UPDATE: Bulls match offer sheet for Zach LaVine (NEW Poll)
- Thread starter lwc
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It's quite simple really... Shump and Temple expiring. Bogdan and Buddy are cheap for 2 more seasons.. He's 23 and got very nice ability and potential.. Plus the Kings want to run, high octane, and LaVine is far more dynamic in transition than these players.
As an added bonus we get to have him reclaim his Dunk contest title with a Kings jersey on too.
LaVine has some flair for the dramatic too. It makes sense tho because with the cap next summer they go after a SF who can play smallball PF type and they have the full SF flexibility.
As an added bonus we get to have him reclaim his Dunk contest title with a Kings jersey on too.
LaVine has some flair for the dramatic too. It makes sense tho because with the cap next summer they go after a SF who can play smallball PF type and they have the full SF flexibility.
I love it. Go from slow ass ZBo, Vince, hill, koufos to flying up and down the court next year. Should be an exciting brand of basketball and lavine legitimately has the upside to be a star offensively.
I have 0 qualms about lavine or bogdan at SF. I think the quickness advantage lavine has would be awesome on offense. Defensively, SF is pretty desolate in terms of offensive talent. George, bron, Kd, Kawhi. And those dudes take it to everyone, no matter if we have a 6'9 SF or not
I have 0 qualms about lavine or bogdan at SF. I think the quickness advantage lavine has would be awesome on offense. Defensively, SF is pretty desolate in terms of offensive talent. George, bron, Kd, Kawhi. And those dudes take it to everyone, no matter if we have a 6'9 SF or not
I posted another video in this thread that shows LaVine matching up size-wise well with Butler and Wiggins, two SFs. In this video, you can see he is clearly bigger than Josh Richardson and Tyler Johnson, two SGs. I don't think he will have problem playing SF. And it may even help him defend with his ACL and force him to become more discerning with his shot selection.
IMHO the answer in part is because every year that goes by some Kings fans fixate on a free agent the Kings just MUST get. The cream of the crop is already gone and remaining options are few, so this time it's gonna be Zach LaVine. It doesn't matter that he really doesn't fill a need. It's the shiny object/squirrel syndrome. 
Got some spare time? Read what Bulls fans have to say about LaVine:
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1718011&start=1600
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1718011&start=1600
I disagree completely. If you forget salary or injury for a minute and look at the players straight up LaVine is better hands down. He can do things with his athleticism and speed that neither Buddy/Bogdan will ever be able to do. He Iso's better than then both, draws a second defender constantly and could guard both of them well when neither could guard him.
They might all be SGs but LaVine is a completely different player from Buddy/Bogdan when they are quite similar. When you add in his cost and injury history I wouldn't take him instead of Buddy/Bogdan but being such a different player from those two I still think he'd be a great asset to have alongside them.
They might all be SGs but LaVine is a completely different player from Buddy/Bogdan when they are quite similar. When you add in his cost and injury history I wouldn't take him instead of Buddy/Bogdan but being such a different player from those two I still think he'd be a great asset to have alongside them.
I'm sorry, but that's BS to bring up his stats from last season where you only had a 24 game sample size and he was still recovering from his injury. I'm also not the biggest advanced stats person at all. That fan purposely brought out those stats to nitpick how "bad" LaVine is. Some advanced stats are flawed because you're heavily affected by playing on a crapty team. I'm going to use those same exact stats to show you how silly it is to draw conclusions from them.
Look at Fox's rookie year.
In LaVine's case, it's a 24 game sample size. It's his first games coming off his surgery and rehab. He's playing on a very bad team. I wish I had an account to tell that person off.
Look at Fox's rookie year.
- He was 95/99 in RPM among all PGs at -4.27
- Carmelo projects Fox as a project, and he was one of the worst players in history last year according to their stats. As a matter of fact, his worth last year was -19.7million His worth next year is -6million
- BBref has Fox's VORP ranked 539/540 among all NBA players.
In LaVine's case, it's a 24 game sample size. It's his first games coming off his surgery and rehab. He's playing on a very bad team. I wish I had an account to tell that person off.
I'm all for getting Lavine. I don’t want to see Temple and Shumpert on the floor next year (maybe just a few minutes at the SF spot). A rotation of Fox, LaVine, Hield and Bogie at the 1-2-3 can work. There are enough minutes for everyone and Lavine and Bogie can play all 3 positions.
He’s young, has a scorer mentality (which we desperately need - it’s nice to pass the ball, but at the end of the day you need someone to put it in the basket), and has the upside to become a star in this league. He’s getting s lot of hate around here, it reminds me the hate Westbrook gets for his style of play (I’m not comparing the 2 players, just to be clear).
He’s young, has a scorer mentality (which we desperately need - it’s nice to pass the ball, but at the end of the day you need someone to put it in the basket), and has the upside to become a star in this league. He’s getting s lot of hate around here, it reminds me the hate Westbrook gets for his style of play (I’m not comparing the 2 players, just to be clear).
Actually I don't think Fox was good at all. However, this is his first year in the NBA and PG is the position requiring the most time to learn. He is also on rookie contract, so we can be patient with him. Lavine I watched for 3 years in Minnesota, it is not about last year statistics. Let me quote bulls fan from the board VF21 posted.
So, I'd prefer the team I root for does not bet 10-18 M$ per year on LaVine smartening all of sudden.
So, I'd prefer the team I root for does not bet 10-18 M$ per year on LaVine smartening all of sudden.
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Rookies almost allways have very bad rpm since they usually dont contribute to winning basketball in their 1st year. With point guards its even worse. Also Fox was playing in a worst possible system for him.
Lavine is a veteran that has allways been low RPM and low VORP (even when healthy) and there is a reason for that. He has basically never contributed to winning basketball and I dont have much hope he suddenly starts to do it here. Obviously he is worth 8mpy with his physical talent but 4years with +15mil could be a big mistake. Cap space is a huge asset for a rebuilding team and having an untradeable 70mil contract in your books makes the rebuilding even harder.
RPM and VORP arent bullet proof but if a player constantly has negative rpm and low vorp, you combine that knowledge with eye test to see why is that and with Lavine its pretty clear. No defense and low bbiq usually shows in those advanced statistics. Thats why players like Otto Porter and Covington are always high on those lists, they make their team a lot better while playing their role: space the floor, move the ball, make impact in individual and team defense ect.
Lavine is a veteran that has allways been low RPM and low VORP (even when healthy) and there is a reason for that. He has basically never contributed to winning basketball and I dont have much hope he suddenly starts to do it here. Obviously he is worth 8mpy with his physical talent but 4years with +15mil could be a big mistake. Cap space is a huge asset for a rebuilding team and having an untradeable 70mil contract in your books makes the rebuilding even harder.
RPM and VORP arent bullet proof but if a player constantly has negative rpm and low vorp, you combine that knowledge with eye test to see why is that and with Lavine its pretty clear. No defense and low bbiq usually shows in those advanced statistics. Thats why players like Otto Porter and Covington are always high on those lists, they make their team a lot better while playing their role: space the floor, move the ball, make impact in individual and team defense ect.
Again I'll just point out that these sample sizes are too small for me to pay em much mind, as it relates to these stats being bandied about as some word of god here on LaVine.
He's 23...
Lemme put it this way, would you argue that the situations he's been in Minnesota and Chicago to be near ideal? I'd say obviously not... far from it..
He's 23...
Lemme put it this way, would you argue that the situations he's been in Minnesota and Chicago to be near ideal? I'd say obviously not... far from it..
I'm not a fan of signing LaVine, but if we are interested in him, it would lead me to believe that they are wanting to move one of Hield or Bogdan. For instance, maybe they have been talking with the Lakers & Spurs about a deal that sends Leonard to the Lakers, Ingram to us, and Kuzma, Hield/Bogdan, Cauley-Stein, Labissiere, etc. to the Spurs. How would people feel about a lineup of:
PG - Fox / Mason
SG - LaVine / Hield / Temple
SF - Ingram / Jackson
PF - Bagley / Randolph
C - Giles / Koufos
That starting 5 would be pretty darn athletic.
PG - Fox / Mason
SG - LaVine / Hield / Temple
SF - Ingram / Jackson
PF - Bagley / Randolph
C - Giles / Koufos
That starting 5 would be pretty darn athletic.
Terrible signing if they do this. The team is going to lose for the next 2 years at least, and I can't see them signing him to a 4 or 5 year contract. They will probably do a 3 year with the third being an option. So why do it? They could use their cap space to absorb bad contracts and acquire draft assets and not waste money on something that isn't going to help their future. That's the difference between good front offices and bad ones.
This team has no reason to be bad next season because we don't own our first round pick. We should be looking at making moves that can help us win games, even if that means getting into the 30 plus win range. That would be the stepping stone towards a .500 season, then a winning season. It's all about making steps towards returning to the playoffs and building a positive culture. We've spent too long in the lottery and every year we are saying let's add one more piece, then it's another piece, and we are never satisfied and we never make sufficient progress because we are stuck with a habit of losing and aiming for more young talent to fill the void. Like I said, we need to be positive next season and try to win games and be competitive, otherwise we'll be sending a high value pick to Boston.
Now I do agree that we should try to acquire some assets in return, but that approach only works if the team intends to tank like Philly, otherwise we'll be sending a high value pick to Boston. Since we have no intention of doing that the players we'll want will be difference makers and not the typical salary dumps (e.g. Lakers will want rid of Deng, Knicks will try and deal Noah, Hornets might want rid of Batum). Some of those deals we should want nothing to do with. I'd rather take a risk on Lavine continuing to get better and being the answer at SG rather than take on salary dumps. Last year was the time to do that, not this one when we don't own our pick.
Now I do agree that we should try to acquire some assets in return, but that approach only works if the team intends to tank like Philly, otherwise we'll be sending a high value pick to Boston. Since we have no intention of doing that the players we'll want will be difference makers and not the typical salary dumps (e.g. Lakers will want rid of Deng, Knicks will try and deal Noah, Hornets might want rid of Batum). Some of those deals we should want nothing to do with. I'd rather take a risk on Lavine continuing to get better and being the answer at SG rather than take on salary dumps. Last year was the time to do that, not this one when we don't own our pick.
100% agree. You have to project his potential and he has a ton of potential to make the leap to a star. Not saying it would be the case and he could fizzle but well worth the risk in this case. I'm not saying it's like when Harden went from OKC to Rox but if he's 50% of that sort of impact it's a huge addition.
Why are people so dense in this fanbase? This is exactly WHY we need to make deals to absorb bad contracts along with picks! This team is used to dealing away their picks and for a franchise that has only one way of getting top tier talent, it is simply poor strategy to give up that method. We've seen what teams like Boston and Philly can do when they stock up picks, and we need to work towards that. At least with some draft picks, even a late first rounder, is better than nothing, and better than burning a pile of money for no reason on a mediocre wing that will do nothing during his time here.
No, we shouldn't. That doesn't help the team at all. It literally doesn't. Rather, it puts the team in worse position because the minutes going to somebody that doesn't need them, and the wins are meaningless if they don't help progress the young talent we have. This is simply a bad approach that this team has been using for the past decade. This is full rebuild mode, and you don't stop that after two years.
No, sorry, not happening. This team is winning probably 33-38 wins next year with or without Lavine.
"We lose alot so let's do what this team has always done to keep wins up but never enough to actually make a difference". Sorry Mr. MLE, not good enough. This is rebuild time, and it means using every advantage we have to better the team. Even if Lavine gets the team 5 more wins alone, it isn't worth it. He isn't going to be around when the young guys are hitting their prime, and his efforts are not going to help the team develop. What WILL help the team is using whatever advantage they have to better the future of the franchise, and that means they can get assets in return for cap space and not waste it on overpaying a free agent.
This is why you trade for picks instead of giving away picks. It isn't a matter of wanting to tank, it is a matter of this team isn't good enough to win. Period.
No, we shouldn't. That doesn't help the team at all. It literally doesn't. Rather, it puts the team in worse position because the minutes going to somebody that doesn't need them, and the wins are meaningless if they don't help progress the young talent we have. This is simply a bad approach that this team has been using for the past decade. This is full rebuild mode, and you don't stop that after two years.
No, sorry, not happening. This team is winning probably 33-38 wins next year with or without Lavine.
"We lose alot so let's do what this team has always done to keep wins up but never enough to actually make a difference". Sorry Mr. MLE, not good enough. This is rebuild time, and it means using every advantage we have to better the team. Even if Lavine gets the team 5 more wins alone, it isn't worth it. He isn't going to be around when the young guys are hitting their prime, and his efforts are not going to help the team develop. What WILL help the team is using whatever advantage they have to better the future of the franchise, and that means they can get assets in return for cap space and not waste it on overpaying a free agent.
This is why you trade for picks instead of giving away picks. It isn't a matter of wanting to tank, it is a matter of this team isn't good enough to win. Period.
