Rebuild Strategy (or WE WANT LINS!)
- Thread starter dude12
- Start date
I kinda assume the first post might be tongue in cheek. You are sincerely proposing that a team that's been in REBUILD MODE FOR 10 MONTHS and lacks at least 3 credible starters, pool its assets to trade for Gasol and try to "win now"?
Still not sure you aren't being sarcastic based upon the last comment.
Still not sure you aren't being sarcastic based upon the last comment.
Okay well I was responding to you’re we sit in 6th comment. That means you will most likely be picking 7th post lottery.
I have seen projections as high as 2nd but since those can’t anticipate how a team will or won’t tank I tend to disregard them on the low end. Make more sense at the top where tanking doesn’t apply.
I have seen projections as high as 2nd but since those can’t anticipate how a team will or won’t tank I tend to disregard them on the low end. Make more sense at the top where tanking doesn’t apply.
Of course, with the Kings expectedly being one of the worst teams in the league, everyone rightfully talks about next years draft. However we should not forget that the Kings can also use trades to rebuild.
One trade I always come back to is trying to nab Jabari Parker. As most us are aware, he is currently recovering from his second ACL, but based on reports he seems to be able to return around all star break. The injury is of course a big risk factor, especially because he is going to hit RFA in the summer. However, that is probably the only reason why a player of his talent could be available.
Why would the Bucks trade Parker? The Bucks already have an enormous payroll. Hence, signing Parker to a large contract is risky, especially since no one knows how he looks when he comes back. If you look at Bucks fans forums, some are already paniking about big offer sheets in July and thus are working on Jabari trades. Some other fans are hell-bent on keeping him. But I guess thats the same discussion going on in the Bucks front office. Interestingly, the Bucks seem to be looking for Centers. Well guess which team has a lot of those!
Why would the Kings trade for Parker? The Kings need talent, plain and simple. The Kings dont have their 2019 pick and thus have to look for additional ways of adding talent. Parker is a rare opportunity to gamble one such a player. The Kings also have no long term contracts so paying Parker is not as severe. Also, Kings can afford to bring him back slowly. If the Kings find a way to nab him, they are looking at a core of Parker, Fox and a top pick in 2018 plus prospects Buddy, Skal and Giles. Suddenly the rebuild looks way more promising.
Some trades that seem realistic:
Trade option 1: Willie Cauley-Stein for Jabari Parker straight up.
Simple but effective trade to set the stage. Parker is the better talent but the injury and contract status brings his value down. Willie brings great length and athleticism to Milwaukees center position. Coming of his best stretch of games, the Bucks might be interested. However, I could see the Bucks being hesistant because they still pay Henson and could use a bruiser down low as well.
Trade option 2: Willie Cauley Stein, Zach Randolph for Jabari Parker and John Henson.
Same idea, but Bucks get Willie and a bruiser in Zbo to play of the bench. Kings get off of Zbos 14 mil for next, but take on Hensons 10 mil in 2018 and 9 mil in 2019. I like that trade for both teams. However I am not sure Kings are ready to deal Zbo yet.
Trade option 3: Willie Cauley, Kosta Koufos and one of Vince Carter/Garret Temple for Jabari Parker and John Henson.
Same idea as before, but this time, Bucks a get defensive bruiser in Koufos.
Honestly, I like all three variations from the Kings perspective. There are lots of other deals possible as well, for example including Richardson. In the end, I guess, it would come down on Parkers health and the Bucks willingness to move him.
One trade I always come back to is trying to nab Jabari Parker. As most us are aware, he is currently recovering from his second ACL, but based on reports he seems to be able to return around all star break. The injury is of course a big risk factor, especially because he is going to hit RFA in the summer. However, that is probably the only reason why a player of his talent could be available.
Why would the Bucks trade Parker? The Bucks already have an enormous payroll. Hence, signing Parker to a large contract is risky, especially since no one knows how he looks when he comes back. If you look at Bucks fans forums, some are already paniking about big offer sheets in July and thus are working on Jabari trades. Some other fans are hell-bent on keeping him. But I guess thats the same discussion going on in the Bucks front office. Interestingly, the Bucks seem to be looking for Centers. Well guess which team has a lot of those!
Why would the Kings trade for Parker? The Kings need talent, plain and simple. The Kings dont have their 2019 pick and thus have to look for additional ways of adding talent. Parker is a rare opportunity to gamble one such a player. The Kings also have no long term contracts so paying Parker is not as severe. Also, Kings can afford to bring him back slowly. If the Kings find a way to nab him, they are looking at a core of Parker, Fox and a top pick in 2018 plus prospects Buddy, Skal and Giles. Suddenly the rebuild looks way more promising.
Some trades that seem realistic:
Trade option 1: Willie Cauley-Stein for Jabari Parker straight up.
Simple but effective trade to set the stage. Parker is the better talent but the injury and contract status brings his value down. Willie brings great length and athleticism to Milwaukees center position. Coming of his best stretch of games, the Bucks might be interested. However, I could see the Bucks being hesistant because they still pay Henson and could use a bruiser down low as well.
Trade option 2: Willie Cauley Stein, Zach Randolph for Jabari Parker and John Henson.
Same idea, but Bucks get Willie and a bruiser in Zbo to play of the bench. Kings get off of Zbos 14 mil for next, but take on Hensons 10 mil in 2018 and 9 mil in 2019. I like that trade for both teams. However I am not sure Kings are ready to deal Zbo yet.
Trade option 3: Willie Cauley, Kosta Koufos and one of Vince Carter/Garret Temple for Jabari Parker and John Henson.
Same idea as before, but this time, Bucks a get defensive bruiser in Koufos.
Honestly, I like all three variations from the Kings perspective. There are lots of other deals possible as well, for example including Richardson. In the end, I guess, it would come down on Parkers health and the Bucks willingness to move him.
Some arguments that have been bugging me have been when people say that Joerger is playing the young guys equal minutes to the vets, that you can find a star even if you don't draft in the top 3 and that it's early and to be patient.
Joerger is playing a very equal minutes spread for these guys but that doesn't tell the whole story. ZBo leads the team is usage % while Fox is 5th. Mitchell and DSJ lead their teams. Basically they are getting what they need to develop while Fox is being treated like just another player. Fox might be out there for 25 minutes but how many of those minutes is he really involved with the offense and how many minutes are of him just giving the ball to ZBo in the high post and letting ZBo iso his way to a bucket? Fox could be playing 40min a game but would it really matter if all he's being used as it a feeder for a 36 year old and to stand in the corner and wait? The franchise's #1 investment is being treated like he's no better than a guy like Pooh Jeter. I'm all for Joerger having these guys earn their minutes but shouldn't Joerger be making him earn it while making it as easy for him at the same time? Nothing should be free but game plan for the kid and make the game a little easier for him, please. At the very least, let him play to his strengths and don't just yell at him to "run" when running isn't going to accomplish jack crap anyway since all of the defenders are already back in position. Minutes do not tell the whole story here.
Winning games against the Suns on the backs of ZBo and Hill is so pointless that I cannot even fathom what they are thinking when doing this. If we beat the Suns because Fox and co. tear it up, then that's perfectly fine. But don't go out there and let your non future stars push you down in the draft order. These young guys aren't going to be career losers by losing a bunch of games their first year. The vets should solely be used to keep them from losing by 20 every game but they shouldn't be used to eek out wins against bottom dweller teams. I just can't stand the "you can find a star in the draft at any position" argument because it's a statistical proven fact that the higher you draft, the higher your chances are of landing an all star. Would you rather play the lottery with 1 ticket or 1000 tickets? You can still win with 1 ticket but why would you choose the lower odds? That's what the Kings are doing by allowing ZBo to dominate every game.
People keep saying it's too early and that we need to be patient. That's absolutely true but what I'm seeing is a complete waste of time for many of these guys from a developmental standpoint. Time is of the essence so why have the first few months been wasted by featuring ZBo all game long? I like Temple, but why the heck is this guy out there playing more than Hield? We're 28 games into the season and our #1 rookie is being used like he's just some scrub off the street. I don't buy Joerger's explanation that the kids don't understand NBA offenses so this is just what they have to run right now. That's complete BS to me. I'm not expecting these guys to be world beaters but FEATURE them in the offense and use ZBo as the emergency go to plan with the clock winding down. Don't hamper the development of an entire roster full of young guys because you feel the need to make your veterans happy because those veterans aren't your investment. The young guys are Joerger's investment and his coaching career hinges on those guys developing. Better start doing it now while losses are expected because in a couple years it's going to be a different story. These guys simply cannot develop their offensive games correctly with the way Joerger is coaching them. I can almost guarantee you that we won't see any development from Fox at all if this is the offense we run all year.
Joerger is playing a very equal minutes spread for these guys but that doesn't tell the whole story. ZBo leads the team is usage % while Fox is 5th. Mitchell and DSJ lead their teams. Basically they are getting what they need to develop while Fox is being treated like just another player. Fox might be out there for 25 minutes but how many of those minutes is he really involved with the offense and how many minutes are of him just giving the ball to ZBo in the high post and letting ZBo iso his way to a bucket? Fox could be playing 40min a game but would it really matter if all he's being used as it a feeder for a 36 year old and to stand in the corner and wait? The franchise's #1 investment is being treated like he's no better than a guy like Pooh Jeter. I'm all for Joerger having these guys earn their minutes but shouldn't Joerger be making him earn it while making it as easy for him at the same time? Nothing should be free but game plan for the kid and make the game a little easier for him, please. At the very least, let him play to his strengths and don't just yell at him to "run" when running isn't going to accomplish jack crap anyway since all of the defenders are already back in position. Minutes do not tell the whole story here.
Winning games against the Suns on the backs of ZBo and Hill is so pointless that I cannot even fathom what they are thinking when doing this. If we beat the Suns because Fox and co. tear it up, then that's perfectly fine. But don't go out there and let your non future stars push you down in the draft order. These young guys aren't going to be career losers by losing a bunch of games their first year. The vets should solely be used to keep them from losing by 20 every game but they shouldn't be used to eek out wins against bottom dweller teams. I just can't stand the "you can find a star in the draft at any position" argument because it's a statistical proven fact that the higher you draft, the higher your chances are of landing an all star. Would you rather play the lottery with 1 ticket or 1000 tickets? You can still win with 1 ticket but why would you choose the lower odds? That's what the Kings are doing by allowing ZBo to dominate every game.
People keep saying it's too early and that we need to be patient. That's absolutely true but what I'm seeing is a complete waste of time for many of these guys from a developmental standpoint. Time is of the essence so why have the first few months been wasted by featuring ZBo all game long? I like Temple, but why the heck is this guy out there playing more than Hield? We're 28 games into the season and our #1 rookie is being used like he's just some scrub off the street. I don't buy Joerger's explanation that the kids don't understand NBA offenses so this is just what they have to run right now. That's complete BS to me. I'm not expecting these guys to be world beaters but FEATURE them in the offense and use ZBo as the emergency go to plan with the clock winding down. Don't hamper the development of an entire roster full of young guys because you feel the need to make your veterans happy because those veterans aren't your investment. The young guys are Joerger's investment and his coaching career hinges on those guys developing. Better start doing it now while losses are expected because in a couple years it's going to be a different story. These guys simply cannot develop their offensive games correctly with the way Joerger is coaching them. I can almost guarantee you that we won't see any development from Fox at all if this is the offense we run all year.
Well, I would not tell the Bucks GM, but I think I am at a point where I would deal any resonable combination of players (everyone else than Fox/Skal/Giles) for Parker. So yes, I guess Wcs + Bogdan would be fine, especially if that means not taking on Henson.
What if the Bucks asks for Hield instead of Bogdan though? Would you still do it?
What if the Bucks asks for Hield instead of Bogdan though? Would you still do it?
Of those you mentioned Embiid is a sure franchise level guy. Simmons has shown enough to suggest he is also a rather special talent and can be a franchise players. Both are injury prone so things could go off the rails rather quickly but I would rather have then than not.
The rest I don’t think hav shown that ability. A franchise level player is a guy that makes the whole defense focus on stopping them. Someone who makes life easier for others. Someone who makes others better and ideally plays both ends of the court. A player you just don’t want to trade. There are not many out there.
Booker, as good as he is, I don’t hink he is one. You cannot build a championship winner around him. All star? Sure! Franchise player? Don’t think so.
By your criteria, Dame Lillard is a franchise player. IMHO, he is not. Sure he can lead you to the play off as a nice solid middle ranked team but he he is not the man on a title winner. Carmelo in his prime fits that description as well but I never rated him a franchise level player despite being a perennial all-star and a genuinely dynamite scorer. You seem to be handing out the label far too loosely IMHO,
The rest I don’t think hav shown that ability. A franchise level player is a guy that makes the whole defense focus on stopping them. Someone who makes life easier for others. Someone who makes others better and ideally plays both ends of the court. A player you just don’t want to trade. There are not many out there.
Booker, as good as he is, I don’t hink he is one. You cannot build a championship winner around him. All star? Sure! Franchise player? Don’t think so.
By your criteria, Dame Lillard is a franchise player. IMHO, he is not. Sure he can lead you to the play off as a nice solid middle ranked team but he he is not the man on a title winner. Carmelo in his prime fits that description as well but I never rated him a franchise level player despite being a perennial all-star and a genuinely dynamite scorer. You seem to be handing out the label far too loosely IMHO,
That Jabari Parker idea isn't half bad, especially if it involves WCS and Bogs. I would do that in a heartbeat. But you can imagine that the Bucks MAY get a better offer for Parker than two average role players.
I am well aware of Parker's injury and history but gambling on a potential franchise player for two role players is a no brainier IMO. And the only way that the Kings could acquire any potential franchise player is through a trade or the draft-and let's face it! This team has been abyssal with their draft classes. I would do this trade because WCS isn't anything special, yet, he's going to command a hefty contract in two years time. Yes-at times, he's a very good player, but he's inconsistent. Bogs, on the other hand, has a chance to become a top-of-the-line role player, but he's average, at best right now. And If Buddy can hold down the SG spot and Parker can hold down the SF spot, that's a good place to start a rebuilding process. And if they can get Porter in the draft, then this team will look like they have massive POTENTIAL to become serious contenders in three years. I still think Fox will turn it around and they can acquire another center via trade.
But let's be more realistic and say that the Kings pick #6 or lower and Porter is out of the question. Then the Kings should think about trading back and acquiring future picks. (I wanted the kings to use this tactic with their 20th pick. (Example: See Phili's trade for the 25th pick)) I feel like the Kings missed a golden opportunity to trade their 20th pick for future assets. There were teams that wanted to trade up, but what did Vlade do? He picked an injured center.
The Kings should put themselves in a position to collect assets, as many assets as possible. This includes trading away Temple, Hill, Z-Bo, Carter, etc... for second round picks. They also should invest in buying second round picks. There's some absolute gems to be had in the second round. These players are typically older and overlooked. But I cannot remember the last time the Kings purchased a second round pick. Lastly, they should absorb bad contracts. (Demarre Carroll comes to mind) I feel like next offseason, the kings have a great chance to collect draft picks for the future. My main target would be Ryan Anderson. Chris Paul will sign the max in Houston, and when he does, that means that Houston will be pressed against the cap. Then they have a semi-difficult choice to make: trade anderson and re-sign Capela to a "rookie max" or do they let Capela go and keep anderson? If I am Houston, I am DEFINITELY going with the first route. Capela compliments Houston SO WELL, and while Anderson is a nice role player, having a maxed out Capela and having Anderson's contract will put that team in the luxury tax hell for two years...and we all know that owners hate that. What's the proposal? Trade Anderson to the Kings for a 2019 and 2021 first round draft choices. I know that the 2019 1st round pick will be in the twenties, but maybe by time 2021 roles around, maybe that pick will be around the teens. (it's somewhat possible with an aging chris paul and james harden) And if Houston will not trade away Anderson's bad contract, I would say the Kings should make a run at Capela. At the very least, drive up the price so Houston will have to match and be in luxury tax hell, or maybe, just maybe, they let him go for next-to-nothing.
The Kings have a lot of options; moreso than in the past. They have a lot of cap room and a lot of young players. However, I don't believe in Vlade and Vikek and I don't think they have any foresight to improve this team in other ways. They'll have another season like this: they will tank towards the end of the season, sign some over-the-hill-vets, massively reach for a rookie with their first pick, fails to collect future picks(assets), and watch other teams get better. Unfortunately, it's the Kings' way.
I am well aware of Parker's injury and history but gambling on a potential franchise player for two role players is a no brainier IMO. And the only way that the Kings could acquire any potential franchise player is through a trade or the draft-and let's face it! This team has been abyssal with their draft classes. I would do this trade because WCS isn't anything special, yet, he's going to command a hefty contract in two years time. Yes-at times, he's a very good player, but he's inconsistent. Bogs, on the other hand, has a chance to become a top-of-the-line role player, but he's average, at best right now. And If Buddy can hold down the SG spot and Parker can hold down the SF spot, that's a good place to start a rebuilding process. And if they can get Porter in the draft, then this team will look like they have massive POTENTIAL to become serious contenders in three years. I still think Fox will turn it around and they can acquire another center via trade.
But let's be more realistic and say that the Kings pick #6 or lower and Porter is out of the question. Then the Kings should think about trading back and acquiring future picks. (I wanted the kings to use this tactic with their 20th pick. (Example: See Phili's trade for the 25th pick)) I feel like the Kings missed a golden opportunity to trade their 20th pick for future assets. There were teams that wanted to trade up, but what did Vlade do? He picked an injured center.
The Kings should put themselves in a position to collect assets, as many assets as possible. This includes trading away Temple, Hill, Z-Bo, Carter, etc... for second round picks. They also should invest in buying second round picks. There's some absolute gems to be had in the second round. These players are typically older and overlooked. But I cannot remember the last time the Kings purchased a second round pick. Lastly, they should absorb bad contracts. (Demarre Carroll comes to mind) I feel like next offseason, the kings have a great chance to collect draft picks for the future. My main target would be Ryan Anderson. Chris Paul will sign the max in Houston, and when he does, that means that Houston will be pressed against the cap. Then they have a semi-difficult choice to make: trade anderson and re-sign Capela to a "rookie max" or do they let Capela go and keep anderson? If I am Houston, I am DEFINITELY going with the first route. Capela compliments Houston SO WELL, and while Anderson is a nice role player, having a maxed out Capela and having Anderson's contract will put that team in the luxury tax hell for two years...and we all know that owners hate that. What's the proposal? Trade Anderson to the Kings for a 2019 and 2021 first round draft choices. I know that the 2019 1st round pick will be in the twenties, but maybe by time 2021 roles around, maybe that pick will be around the teens. (it's somewhat possible with an aging chris paul and james harden) And if Houston will not trade away Anderson's bad contract, I would say the Kings should make a run at Capela. At the very least, drive up the price so Houston will have to match and be in luxury tax hell, or maybe, just maybe, they let him go for next-to-nothing.
The Kings have a lot of options; moreso than in the past. They have a lot of cap room and a lot of young players. However, I don't believe in Vlade and Vikek and I don't think they have any foresight to improve this team in other ways. They'll have another season like this: they will tank towards the end of the season, sign some over-the-hill-vets, massively reach for a rookie with their first pick, fails to collect future picks(assets), and watch other teams get better. Unfortunately, it's the Kings' way.
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I would not mind the Parker deal aside from Fox/Giles (who I have not seen yet) I don't think anyone else on the roster has anything above average starter potential I would try to trade Hield for Kelly Obrue Jr and I'd also have a look at RaShaun Holmes who has again fallen back in the 76ers rotation with T.Booker there he is a beast every-time he gets on the floor.
If we get get a couple of athletic wings (Parker/Obrue Jr) and some tough athletic PF/C in Holmes/Green to compliment Fox that would be fun to watch. We had the chance this off-season to sign Simmons/Green which would have probably given us potentially the most athletic starting 5 in the NBA and something exciting to watch with WCS/Green/Simmons/Fox/whoever at SG.
If we get get a couple of athletic wings (Parker/Obrue Jr) and some tough athletic PF/C in Holmes/Green to compliment Fox that would be fun to watch. We had the chance this off-season to sign Simmons/Green which would have probably given us potentially the most athletic starting 5 in the NBA and something exciting to watch with WCS/Green/Simmons/Fox/whoever at SG.
I’m not really interested in Parker. We already have a Parker on the roster. Super-skilled PF with multiple knee injuries...that’s Harry Giles. No reason to trade for that same player, only we have to max the new guy right away. Especially not for WCS and the New Manu. And, I’m a Giles believer. He’s just so skilled that even if he never gets back the same bounce he had, he will still be a highly effective player.
I’m pretty keen on Gasol at the deadline for a few reasons. First and foremost, he steps right into our offense and runs it. We would probably still have one of Skal/WCS post-trade, and Marc will make things so easy for the remaining young big. Either one would develop rapidly with Marc. Gasol also has a player option for 19-20, meaning our massive cap space in summer 19 is preserved, and we can still go shopping. I think we have the young talent Memphis would be looking for in return. It’s just a matter of whether or not another team tops our offer, and where Gasol wants to go.
I’m pretty keen on Gasol at the deadline for a few reasons. First and foremost, he steps right into our offense and runs it. We would probably still have one of Skal/WCS post-trade, and Marc will make things so easy for the remaining young big. Either one would develop rapidly with Marc. Gasol also has a player option for 19-20, meaning our massive cap space in summer 19 is preserved, and we can still go shopping. I think we have the young talent Memphis would be looking for in return. It’s just a matter of whether or not another team tops our offer, and where Gasol wants to go.
Gasol is going to make the Kings a playoff team?No trade Clauses are BS. If he doesn't want to be in Sac. He won't. Whether there is a clause or not. Players run this league. Teams will offer a lot more than the Kings have for Gasol. Memphis is rebuilding if they unload Gasol. Gasol deserves to go to a contender, Not wallow away in the bottom of the Pacific. Kings are not trading their core young pieces: Fox, Mason, Hield, Bogdan Giles, Skal. So What does that leave in a trade conversation? Does anyone actually think Memphis is going to take any combination of Temple, Koufas, Hill, Malachi, JJ, WCS. Ain't Happening.
Parker can score we needs players that can score and he’s still young and can play SF/PF. No matter who we draft we should target him in free agency. even if we get Porter Jr having a front court of Porter/Jabari/WCS is the way the league is trending. You get as menu 6’7 6’8 guys as you can just look at Boston taking Tatum and Brown. He put up 20-6-3 in 51 games last year we have to gamble on that. A home run off season for us would be Doncic and Parker
Fox's usage rate is higher than Mike Conley as a rookie and 1% lower than John Wall as a rookie and it could go up as the season progresses or if Hill is traded. I cite them because I see them as the most similar players to Fox in terms of style and skill set.
Those guys didn't have as much young competition on their rosters for shots or minutes as Fox does either. The balancing act that Coach Joerger is trying to manage is unprecedented.
Those guys didn't have as much young competition on their rosters for shots or minutes as Fox does either. The balancing act that Coach Joerger is trying to manage is unprecedented.
Fans overrate WCS and Bogdan imo. Neither are that good, yet I already see people calling Bogdan one of our best players.
Most of the side defending Joerger are the guys who "root for wins no matter what". They don't care about the draft position because they don't think it applies to the Kings. I don't follow their logic at all. The Kings are a horrible team this year. What difference for those fans does it make if we win 23 games instead of 28? I'm 100% sure they'd forget which games were wins in this long 82 game season.
Another thing, I've seen loads of fans(not specifically here) comment about how the vets are here to teach them how to win the right way. There's no right way to win.There is no right or wrong way to win. Winning is winning. It's not like these players are kindergartners who don't know how to pick up a basketball. These guys are paid professional athletes at the highest level of basketball. They do not need to be taught how to win or how to play basketball sitting on a bench behind 30yearsolds who barely manage to wheel out wins themselves. Does anyone really want to talk about playing the right way? All I see down the stretch are Zach Randolph ISOs on the low-block.
So check me in as a confused fan.
Most of the side defending Joerger are the guys who "root for wins no matter what". They don't care about the draft position because they don't think it applies to the Kings. I don't follow their logic at all. The Kings are a horrible team this year. What difference for those fans does it make if we win 23 games instead of 28? I'm 100% sure they'd forget which games were wins in this long 82 game season.
Another thing, I've seen loads of fans(not specifically here) comment about how the vets are here to teach them how to win the right way. There's no right way to win.There is no right or wrong way to win. Winning is winning. It's not like these players are kindergartners who don't know how to pick up a basketball. These guys are paid professional athletes at the highest level of basketball. They do not need to be taught how to win or how to play basketball sitting on a bench behind 30yearsolds who barely manage to wheel out wins themselves. Does anyone really want to talk about playing the right way? All I see down the stretch are Zach Randolph ISOs on the low-block.
So check me in as a confused fan.
Wasn't ESP47's point not the amount of minutes Fox is playing but how he is being used? He brings the ball up, slowly, and dumps it off to zbo. Stands around with everyone else. Watch zbo back it down. Rinse and repeat.
The only way anything will change is if vlade trades the vets, especially zbo, and forces joeger to play the rooks in an offense that is beneficial to their development.
The only way anything will change is if vlade trades the vets, especially zbo, and forces joeger to play the rooks in an offense that is beneficial to their development.
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Probably not. I think Hield has an edge as a scorer on offense that can make him special. I actually think Bogdan is a more well-rounded basketball player, but Buddy could end up being a better player if that makes sense. Difference between Klay and say DeRozan.
Well me and you have different criteria to our franchise player definitions. So agree to disagree.
Well me and you have different criteria to our franchise player definitions. So agree to disagree.
Do you think the Kings are good enough to get into the playoffs with Gasol? He's never been a player who could carry an entire offense. Let's say he brings us to 40 wins, but not enough to reach the playoffs. Kings end up with the 14th pick instead of the 5th. What good does this do for our young core? The following year, Gasol will be 33 and on his last year of the contract. This is not a very good plan.
This is not a proper rebuild. This is trying to win-now. This screws up everything the Kings have been preaching after trading Cousins. The Kings would be the most dysfunctional sports franchise in the entire United States. Vlade would be the dumbest GM on the planet of the earth. You have to remember.. if we were to trade for Gasol, we'd actually have to give up valuable pieces. This includes anything from our 2017 pick, future picks, Buddy Hield, Bogdan Bogdanovic, WCS, etc. We'd actually have to give up something valuable for Gasol. Not just Kosta and Richardson.
Also, Parker is a lot more proven and talented than Giles. Right now, Giles is nearly a complete unknown for the team. His lone year in Duke barely showed anything special. We have no clue if he's even still a decent basketball player, let alone NBA player.
This is not a proper rebuild. This is trying to win-now. This screws up everything the Kings have been preaching after trading Cousins. The Kings would be the most dysfunctional sports franchise in the entire United States. Vlade would be the dumbest GM on the planet of the earth. You have to remember.. if we were to trade for Gasol, we'd actually have to give up valuable pieces. This includes anything from our 2017 pick, future picks, Buddy Hield, Bogdan Bogdanovic, WCS, etc. We'd actually have to give up something valuable for Gasol. Not just Kosta and Richardson.
Also, Parker is a lot more proven and talented than Giles. Right now, Giles is nearly a complete unknown for the team. His lone year in Duke barely showed anything special. We have no clue if he's even still a decent basketball player, let alone NBA player.
Remember, assists don't count into their usage rating. So if Wall breaks down the defense and kicks the ball out to Beal and he makes a 3, that counts toward Beal's usage rating, not Wall's. During Wall's rookie year, he averaged 8 assists a game so while it looks like his usage rating is about the same as Fox's, in reality it's completely different because Wall was being used to run the offense from the get go. They let Wall go out and do his thing, which led to a ton of turnovers and poor shooting efficiency but it also let him rack up assists and points. Wizards fans got to see flashes from Wall all year long, something we don't even get the chance to see from our young guy because he's not allowed to go and do what he does best.
Exactly. ZBo isn't teaching them how to win because no one on the roster can do what ZBo does. These guys have all been winners from high school throughout college. Justin Jackson won an NCAA championship last year. They know what winning feels like. The vets should be helping them win games by elevating their play. Not by having them sit or stand around and watch. The vets are going to have to play, they can't just ride the bench while all the young guys play but the vets shouldn't be dominating the ball at the expense of the young guys.
It's very confusing. I'm sure Fox is confused too because Joerger is constantly yelling at him to run but there's no where to run to. The best analogy I can think of is if someone introduces you as their funny friend and the person you get introduced to says "Ok then...say something funny". That's basically what Joerger is doing with Fox. He's like you're fast, so go run. But this is the NBA, you can't just go run because you're fast, the same way you can't just say something funny because someone tells you to. You either need numbers on a break or you need to be ISO'd on one side of the court or you need a good screen set so you can get a step on your man. Telling a guy to just go run because he's fast is terribly lazy coaching. It's like an MMA fighter that keeps getting taken down to the mat and his corner is screaming "Get up". He's not an idiot, don't just tell him to get up, tell him how to get up.
Exactly. ZBo isn't teaching them how to win because no one on the roster can do what ZBo does. These guys have all been winners from high school throughout college. Justin Jackson won an NCAA championship last year. They know what winning feels like. The vets should be helping them win games by elevating their play. Not by having them sit or stand around and watch. The vets are going to have to play, they can't just ride the bench while all the young guys play but the vets shouldn't be dominating the ball at the expense of the young guys.
It's very confusing. I'm sure Fox is confused too because Joerger is constantly yelling at him to run but there's no where to run to. The best analogy I can think of is if someone introduces you as their funny friend and the person you get introduced to says "Ok then...say something funny". That's basically what Joerger is doing with Fox. He's like you're fast, so go run. But this is the NBA, you can't just go run because you're fast, the same way you can't just say something funny because someone tells you to. You either need numbers on a break or you need to be ISO'd on one side of the court or you need a good screen set so you can get a step on your man. Telling a guy to just go run because he's fast is terribly lazy coaching. It's like an MMA fighter that keeps getting taken down to the mat and his corner is screaming "Get up". He's not an idiot, don't just tell him to get up, tell him how to get up.
I agree. I think Bogdan has the makings of a terrific 2 way role player that can maximize his abilities at times to go beyond them. I think Buddy is a different type of player but his ceiling as a scorer is far more prolific. They make a great combination from the looks of it. Too bad we don't get to see nearly enough of it.
Parker is a lot more proven than Giles! Agreed! Obvious statement, but why bother? Parker has played in the NBA for a couple of years and Giles has yet to suit up for a game. Duh!! Parker is a lot more talented than Giles. Really, and how do you know that since we've never seen Giles play in the NBA yet. It's these kind of statements that drive me nuts. You have no freaking idea how good or bad Giles is, and yet you make a statement like that. Giles might end up being a superstar for you all you and I know right now. Or he might be out of the league in two or three years. Point is, we don't know do we? Here's what we do know.
At one point, Giles was considered to be the best player in last years draft. Of course the injury ended that speculation. No, he didn't show much at Duke last year, but then he was recovering from the same injury that he's still currently in rehab for. Quotes from people that have seen him in practice, Zach Randolph, Garrett Temple, Doug Christie, Peja, and James Hamm. "Giles will be an all star in this league". "When Giles hits the floor, he will be the best passer on the team". "Three years from now, Giles will be considered the best player to come out of this draft". "Giles is going to be the best player on this team". That's pretty high praise coming from people I respect.
So far, that's really all we have to go on. Hopefully in the near future we'll have more. But to say off hand that Parker is more talented than Giles, based on zero information for comparison, makes little or no sense.
At one point, Giles was considered to be the best player in last years draft. Of course the injury ended that speculation. No, he didn't show much at Duke last year, but then he was recovering from the same injury that he's still currently in rehab for. Quotes from people that have seen him in practice, Zach Randolph, Garrett Temple, Doug Christie, Peja, and James Hamm. "Giles will be an all star in this league". "When Giles hits the floor, he will be the best passer on the team". "Three years from now, Giles will be considered the best player to come out of this draft". "Giles is going to be the best player on this team". That's pretty high praise coming from people I respect.
So far, that's really all we have to go on. Hopefully in the near future we'll have more. But to say off hand that Parker is more talented than Giles, based on zero information for comparison, makes little or no sense.
Gasol makes us darn competitive for next year. I said it would be nice to acquire him at the deadline for a reason—our lottery position would be fairly set and I don’t think he adds any wins post-deadline that we would not otherwise have gotten. There are going to be teams out-tanking us. The Clippers and Suns, for instance, are going to be a complete clown show down the stretch. There’s nothing we can do about that anyway. In addition, I’m no conspiracy theorist, but I do believe the NBA likes its potential future stars to go to the most advantageous positions possible. Let’s just say that I think it behooves us to continue to enhance the club and prove that the missing wing playmaker would step into an All-Star making situation. Maybe the basketball gods will shine upon us...funny how the basketball gods tend to appreciate tailor-made situations like that.
A proper rebuild is whatever makes you a conference finalist. By your criteria, Indiana has never done a proper rebuild. Are their fans disappointed with all of those improper rebuilds? One has to consider the type of team that Vlade, Peja, Joerger and Vivek want. They want what the golden age Kings had: ball movement, cutting, post players who can see the court. If they have the chance to get a player that will individually create that team, then I don’t think they will hesitate. Gasol is that type of player.
Post injury Parker is not proven, and a completely unneccessary risk that you must almost immediately max out. Just not a smart decision. Parker was a below average athlete coming into the league; he’s going to be a shorter ZBo in just a couple of years, if he can stay healthy. And WCS plus New Manu would make the Bucks a conference finalist. That’s their two missing pieces right there. Let’s circle back to the type of team the FO and ownership wants—how does trading Bogdan for a ball-stopping PF further enhance the culture? We already have a ball-stopping PF that everyone seems to be mad about.
A proper rebuild is whatever makes you a conference finalist. By your criteria, Indiana has never done a proper rebuild. Are their fans disappointed with all of those improper rebuilds? One has to consider the type of team that Vlade, Peja, Joerger and Vivek want. They want what the golden age Kings had: ball movement, cutting, post players who can see the court. If they have the chance to get a player that will individually create that team, then I don’t think they will hesitate. Gasol is that type of player.
Post injury Parker is not proven, and a completely unneccessary risk that you must almost immediately max out. Just not a smart decision. Parker was a below average athlete coming into the league; he’s going to be a shorter ZBo in just a couple of years, if he can stay healthy. And WCS plus New Manu would make the Bucks a conference finalist. That’s their two missing pieces right there. Let’s circle back to the type of team the FO and ownership wants—how does trading Bogdan for a ball-stopping PF further enhance the culture? We already have a ball-stopping PF that everyone seems to be mad about.
It's this kind of insane thinking that has gotten the Kings were they are right now. The Kings have been a revolving door for players, coaches and GM's, and you want to continue down that road. I've been on this forum for a long time, and I've been arguing with this kind of thinking ever since I've gotten here, and while people who think this way come and go, there's always another one like you that shows up to continue the insanity. I will continue to be a Kings fan and root for the team. But I'm finally done here. I'm tired of the arguing the same argument over and over again. It's been fun while it lasted, and I may post from time to time in the prospects forum, but that's it folks. I wish everyone a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
If that's it, then we're doomed. Fire them now. Now all of a sudden, they, working for this sad sack franchise get to be picky about the type of team they want to create? Are you serious? That's Vivek jazz-band level garbage. The personnel we're trying to develop don't suit that. Fox is in no way a Bibby type PG. WCS, Skal, Papagiannis, and maybe Giles (who knows. We haven't seen him yet) aren't playmaking bigs.
You use what works best and not shoehorn a style. For all the talk of people wanting to emulate the Spurs, they've changed dramatically over the years. When they were running with Duncan and Robinson, they were vastly different than what they were in the early part of this decade.
Getting Gasol would be the second worst move Vlade has made in his tenure. It's incredibly shortsighted.
Because he's young talent. That's the biggest thing. Parker scares the crap out of me with his injury history, but he's a talented combo forward I would take a flier on. Culture? That's cart before the horse. I wouldn't give up as much as some are suggesting, but you are vastly overrated Bogdanovic. He is not the next Ginobili.
You use what works best and not shoehorn a style. For all the talk of people wanting to emulate the Spurs, they've changed dramatically over the years. When they were running with Duncan and Robinson, they were vastly different than what they were in the early part of this decade.
Getting Gasol would be the second worst move Vlade has made in his tenure. It's incredibly shortsighted.
Because he's young talent. That's the biggest thing. Parker scares the crap out of me with his injury history, but he's a talented combo forward I would take a flier on. Culture? That's cart before the horse. I wouldn't give up as much as some are suggesting, but you are vastly overrated Bogdanovic. He is not the next Ginobili.