Kings waiving papa morphed into Vlade sucks

[whozit]

Did the swap affect whom we drafted? No, it did not. I know a litany of trade hypotheticals surrounding the #3 pick are inbound, though.

Many have forgotten that Vlade’s mission statement when he was hired was to make the first concerted effort to build around Cousins. We made the Sixers trade to facilitate that. We were unable to sign the right kind of talent to make it happen. Part of that was the Kings reputation, but it seemed to be 50/50 with Boogie’s reputation. Players do the recruiting now, and despite his connections to Team USA, Boogie was unable to assist Vlade in recruiting any major talent. We also brought in a coach with the perfect system to max Cousins’ talent, and we still languished. I believe Boogie proved to be a #2 option, at best, on a real playoff team and we decided we could not afford a supermax for that level of player.

We actually got good value for Boogie if one looks at what other stars have gone for recently. Buddy and the #10 pick is a lot better than, say, essentially just the Brooklyn pick for Kyrie.

We should be optimistic about free agency. The NBA landscape is not the same as 30 years ago. We also have the kind of young talent that would be appealing to other teams if one of the big time RFAs wanted to force a sign and trade to the Kings—keep that in mind. Or, we have the space to absorb a big contract if Lebron moves to LA and decides to make some roster adjustments. I will repeat what I have said elsewhere—Lebron is not playing with Lonzo. There is a 0% chance that Lebron will allow himself to be affiliated with the BBB brand in any way whatsoever.

I could be accused of being a Vlade apologist. I can understand the rationale for most of his moves. I will disagree with his handling of the Cousins' trade and wish he hadn't pumped the Papa pick up like he did, it wasn't fair to the kid.

But back to the Philly trade, a true apologist would say we haven't lost anything yet even if they acknowledge the 2019 pick. I understand why he did it but I won't deny he bet the farm that he could do the quick fix and then couldn't. Just because he didn't lose the farm doesn't mean that he and the Kings simply got lucky that it wasn't so, so much worse. If Philly wasn't in the tank and then tank again mode, it probably would have been. But that may have played into Vlade's thought process.

 

[Spike]

Mozart didn't start out making Limp Bizkit tracks in his garage and then stumble across Symphony No. 40 in his late thirties.

 

[KingsFan5]

Welcome. To be fair coming home with Fox, Jackson, Giles and Mason is looking pretty good in its own right at least that's how I see it. Combined with WCS Bogs and Buddy I like what we got brewing. Papa was a bad pick in a bad draft it is what is. As for Skal he was only at Kentucky for a few months that's not where his story is going to be written and it appears he made the cut in year 2.

Fair enough but at this point we cannot say if Vlade should be fire or if Vlade is doing great. There are a TON of question marks on this team. If Giles doesn't ever play, Jackson ends up in the D League, WCS leaves in free agency, and Mason gets cut, then it starts to look pretty bad when you combine in Richardson and Papa. Again, this is worst case but not unrealistic. Outside of Fox and Bogdan (Not a traditional rookie), I have not see anything impressing by the rest of the players.

 

[KingsFan5]

If Vivek is satisfied with Vlade's performance, he won't be going anywhere.

Nobody knows what Vivek is thinking. Would not surprise me at all if he fires both Vlade and Joerger at the end of this season due to the pressure to win - not saying I agree with that.

 

[Section 101]

After listening to Kayte on the the post game last night I think this is basically what happened.

Papa was drafted when we had Cuz. We were playing a slower game. Now that we have Fox we will be playing at a faster pace. The coaching staff doesnt feel Papa will work with a faster pace, ie Fox. So at the time Papa was drafted he was fit. Now with the new direction he doesn't fit. Kings need bigs who can run and move quick.

 

[ockingsfan]

After listening to Kayte on the the post game last night I think this is basically what happened.

Papa was drafted when we had Cuz. We were playing a slower game. Now that we have Fox we will be playing at a faster pace. The coaching staff doesnt feel Papa will work with a faster pace, ie Fox. So at the time Papa was drafted he was fit. Now with the new direction he doesn't fit. Kings need bigs who can run and move quick.

Ummm... that doesn't explain why we still have ZBo (or ZSlow) on the team then.

I think Kayte's reasoning seems more like posturing along the company line to me.

 

[King Baller]

Ummm... that doesn't explain why we still have ZBo (or ZSlow) on the team then.

I think Kayte's reasoning seems more like posturing along the company line to me.

The Great ZBO (seriously) is here for the short term. Like a fire extinguisher. If you need a hoop you break the glass. Papa was a long term project. A short term slow Big Fella who can get a hoop on demand is a good thing for a developing team. No need to have a long term project with a small fleet of long fast athletes. Even Kosta is a better athlete than many give him credit for.

I think the slam at Kayte's ethics is uncalled for.

 

[Section 101]

Ummm... that doesn't explain why we still have ZBo (or ZSlow) on the team then.

I think Kayte's reasoning seems more like posturing along the company line to me.

There's a big difference between cutting a player making 2 mil and 12 mil next year. Maybe Zbo gets bought out next year after the summer.

 

[ockingsfan]

The Great ZBO (seriously) is here for the short term. Like a fire extinguisher. If you need a hoop you break the glass. Papa was a long term project. A short term slow Big Fella who can get a hoop on demand is a good thing for a developing team. No need to have a long term project with a small fleet of long fast athletes. Even Kosta is a better athlete than many give him credit for.

I think the slam at Kayte's ethics is uncalled for.

This is my whole issue. Papa was always a long term project. Minimum of 3-4 years before we started seeing any return on our investment. Vlade knew this when he drafted him or at least he should have.

So, we keep VC and ZBo who were always short term answers instead of keeping the player that was still an unknown commodity, even though we are in a rebuild.

Sorry, but the "needing all the bigs to be able to be fast and run with Fox" doesn't explain why we are still featuring ZSlow in the starting lineup with Fox.

If that were the case, ZBo should be firmly planted on the bench.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I saw something interesting on reddit that was a Greek article, the gist was that Vlade and Peja believe in the kid but Joerger wants him gone and so releasing him was a favor to a kid that thinks he can play (this can operate in a world where everybody is right but that kid is f'ing delusional). That jives with other information that he was disrespectful to the coach. This also jives with what those who are placing faith in our "mini process" and believe coach and GM are acting in synergy say.

I will just quote the post:

I just saw an article in greek and it had some inside info that i think that you would like to know.1)Papagiannis was expecting to get traded to Cleveland. Last minute the trade fell of because cleveland did not want his contract.

2)Peja and Divac still think that papagiannis can become a good player. Joerger disagrees tho.

3)Joerger thought papagiannis should be in reno getting minutes.Papagiannis thought that it would be better for him to train vs Koufos,Wcs,Randolph etc and he was vocal about it.

4)Papagiannis thought that playing in reno was a waste of time. He was sad when he learned he was not traded to cavs.

5)Reporter described Sacramento's move to waive Papagiannis a gift to the greek center from Divac and Peja.There was not a place for him under Joerger. Now he still gets the money and he will find another team in nba that wants to give him a chance.There are 3 teams willing to sign him.

source:http://nba.sport24.gr/article/5071582/giwrgo-ksupna

edit:6) European powerhouce CSKA contracted him. They think that he would be their center for the next 20 years.Long term signing tho tbh.

IDK , i think you guys would find it interesting

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Exhibit A) Is looking like a bullet dodged right about now. Think of what our future would look like with DMC on year 1 of his super MAX and that achilles.

But you can't at all assume that Cuz still gets that injury playing in SAC. That's the randomness of it all.

 

[itzcoatl]

But you can't at all assume that Cuz still gets that injury playing in SAC. That's the randomness of it all.

I am not a doctor, and you may be right, but I have to imagine that achilles has been going downhill for several years since it was a non-contact injury. Meaning, it was probably bound to happen eventually.

 

[Suicide King]

View attachment 7292

Thank you for the laugh, I needed one.

 

[Section 101]

But you can't at all assume that Cuz still gets that injury playing in SAC. That's the randomness of it all.

In fact, it maybe because of his increased minutes playing for the Pels. The Kings always tried to limit his mins to reduce the potential for injury. Especially when he was already having foot issue the past few years.

 

[upinsmoke]

But you can't at all assume that Cuz still gets that injury playing in SAC. That's the randomness of it all.

That's life for you.

 

[AleksandarN]

This is my whole issue. Papa was always a long term project. Minimum of 3-4 years before we started seeing any return on our investment. Vlade knew this when he drafted him or at least he should have.

So, we keep VC and ZBo who were always short term answers instead of keeping the player that was still an unknown commodity, even though we are in a rebuild.

Sorry, but the "needing all the bigs to be able to be fast and run with Fox" doesn't explain why we are still featuring ZSlow in the starting lineup with Fox.

If that were the case, ZBo should be firmly planted on the bench.

I think it has to do with the coach. Jeoger was the one that wanted zbo.

 

[hrdboild]

View attachment 7292

 

[VF21]

Nobody knows what Vivek is thinking. Would not surprise me at all if he fires both Vlade and Joerger at the end of this season due to the pressure to win - not saying I agree with that.

At some point, people simply have to quit trying to play the Vivek card. He has been on his best behavior for quite a while. He is not a stupid man. He is not going to fire either Vlade or Joerger at the end of this season. The pressure to win? WHAT pressure to win? Anyone with an ounce of sense should realize we're rebuilding and it's gonna take more than a season or two to do a real honest rebuild process.

When a team isn't winning, the temptation is to blame the coach or the GM. Well, if you look around, a lot of people DON'T want to the Kings to be winning right now. In fact, there are several threads devoted to exactly that.

This just gets to be exhausting. We aren't going to win right now, we probably won't win that much next year either. If you're going to survive as a Kings fan, you have to look at the long game...we finally emptied the barrel, scraped it out and are just starting to refill it. The wine is not going to be ready for consumption for a while.

 

[VF21]

But you can't at all assume that Cuz still gets that injury playing in SAC. That's the randomness of it all.

Sure we can. It fits right into the black cloud/Indian burial ground line of reasoning.

 

[VF21]

I saw something interesting on reddit that was a Greek article, the gist was that Vlade and Peja believe in the kid but Joerger wants him gone and so releasing him was a favor to a kid that thinks he can play (this can operate in a world where everybody is right but that kid is f'ing delusional). That jives with other information that he was disrespectful to the coach. This also jives with what those who are placing faith in our "mini process" and believe coach and GM are acting in synergy say.

I will just quote the post:

I'll just play devil's advocate for a bit and remind folks that a lot of those articles from the player home countries are full of unsubstantiated rationale, especially when a player is traded, waived, etc. And even more so, when said player has shown so little. Bragging about double-doubles in the G League? Bah humbug. If he's that good, he should have been putting up 30/20 there and I sure didn't see that. Jack Cooley consistently puts up better numbers with the Bighorns than Papa did.

 

[VF21]

This is my whole issue. Papa was always a long term project. Minimum of 3-4 years before we started seeing any return on our investment. Vlade knew this when he drafted him or at least he should have.

So, we keep VC and ZBo who were always short term answers instead of keeping the player that was still an unknown commodity, even though we are in a rebuild.

Sorry, but the "needing all the bigs to be able to be fast and run with Fox" doesn't explain why we are still featuring ZSlow in the starting lineup with Fox.

If that were the case, ZBo should be firmly planted on the bench.

Skal isn't available.

 

[VF21]

Ummm... that doesn't explain why we still have ZBo (or ZSlow) on the team then.

I think Kayte's reasoning seems more like posturing along the company line to me.

Okay, that's not fair. Kayte tells it like it is. I think it's wrong to assume she's "posturing along the company line."

 

[mac]

If we're discussing the topic of Vlade's ability, let's hold him to what he himself has committed to. If this time next year we don't look like an up and coming team with at least some playoff hopes then he has failed by his own standards.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I'll just play devil's advocate for a bit and remind folks that a lot of those articles from the player home countries are full of unsubstantiated rationale, especially when a player is traded, waived, etc. And even more so, when said player has shown so little. Bragging about double-doubles in the G League? Bah humbug. If he's that good, he should have been putting up 30/20 there and I sure didn't see that. Jack Cooley consistently puts up better numbers with the Bighorns than Papa did.

Without a doubt this article paints it in a Papa light (from that angle - no I don't think there are 3 NBA teams that want him, nor the top 3 teams in Europe) but I do think the rest seems reasonable, which is to say Joerger saw nothing for him ever, so there was no sense blowing a roster spot on him for another 2 seasons.

 

[ockingsfan]

Skal isn't available.

ZBo has been starting since day 1 this season (except for a handful of games), I don't think that has changed, regardless of who is available or not.

 

[VF21]

ZBo has been starting since day 1 this season (except for a handful of games), I don't think that has changed, regardless of who is available or not.

I think if Skal was available, he would be garnering more time. We'll have to see what happens I suppose.

 

[VF21]

...I think Kayte's reasoning seems more like posturing along the company line to me.

[B]Kayte Christensen[/B]‏Verified account @[B]kayte_c[/B] 10h10 hours ago

I can either be someone else’s mouth piece or be my own. If speaking my opinion gets me in trouble so be it. At least it’s my own and no one else’s

 

[206Fan]

I saw something interesting on reddit that was a Greek article, the gist was that Vlade and Peja believe in the kid but Joerger wants him gone and so releasing him was a favor to a kid that thinks he can play (this can operate in a world where everybody is right but that kid is f'ing delusional). That jives with other information that he was disrespectful to the coach. This also jives with what those who are placing faith in our "mini process" and believe coach and GM are acting in synergy say.

I will just quote the post:

I forgot to hit enter on the post below earlier today, but my theory is confirmed by that report.

There was no way Cuz-PapaG backcourt could've ever worked though. That was my problem with the draft pick in the first place. Mind you, during this time the Kings were trying to compete for the playoffs still. So why did we draft Papa? Only 2 logical options.. 1) Drafted him to be Cousins' backup. 2) Drafted him to replace Cousins down the line. Either option seems bad. Papagiannis is just a bad basketball player. He's slow and unathletic. I would say that Kosta is 4-5x the athlete Papa is. He has very limited basketball skills.

Remember, we just picked up PapaG's option 3 months ago for next year..and now we're suddenly cutting him? Here's my theory of what went down. Vlade trusted his Euro connections too much who pumped up a random 7ft Euro big. Vlade might have some bias when it comes to Euros. He really saw PapaG as a future good NBA player. 1 year into it, PapaG looks nothing like an NBA player. His staff and coaches have probably been trying to tell Vade that PapaG isn't fit for the NBA. Slow, unathletic, and has no skills. Year 2, Vlade understands the concerns, but still sees potential in Papa. As time progresses on, the coaches tell Vlade that PapaG just can't cut it. Vlade ignores and he decides to pick up PapaG's contract. 1/2 way through the season, and we see very little to 0 progression from Papagiannis in the GLeague. Vlade is clear that things will not work with him. Remember, Joerger made a comment regarding Jakarr Sampson in frustration. He said something along the lines of: well, we can't give a lot of PT to this 2-way player because we have other guys who are here long-term. So we need to develop them.

Vlade starts see where Joerger and the coaches coming from, but still sees value in PapaG. However, he decides to trade him off the team. He puts him on the tradeblock expecting interests in this raw young C who he values... but as it turns out, nobody wants him..at ALL. Vlade realizes that the coaches were right. PapaG just isn't a NBA player. After we got 0 offers for Papa, he decided to just cut him to free room for the George Hill trade.

I'm glad we cut Papa. He seems like a diva all-around. With Cousins, we could tolerate it because he's a top 20 player in the NBA. Papa on other hand? get over yourself. you couldnt even get PT on one of the worst teams in the NBA. I do wish him the best of luck in his basketball career. Even if he doesn't get another NBA contract, he's made plenty of money on the Kings already.

 

[KingsFan5]

At some point, people simply have to quit trying to play the Vivek card. He has been on his best behavior for quite a while. He is not a stupid man. He is not going to fire either Vlade or Joerger at the end of this season. The pressure to win? WHAT pressure to win? Anyone with an ounce of sense should realize we're rebuilding and it's gonna take more than a season or two to do a real honest rebuild process.

When a team isn't winning, the temptation is to blame the coach or the GM. Well, if you look around, a lot of people DON'T want to the Kings to be winning right now. In fact, there are several threads devoted to exactly that.

This just gets to be exhausting. We aren't going to win right now, we probably won't win that much next year either. If you're going to survive as a Kings fan, you have to look at the long game...we finally emptied the barrel, scraped it out and are just starting to refill it. The wine is not going to be ready for consumption for a while.

Again, I don't agree with firing Joerger. I think he is an excellent coach, Vlade on the other hand I would be happy to see him reassigned to another job. But yes there is pressure to win right now. Maybe not on a message board but I can promise you a lot of the people who write checks for very expensive tickets in Golden 1 are not happy right now and been voicing this opinion to Vivek directly. Money talks and Vivek likes money, that was my point.

 

[KingsFan5]

I forgot to hit enter on the post below earlier today, but my theory is confirmed by that report.

There was no way Cuz-PapaG backcourt could've ever worked though. That was my problem with the draft pick in the first place. Mind you, during this time the Kings were trying to compete for the playoffs still. So why did we draft Papa? Only 2 logical options.. 1) Drafted him to be Cousins' backup. 2) Drafted him to replace Cousins down the line. Either option seems bad. Papagiannis is just a bad basketball player. He's slow and unathletic. I would say that Kosta is 4-5x the athlete Papa is. He has very limited basketball skills.

Remember, we just picked up PapaG's option 3 months ago for next year..and now we're suddenly cutting him? Here's my theory of what went down. Vlade trusted his Euro connections too much who pumped up a random 7ft Euro big. Vlade might have some bias when it comes to Euros. He really saw PapaG as a future good NBA player. 1 year into it, PapaG looks nothing like an NBA player. His staff and coaches have probably been trying to tell Vade that PapaG isn't fit for the NBA. Slow, unathletic, and has no skills. Year 2, Vlade understands the concerns, but still sees potential in Papa. As time progresses on, the coaches tell Vlade that PapaG just can't cut it. Vlade ignores and he decides to pick up PapaG's contract. 1/2 way through the season, and we see very little to 0 progression from Papagiannis in the GLeague. Vlade is clear that things will not work with him. Remember, Joerger made a comment regarding Jakarr Sampson in frustration. He said something along the lines of: well, we can't give a lot of PT to this 2-way player because we have other guys who are here long-term. So we need to develop them.

Vlade starts see where Joerger and the coaches coming from, but still sees value in PapaG. However, he decides to trade him off the team. He puts him on the tradeblock expecting interests in this raw young C who he values... but as it turns out, nobody wants him..at ALL. Vlade realizes that the coaches were right. PapaG just isn't a NBA player. After we got 0 offers for Papa, he decided to just cut him to free room for the George Hill trade.

I'm glad we cut Papa. He seems like a diva all-around. With Cousins, we could tolerate it because he's a top 20 player in the NBA. Papa on other hand? get over yourself. you couldnt even get PT on one of the worst teams in the NBA. I do wish him the best of luck in his basketball career. Even if he doesn't get another NBA contract, he's made plenty of money on the Kings already.

Vlade drafted Papa cause he planned on trading Cousins and was hoping Papa could be the future IMHO