Luka Doncic (pre and post-draft discussion thread)

[Hansel]

I'm sorry to correct on this matter again, but that's not true.

1. Even if you get by your man in FIBA basketball you'll find the area well protected by big men (no def 3 sec violation)

2. Doncic is an oversized SF in Europe, he was usually guarded by smaller/faster player so it's understandable not to get by them (we saw him post up his man several times on the other hand). When he was matched with his size opponent, he do definetely getting by them.

3. Is it that important? Tyreke for example was getting by almost everyone, then he didn't know what to do after. Doncic is all the time aware of what's going on around him.

 

[sactowndog]

I'm sorry to correct on this matter again, but that's not true.

1. Even if you get by your man in FIBA basketball you'll find the area well protected by big men (no def 3 sec violation)

2. Doncic is an oversized SF in Europe, he was usually guarded by smaller/faster player so it's understandable not to get by them (we saw him post up his man several times on the other hand). When he was matched with his size opponent, he do definetely getting by them.

3. Is it that important? Tyreke for example was getting by almost everyone, then he didn't know what to do after. Doncic is all the time aware of what's going on around him.

Yes it matters because his size person in the NBA is as quick as a 2 Guard in Europe. He won’t be able to shoot over them as easily

 

[Sam0ah]

I keep reading everywhere that we need to draft Bagley because he In the long term will be the better player. This may be true, but how is Luka not allowed to get better in the long term? Luka is 19 and hasn't even fully grown into his body, nor worked on it. Just craziness... Draft Luka... Basketball IQ like His doesn't come around everyday.

 

[206Fan]

I'm sorry to correct on this matter again, but that's not true.

1. Even if you get by your man in FIBA basketball you'll find the area well protected by big men (no def 3 sec violation)

2. Doncic is an oversized SF in Europe, he was usually guarded by smaller/faster player so it's understandable not to get by them (we saw him post up his man several times on the other hand). When he was matched with his size opponent, he do definetely getting by them.

3. Is it that important? Tyreke for example was getting by almost everyone, then he didn't know what to do after. Doncic is all the time aware of what's going on around him.

1. But Blob's entire point was that Doncic struggles to get by defenders, not that he has trouble finishing around the rim

2. I agree he was guarded by quicker players than him, BUT the NBA has elite athletes.

3. Yes getting by defenders if very important in the NBA. It's a weakness of his right now. Tyreke and Doncic are different types of players.

His lack of a first-step is a concern, question is, how big of a concern should it be?

 

[Sam0ah]

1. But Blob's entire point was that Doncic struggles to get by defenders, not that he has trouble finishing around the rim

2. I agree he was guarded by quicker players than him, BUT the NBA has elite athletes.

3. Yes getting by defenders if very important in the NBA. It's a weakness of his right now. Tyreke and Doncic are different types of players.

His lack of a first-step is a concern, question is, how big of a concern should it be?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The subpar athlete burns the dunk contest level athlete: <a href="https://t.co/w4es08swcW">pic.twitter.com/w4es08swcW</a></p>&mdash; Jake Paynting (@jakepaynting) <a href="

https://twitter.com/statuses/1008974430880460801

">June 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[ESP47]

Every prospect has some sort of relatively big weakness you have to hope they can overcome.

If Doncic is never able to get by his man in the NBA without a great pick, he's at worst going to wind up as effective as Bogie.

If Bagley can't play adequate defense, he's going to have to be a 22+ppg 12rpg player to break even.

You could go down the list on all these guys. It comes down to who you think can fix their deficiencies and who is going to play the best winning basketball. I have the same concerns as most everyone else about Doncic's ability to work his way through defenders in the NBA but I also see that this kid just sort of has an "it" factor to him that you only see when watching his tape. I don't doubt that Bagley will put up numbers in the NBA but they will turn out to be empty stats if he can't defend or isn't surrounded by the perfect team for him in the same way IT was in Boston. I think Doncic just fits with anyone and is a plug and play piece that you don't have to mold a certain type of team around to be successful. He might not have quite as high a ceiling as some of these other guys but I think he's going to play winning basketball for a long time.

 

[206Fan]

Not sure if this has been posted, but he's loved by all his teammates

 

[dude12]

There is too much over analyzing going on. Breaking down film too much and stating that because Doncic couldn't get past his man on this play, therefore he can't get past his men most of the time. Look, sometimes guys get defended well by good defenders....that goes most if not all NBA players at some level. Will Doncic have trouble getting past every NBA player? GTFOH. The kid can play. Don't know if he's going to be a better passing Paul Pierce or not but he's going to be good.....maybe great..only time will tell

 

[Gguod]

1. But Blob's entire point was that Doncic struggles to get by defenders, not that he has trouble finishing around the rim

2. I agree he was guarded by quicker players than him, BUT the NBA has elite athletes.

3. Yes getting by defenders if very important in the NBA. It's a weakness of his right now. Tyreke and Doncic are different types of players.

His lack of a first-step is a concern, question is, how big of a concern should it be?

Blob also is the one who declared Tatum as a bust and if I remember correctly, for quite similar reasons. I wouldnt put too much weight on that

 

[206Fan]

There is too much over analyzing going on. Breaking down film too much and stating that because Doncic couldn't get past his man on this play, therefore he can't get past his men most of the time. Look, sometimes guys get defended well by good defenders....that goes most if not all NBA players at some level. Will Doncic have trouble getting past every NBA player? GTFOH. The kid can play. Don't know if he's going to be a better passing Paul Pierce or not but he's going to be good.....maybe great..only time will tell

I disagree. It's not over analyzing. A legitimate weakness is that he struggles to break down defenders.

I don't know why this offends Doncic supporters so much. People have no problem breaking MPJ and Bagley down to inches, but when people bring up Doncic's weakness, all of a sudden it becomes nitpicking.

 

[Hallama]

I think most clips on Doncic not breaking down his man occur late in the shot clock where he has no choice and the defense knows what he's going to do, not a position of strength offensively in those situations. Otherwise, he attacks close outs and I've seen some burst in normal situations. Not worried about it at all.

 

[SacKings123]

Not sure if this was shared yet but why wouldn't you want this person on your team? Everyone is involved and gets a piece of the pie!

 

[Joshoua]

This is a bit of a deal breaker for me.

Luka's inability to get by his man is his biggest weakness as a prospect. He does so much dancing just to end up with a contested jumpshot. As I said before, he's not going to be able to constantly get away with the dancing. It's why I think having Fox next to him is a good fit. Fox can drive inside.

Who is your pick?

Porter: has the same issues can’t get to the rim but also is a terrible passer, black hole, and elementary handles.

Bagley: His defense is a shame if he doesn’t become a 22-10 guy we’d be screwed if he’s defense is average.

Donic atleast will be an elite passer and pick and roll player

 

[Dime Dropper]

I disagree. It's not over analyzing. A legitimate weakness is that he struggles to break down defenders.

I don't know why this offends Doncic supporters so much. People have no problem breaking MPJ and Bagley down to inches, but when people bring up Doncic's weakness, all of a sudden it becomes nitpicking.

I actually agree with you, and I'm a big Doncic fan. That really is the one question about his upside in my mind, his first step. It's not terrible, and he's at times shown a decent first step. It's just not great. It might also be improved a little when he reaches his physical prime. It may not hinder him at all or even be an issue at the next level, but for me it's definitely the most relevant question. I don't see any issues with other parts of his game translating, which is why I think it's so unlikely he'll be a bust.

I mean, the example above where he beats Oladipo off the dribble as a 17 year old, shows that it may not be an issue. He's more athletic now than he was then and has more room to grow.

 

[Blob]

I disagree. It's not over analyzing. A legitimate weakness is that he struggles to break down defenders.

I don't know why this offends Doncic supporters so much. People have no problem breaking MPJ and Bagley down to inches, but when people bring up Doncic's weakness, all of a sudden it becomes nitpicking.

33 year old Rudy Fernandez going for 30 yesterday while Luka got only 8 (including lucky desperation fling) would be like Korver going for 40 while LeBron got 10 in an NBA Finals game. I mean c'mon, this guy is such a stud, where's the emphatic performance as an exclamation point to his Euro career as stepping stone to the NBA? Don't get me wrong, I like this kid. I am not anti-Luka. But the effusive praise is not commensurate with the talent. Something else is that Bagley has more of an alpha nature. Doncic may have a flip switch (like C-Webb did) when he gets on the floor, but he's more of a docile personality. Again, don't take this the wrong way. This is just observation and another plus in the Bagley column. Bagley's personality is a better fit for what we are trying to develop in my estimation.

 

[funkykingston]

33 year old Rudy Fernandez going for 30 yesterday while Luka got only 8 (including lucky desperation fling) would be like Korver going for 40 while LeBron got 10 in an NBA Finals game. I mean c'mon, this guy is such a stud, where's the emphatic performance as an exclamation point to his Euro career as stepping stone to the NBA? Don't get me wrong, I like this kid. I am not anti-Luka. But the effusive praise is not commensurate with the talent. Something else is that Bagley has more of an alpha nature. Doncic may have a flip (like C-Webb did) when he gets on the floor, but he's more of a docile personality. Again, don't take this the wrong way. This is just observation and another plus in the Bagley column. Bagley's personality is a better fit for what we are trying to develop in my estimation.

Assuming Giles is healthy AND assuming he and Bagley can play together, you'd have two bigs that play with that aggressive mentality. If Giles gets anywhere near back to where he was, he's even more of a junk yard dog on the court than Bagley, with impressive skills as well.

I'm okay with Doncic or Bagley, in part because either would help give the Kings an identity. With Luka it would hopefully be a return to a motion offense, passing throughout the lineup and beautiful offense. With MB3 it would be more of a hard nosed, high motor team that just grinds and wears other teams out.

Passing is contagious but so is motor and aggressiveness.

 

[SacTownKid]

33 year old Rudy Fernandez going for 30 yesterday while Luka got only 8 (including lucky desperation fling) would be like Korver going for 40 while LeBron got 10 in an NBA Finals game. I mean c'mon, this guy is such a stud, where's the emphatic performance as an exclamation point to his Euro career as stepping stone to the NBA? Don't get me wrong, I like this kid. I am not anti-Luka. But the effusive praise is not commensurate with the talent. Something else is that Bagley has more of an alpha nature. Doncic may have a flip switch (like C-Webb did) when he gets on the floor, but he's more of a docile personality. Again, don't take this the wrong way. This is just observation and another plus in the Bagley column. Bagley's personality is a better fit for what we are trying to develop in my estimation.

Luka may have decided to take a bit of a step back, what a tragedy it would be for him to go into his last game and get injured, right? I see some of your concerns with Luka as a prospect and while I do think the EL is a better league, there is no question that the NCAA features the most prolific talent. But the question is whether it matters as much if the best prospects are matched up only a few times during the year if at all. I think it balances out. In the end I don't think anyone can take anything away from Luka, he has earned his spot as a top tier prospect.

 

[Hansel]

33 year old Rudy Fernandez going for 30 yesterday while Luka got only 8 (including lucky desperation fling) would be like Korver going for 40 while LeBron got 10 in an NBA Finals game. I mean c'mon, this guy is such a stud, where's the emphatic performance as an exclamation point to his Euro career as stepping stone to the NBA? Don't get me wrong, I like this kid. I am not anti-Luka. But the effusive praise is not commensurate with the talent. Something else is that Bagley has more of an alpha nature. Doncic may have a flip switch (like C-Webb did) when he gets on the floor, but he's more of a docile personality. Again, don't take this the wrong way. This is just observation and another plus in the Bagley column. Bagley's personality is a better fit for what we are trying to develop in my estimation.

No offense, you don't know anything of European basketball then.
It's not about personal numbers in Europe, no one care.

 

[Kingster]

When I see Luka make a play, I often think "Boggy can do that" I suggest fans watching Luka imagine whether Boggy can make the same play. More than not the answer is yes. What Luka can do Boggy cannot is he can throw longer cross court passes. His height allows him to see over the top to the weak side. This is a nice skill no doubt. Luka can also go battle with the bigs in the paint. Beyond this they are similar with Boggy the better shooter. Of course Luka projects as the better pro (due to his age and size) and of course it would be nice to add Luka to the team. But it is a luxury we cannot afford. Look at this play 0:35. Luka cannot beat his man out of a 1-4. Defender forces change of direction twice snd stays in front. The ref bails him out with a ticky tack call. I don't like the look at this play. It gives me a pause.

THAT is what really bothers me about him. He's going to see better defenders in the NBA and this issue of not being able to get past his man is going to be problematic, imo. Note also that he does the push off in order to get space. If you can't get past your man as a wing in the NBA can you be a star? I just don't see it. You can be a pick and roll type player, a guy who uses picks to get open, but you've got to be able to drive and kick or shoot in the NBA at the wing in order to be a star.

 

[ESP47]

33 year old Rudy Fernandez going for 30 yesterday while Luka got only 8 (including lucky desperation fling) would be like Korver going for 40 while LeBron got 10 in an NBA Finals game. I mean c'mon, this guy is such a stud, where's the emphatic performance as an exclamation point to his Euro career as stepping stone to the NBA? Don't get me wrong, I like this kid. I am not anti-Luka. But the effusive praise is not commensurate with the talent. Something else is that Bagley has more of an alpha nature. Doncic may have a flip switch (like C-Webb did) when he gets on the floor, but he's more of a docile personality. Again, don't take this the wrong way. This is just observation and another plus in the Bagley column. Bagley's personality is a better fit for what we are trying to develop in my estimation.

Luka isn't the the best player in Europe. He's just a 19 year year old that has done things that no other kid his age has done in Europe. It's of no surprise to anyone that there are better players out there. It's basically like how your boy Donovan Mitchell looked great as a rookie. He's not a top 20 player yet but you can bet that he will be one very soon.

 

[SacTownKid]

THAT is what really bothers me about him. He's going to see better defenders in the NBA and this issue of not being able to get past his man is going to be problematic, imo. Note also that he does the push off in order to get space. If you can't get past your man as a wing in the NBA can you be a star? I just don't see it. You can be a pick and roll type player, a guy who uses picks to get open, but you've got to be able to drive and kick or shoot in the NBA at the wing in order to be a star.

Speed isn't the only thing you need to get passed someone on the perimeter. That video describing his athleticism talked about his ability to stop and change directions at an elite level. That's the same thing Harden does despite being not a super explosive athlete. Doncic is fairly quick anyway from what I've seen. The NBA right now is being exploited by pick and roll and he can effectively run that with ease so he'll be alright IMO. Steph Curry isn't constantly breaking people down but if you set a screen defenders are helpless because they risk the foul if they look at him sideways. If used properly there is no way a player that has elite court vision and shooting ability can't be really good in the current NBA.

 

[Telemachus]

Luka isn't the the best player in Europe. He's just a 19 year year old that has done things that no other kid his age has done in Europe. It's of no surprise to anyone that there are better players out there. It's basically like how your boy Donovan Mitchell looked great as a rookie. He's not a top 20 player yet but you can bet that he will be one very soon.

Interesting stats on Mitchell.
In college he averaged 7.4 pts, 3.4 rbs and 1.7 asts while shooting 44% (25% 3pt) as a Freshman. He averaged 15.6 pts, 4.9 rbs and 2.7 asts while shooting 41% (35% 3pt) as a Sophomore.
His rookie year he averaged 20.5 pts, 3.7 rbs and 3.7 asts while shooting 44% (34% 3pt). He was almost as good or better at everything in the NBA than he was in college.

 

[NewArena]

The league is so overrated. The whole second best league in the world thing is so tired at this point. Every year the best rookies come from the NCAA. Every single year. With one or two decent euros sprinkled in.

That isn’t an indictment on the EuroLeague itself, though. Most NCAA teams would get destroyed out lol get real, guys.

 

[ESP47]

Interesting stats on Mitchell.
In college he averaged 7.4 pts, 3.4 rbs and 1.7 asts while shooting 44% (25% 3pt) as a Freshman. He averaged 15.6 pts, 4.9 rbs and 2.7 asts while shooting 41% (35% 3pt) as a Sophomore.
His rookie year he averaged 20.5 pts, 3.7 rbs and 3.7 asts while shooting 44% (34% 3pt). He was almost as good or better at everything in the NBA than he was in college.

Yeah I really liked the way Quin Snyder gave him the keys early on. With the loss of Hayward, I don't think they were expecting big things in Utah so it was a good choice to let him off the leash from the start. He had some really inefficient games to start the year but got better and better as the season went on. He was almost the opposite of the player I thought he was going to be. I thought he was going to be the best defensive rookie and a so so offensive player but that script got flipped around in a hurry.

I kind of wish Joerger had done the same with Fox, but who knows, maybe Fox wasn't ready for something like that.

 

[NewArena]

The reason Atlanta is warming up to Luka is all the talk of Kings taking Bagley
If Kings take Luka , then atlanta will take Bagley

I guess what I am saying is it is coming to Luka and Bagley being the #2 and #3(or 3 and 2) in this draft
and atlanta will pick one of them after Sacto

And I do not think Atlanta will give up any assets to move up so they can choose
(unless they really want Bagley reallll bad)

Thank God we are number 2. Whew

Don’t mess this up Vlade!!

 

[King Baller]

I disagree. It's not over analyzing. A legitimate weakness is that he struggles to break down defenders.

I don't know why this offends Doncic supporters so much. People have no problem breaking MPJ and Bagley down to inches, but when people bring up Doncic's weakness, all of a sudden it becomes nitpicking.

Reading all this makes me wonder how the kid is MVP?

 

[roasthawg]

Reading all this makes me wonder how the kid is MVP?

Take a look at past NCAA players of the year or euro MVPs. It's not a who's who list of successful NBA players. Has nothing to do with how their games will translate.

 

[SLAB]

Interesting stats on Mitchell.
In college he averaged 7.4 pts, 3.4 rbs and 1.7 asts while shooting 44% (25% 3pt) as a Freshman. He averaged 15.6 pts, 4.9 rbs and 2.7 asts while shooting 41% (35% 3pt) as a Sophomore.
His rookie year he averaged 20.5 pts, 3.7 rbs and 3.7 asts while shooting 44% (34% 3pt). He was almost as good or better at everything in the NBA than he was in college.

Hasn't it already been proven Doncic is completely unable to advance as a basketball player? He's plateaued at 19 because he relies on his basketball brain against washed out NBA scrubs and not his jumping and measurables.

 

[Telemachus]

Yeah I really liked the way Quin Snyder gave him the keys early on. With the loss of Hayward, I don't think they were expecting big things in Utah so it was a good choice to let him off the leash from the start. He had some really inefficient games to start the year but got better and better as the season went on. He was almost the opposite of the player I thought he was going to be. I thought he was going to be the best defensive rookie and a so so offensive player but that script got flipped around in a hurry.

I kind of wish Joerger had done the same with Fox, but who knows, maybe Fox wasn't ready for something like that.

I think that with Mitchel being older, he was more ready for the NBA especially from a physical standpoint. We knew that Fox would need to get stronger before he ever stepped on the court. Personally, I think that is Fox's biggest weakness. Adding strength helps his endurance, his ability to finish through contact and his outside shooting (he usually misses short which is usually a sign of fatigue or lack of strength). Strength will also help him on the defensive side of the court in fighting through screens. If Fox gets stronger he should improve most of his weaknesses as a result.

 

[roasthawg]

Mitchell is the type of athlete that gets better in the NBA with the extra spacing. He's an explosive athlete.