imagine the GM of the Trailblazers telling Portland fans they should go root for OKC if they really wish he'd drafted Kevin Durant instead? For as much as Vlade's ability to unite people is given lip-service, he's done very much the opposite in his tenure in the Sacramento front office. He failed to find common ground between George Karl and the entire team and the result was the players blatantly quitting on the coach to an extent that I've never seen before and really the beginning of the end for DeMarcus as a part of this team. He's failed to find common ground between Brandon Williams and Dave Joerger and we still haven't seen how far down the rabbit hole that schism is going to go. And then he's got the nerve to call out the fans in an interview as if any of this is our fault.
You mentioned that the Dallas/Doncic fascination is unfathomable to you. We've got a 19 year old kid having maybe the best rookie season of the last 30 years and you're surprised that people on a basketball fan forum might want to talk about that? Why do you assume this is all about resentment over the draft? I've been disappointed with 90% of the Kings drafts I've personally witnessed. That disappointment eventually fades in time but it's barely been 6 months. I bet if Cleveland had passed on Lebron James in the 2003 draft there probably would have been a lot of Cavs fans wanting to talk about that throughout the following season. Are we not allowed to lament a draft pick while still rooting for the team as presently constituted? I thought that's what we've been doing here for years already. And considering how much NBA fans and analysts have loved to talk about Kobe and Shaq and Lebron throughout their careers, you better prepare yourself now because you're probably going to be hearing the name Luka Doncic an awful lot for the next 10-20 years. Have you considered the possibility that it might be better for the fans to get this all out now rather than sweeping it under the rug and reacting to the name with a Pavlovian shiver every time someone brings it up?
At no point in the last 15 years have I felt like I was not allowed to state my opinion here which is why I've stuck around for so long, through what must be some of the worst managerial incompetence any fan-base has been forced to endure. It was not fun being a Kings fan for most of the last decade but it was interesting at least. And in any case we had each other to commiserate with. And I do consider you and so many others here to be my friends so I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings or stir up something just for the heck of it. With that in mind. I'm going to state this as delicately as I can: if this is the new direction of this message board -- if any attempt to counter vitriol with measured analysis is going to be branded as seditious and unwelcome then there's really nothing else to be said. This forum will have out-lived it's usefulness as a venue for rational discussion. Yeah I'm mad about the draft. But I'm twice as mad at anyone telling me I'm not allowed to be mad about it or rather that I should take those feelings elsewhere because this is a place only for like-minded Kings fans who fully embrace the Bagley Future we're all lucky to be a part of. It all feels weirdly jingoistic not just in the way the symbolism of the NAME ON THE FRONT OF THE JERSEY is invoked as this bastion of unimpeachable decency but also in the way that attempts to express a contrary opinion are clearly held to a different standard.
Maybe you're right and the vast majority of the fanbase is crying out for a place where they can discuss ALMOST all things Kings without the threat of comments which might upset the status quo. I agree that forcing every discussion in one particular direction is blatant trolling and who has the time or the patience to deal with that? Those posters should be warned. Maybe they already have been. I don't agree though that the mission of this particular board has been to protect people from discussing potentially inflammatory topics. We've disagreed on an awful lot over the years and we're never going to agree on everything. The only thing different about this situation is that the standard of discourse seems to have settled into a place of thinly-veiled sniping and stayed there. And apparently that extends now to the coaches, some of the players, relatives of said players, and the General Manager. Yikes! I think everyone involved should probably take a moment to reflect on who they want to be and see if maybe they're being a tad close-minded about things? This whole community things functions a lot better when we're actually listening to each other rather than looking for a better comeback.
The tenor of the board has changed dramatically this season. Could be any number of factors. It's not a bad thing for moderators to try to keep conversations on track and provide some spaces to talk about specific Kings issues without it unraveling into something unrelated. The unrelated topics are given their own thread. Seems pretty legit.
With all due respect, you would feel that way because you agree with the opinions those particular mods have. So the discussion being nudged in a certain direction, whether justly or not, is absolutely fine with you because it lines up with your beliefs.
When you have mods essentially suggestion good posters are trolls because they're pissed off that they have a different opinion, that is neither objective nor fair. Nor does it contribute to good discussion. Everyone can discuss things respectably without resorting to throwing their weight around. As long as opinions are backed up with reasoning and logic, people will just have to get over it. Or defeat that viewpoint with their own analysis.
Edit: I'm not saying that the mods have banned or warned anyone unjustly, and I do agree with keeping the Doncic/Bagley discussion in the NBA forum. I have no desire to talk about Doncic in game threads when discussing the performance of Bagley in Kings rap. But letting one side take jabs at the other without comment, but then essentially throwing a hissy fit if anyone dares make a comment in the other direction, is the height of hypocrisy.
When you have mods essentially suggestion good posters are trolls because they're pissed off that they have a different opinion, that is neither objective nor fair. Nor does it contribute to good discussion. Everyone can discuss things respectably without resorting to throwing their weight around. As long as opinions are backed up with reasoning and logic, people will just have to get over it. Or defeat that viewpoint with their own analysis.
Edit: I'm not saying that the mods have banned or warned anyone unjustly, and I do agree with keeping the Doncic/Bagley discussion in the NBA forum. I have no desire to talk about Doncic in game threads when discussing the performance of Bagley in Kings rap. But letting one side take jabs at the other without comment, but then essentially throwing a hissy fit if anyone dares make a comment in the other direction, is the height of hypocrisy.
Completely disagree with your assessment of the mods. Completely. Some unreasonable conversation on both sides. I see people attaching blanket statements to each crowd blending some personal views on Doncic or Bagley and assigning them to the entire side of the topic.
You can’t tell me there isn’t troll like behavior by some individuals. You can say it, but I’ll disagree with it. Difference in being called a troll and troll like behavior. And I’m not choosing sides.
And I believe you are very, very wrong on the moderators.
You can’t tell me there isn’t troll like behavior by some individuals. You can say it, but I’ll disagree with it. Difference in being called a troll and troll like behavior. And I’m not choosing sides.
And I believe you are very, very wrong on the moderators.
Hope I'm not considered a troll or the user who trolls.
Especially because I'm saying the same things about a certain player since more than one year. Go to check who open the original thread about that player.
The difference is my considerations looked OK when that player was a potential Kings pick, since the last June they're not welcome anymore.
Especially because I'm saying the same things about a certain player since more than one year. Go to check who open the original thread about that player.
The difference is my considerations looked OK when that player was a potential Kings pick, since the last June they're not welcome anymore.
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Our recent games? Now this is fatuous stuff - selecting our recent (loss) games instead of the breadth of the season up to this point. The Kings have hovered around .500 for the season up to this point. Is .500 bad? No, it isn't. It is by definition neither good nor bad - it's right down the middle. Apparently, some want to use the "bad" .500 record to dismiss Bagley's and Giles' performance, saying their statistics reflect "empty" stats of a losing team. It's a fool's errand.
Not only getting 22 and 11 on 50% shooting with a lot of mistakes.
But also against one of the Top 5 teams in the world. Oh and a 19 year old in his first start.
This kid will sleep walk to a 20 and 10 every night and it appears this fact is almost invisible to so many people and maybe even his coach.
Doncic is a disease. And he’s distorting people’s perspective on this great young kid that is ours.
And it’s getting worse. It’s honestly pretty funny to watch real time since I don’t have any real stake in the game. Human psychology is fascinating
But also against one of the Top 5 teams in the world. Oh and a 19 year old in his first start.
This kid will sleep walk to a 20 and 10 every night and it appears this fact is almost invisible to so many people and maybe even his coach.
Doncic is a disease. And he’s distorting people’s perspective on this great young kid that is ours.
And it’s getting worse. It’s honestly pretty funny to watch real time since I don’t have any real stake in the game. Human psychology is fascinating