Luka Doncic (pre and post-draft discussion thread)

[dude12]

I disagree. It's not over analyzing. A legitimate weakness is that he struggles to break down defenders.

I don't know why this offends Doncic supporters so much. People have no problem breaking MPJ and Bagley down to inches, but when people bring up Doncic's weakness, all of a sudden it becomes nitpicking.

Are you saying he struggles to the point he will not be able to play in the NBA at an acceptable level?

And I dont consider myself a "Doncic " supporter. He's my first choice, but I'm ok with Bagley and a healthy Porter. I think there is severe over analyzing going on here. Doncic can play, he's going to be good.

 

[Telemachus]

Hasn't it already been proven Doncic is completely unable to advance as a basketball player? He's plateaued at 19 because he relies on his basketball brain against washed out NBA scrubs and not his jumping and measurables.

I know you are being sarcastic, but this line of thought is really ludicrous to me. I think it is much more likely for a player who relies on his athleticism to plateau at 19 or 20 than a player who relies on his skills. You have to put in work to develop skills, but athleticism is something that you are born with. Obviously, there are varying degrees of truth that those statements, but I am talking about the majority of those traits.

 

[ockingsfan]

I know you are being sarcastic, but this line of thought is really ludicrous to me. I think it is much more likely for a player who relies on his athleticism to plateau at 19 or 20 than a player who relies on his skills. You have to put in work to develop skills, but athleticism is something that you are born with. Obviously, there are varying degrees of truth that those statements, but I am talking about the majority of those traits.

I would also like to add that athleticism goes away with age and injury.

But, if someone has very good basketball skills, their skills and BBIQ tends to improve with age.

 

[funkykingston]

More commentary from guys who have played against Doncic, including a few with both NBA and Euroleague experience:

https://hoopshype.com/2018/06/20/luka-doncic-nba-draft-rumors-winner-larkin-dorell-jackson-upside/

 

[iowamcnabb]

With Luka, it’s “The strong take from the weak but the smart take from the strong”. He will adjust to the league and dominate imo. Since I don’t believe the Kings will take him Id like to see him go to a good organization. The Hawks have very little talent but they do have a pile of draft choices. Might be a good fit

 

[ESP47]

More commentary from guys who have played against Doncic, including a few with both NBA and Euroleague experience:

https://hoopshype.com/2018/06/20/luka-doncic-nba-draft-rumors-winner-larkin-dorell-jackson-upside/

Aaron Jackson: “He shot 31.1 percent from three-point range this year, but he has all the right mechanics and size to improve that percentage. He also has the size and strength to develop a go-to post move. And Doncic’s athleticism will only get better once he’s in the weight room with his NBA team. I just got to experience the difference between Euroleague strength and conditioning versus NBA strength and conditioning, and it’s night and day!”

 

[Jkbiker]

More commentary from guys who have played against Doncic, including a few with both NBA and Euroleague experience:

https://hoopshype.com/2018/06/20/luka-doncic-nba-draft-rumors-winner-larkin-dorell-jackson-upside/

That was an awesome article

I am so happy Kings can pick Luka or Marvin
I will be so happy with either player
If anyone can make the best choice in this situation Its Vlade and his staff

My only concern is who can we get at SF if its Marvin

 

[206Fan]

Are you saying he struggles to the point he will not be able to play in the NBA at an acceptable level?

And I dont consider myself a "Doncic " supporter. He's my first choice, but I'm ok with Bagley and a healthy Porter. I think there is severe over analyzing going on here. Doncic can play, he's going to be good.

oh no, I want Doncic at #2 too. I just think he'll struggle with that part of the game in the NBA because he already does in Europe.

More commentary from guys who have played against Doncic, including a few with both NBA and Euroleague experience:

https://hoopshype.com/2018/06/20/luka-doncic-nba-draft-rumors-winner-larkin-dorell-jackson-upside/

In general, it's very interesting that a majority of the European players believe he can be a superstar in the NBA, meanwhile American players believe he'll be a good player, but maybe not all-star level. There's a big discrepancy between the two.

Not sure if you've seen this one, but it features JT and a couple other former American NBA players: https://uproxx.com/dimemag/luka-don...uting-report-euroleague-strengths-weaknesses/

I also see that the American players emphasize the differences in athleticism and that Doncic will need to adjust to. Bogdan had trouble in the beginning of the year. He wasn't comfortable at all with how quickly NBA defenders closed in and recovered. It was evident with his 3pt shooting. He just wasn't prepared for how fast NBA defenders close out. His timing with his shot was altered by this, and that's why he came out the gates shooting under 30%. Then we also started to see him pass up wide open 3pt shots. However, Bogdan was able to adjust 1/3 way through the season and came out fine. I think Doncic will be able to adjust fine to the NBA, but there will be an adjustment period for him like every prospect. Just because he played in Euroleague doesn't mean he doesn't need to adjust like the college guys.

 

[ESP47]

oh no, I want Doncic at #2 too. I just think he'll struggle with that part of the game in the NBA because he already does in Europe.


In general, it's very interesting that a majority of the European players believe he can be a superstar in the NBA, meanwhile American players believe he'll be a good player, but maybe not all-star level. There's a big discrepancy between the two.

Not sure if you've seen this one, but it features JT and a couple other former American NBA players: https://uproxx.com/dimemag/luka-don...uting-report-euroleague-strengths-weaknesses/

I also see that the American players emphasize the differences in athleticism and that Doncic will need to adjust to. Bogdan had trouble in the beginning of the year. He wasn't comfortable at all with how quickly NBA defenders closed in and recovered. It was evident with his 3pt shooting. He just wasn't prepared for how fast NBA defenders close out. His timing with his shot was altered by this, and that's why he came out the gates shooting under 30%. Then we also started to see him pass up wide open 3pt shots. However, Bogdan was able to adjust 1/3 way through the season and came out fine. I think Doncic will be able to adjust fine to the NBA, but there will be an adjustment period for him like every prospect. Just because he played in Euroleague doesn't mean he doesn't need to adjust like the college guys.

In that article, Errick McCollum has about the most honest opinion and detailed breakdown on Doncic I've seen to date from a player.

 

[The Effort Police]

Don't know where to put this, but Amick is saying that ownership is meddling with the decision making.

 

[SLAB]

Don't know where to put this, but Amick is saying that ownership is meddling with the decision making.

Meddle for Doncic --- All for it

Meddle for Bagley --- Sure

Meddle for Porter Jr --- I'm terrified this is who Vivek is meddling for.

-------

Just saw response to a tweet, believes Porter Jr is out, thinks ownership is pushing for Bagley despite fans pushing for Doncic. No one has a read on Vlade.

Bagley camp feels good at 2, Doncic camp afraid ownership will pass.

https://twitter.com/statuses/1009533337755516928

Amick's response tweet says "That is essentially what I said, yes." but it's attatched to another tweet with a swear, so I didn't link it.

 

[funkykingston]

oh no, I want Doncic at #2 too. I just think he'll struggle with that part of the game in the NBA because he already does in Europe.


In general, it's very interesting that a majority of the European players believe he can be a superstar in the NBA, meanwhile American players believe he'll be a good player, but maybe not all-star level. There's a big discrepancy between the two.

Not sure if you've seen this one, but it features JT and a couple other former American NBA players: https://uproxx.com/dimemag/luka-don...uting-report-euroleague-strengths-weaknesses/

I also see that the American players emphasize the differences in athleticism and that Doncic will need to adjust to. Bogdan had trouble in the beginning of the year. He wasn't comfortable at all with how quickly NBA defenders closed in and recovered. It was evident with his 3pt shooting. He just wasn't prepared for how fast NBA defenders close out. His timing with his shot was altered by this, and that's why he came out the gates shooting under 30%. Then we also started to see him pass up wide open 3pt shots. However, Bogdan was able to adjust 1/3 way through the season and came out fine. I think Doncic will be able to adjust fine to the NBA, but there will be an adjustment period for him like every prospect. Just because he played in Euroleague doesn't mean he doesn't need to adjust like the college guys.

The Hoopshype article also had a number of American players who spent time in the NBA like Shane Larkin and Pierre Jackson.

How many competitive players that we're in the NBA and then ended up in Europe are likely to annoint a Slovenian kid as a potential NBA star? Jason Thompson especially comes to mind as a salty dude that would have the mindset that if he (JT) couldnt stick in the NBA that there's no way Luka would go over and be a great player. Never mind that JT is getting just a few minutes for Fenerbahce while Doncic was the league MVP.

Everybody sees things through their own lens.

Me, I see Luka as a high floor guy that could bring a fun, passing offense back to Sacramento but is likely never the best player on a playoff/contending team. I think the path for him to be an NBA star is very narrow. I could see him maybe making an all-star game or two but not consistently a top 20-30yp player over his career.

I think Bagley has a better shot of being a multiple time all-star but I could also see Bagley being a guy who puts up stats on bad teams.

Outside of Ayton I'm not seeing franchise players in this draft. Bamba could be a game changer defensively but he'll likely never be a guy you toss the ball to at the end of games to get you a tough bucket.

So to me it really comes down to what skills & strengths you value as a team. Defense? Passing and shooting? Inside scoring and rebounding?

One more day.

 

[funkykingston]

Don't know where to put this, but Amick is saying that ownership is meddling with the decision making.

I hope it's not true. Because honestly that's always been my fear - that Vivek publicly says he's learned his lesson, will leave basketball decisions to the front office etc but behind closed doors is still pulling strings and mucking up the process.

 

[gunks]

Don't know where to put this, but Amick is saying that ownership is meddling with the decision making.

Not surprising.

 

[The Effort Police]

Meddle for Doncic --- All for it

Meddle for Bagley --- Sure

Meddle for Porter Jr --- I'm terrified this is who Vivek is meddling for.

-------

Just saw response to a tweet, believes Porter Jr is out, thinks ownership is pushing for Bagley despite fans pushing for Doncic. No one has a read on Vlade.

Bagley camp feels good at 2, Doncic camp afraid ownership will pass.

https://twitter.com/statuses/1009533337755516928

Amick's response tweet says "That is essentially what I said, yes." but it's attatched to another tweet with a swear, so I didn't link it.

I don't really care who Vivek is meddling for; just don't do it.

Let Vlade be bad at his job on his own.

 

[NewArena]

I keep reading everywhere that we need to draft Bagley because he In the long term will be the better player. This may be true, but how is Luka not allowed to get better in the long term? Luka is 19 and hasn't even fully grown into his body, nor worked on it. Just craziness... Draft Luka... Basketball IQ like His doesn't come around everyday.

Especially on this team. I’m crossing my fingers real real hard

 

[NewArena]

Not surprising.

Oh Amick, please. I’m not buying it

All of these writers have an agenda and compete for who can crap on the Kings the hardest

 

[NewArena]

Blob also is the one who declared Tatum as a bust and if I remember correctly, for quite similar reasons. I wouldnt put too much weight on that

Lol! Woops

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

I hope it's not true. Because honestly that's always been my fear - that Vivek publicly says he's learned his lesson, will leave basketball decisions to the front office etc but behind closed doors is still pulling strings and mucking up the process.

I'm actually surprised it took this long for a report on meddling ownership to show up

 

[YoungBlood]

Take a look at past NCAA players of the year or euro MVPs. It's not a who's who list of successful NBA players. Has nothing to do with how their games will translate.

Well for one most are upperclassmen or older players. Doncic is 19

 

[SacTownKid]

If there is truth to the ownership meddling then my bet would be he's meddling FOR Luka Doncic, not against. Seriously, this is the utmost Warriors type of player there is and we all know Vivek is infatuated with them still.

 

[steelevt]

If there is truth to the ownership meddling then my bet would be he's meddling FOR Luka Doncic, not against. Seriously, this is the utmost Warriors type of player there is and we all know Vivek is infatuated with them still.

I would think his meddling would be for Trae young

 

[TaxMan]

If there is truth to the ownership meddling then my bet would be he's meddling FOR Luka Doncic, not against. Seriously, this is the utmost Warriors type of player there is and we all know Vivek is infatuated with them still.

I love it....cue the new thread with everyone speculating who Vivek wants to take. I'm sure we'll see the pro vs. con -benefit of owner meddling debate!!

 

[Kingster]

Speed isn't the only thing you need to get passed someone on the perimeter. That video describing his athleticism talked about his ability to stop and change directions at an elite level. That's the same thing Harden does despite being not a super explosive athlete. Doncic is fairly quick anyway from what I've seen. The NBA right now is being exploited by pick and roll and he can effectively run that with ease so he'll be alright IMO. Steph Curry isn't constantly breaking people down but if you set a screen defenders are helpless because they risk the foul if they look at him sideways. If used properly there is no way a player that has elite court vision and shooting ability can't be really good in the current NBA.

Imo, quickness is very important in determining whether a guy can be a star wing. Sure, there are exceptions. Magic Johnson for one. In today's game, maybe Gordon Hayward if you think he's a star. I wouldn't categorize Hayward as a star, but some would. (Note that it took Hayward several years in order to finally figure it out). In any case, I tend to give quickness a lot of weight when it comes to evaluating wings. Doncic doesn't look that quick to me and my observation is supported by nba.com which ranks him 7 out of 10 in the quickness/athleticism department, and having followed them for years I think they're pretty good evaluators of those qualities. Also, these clips I see with him dancing around with the ball at the top of the key going nowhere also give me great pause. That's a big big tell - dribble, dribble, dribble, and not getting anywhere.

Steph Curry has absolutely nothing to do with Doncic. You mention that Doncic is elite in shooting. He's absolutely not. The stats don't come close to support that notion. Doncic isn't remotely close to Curry in shooting. Curry breaks people down all the time because he's quick enough and because defenders have to guard him at the half court line due to his shooting. Sure, if Doncic were close to Curry in shooting I'd be clamoring for him to be the pick, but that's not even close to reality.

So the quickness isn't there. Elite shooting sure isn't there. Let's call him an ok shooter at this point. What is there is a very high BBIQ and his passing ability. How much is that passing ability worth? How much is he going to have to have the ball in his hands in order to see that passing ability affect games on the court? And if he needs the high usage, where does that leave Fox, Bogs and Giles? If Doncic doesn't have the ball in his hands, where does he make an impact on the game? In rebounding? His stats seem pretty average in that department. On defense? Hard to see him having an above average effect on the defensive end with his average at best athleticism. So I just don't see the value that Doncic adds to the equation.

 

[Hoovtrain]

Vivek still meddling huh? Shocker

 

[SacTownKid]

Imo, quickness is very important in determining whether a guy can be a star wing. Sure, there are exceptions. Magic Johnson for one. In today's game, maybe Gordon Hayward if you think he's a star. I wouldn't categorize Hayward as a star, but some would. (Note that it took Hayward several years in order to finally figure it out). In any case, I tend to give quickness a lot of weight when it comes to evaluating wings. Doncic doesn't look that quick to me and my observation is supported by nba.com which ranks him 7 out of 10 in the quickness/athleticism department, and having followed them for years I think they're pretty good evaluators of those qualities. Also, these clips I see with him dancing around with the ball at the top of the key going nowhere also give me great pause. That's a big big tell - dribble, dribble, dribble, and not getting anywhere.

Steph Curry has absolutely nothing to do with Doncic. You mention that Doncic is elite in shooting. He's absolutely not. The stats don't come close to support that notion. Doncic isn't remotely close to Curry in shooting. Curry breaks people down all the time because he's quick enough and because defenders have to guard him at the half court line due to his shooting. Sure, if Doncic were close to Curry in shooting I'd be clamoring for him to be the pick, but that's not even close to reality.

So the quickness isn't there. Elite shooting sure isn't there. Let's call him an ok shooter at this point. What is there is a very high BBIQ and his passing ability. How much is that passing ability worth? How much is he going to have to have the ball in his hands in order to see that passing ability affect games on the court? And if he needs the high usage, where does that leave Fox, Bogs and Giles? If Doncic doesn't have the ball in his hands, where does he make an impact on the game? In rebounding? His stats seem pretty average in that department. On defense? Hard to see him having an above average effect on the defensive end with his average at best athleticism. So I just don't see the value that Doncic adds to the equation.

It might not have been clear, I said he had elite court vision. The shooting ability was intended to be separate, although I do think his numbers will climb in the NBA as it's well known the difference in defense of the European game has an effect on productivity.

You also mention a bunch of 6'8" play makers. I guess it's a good thing Doncic is one of those huh? I've watched enough plays from him in the post as well to suggest that if teams attempt to put smaller, quicker defenders on him post up possibilities abound. And it's not as if Luka is incapable of getting around players. I seem to recall seeing video of him doing that to a very good defender in Victor Oladipo.

 

[SacTownKid]

I would think his meddling would be for Trae young

Don't even say it! haha. I'm sure if that were the case Vlade would have leaked that one himself.

 

[VF21]

Vivek still meddling huh? Shocker

One Sam Amick quote does not truth make.

 

[Kingster]

It might not have been clear, I said he had elite court vision. The shooting ability was intended to be separate, although I do think his numbers will climb in the NBA as it's well known the difference in defense of the European game has an effect on productivity.

You also mention a bunch of 6'8" play makers. I guess it's a good thing Doncic is one of those huh? I've watched enough plays from him in the post as well to suggest that if teams attempt to put smaller, quicker defenders on him post up possibilities abound. And it's not as if Luka is incapable of getting around players. I seem to recall seeing video of him doing that to a very good defender in Victor Oladipo.

It doesn't look to me they have to put a smaller player on him to outquick him. I would imagine they'll put a typical SF defender on him.

 

[DesertFox]

Taking the ball out of Fox, Bogi, and Giles(?!) hands is not a concern. The Rockets make it work with 2 of the most controlling guards in the nba. That will not be an issue.