Luka Doncic (pre and post-draft discussion thread)
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BS like THIS ARTICLE really irks me. Whenever the National media or whomever rumor a Kings trade, it always benefits the other team much more than the Kings.
They actually suggest a Kings-Clippers trade involving #12, #13, Sam Dekker and Sindarius Thornwell for the #2.
Ok, sure. Whatever. If they had #5 and #10, I'd think about it.
They actually suggest a Kings-Clippers trade involving #12, #13, Sam Dekker and Sindarius Thornwell for the #2.
Ok, sure. Whatever. If they had #5 and #10, I'd think about it.
Gotta love Bleacher Report, your best source for you-get-what-you-pay-for journalism (and by this, I mean Bleacher Report has been widely criticized for exploiting unpaid "writers").
This "writer", paid or unpaid, didn't take even the briefest look at our roster, or he'd realize that a 4-for-1 trade leaves us with 18 taken roster spots (assuming Temple opts in - that does count our #36 this year and Nigel Hayes, who is unguaranteed, but still). Oh, also, why are we trading for #12 and #13 in a draft that has 6 potential stars at the top? As dumb as this trade is, it gets worse!
Again, we trade out of the sweet 6 to pick up a relatively disappointing PG with rumors of a bad work ethic when we just drafted Fox, who we hope to be our franchise PG last year? Ha ha! The Kangz are dumb! Wait, it gets better!
Now we're not only giving up the #2, we're giving up HARRY GILES? I mean, maybe our Bleacher Report "expert" can't be bothered to follow the entire NBA or something, but everybody and their mother knows that reports out of Sac indicate Giles is healthy and looking like he deserved to be a top-5 pick last year. But no, we want to throw that away and get Lance Thomas and ANOTHER disappointing PG to play instead of Fox! Yeah! That'd be super!
Look, I'm all for dumping Zach Randolph, but first off, I ain't attaching no #2 pick to make it happen, and second, Miami is desperate to dump Whiteside. What, so desperate that they get a #2 pick in return? And all it costs them is another pretty disappointing player in Winslow and a relatively unknown SG (our BIGGEST NEED) coming off a stress fracture? I mean, if salary dumps work like this, WAIT A MINUTE WE DON'T EVEN GET A PICK BACK?!?!?! IS ANYBODY EVEN DRIVING THIS THING?!?!?!
Huh. Like that's probably kinda fair. Must have been an accident.
This "writer", paid or unpaid, didn't take even the briefest look at our roster, or he'd realize that a 4-for-1 trade leaves us with 18 taken roster spots (assuming Temple opts in - that does count our #36 this year and Nigel Hayes, who is unguaranteed, but still). Oh, also, why are we trading for #12 and #13 in a draft that has 6 potential stars at the top? As dumb as this trade is, it gets worse!
Again, we trade out of the sweet 6 to pick up a relatively disappointing PG with rumors of a bad work ethic when we just drafted Fox, who we hope to be our franchise PG last year? Ha ha! The Kangz are dumb! Wait, it gets better!
Now we're not only giving up the #2, we're giving up HARRY GILES? I mean, maybe our Bleacher Report "expert" can't be bothered to follow the entire NBA or something, but everybody and their mother knows that reports out of Sac indicate Giles is healthy and looking like he deserved to be a top-5 pick last year. But no, we want to throw that away and get Lance Thomas and ANOTHER disappointing PG to play instead of Fox! Yeah! That'd be super!
Look, I'm all for dumping Zach Randolph, but first off, I ain't attaching no #2 pick to make it happen, and second, Miami is desperate to dump Whiteside. What, so desperate that they get a #2 pick in return? And all it costs them is another pretty disappointing player in Winslow and a relatively unknown SG (our BIGGEST NEED) coming off a stress fracture? I mean, if salary dumps work like this, WAIT A MINUTE WE DON'T EVEN GET A PICK BACK?!?!?! IS ANYBODY EVEN DRIVING THIS THING?!?!?!
Huh. Like that's probably kinda fair. Must have been an accident.
if KAT is really on the table... and it cost WCS, Justin and #2.... wow - that seems like something you'd have to do. Would turn the draft party Thursday into kind of a bummer but KAT ... oh boy... that's the kind of franchise jackpot you hope you pluck from the lottery. I'd pretty for sure do that.
I don't think Anthony-Towns is really on the table. If there is friction between he and Thibs then I think it's more likely that Thibs is shown the door than it is that KAT us dealt.
That said, that is a reasonable trade. Of course next season is also the last if KAT's rookie deal so it would mean re-signing him for max money. My only concern there is that he has yet to carry that team to the playoffs, even with the addition of Jimmy Butler. I love his game but it's a legitimate concern.
That said, that is a reasonable trade. Of course next season is also the last if KAT's rookie deal so it would mean re-signing him for max money. My only concern there is that he has yet to carry that team to the playoffs, even with the addition of Jimmy Butler. I love his game but it's a legitimate concern.
He's ranked 7th here
http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/21307077/nba-draft-rankings-espn-top-100-prospects-2018
Ringer has Ayton #1 in the mock draft because they know Robert Sarver is a fool with UoA ties so he won't pass on the hyped up Arizona prospect. Kevin O'Connor has said numerous times that he has Doncic #1 prospect as does guys like Jonathan Tjarks as well. Tjarks has Ayton as the 9th ranked prospect.
I think if the Kings had won the lottery and drafted Ayton, you guys would be disappointed. Be grateful that you did not win the lottery and will instead get a future HOFer and one that has a good chance to end up top 4 greatest Kings ever.
http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/21307077/nba-draft-rankings-espn-top-100-prospects-2018
Ringer has Ayton #1 in the mock draft because they know Robert Sarver is a fool with UoA ties so he won't pass on the hyped up Arizona prospect. Kevin O'Connor has said numerous times that he has Doncic #1 prospect as does guys like Jonathan Tjarks as well. Tjarks has Ayton as the 9th ranked prospect.
I think if the Kings had won the lottery and drafted Ayton, you guys would be disappointed. Be grateful that you did not win the lottery and will instead get a future HOFer and one that has a good chance to end up top 4 greatest Kings ever.
NBA has changed and shifted to small guys league and for a center to be franchise player he has to be very good on offense so he can get 20+ ppg. from what I saw his post game is decent and he often uses his size to finish, but NBA is not kids game he used to play in college. also his three point shooting is not something I rate much with centers, I want my center to be in paint, trying to get rebounds and protect first pass and slow down opponent.. this is good with Jokic, who streaches, leaves empty paint and than passes to guys who cut inside, so for him it is useful skill.
also I saw they mentioned his toughness as a weakness, and this is red flag for his type of play. like he is playing with kids now and sole length is enough, but when he comes to big boys league, they will kick him, push him, chip him and unless he fights back, he will not do much with his length.
if he gets more tough and builds muscle he can be very good defender, but I just do not see something in his offense to convince me he is more than pop option.
now do not get me wrong, we are talking about #2 pick here a go to guy and somebody who has potential to lead a franchise.. if there is a chance for Vlade to get Bamba by trading WCS and a little bit more, I would say it is a good move.
also I saw they mentioned his toughness as a weakness, and this is red flag for his type of play. like he is playing with kids now and sole length is enough, but when he comes to big boys league, they will kick him, push him, chip him and unless he fights back, he will not do much with his length.
if he gets more tough and builds muscle he can be very good defender, but I just do not see something in his offense to convince me he is more than pop option.
now do not get me wrong, we are talking about #2 pick here a go to guy and somebody who has potential to lead a franchise.. if there is a chance for Vlade to get Bamba by trading WCS and a little bit more, I would say it is a good move.
I'd definitely take that deal even with his free agency looming (after all, the Kings are going to be forced to make a free agency decision on WCS this summer if he's not dealt) but I just don't see Minnesota offering it. Again, if Thibodeau is trying to push out KAT I think the result would be a new coach and GM instead. But we'll see.
This draft looks like it has a ton of quality talent available but the reality is that statistically of the guys looked at as being the top 7 available (Ayton, Bagley, Doncic, Jackson Jr, Bamba, Porter Jr and Young) one guy will be a superstar, 1 or two others will be sometime all-stars, 1 or two will be solid starters, one or two will be disappointments and two will be busts. Trading a pick for a young all-star center carries some risk but is largely a no-brainer.
This draft looks like it has a ton of quality talent available but the reality is that statistically of the guys looked at as being the top 7 available (Ayton, Bagley, Doncic, Jackson Jr, Bamba, Porter Jr and Young) one guy will be a superstar, 1 or two others will be sometime all-stars, 1 or two will be solid starters, one or two will be disappointments and two will be busts. Trading a pick for a young all-star center carries some risk but is largely a no-brainer.
And this is exactly how it should be. People need to stop looking too deep into the meaning of anything they are doing right now. They probably have a favorite at this point, but doing their diligence. No reason in the world should ANYONE other than the Kings decision makers know what they want to do at this point.
I'm tired of reading this blurb about Doncic being the "most accomplished teenage basketball player of the last 20 years." I don't care if he's the most accomplished teenage player in europe in 50 years, 100 years. Makes no difference whatsoever. What counts is what kind of basketball player he is going to be over the next decade or so in the NBA. If you've lived on this planet for any length of time you've seen young guys that topped out much earlier than you would think. Heck, I remember a guy in my junior high who was Mr. Universe in athletics and then he was so-so relatively speaking when he got into high school. Then we know stories about late bloomers who turned out great - the Greek Freek for one. Jordan for another. And then there is the guy who is great in high school and remains great in the NBA - LBJ. You can come up with examples for every category. The analysis for the Kings is all about one thing - how much better or worse is he going to be in the NBA three or four years from now?
Of course there is no guarantee with Doncic
But being accomplished has to be good for something or? I mean you could make the same argument for any attribute. We have seen high scorers fail and low scorers succeed. We have seen great defenders fail and bad defenders win.
But if the conclusion is that none of what happened in the past of a player has any predictive power, then why look at it anyway? You'd be just as good by selecting at random.
But being accomplished has to be good for something or? I mean you could make the same argument for any attribute. We have seen high scorers fail and low scorers succeed. We have seen great defenders fail and bad defenders win.
But if the conclusion is that none of what happened in the past of a player has any predictive power, then why look at it anyway? You'd be just as good by selecting at random.
I could give you my answer, but my answer is nothing but a guess. All any team can do is make their best guess based on as much information that they can find. Which of course is more than I'll have. Or you'll have. If a player works hard, he can improve his skill level. So if Doncic is a hard worker, he'll get better. The one thing a player can't significantly improve is his athleticism. If you don't have great lateral quickness, you can improve is a little, but in most cases, not enough to make a big difference.
So my guess would be, that if you have a player like Bagley for instance, who is a freak athlete, but is a little weak in the skills dept, but he still puts up big numbers despite that, then you probably have a player, who with hard work, can be significantly better down the road. Translated that means, if he's good now, without those skills, he'll likely be a monster with them. = Very high ceiling....
On the other hand, when you have a player, like Doncic for example, who is maybe, a little better than average athlete, but highly skilled, who put up above average numbers in Europe, is likely to get a little better with hard work, but the jump will not be as significant as the jump Bagley made. Lets be honest, freak athlete's that are highly skilled are rare, and the chances of any of these top players becoming that are slim. Because if they become that, then you have the next Michael Jordan, or Lebron James. Those are once in a lifetime players.
But the chances of a Bagley becoming a Paul George, Dwayne Wade or a Kevin Garnett (referring to talent level only) isn't that far fetched. But I think the chances of Doncic reaching that level is unlikely. Doesn't mean he can't make an impact or be an all star, but I can't see him ever approaching superstar status. Of course I could be dead wrong! But for the most part, I think history is on my side. If you lack that elite athleticism, it's more difficult to reach that status, but not impossible. However, I'll take an average athlete that's highly skilled over an unskilled elite athlete all day long. Assuming I'm talking about a finished product.
So my guess would be, that if you have a player like Bagley for instance, who is a freak athlete, but is a little weak in the skills dept, but he still puts up big numbers despite that, then you probably have a player, who with hard work, can be significantly better down the road. Translated that means, if he's good now, without those skills, he'll likely be a monster with them. = Very high ceiling....
On the other hand, when you have a player, like Doncic for example, who is maybe, a little better than average athlete, but highly skilled, who put up above average numbers in Europe, is likely to get a little better with hard work, but the jump will not be as significant as the jump Bagley made. Lets be honest, freak athlete's that are highly skilled are rare, and the chances of any of these top players becoming that are slim. Because if they become that, then you have the next Michael Jordan, or Lebron James. Those are once in a lifetime players.
But the chances of a Bagley becoming a Paul George, Dwayne Wade or a Kevin Garnett (referring to talent level only) isn't that far fetched. But I think the chances of Doncic reaching that level is unlikely. Doesn't mean he can't make an impact or be an all star, but I can't see him ever approaching superstar status. Of course I could be dead wrong! But for the most part, I think history is on my side. If you lack that elite athleticism, it's more difficult to reach that status, but not impossible. However, I'll take an average athlete that's highly skilled over an unskilled elite athlete all day long. Assuming I'm talking about a finished product.
Is Doncic athletic for a PF? Given his age/body composition/where game is that’s where I think he’s headed.
The more I think about Vivek’s trip to Spain, the more it signaled to me the Kings aren’t playing games with their interest level. As much as I want Vivek to remain in the background, the fact that he made it a point to travel half way around the world, when it usually isn’t typical for owners to be involved heavily in the process at all, makes me think the interest is there
The more I think about Vivek’s trip to Spain, the more it signaled to me the Kings aren’t playing games with their interest level. As much as I want Vivek to remain in the background, the fact that he made it a point to travel half way around the world, when it usually isn’t typical for owners to be involved heavily in the process at all, makes me think the interest is there
I think we need to choose our words more carefully. The spoken word has inflection where the written word doesn't. So one can glean more from an actually conversation in person than what's written. On the other hand, when one has the time to write, one can be more thoughtful about it and hopefully choose his or her words more carefully. For example, when I read what you've written, I could easily come away with the opinion that you put zero value on the past history of a player. But I know that's not what your implying.
And, you also seem to be implying that everyone else wants to pick said player, based entirely on his past history, which, at least for me isn't true. It's certainly a part of it, probably a large part of it, but not the entire case. Someone told me once that the word assume means U make an A$$ out of me. In other words assuming things can get you into trouble. But there's a lot of assuming that goes on here by everyone. One of the reasons I tend to write long posts is because I'm trying to make sure that what I'm trying to say is as clear as possible.
I might add, that despite that, there's always someone that misunderstands me. Or perhaps doesn't want to understand me. Or, lacks reader comprehension.
And, you also seem to be implying that everyone else wants to pick said player, based entirely on his past history, which, at least for me isn't true. It's certainly a part of it, probably a large part of it, but not the entire case. Someone told me once that the word assume means U make an A$$ out of me. In other words assuming things can get you into trouble. But there's a lot of assuming that goes on here by everyone. One of the reasons I tend to write long posts is because I'm trying to make sure that what I'm trying to say is as clear as possible.
I might add, that despite that, there's always someone that misunderstands me. Or perhaps doesn't want to understand me. Or, lacks reader comprehension.
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