Bizarro Wide World of Sports Lin Championship
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It’s all a matter of odds. Granted your best case might work out like your claim the Memphis win wouldn’t matter. But if you play against the odds too long you insure you will be a long time loser.
Lastly the Jazz are one of the best drafting orgs in the league while the Kings are one of the worst. Not sure using the Jazz as a model it can be done is helpful because the Jazz draft Gobert and we draft PappaG.
Lastly the Jazz are one of the best drafting orgs in the league while the Kings are one of the worst. Not sure using the Jazz as a model it can be done is helpful because the Jazz draft Gobert and we draft PappaG.
I understand the math. I understand that if we had a better draft position we would be more likely to acquire a star and become a better team. no argument there.
All Im saying is that its not a certainty that all these tankers are on their way to playoff success while we are stuck in mud. Jazz success is not easy to replicate, but neither is Philadelphia's, albeit it probides a more likely path. but the odds of that more likely path are still low.
All Im saying is that its not a certainty that all these tankers are on their way to playoff success while we are stuck in mud. Jazz success is not easy to replicate, but neither is Philadelphia's, albeit it probides a more likely path. but the odds of that more likely path are still low.
That is of course unless you're agreeing with one point of view (the one held by most of the mods, not necessarily Cpt. who is generally very fair). In which case you can feel free to deride other posters, call them unethical, have a full thread about them being cheaters, or as seen in a post still up in last night's game thread, call them nerds. Then rule 1 and 2 are more like guidelines to be loosely and subjectively interpreted and enforced.
For the record, I'm generally not in favor of deleting any posts, but it has to be noted only one side is getting moderated in this debate. Sorry, that's the last I'll say on it. I swore I was done with this board based on how the last issue was moderated but old habits die hard...
For the record, I'm generally not in favor of deleting any posts, but it has to be noted only one side is getting moderated in this debate. Sorry, that's the last I'll say on it. I swore I was done with this board based on how the last issue was moderated but old habits die hard...
Geez, good thing for some of the members on the forum here that the season is over. Criticizing mods, teeth gnashing over the tanking process, the future is bleak, Golden One is going to be empty in 2 years, this forum is losing membership because of made up reasons, mods taking one side over the other...irregardless of requests for game threads, the youngsters are not playing well enough in our rebuilding......maybe take a deep breath and decompress Kings fans.
Lots of good things have happened this year, you just have to want to see it.
Lots of good things have happened this year, you just have to want to see it.
Lol. You really want to go back and forth on this?
Of course you can cite players that didn’t work out. They are certainly far more players that don’t make it than do, even those that have tremendous size and length. The point was, someone being undersized doesn’t automatically mean they can’t make it and be productive.
Of course you can cite players that didn’t work out. They are certainly far more players that don’t make it than do, even those that have tremendous size and length. The point was, someone being undersized doesn’t automatically mean they can’t make it and be productive.
The "tanking" should have occurred immediately after the All-Star break. The vacillation of vets vs. youngins after the break determined the season's outcome, and that vacillation goes to directly to management. The only way that the Kings lose this game against Houston would be to put Caboclo and Sampson at the guard positions.
Let's start with this draft. If Divac gets the luck of the ping pong balls, it's all good. Everything regarding the Kings' tanking strategy goes out the window and all the people (like me) who were concerned with the non-strategy of the Kings to get a high ping pong ball percentage looks moot, and maybe even foolish. We can all rejoice then in a top three pick. If the Kings would get the sixth pick, it's possible some other team does something stupid and a player that has high potential drops to the Kings. Again, all is good.
But if the Kings get the 7th or 8th pick, it doesn't look good. Vlade then probably drafts a guy who has so-so ability who is either a decent role player or a flat out bust, not exactly what most Kings fans had in mind. That's the situation where the pressure starts to build. Then Vlade has to do something very good in FA, which is highly unlikely, or a trade, which is scary. For the most part, the only players he has to trade are developing young prospects in which there is very little certainty of their ultimate potential. The two "developed" young players that could possibly be traded would be Hield or Bogs. (If he really likes Young in the draft at the 7th or 8th position, he could make a deal at or prior to the draft sending one of the above to a team in a trade to obtain a small forward, power forward, or center). Barring that, he has to trade undeveloped youngins who could either be extremely good, or not, just depending. It's like selling a seedling when you don't know whether it's going to turn into a redwood tree or weed. As a rule of thumb, you don't get top dollar for undeveloped seedlings in the NBA. It's the equivalent of "selling low." All in all, if Divac doesn't get lucky with the ping pong balls, he's going to have a much more difficult challenge, imo. Other than the ping pong ball gods, the other wildcard is Harry Giles. If Vlade gets unlucky with the ping pong balls and Giles looks like a future All Star, Divac's reputation will have been saved. If not, or if Giles gets injured, the monopoly board just doesn't look very good for Vlade Divac.
But if the Kings get the 7th or 8th pick, it doesn't look good. Vlade then probably drafts a guy who has so-so ability who is either a decent role player or a flat out bust, not exactly what most Kings fans had in mind. That's the situation where the pressure starts to build. Then Vlade has to do something very good in FA, which is highly unlikely, or a trade, which is scary. For the most part, the only players he has to trade are developing young prospects in which there is very little certainty of their ultimate potential. The two "developed" young players that could possibly be traded would be Hield or Bogs. (If he really likes Young in the draft at the 7th or 8th position, he could make a deal at or prior to the draft sending one of the above to a team in a trade to obtain a small forward, power forward, or center). Barring that, he has to trade undeveloped youngins who could either be extremely good, or not, just depending. It's like selling a seedling when you don't know whether it's going to turn into a redwood tree or weed. As a rule of thumb, you don't get top dollar for undeveloped seedlings in the NBA. It's the equivalent of "selling low." All in all, if Divac doesn't get lucky with the ping pong balls, he's going to have a much more difficult challenge, imo. Other than the ping pong ball gods, the other wildcard is Harry Giles. If Vlade gets unlucky with the ping pong balls and Giles looks like a future All Star, Divac's reputation will have been saved. If not, or if Giles gets injured, the monopoly board just doesn't look very good for Vlade Divac.
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Yeah cool, but the post I was responding to wasn't talking about that but was rather focusing on having the Kings tank one quarter in a game in which there were only nine guys suited up for action.
Should also be noted that the Kings lost their first four games after the all-star break, beat the Nets on the back of De'Aaron turning into MJ in the clutch (the only vets that saw time that night were Kosta and GT), losing to the Jazz, and then barely beating a very bad Knicks team because Skal decided it was his turn to hit a game winner. So the Kings could have started the post-All Star Break with a seven game winning streak but didn't sheerly based on our young kids displaying the killing instinct that you'd generally be happy to see your young guys have.
Should also be noted that the Kings lost their first four games after the all-star break, beat the Nets on the back of De'Aaron turning into MJ in the clutch (the only vets that saw time that night were Kosta and GT), losing to the Jazz, and then barely beating a very bad Knicks team because Skal decided it was his turn to hit a game winner. So the Kings could have started the post-All Star Break with a seven game winning streak but didn't sheerly based on our young kids displaying the killing instinct that you'd generally be happy to see your young guys have.
Counterpoint - The notion of "Some of you and the national media are unreasonably negative. Things are much better than they appear and this is going to go great" has been a common refrain here a decade running. And, that argument has consistently looked unreasonable at the time and proved wrong later.
The Kings have operated at the bottom edge of the treadmill of mediocrity for a decade and made poor moves on top of it. There are some prospects here, but not a clear path out of the dumpster.
We don't want a perfect plan, we want modest competence and reasonable plan going forward. 12 years running some of us have wanted that from a franchise that is essntially the 80s Clippers at this point.
The Kings have operated at the bottom edge of the treadmill of mediocrity for a decade and made poor moves on top of it. There are some prospects here, but not a clear path out of the dumpster.
We don't want a perfect plan, we want modest competence and reasonable plan going forward. 12 years running some of us have wanted that from a franchise that is essntially the 80s Clippers at this point.
I also lean towards not deleting posts. But the game thread wasn't locked last night because it had become a model of decorum and civilized discussion. There's a balance to be found, and I personally lean toward letting the balance find itself, but that isn't always the right move.
Heat-of-the-moment frustrations are going to happen, and I try to let them go as long nothing crosses the line. But the sort of thing that I cautioned against here, the "I'm waiting to be proven right and then I'm going to unleash on those who were wrong" just simply isn't healthy for a message board in my opinion. It encourages people to go "tribal" and keep lists...these are the good people...these are the bad people...fight the bad people at all costs... I'm sure you see how that can go really wrong, and how it can cause problems even well before the anticipated comeuppance.
The key, really, is to forget what people's positions are. I'm really good at that (not exactly on purpose, it just happens that way) and that way it's much easier to treat everything that any poster says as just a raw statement rather than viewing it through the lens of friend/enemy. My two cents.
Heat-of-the-moment frustrations are going to happen, and I try to let them go as long nothing crosses the line. But the sort of thing that I cautioned against here, the "I'm waiting to be proven right and then I'm going to unleash on those who were wrong" just simply isn't healthy for a message board in my opinion. It encourages people to go "tribal" and keep lists...these are the good people...these are the bad people...fight the bad people at all costs... I'm sure you see how that can go really wrong, and how it can cause problems even well before the anticipated comeuppance.
The key, really, is to forget what people's positions are. I'm really good at that (not exactly on purpose, it just happens that way) and that way it's much easier to treat everything that any poster says as just a raw statement rather than viewing it through the lens of friend/enemy. My two cents.
I think that if the Kings were serious after the All Star break in the youngins/G League emphasis there is no question they could have at least added one or two in the "L" column. After the break, it seemed like the Kings were "reacting" to what the rest of the tanking contenders were doing, rather than having a proactive plan from the get-go. It was if they collectively said to themselves: "Whoa, these tanking guys are serious; I guess we better get serious too!" By that time it was too late.
Personally, I was never a pro Lin guy all year.
BUT, when your draft position and lottery odds can be improved (or NOT worsened) with one last loss in an meaningless game, your coaching staff and FO should plan accordingly.
Meaning, if you know the other team is going to put out "crap" out on the floor, you plan ahead and rest your starters and play the players you need to "evaluate" to insure the most beneficial outcome, which is a Lin.
My lineup would had been along the line of:
PG: Justin Jackson
SG: Bruno Cabucolo
C: Jack Cooley
SF: Nigel Hayes
PF Jakarr Sampson
BUT, when your draft position and lottery odds can be improved (or NOT worsened) with one last loss in an meaningless game, your coaching staff and FO should plan accordingly.
Meaning, if you know the other team is going to put out "crap" out on the floor, you plan ahead and rest your starters and play the players you need to "evaluate" to insure the most beneficial outcome, which is a Lin.
My lineup would had been along the line of:
PG: Justin Jackson
SG: Bruno Cabucolo
C: Jack Cooley
SF: Nigel Hayes
PF Jakarr Sampson
Why do you keep making the argument that basically Joegers hands were tied and he had no choice but to play all of Bogs Fox Hield WCS against Houston?
Thats simply false.
You seem happy Kings beat Houston. Ok Great. The draft slot movement doesn't matter to you. Fine. But that doesn't allow you to fantasize that Joeger had no choice but to field a winning lineup against tje Rockets or these other teams down the stretch. You agree that Kings should keep Bogs playing 30+ mins and let the chips fall as they may. Thats fine, might be the best thjng to do anyways...but shutting him down has always been an option and would instantly make the Kings less competitive.
A number of easy examples have been given of lineup changes thatbwould have nade it easy to "get a look" at young guys and in different roles and all but guarantee we loose.
Can get through a game with just 5 guys if needed... have 2 guys active if an injury or foul trouble hits.
Fox
Jackson
Nigel
Sampson
Cooley.
Bam, 48 mins apiece. Let Fox and Jackson get as many shots as they can.
Carter can sub in for injury foul trouble etc
Thats simply false.
You seem happy Kings beat Houston. Ok Great. The draft slot movement doesn't matter to you. Fine. But that doesn't allow you to fantasize that Joeger had no choice but to field a winning lineup against tje Rockets or these other teams down the stretch. You agree that Kings should keep Bogs playing 30+ mins and let the chips fall as they may. Thats fine, might be the best thjng to do anyways...but shutting him down has always been an option and would instantly make the Kings less competitive.
A number of easy examples have been given of lineup changes thatbwould have nade it easy to "get a look" at young guys and in different roles and all but guarantee we loose.
Can get through a game with just 5 guys if needed... have 2 guys active if an injury or foul trouble hits.
Fox
Jackson
Nigel
Sampson
Cooley.
Bam, 48 mins apiece. Let Fox and Jackson get as many shots as they can.
Carter can sub in for injury foul trouble etc
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The frustrating thing is the Kings were the first to signal they were going to start tanking by announcing "2 vets will be rested each game" then promptly abandoned that plan and waffled back and forth with tanking while the other tanking teams heard that and committed hard to the tank cause. If we never made that announcement, we very well could be in a top 5 spot right now.
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