Marvin Bagley III

[206Fan]

If it were up to you Blob, how would you build around Bagley in the future? Who would you target? I think the best would be to start him next to a stretch 5 so he can have space inside. And you could unleash him as a backup five.

Teambuild is probably my main concern with him but I don't know If I am overthinking it.

Not Blob, but Bagley is someone who I can see developing a consistent 3pt shot by year 3. So we wouldn't necessarily need a floor stretcher next to him, but it would also ride on how Fox develops his 3pt shot.

 

[SacTownKid]

I think Marvin Bagley is by far the easiest slide right in and fit player in the whole draft. He and Fox on the break, Buddy and Bogdan running pick and roll with him and spacing for him is total pie.

 

[kingdivac]

This is a great post, really sums up my hesitation with Bagley. Without him being a great rim protector to go along with his offense his upside seems to be limited. I'm really hoping Porter blows everyone away with his workouts cause on paper if he was healthy he's the higher upside guy imo.

If the Kings want Porter, they may be able to trade down for a 2nd player. His back is a ?-mark though

 

[ParniValjak]

I think I have settled on Marvin Bagley III as my personal choice at #2 provided that Suns as expected, pick Ayton at #1

Brings instant rebounding, scoring potential, athleticism (so he can run with Fox) and just excellent motor and work ethic. Potential to be a perennial all-star but still able to contribute straight away as a rebounder at least. A very smooth mover. Moves like a guard. Jumper will get better.

 

[sterö]

I like Bagley and I wouldn't be too unhappy if we pick him at #2. Only question mark for me is his limited wingspan/length, which basically limits him to the 4 position. Would be interesting to see his standing reach measurement.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

Hes absolutely Relentless on every single play.
Combine that with his skill, size and athleticism and you've got a very special player.

And like others have said, he fits well with this group. Bogi gets his Pick & Roll/ Pick and Pop/Lob guy. And fox gets someone that can keep up with him. Our transition game could be deadly.

 

[allrightythen]

Hes absolutely Relentless on every single play.
Combine that with his skill, size and athleticism and you've got a very special player.

And like others have said, he fits well with this group. Bogi gets his Pick & Roll/ Pick and Pop/Lob guy. And fox gets someone that can keep up with him. Our transition game could be deadly.

I've read that he has a really good practice reputation as well which I think bodes really well for him reaching his ceiling. I would be very comfortable with drafting him. Guys with that reputation seem more likely to reach their potential and overcome their weaknesses.

 

[Gguod]

Bagley isnt very high on my board. What will Bagley be even if he reaches his potential, or how valuable player he will be? He will always be a defensive liablity, hes not quick and agile enough to be a pure wing defender and he isnt a rim protector. It will be hard to be a good defensive team with him as a starter.

A lot of his value is based off of his ability to shoot threes. I find it quite concerning that he didnt shoot a lot and he shot something like 62% on the line and that have usually been a very good indicator of wether the player will be a good shooter in the nba.

Worst case scenario, and imo quite possible scenario, is that he cant play center and he plays as a 4 but cannot stretch the floor. High usage, low efficency post up player that came to the league 15 years too late.

I could also see him becoming very good but that depends on him being able to shoot threes and developing defensive instincts and being able to be a passable switch defender. But without those things he has very little value in todays leage so I really hope we wont draft him.

 

[roasthawg]

Bagley isnt very high on my board. What will Bagley be even if he reaches his potential, or how valuable player he will be? He will always be a defensive liablity, hes not quick and agile enough to be a pure wing defender and he isnt a rim protector. It will be hard to be a good defensive team with him as a starter.

A lot of his value is based off of his ability to shoot threes. I find it quite concerning that he didnt shoot a lot and he shot something like 62% on the line and that have usually been a very good indicator of wether the player will be a good shooter in the nba.

Worst case scenario, and imo quite possible scenario, is that he cant play center and he plays as a 4 but cannot stretch the floor. High usage, low efficency post up player that came to the league 15 years too late.

I could also see him becoming very good but that depends on him being able to shoot threes and developing defensive instincts and being able to be a passable switch defender. But without those things he has very little value in todays leage so I really hope we wont draft him.

Exactly my take on him. Without a 3pt shot is he a Kenneth Faried type? Maybe Faried is his floor but it also seems rather unlikely he goes way beyond that... To me at least.

 

[ESP47]

Exactly my take on him. Without a 3pt shot is he a Kenneth Faried type? Maybe Faried is his floor but it also seems rather unlikely he goes way beyond that... To me at least.

I agree with the premise here but I think he's going to be way better than Faried. Their defensive problems and high level motors are the same but the comp kind of ends there. Bagley is taller, way more skilled and has a decent looking jump shot so far. He could wind up being Anthony Davis like on offense. He has those kinds of skills in the making. Faried never had comparisons like that. He's more like a JaKarr Sampson. Doesn't have the skills but he brings his lunch pail to work every day and puts in all the effort he can muster. Bagley does the exact same thing except he has real skills to go along with it. There aren't many players out there that do both and that's what has a lot of people excited despite his possible ill fit in the league.

 

[roasthawg]

I agree with the premise here but I think he's going to be way better than Faried. Their defensive problems and high level motors are the same but the comp kind of ends there. Bagley is taller, way more skilled and has a decent looking jump shot so far. He could wind up being Anthony Davis like on offense. He has those kinds of skills in the making. Faried never had comparisons like that. He's more like a JaKarr Sampson. Doesn't have the skills but he brings his lunch pail to work every day and puts in all the effort he can muster. Bagley does the exact same thing except he has real skills to go along with it. There aren't many players out there that do both and that's what has a lot of people excited despite his possible ill fit in the league.

That's a good take, made me feel better about Bagley. Even if worst case is Faried the guy is gonna have a solid career. But the upside is the key at #2.

 

[Gguod]

I agree with the premise here but I think he's going to be way better than Faried. Their defensive problems and high level motors are the same but the comp kind of ends there. Bagley is taller, way more skilled and has a decent looking jump shot so far. He could wind up being Anthony Davis like on offense. He has those kinds of skills in the making. Faried never had comparisons like that. He's more like a JaKarr Sampson. Doesn't have the skills but he brings his lunch pail to work every day and puts in all the effort he can muster. Bagley does the exact same thing except he has real skills to go along with it. There aren't many players out there that do both and that's what has a lot of people excited despite his possible ill fit in the league.

Yes, most likely he will be at least an above average offensive player. But him without reliable 3 point shot and ability to switch is a very low value player. I find it more likely that he wont have both of those abilities, so even if he becomes 17/9 player, I wouldnt draft him.

 

[Padrino]

There aren't many players out there that do both and that's what has a lot of people excited despite his possible ill fit in the league.

That’s kinda the bummer about the modern NBA, isn’t it? The league is trending so hard in one particular direction that supremely athletic, supremely talented bigs like Bagley might not be able to find their place. And after watching the insane brickfests from beyond the arc in the last several playoff games, I find myself hoping that NBA fans turn on the three-point revolution sooner rather than later so the league has incentive to adjust the rules in a way that opens up the game to a greater diversity of playstyles and player types again.

 

[Livinthedream]

That’s kinda the bummer about the modern NBA, isn’t it? The league is trending so hard in one particular direction that supremely athletic, supremely talented bigs like Bagley might not be able to find their place. And after watching the insane brickfests from beyond the arc in the last several playoff games, I find myself hoping that NBA fans turn on the three-point sooner rather than later so the league has incentive to adjust the rules in a way that opens up the game to a greater diversity of playstyles and player types again.

Things have a way of coming full circle.

In my opinion, the Warriors and to some extent the Rockets are anomaly's. They are executing their 3point shooting strategy in ways other teams can't, simply because other teams don't have the same personnel. And that type of personnel is not easy to come by. Everyone wants to be them and are trying desperately to find the pieces. A smart coach will come along and find a way to counteract the trend. The way teams have been defending the fast paced 3point shooting teams now is by switching everything and playing positionless basketball. It's what George Karl wanted to turn the Kings into, but our players were terrible and fans weren't patient with it.

Soon the majority of teams will be positionless, fast paced shooting teams. Then a Shaq like player comes along and is able to shoot 60%+ from the paint, obliterating the 3pt numbers advantage, and impose his will on the smaller teams. Then all the NBA teams will be looking for their Shaq like player. The key is, you don't want to be the NBA team behind the curve chasing the trends. You want to set them.

 

[mac]

Things have a way of coming full circle.

In my opinion, the Warriors and to some extent the Rockets are anomaly's. They are executing their 3point shooting strategy in ways other teams can't, simply because other teams don't have the same personnel. And that type of personnel is not easy to come by. Everyone wants to be them and are trying desperately to find the pieces. A smart coach will come along and find a way to counteract the trend. The way teams have been defending the fast paced 3point shooting teams now is by switching everything and playing positionless basketball. It's what George Karl wanted to turn the Kings into, but our players were terrible and fans weren't patient with it.

Soon the majority of teams will be positionless, fast paced shooting teams. Then a Shaq like player comes along and is able to shoot 60%+ from the paint, obliterating the 3pt numbers advantage, and impose his will on the smaller teams. Then all the NBA teams will be looking for their Shaq like player. The key is, you don't want to be the NBA team behind the curve chasing the trends. You want to set them.

But until that Shaq player comes along, all the teams trying to buck the trend end up failing while the copycats at least make it somewhere. You could deceive yourself into thinking you should be different, that your team shouldn't shoot 3s, that your bigs shouldn't shoot 3s, and you would find yourself destroyed by the trend that you were trying so hard to buck.

 

[sactowndog]

It's a good analysis. Just like Bagley has been somewhat odd in his lack of defensive prowess, Jackson is a little odd in his mediocre rebounding. I'd really have see more film of him to evaluate that aspect of his game. (Maybe he's going after blocks at the expense of rebounds?) I agree that shot blocking can be overrated, but Jackson's shot blocking is not the result of just length and jumping ability, but his ability to anticipate and glide out on the floor. He makes up ground in hurry on offensive players on the perimeter. I haven't seen that from a big guy in long long while. His fluidity is something else for a big man and I think that translates eventually to something very good on the offensive end.

At the end of the day, I probably end up where I began - Bagley. The main reason is that he's probably the lowest risk All Star that I see on the board. (That includes Ayton). He's the no-brainer, especially on offense.

I picked Bagley but I’m not sure how he is a no brainer on offense with his current free throw shooting percentages. .627 does not indicate a good shooter. By comparison Ayton = .733, Jackson = .797, and Bamba = .681

 

[sactowndog]

Bamba is no slouch or sloth at his size, he is athletic and thin, he can run the floor just fine. He just needs to fix his nutrition and conditioning and he will be able to run up and down the court just fine, in my opinion. Even if Bamba doesn't provide the offense the Kings lack, he at the very least can provide the Kings a much needed defensive and rebounding presence. He may be foul prone at first until he learns the game better but none the less, I wouldn't be upset if they took him, even though I don't see that as a possibility anyway but it's nice to think hypothetically until we know for certain.

As far as Randle, I like Randle, he is tough and brings it but if the Kings draft a big, they have too many as is. One or two of Skal/Willie and Z-Bo need to be shipped and replaced with shooting because you can't throw out all that out there with no floor spacers, way too easy to defend.

Skal’s shooting is actually pretty good. It’s everything else he sucks at.

 

[Livinthedream]

But until that Shaq player comes along, all the teams trying to buck the trend end up failing while the copycats at least make it somewhere. You could deceive yourself into thinking you should be different, that your team shouldn't shoot 3s, that your bigs shouldn't shoot 3s, and you would find yourself destroyed by the trend that you were trying so hard to buck.

All I was saying was things come full circle. But as of right now, the only success I see is the GSW and Lebron James. What that tells me is it's about the players.

 

[kingsboi]

Skal’s shooting is actually pretty good. It’s everything else he sucks at.

his three point shooting is good but that's on minimal attempts for the season so those stats can be deceiving. Need to see more shot attempts and he needs to reduce his arch on the shots, they are way too high in my opinion.

 

[sactowndog]

his three point shooting is good but that's on minimal attempts for the season so those stats can be deceiving. Need to see more shot attempts and he needs to reduce his arch on the shots, they are way too high in my opinion.

His high release makes his shot hard to block. Dude shoots .805 from the line. Skal can shoot. Needs to spend all summer in the weight room next to Fox and study film with Bogdan but he’s the best shooting big on the Kings.

 

[BeerNerd916]

If the Suns take Doncic, we should take Ayton. If the Suns take Ayton, we should take Bagley. Simple. This has been my stance since the night of the lottery and I don't see any reason to come off of it after watching a lot of tape on these guys. This is not being against Doncic, who I like a lot, this is being for players who are more likely to be dominant.

If you accept the premise that Doncic is better younger version of Boggy, ask yourself how much better is he? So is Doncic 30% better? 40% better? 100% better? I don't know if you can quantify.

Boggy is great as a passer out of the pick and roll. So is Doncic. Both are multi-position defenders. Boggy can guard 2s and 3s and low level 1s. Doncic will be able to guard 2s and 3s and low level 4s. Both have good awareness defensively. Fundamentally sound. Doncic may get clipped more often getting over picks because of his size. But he can do it.

Doncic is better getting the board and going coast-to-coast. He is better at carving space in the lane with his size. He probably has better foot speed, not that he is blazing. Boggy is the better catch and shoot guy and better off the ball. Though this aspect of Doncic's game will catch up with experience.

So the difference amounts to Doncic doing more at a younger age, height and weight. Doncic foremost skill if he has one is controlling tempo on offense, exploiting lanes and passing angles. He is not great at beating his man off the bounce but he does have decent juke moves that will work against more slow footed wings.

To maximize the ability of Doncic you have to take the ball out of the hands of Fox and Boggy. It could work. Sharing is caring. But I want the ball in Fox hand on the break and often in the half court sets. I want Boggy slicing and dicing.

How many cooks do we want in the kitchen? This is not a strong case against Doncic, because one cannot objectively be made, but variables to consider.

This brings me to Bagley. This kid destroyed the ACC at the tender age of 18 with a 31 PER 64% TS and 21.5% rebound rate....including 4 offensive rebounds per game! If you accept the premise we have three legitimate core players (Buddy, Boggy, Fox), and a bunch of guys still trying to figure it out, then ask how to best complement this trio?

Fox - superior athlete
Buddy - average athlete
Boggy - average athlete
----
Bagley - superior athlete
Doncic - average athlete

Do you want to add another average athlete in Doncic to our core? I am not thrilled by the idea of it. Bagley and Fox as superior athletes with good skill better complement our average athletes (Buddy, Boggy) with superior skill. I am all aboard with BPA but the pieces need to fit!

Another average athlete further relegates you to a half court style that this coach purports to be adverse to. The stats say otherwise.

If we are building around Fox, give him guys to run with. Thats Bagley. Bagley and Fox would be a devastating duo. Bagley can get you 15 PPG the first half of the season and probably 20 PPG in the second half with transition, half hooks, lobs, put backs and beneficiary of pick and roll with Boggy and Fox. He can a #1 option on offense. I mean, this is fairly obvious to me, if we are not so overly intrigued by the European Wonder Boy with duplicative skill set.

Baby Giraffe over at Sactown Royalty brought up the pace the Kings play despite having the fastest PG in the NBA. Our pace was dead last.

With Doncic, he is going to push it. He's going to run. But he's not going to beat you with his speed. He's savvy. He's going to make passes over the top in half court sets. Bagley is going to outrun you. He is going to clear the boards so we can run. He can defense rebound then fill the lane! From a stylistic standpoint, and to get the most out of Fox, Doncic is NOT the optimal choice with Bagley on the board.

Ayton is a more dominant version of Bagley with more defensive upside. He's not going to run the floor as well, but because of increased length and power, he is the obvious pick over Bagley. Ayton is the obvious choice for the Suns. Whether they do the obvious remains to be seen!

Jaren Jackson and Bamba project as better defenders than Bagley. Jackson is not going to be a hub offensively. He is Derrick Favors-like to me. He is 10 PPG 12 RPG with shot blocking. I want a more versatile scorer at #2. Bamba is a great prospect but there is more risk there with his high center of gravity. But he is coordinated with nice hands and feet. He is going to be great as long as his team is patient. He is going to take more seasoning. Bagley will provide more immediate returns and the safer pick.

All this is kind of obvious to me. I hope its obvious to Vlade.

I love all of this. I think Doncic is redundant at the present. The Kings are entering win now mode and look to be an immediate 3 years away from Bogie's prime and about 7-8 years away from his decline. I for one want his best years playing playoff basketball and not still searching for front court answers.

From all reports, those who have seen him say Giles is very similar to Draymond Green, almost a richer mans version of Green. If that is the case and he does plan out that way I want to pair him with an immediate upgrade athletic and motor wise in the frontcourt than Willie and Skal. I like Doncic and believe he will be a solid pro with a couple/few all star nods under his belt and, especially with the right team, a couple all NBA appearances. I dont think the Kings are that team however.

I prefer the idea of Fox having a running mate to get out and fly up and down the court with and if by chance that option closes being able to kick it back out to his wing shooters who are deadeye marksman.

I just think Doncic will be a slightly better Bogie and is redundant to our team whereas I think Bagley would be a tremendously great fit and would make us reach the next level much quicker and easier.

 

[kingsboi]

His high release makes his shot hard to block. Dude shoots .805 from the line. Skal can shoot. Needs to spend all summer in the weight room next to Fox and study film with Bogdan but he’s the best shooting big on the Kings.

that's not really saying much considering the Kings' bigs can't shoot

 

[gunks]

I may be in the minority here, but I'm still a Skal believer! Next season is his breakout year!

 

[roasthawg]

I like the odds of one of either WCS or skal to improve and turn into a good player. That said I feel pretty confident at this moment that we're gonna draft Bagley. He's healthy, he's athletic, he's productive, and he has the pedigree. Maybe we hedge our bet with Giles by keeping WCS around or maybe we trade him. Skal is probably relegated to backup minutes.

 

[Joshoua]

I love all of this. I think Doncic is redundant at the present. The Kings are entering win now mode and look to be an immediate 3 years away from Bogie's prime and about 7-8 years away from his decline. I for one want his best years playing playoff basketball and not still searching for front court answers.

From all reports, those who have seen him say Giles is very similar to Draymond Green, almost a richer mans version of Green. If that is the case and he does plan out that way I want to pair him with an immediate upgrade athletic and motor wise in the frontcourt than Willie and Skal. I like Doncic and believe he will be a solid pro with a couple/few all star nods under his belt and, especially with the right team, a couple all NBA appearances. I dont think the Kings are that team however.

I prefer the idea of Fox having a running mate to get out and fly up and down the court with and if by chance that option closes being able to kick it back out to his wing shooters who are deadeye marksman.

I just think Doncic will be a slightly better Bogie and is redundant to our team whereas I think Bagley would be a tremendously great fit and would make us reach the next level much quicker and easier.

A slightly better bogie is an insult Doncic is light years better st the same age with 2-3 inches and 40 pounds on him

 

[sactowndog]

I like the odds of one of either WCS or skal to improve and turn into a good player. That said I feel pretty confident at this moment that we're gonna draft Bagley. He's healthy, he's athletic, he's productive, and he has the pedigree. Maybe we hedge our bet with Giles by keeping WCS around or maybe we trade him. Skal is probably relegated to backup minutes.

I think WCS is pretty much who he is. Currently he is a better player than Skal but he won’t become a great rebounder or a great shooter. I also believe reports that Giles is a better player and I believe Bagley/Ayton will be. That means Skal or WCS is coming off the bench with Koufos and I don’t see WCS accepting of that role.

That’s why if we find a decent trade we should make it.

 

[sactowndog]

I may be in the minority here, but I'm still a Skal believer! Next season is his breakout year!

Might be 2-3 years but I agree Skal has some potential. He has a great shot which he can stretch to 3. He is very long. He just has limited BBIQ. We can only hope it’s a result of his limited experience and he gets better and stronger.

 

[BeerNerd916]

A slightly better bogie is an insult Doncic is light years better st the same age with 2-3 inches and 40 pounds on him

Which BEGS my point. You draft Doncic and you need to trade Bogie. And then you still need to find front court help. So basically what you and sactowndog want to do is draft a player who is immediately moot talentwise but bogs down the inpact just to fulfill your Aileen Voisin chiseled chest pretty boy look.

Careful with the "light years better at the same age" lest we start looking up Bogies stats

 

[sactowndog]

Which BEGS my point. You draft Doncic and you need to trade Bogie. And then you still need to find front court help. So basically what you and sactowndog want to do is draft a player who is immediately moot talentwise but bogs down the inpact just to fulfill your Aileen Voisin chiseled chest pretty boy look.

Careful with the "light years better at the same age" lest we start looking up Bogies stats

Where are you getting I want to draft Doncic? I haven’t come close to making that claim. I have said if we draft Bagley/Ayton we should look to trade WCS if we have a decent offer.

 

[John Galt]

I don't know why anybody would not want to have Bogi and super-bigger-better Bogi on the same team. What is so terribly wrong with Fox, Bogi, Luka, Randle, Giles? I don't see the problem with Bogi and Luka together and I actually can't wait to see it. They are not the same guy. And you have THREE big clutch scoring threats in the backcourt.