Joerger

[Kingster]

"Physically, we’re at a deficit. We’re smaller, shorter and not as strong.” - D. Joerger

https://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/article219907650.html#storylink=cpy

I think I've heard enough of that excuse. If being bigger was the answer, then where is Papa when you need him? This team is an athletic, quick, and fast team. Instead of focusing on what you don't have - a Gobert or a Steven Adams - focus on what you do have and utilize it properly.

 

[Sam0ah]

"Physically, we’re at a deficit. We’re smaller, shorter and not as strong.” - D. Joerger

https://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/article219907650.html#storylink=cpy

I think I've heard enough of that excuse. If being bigger was the answer, then where is Papa when you need him? This team is an athletic, quick, and fast team. Instead of focusing on what you don't have - a Gobert or a Steven Adams - focus on what you do have and utilize it properly.

Why not play Kosta then? Is he so much not part of the future that we won't even play him on a year that doesn't have a draft pick.

 

[Joshoua]

Haha get this clown out of here we have like 8 PF/C and he’s still running dinosaurs offenses

 

[dude12]

I’m going to chime in here. Guys wanted the vets out of the lineup, like Zbo, and now that they are playing the young guys this is what we are going to get against vet teams who are already dialed in on their offense. We have just a small part of our offense in. We are playing an excessively young squad. Joerger wins. There is no denying this. He’s proven. To argue otherwise is just dumb given how young this squad is.

 

[ockingsfan]

"Physically, we’re at a deficit. We’re smaller, shorter and not as strong.” - D. Joerger

https://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/article219907650.html#storylink=cpy

I think I've heard enough of that excuse. If being bigger was the answer, then where is Papa when you need him? This team is an athletic, quick, and fast team. Instead of focusing on what you don't have - a Gobert or a Steven Adams - focus on what you do have and utilize it properly.

Translation: We need ZBo and KK to play some minutes.... Otherwise, we are going to get run off the court most every night.

At this point, the kids may not be ready for heavy minutes. If we can stay in the games early with the Vets or have the Vets come in and stop the other teams run and then insert the kids when the game is still competitive, that may be more beneficial than losing by 30 points every night.

I'm not advocating 30 minutes a night of ZBo, KK, and Shump, but if they can come in and help stop the carnage and give the Kings a fighting chance, especially early in the season, the Kings may need to give the vets some minutes early.

Losing by 30 points every night will not do the young kids any good, but it could destroy their confidence.

 

[The Effort Police]

Translation: We need ZBo and KK to play some minutes.... Otherwise, we are going to get run off the court most every night.

At this point, the kids may not ready for heavy minutes. If we can stay in the games early with the vets and then insert the kids when the game is still competitive, that may be more beneficial than losing by 30 every night.

I'm not advocating 30 minutes a night of ZBo, KK, and Shump, but if they can come in help stop the carnage and give the Kings a fighting chance, especially early in the season, the Kings may need to give the vets some minutes early.

Losing by 30 every night will not do the young kids any good, but it could destroy their confidence.

Who are Zbo and KK going to take minutes from?

I would argue that those guys don't move the needle regardless and Zbo and Shump in particular make us worse actually, but that's neither here nor there.

Out of last night's crap, Bagley and Giles were our best performances if you wanna use the term "best". Giles in particular has been our best performer this preseason.

 

[Kingster]

Translation: We need ZBo and KK to play some minutes.... Otherwise, we are going to get run off the court most every night.

At this point, the kids may not ready for heavy minutes. If we can stay in the games early with the vets and then insert the kids when the game is still competitive, that may be more beneficial than losing by 30 every night.

I'm not advocating 30 minutes a night of ZBo, KK, and Shump, but if they can come in help stop the carnage and give the Kings a fighting chance, especially early in the season, the Kings may need to give the vets some minutes early.

Losing by 30 every night will not do the young kids any good, but it could destroy their confidence.

If he wants to bench Stein and play KK instead, fine with me. It's so frustrating to watch him shrivel when he plays good centers. Shump is athletic and a good defender and should be played and really has nothing to do with smaller, shorter, weaker. ZBo needs to rest his old bones for the remainder of the season.

 

[Kingster]

Why not play Kosta then? Is he so much not part of the future that we won't even play him on a year that doesn't have a draft pick.

Fine with me. WCS to the bench. Kosta as the starter. Enough with Stein experiment.

 

[CelticsFan]

I’m going to chime in here. Guys wanted the vets out of the lineup, like Zbo, and now that they are playing the young guys this is what we are going to get against vet teams who are already dialed in on their offense. We have just a small part of our offense in. We are playing an excessively young squad. Joerger wins. There is no denying this. He’s proven. To argue otherwise is just dumb given how young this squad is.

Joerger has a record of 206 wins and 204 losses, I don't know if you can really say Joerger wins. You could say he coached the Grizzlies when they had a winning roster and he has coached Sac during a rebuild. Does his track record really make him a winner? If Joerger isn't the problem than what is? Is it Vlade? Is it the players? I personally don't see Joerger lasting the season. If the Kings give away a top 3 pick this season I believe both Joerger and Vlade will be gone

"Physically, we’re at a deficit. We’re smaller, shorter and not as strong.” - D. Joerger

That quote to me seems like an excuse or a shot at Vlade take your pick.

 

[ockingsfan]

Who are Zbo and KK going to take minutes from?

I would argue that those guys don't move the needle regardless and Zbo and Shump in particular make us worse actually, but that's neither here nor there.

Out of last night's crap, Bagley and Giles were our best performances if you wanna use the term "best". Giles in particular has been our best performer this preseason.

There is one thing that ZBo can still do and that is get you a bucket.

Like yesterday when we scored like 2 points 8 minutes into the 1st quarter. We were still down a manageable score, something like 2 to 16, but we couldn't buy a bucket.

If you insert Zbo at that point and he can get you a couple of buckets to stop their momentum, suddenly, we are down only 8 to 20, instead of going down 4 to 28.

Having a vet that can score when you need it would help keep us in the game. If ZBo can still do anything, it is he can still get you a bucket to help stymie another teams momentum.

 

[Joshoua]

I’m going to chime in here. Guys wanted the vets out of the lineup, like Zbo, and now that they are playing the young guys this is what we are going to get against vet teams who are already dialed in on their offense. We have just a small part of our offense in. We are playing an excessively young squad. Joerger wins. There is no denying this. He’s proven. To argue otherwise is just dumb given how young this squad is.

That Memphis team he coached was a seasoned lead veteran team who was already winning

 

[chief bromden]

Bogdan going down has hurt this team more than I thought. It’s pretty apparent now that he is the number one playmaking guard on this team. Maybe Frank can show some improvement in that area during the first part of the season, otherwise it’s going to be a long three weeks for the offense until Bogdan returns. How that interacts with Joerger is that it seems like he has some basic sets the team rolls out, and expects the players to make plays, rather than tailoring a system to the players.

Joerger is not very entrepreneurial on the offensive end, and he definitely isn’t creative. I remember from his time in Memphis that each preseason there was hype about them going up tempo, and the season would start and it’d be the same ole thing. The rhetoric back then was the roster construction prevented his desire for uptempo... seems like some things haven’t changed.

Related to that is another pattern: I’ve never heard/read Joerger point the finger at himself for anything. He tends to place fault on the players, and often for things out of their control (age, experience, athleticism, etc) Most of those things can’t be coached and/or don’t transform quickly. Basically, he builds the narrative for “well, what can ya do?” I don’t have much confidence that things will turn around at this point, but I’m very open to it happening.

 

[kingsboi]

this is what you get when the majority of your roster is so young and undeveloped. Of course they won't have the strength, they still have teenage bodies and need to go through the rigors of a full NBA season for a number of years to grow as pros and that's not adding to the fact that every season they should add something else to their game or simply perfect their craft and use that skill to help the team excel. I can't be mad at Joerger here, whatever he does he will catch flack for and that's to be expected because there will be a lot of nights like last night where the game is over in the first quarter and the team is spent exerting all the energy to try to catch up in the game but it's too late.

 

[ESP47]

No one is going to address the obvious elephant in the room? You know the part where Joerger has almost none of our players playing to their strengths? With many of them playing specifically toward their weaknesses?

 

[Sac.1989]

Great coach for a vet team in win now mode.

Quotes do nothing for me. Needs to accept that he is at a rebuilding team where youth development is primary. Has a minimal track record of player development however that is his role and he needs to embrace it.

I have no doubt that Joerger would love to trade some of these youngsters and have a vet team competing for the low rungs of playoff seeding.

 

[beb0p]

"Physically, we’re at a deficit. We’re smaller, shorter and not as strong.” - D. Joerger

https://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/article219907650.html#storylink=cpy

I think I've heard enough of that excuse. If being bigger was the answer, then where is Papa when you need him? This team is an athletic, quick, and fast team. Instead of focusing on what you don't have - a Gobert or a Steven Adams - focus on what you do have and utilize it properly.

I think we need to be fair. What Joerger was alluding to is that the Kings came out lazy and lackadaisical against a very good team when they had talked in the locker room that they needed to come out ready and firing to have any chance against them. He was saying the Kings already has a size disadvantage against this big team and on top of that, they came out and played like they just did an overtime shift at the lumber yard.

I don't really care for Joerger but I agree with him 100% on last night's effort. It was simply non-existent. The Jazz outrebounded the Kings 51 to 34. That's just a lack of effort. Period. WCS grabbed 3 rebounds. Skal grabbed 2 rebounds. Each had around 20 mins of play. Hield can't seem to fight through screens anymore and I don't know what Yogi Ferrell was doing.

One play in particular really irked me. A Kings guard lost the ball at the top of key in the Jazz's half and raced back trying to defend the Jazz player in a breakaway. When the ball was lost, all the Kings players just stopped, including WCS, who was at the top of the key and could have made a play if he just ran back to the Kings' basket. But Gobert (WCS's defender) about five feet further away from the Kings' basket than WCS, raced toward the Kings' basket and received a nice pass and an easy dunk, while WCS just stood and watched. If anyone deserved to take a play off at that moment, it'd be Gobert - the player with nothing to prove and his team up by 50, but it was he who hustled and the young King looking for a big payday who was slacking off.

I know this team is raw, young, and learning; but at least show us some effort, will y'all? It looks to me Bagley and fringe guys like Weyen were the only ones ready to play and I think it shows when you look at the boxscore. I think it's time we hold players accountable too. I can accept a losing team that hustles. But if this kind of effort is the norm, then forgetaboutit. I got better things to waste my time on.
.

 

[ockingsfan]

No one is going to address the obvious elephant in the room? You know the part where Joerger has almost none of our players playing to their strengths? With many of them playing specifically toward their weaknesses?

Definitely an issue with Joeger. His explanation is that he wants them to become a more well rounded player, so he wants them to work on their deficiencies. Does he keep having them work on their deficiencies or do they play to their strengths?

Looking at the success of teams like the L.A. Rams and how their young head coach basically transformed a terrible team into Super Bowl contenders in one year, by concentrating on what his players can do well, one may conclude that it is better to put the players in a position to succeed with what they can do well.

I want to see Joeger draw up plays and defensive schemes that highlights what the players can do and minimize what they can't do on the floor.

One thing that they need to figure out ASAP is how to fight through screens and defend the 3 point line.

 

[dude12]

Joerger has a record of 206 wins and 204 losses, I don't know if you can really say Joerger wins. You could say he coached the Grizzlies when they had a winning roster and he has coached Sac during a rebuild. Does his track record really make him a winner? If Joerger isn't the problem than what is? Is it Vlade? Is it the players? I personally don't see Joerger lasting the season. If the Kings give away a top 3 pick this season I believe both Joerger and Vlade will be gone

"Physically, we’re at a deficit. We’re smaller, shorter and not as strong.” - D. Joerger

That quote to me seems like an excuse or a shot at Vlade take your pick.

Joerger won several G League championships
Joerger took a Memphis team in his 3rd year that I think set a record for the amount of games lost due to injury and they went 42-40 and made the playoffs. That right there should be a huge clue on whether he’s a good coach or not if you want to look past the first 2 Memphis years where his teams were extremely good.

Our roster is mostly in diapers. We need time and experience.

 

[sactowndog]

I think we need to be fair. What Joerger was alluding to is that the Kings came out lazy and lackadaisical against a very good team when they had talked in the locker room that they needed to come out ready and firing to have any chance against them. He was saying the Kings already has a size disadvantage against this big team and on top of that, they came out and played like they just did an overtime shift at the lumber yard.

I don't really care for Joerger but I agree with him 100% on last night's effort. It was simply non-existent. The Jazz outrebounded the Kings 51 to 34. That's just a lack of effort. Period. WCS grabbed 3 rebounds. Skal grabbed 2 rebounds. Each had around 20 mins of play. Hield can't seem to fight through screens anymore and I don't know what Yogi Ferrell was doing.

One play in particular really irked me. A Kings guard lost the ball at the top of key in the Jazz's half and raced back trying to defend the Jazz player in a breakaway. When the ball was lost, all the Kings players just stopped, including WCS, who was at the top of the key and could have made a play if he just ran back to the Kings' basket. But Gobert (WCS's defender) about five feet further away from the Kings' basket than WCS, raced toward the Kings' basket and received a nice pass and an easy dunk, while WCS just stood and watched. If anyone deserved to take a play off at that moment, it'd be Gobert - the player with nothing to prove and his team up by 50, but it was he who hustled and the young King looking for a big payday who was slacking off.

I know this team is raw, young, and learning; but at least show us some effort, will y'all? It looks to me Bagley and fringe guys like Weyen were the only ones ready to play and I think it shows when you look at the boxscore. I think it's time we hold players accountable too. I can accept a losing team that hustles. But if this kind of effort is the norm, then forgetaboutit. I got better things to waste my time on.
.

I think that was Shumpert’s point.

 

[Kingsfan2002]

Joerger won several G League championships
Joerger took a Memphis team in his 3rd year that I think set a record for the amount of games lost due to injury and they went 42-40 and made the playoffs. That right there should be a huge clue on whether he’s a good coach or not if you want to look past the first 2 Memphis years where his teams were extremely good.

Our roster is mostly in diapers. We need time and experience.

Yes this team is young. BUT last night Joerger said the team only has 18% of the offense installed? WTF? These guys aren't rookies!

What kinda offense are you running that the team you've had for going on 2 years doesn't know more than 18% of the offense? Joerger needs to just simplify this system. He's all about these overly scripted sets. Running the offense thru the bigs in the high post with Fox as your PG is so stupid.

 

[Sac.1989]

Looking at the success of teams like the L.A. Rams and how their young head coach basically transformed a terrible team into Super Bowl contenders in one year, by concentrating on what his players can do well, one may conclude that it is better to put the players in a position to succeed with what they can do well.
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Most corporate organizations function like this. Talented human capital focuses on its strengths and these are leveraged throughout the organization within its makeup.

Addressing weaknesses is emphasized only to the extent where they do not hold anyone back, but the core focus is to continually renew and further the strengths that each individual possesses.

Joerger has to figure it out.

 

[Joshoua]

Yes this team is young. BUT last night Joerger said the team only has 18% of the offense installed? WTF? These guys aren't rookies!

What kinda offense are you running that the team you've had for going on 2 years doesn't know more than 18% of the offense? Joerger needs to just simplify this system. He's all about these overly scripted sets. Running the offense thru the bigs in the high post with Fox as your PG is so stupid.

Same crap he said last year some people on here eat up anything they say. For example actually giving that big lineup s chance and people in here for for that crap

 

[SacTownKid]

That Memphis team he coached was a seasoned lead veteran team who was already winning

Much like Paul Westphal in Phoenix where the team was built from top to bottom prior to him getting there. THIS is his first real shot at the big chair on his own terms, no question.

 

[Hoovtrain]

I was pumped when they hired him, but For a guy that supposedly preaches defense, this teams level of effort and defensive competency absolutely sucks. Coupled with his garbage offense that is not conducive to this team or Fox, what’s the point of keeping him around. This isn’t all on him, the players and GM also play a role, but he’s the HC and there is no excusing the lack of effort and crappy BBIQ.

 

[upinsmoke]

Much like Paul Westphal in Phoenix where the team was built from top to bottom prior to him getting there. THIS is his first real shot at the big chair on his own terms, no question.

I agree and feel he deserves a fair shot at it. This is a make or break season for both Vlade and Joerger if it's a disaster then they should both be let go. However if it's a season where we feel good about ourselves and our future then press on.

 

[SacTownKid]

Translation: We need ZBo and KK to play some minutes.... Otherwise, we are going to get run off the court most every night.

At this point, the kids may not be ready for heavy minutes. If we can stay in the games early with the Vets or have the Vets come in and stop the other teams run and then insert the kids when the game is still competitive, that may be more beneficial than losing by 30 points every night.

I'm not advocating 30 minutes a night of ZBo, KK, and Shump, but if they can come in and help stop the carnage and give the Kings a fighting chance, especially early in the season, the Kings may need to give the vets some minutes early.

Losing by 30 points every night will not do the young kids any good, but it could destroy their confidence.

Can you see the seeds being planted already here? From my experience listening to Joerger there's always some angling going on somewhere. Running out the vets that fit a system that doesn't remotely fit the future talent of this team will literally destroy their rebuild on day 1. The Kings had a more ready unit last year and still landed well below mediocre. They had their chance, time to find the right game plan. Young players take their lumps but setting a up individuals to fail through style of play is true destruction. Even short term winning in a game plan that won't ever bring them up to a level of real high and sustained competitiveness does nothing in the end.

I saw an interview with Vlade on the CSN season preview and it left me a bit concerned that he may be a part of the problem. He said last year was about learning and this year is about competing. Uh, Vlade, don't try and skip some of those steps in rebuilding considering you just went more all in than last year. Skipping steps hurts you more than helps you in the end unless you can package pieces together for stars. And newsflash, in order to do that you have to stop allowing your coach to use those pieces completely backwards even if it helps them be more well rounded in the long run.

 

[The_Jamal]

Definitely an issue with Joeger. His explanation is that he wants them to become a more well rounded player, so he wants them to work on their deficiencies. Does he keep having them work on their deficiencies or do they play to their strengths?

Looking at the success of teams like the L.A. Rams and how their young head coach basically transformed a terrible team into Super Bowl contenders in one year, by concentrating on what his players can do well, one may conclude that it is better to put the players in a position to succeed with what they can do well.

I want to see Joeger draw up plays and defensive schemes that highlights what the players can do and minimize what they can't do on the floor.

One thing that they need to figure out ASAP is how to fight through screens and defend the 3 point line.

Not nearly the same thing. Not a perfect example, but I'd liken them closer to the Mark Jackson Warriors to the Steve Kerr Warriors. Jeff Fischer was grossly misusing a pretty talented roster while McCvay has maximized the talents of a very talented roster.

Evaluating Joerger is a bit tough, because I think he's pretty clearly not using our talent correctly and trying to jam a round peg into a square hole (his offense). On the flip side though, we're an insanely young team with very little experience together where WCS is the only guy Joerger has had his entire tenure with the Kings. So I think it's fair to say he's not putting our young guys in a good position to develop, but also fair to say that we aren't some 50 win team waiting to happen if we had the right coach.

 

[SacTownKid]

I agree and feel he deserves a fair shot at it. This is a make or break season for both Vlade and Joerger if it's a disaster then they should both be let go. However if it's a season where we feel good about ourselves and our future then press on.

I think the individual numbers will dictate that. Again, the Kings had no player in the top 100!!! That's alarming when you have as many recent top 10 picks as the Kings do. They need to start building the young players up either for themselves or for someone else via trade. Going all in on development only works if you have established pieces to build around and your team makes sense on all fronts. This is the point where they have to establish those pieces and they aren't. Indeed this is an apparent attempt to stick a square peg in a round hole and as a result they are doing the opposite. If the Kings had mostly 19 year olds then I think the window is wider but it's not. They have no pick next year, they have no draw in free agency, and if they also have no trade assets to go along with it they've just stalemated themselves. Instead of 2002 Kings, he's about to get 1980's Kings.

 

[The_Jamal]

I think I'd be ok giving Joerger the year then expecting a big leap next season. That'd be 2 years in his system with most of the core, a lot of the young guys will have great NBA experience by then. If we aren't seeing the results by game 35 next season, then you pull the plug.

 

[Ozymandias]

That quote from Joerger is not only true, but it's glaringly obvious, and it has reared its ugly head all preseason. Watching teams backups bully our bigs around the basket, players like Richaun Holmes and Damian Jones is all ya need to see, the Kings have a severe strength disadvantage in the frontcourt.

Players like Gobert werent made in a year, it took a few.


Our bigs are gonna get thrown to the wolves this year, it's gonna toughen em up for sure.