[Game] Kings v. Nuggets, Monday, 11/20 - 7 PT

Where do you want to see WCS play?

  • Total voters
    26
  • Poll closed .
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#1
#1
Based on some conversation in the Portland game threads, I added a poll for this game. :)

So the "here and there" resulted in a win "here" and a loss "there." Kinda like what I think most of us would have said ahead of time we'd be happy with, excepting perhaps pdxkingsfan who was sitting in Portland. :p

We face the Nuggets - but at least it's not in Denver! I'll be honest...I don't mind seeing Michael Malone come back to Sacramento any more. I'm very happy with the coach we have now.

This game is gonna present some matchup headaches for the Kings. Do we put Z-Bo at the 5 to start? Is Skal gonna take the court first at the 4? Should Joerger stick with what he's used for two whole games? There are no easy answers.

Watching this team in their full "LEARN" mode is at least entertaining. I like getting a glimpse of what may be to come. I hope Buddy heals quickly as it's pretty apparent we need him as our energy to come off the bench. His impact reminds me a lot of the original energizer bunny. I don't think it's a coincidence he sports the same number. :)

Anybody else concerned with Malachi? He just doesn't seem locked in to what he should be doing. He looked like he was trying to play at 78 while the rest of the team was at 45. (If you don't know what that means, ask your Grandma.)

As long as we continue to see heart, hustle, energy and effort, I'll continue to be hopeful about the future.

GO KINGS!!
 
upinsmoke

upinsmoke

All-Star
#7
#7
VF21 said:
Anybody else concerned with Malachi? He just doesn't seem locked in to what he should be doing. He looked like he was trying to play at 78 while the rest of the team was at 45. (If you don't know what that means, ask your Grandma.)
Click to expand...
I asked her she said "que mijo? And kept insisting that I eat. Any hoo about Malachi I want to see him get extended mins outside of garbage time. He hasn't played so poorly and his peers playing so exceptionally to warrant not cracking the rotation.
 
miltonap

miltonap

Starter
#8
#8
upinsmoke said:
I asked her she said "que mijo? And kept insisting that I eat. Any hoo about Malachi I want to see him get extended mins outside of garbage time. He hasn't played so poorly and his peers playing so exceptionally to warrant not cracking the rotation.
Click to expand...
Agree, Malachi has been fine and I prefer him to JJ right now
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#9
#9
I guess we're watching different Malachis. I tried focusing on him and he didn't keep my interest. He sagged on defense, he moved ahead of screens, he seemed out of control going inside with the ball, and more than once he looked like he couldn't figure out where he was supposed to be. I want him to get back to how he looked last year because I like him, but I certainly don't think he's been "fine."
 
Suicide King

Suicide King

Starter
#10
#10
I think Justin Jackson has been under rated among a lot of fans. He may not be flashy, but he is definitely solid. His defense is very tight for a rookie and his shot, whether a super fast release floater, or a set 3 pointer, has been nice.

Not sure why he sat out the last two games, but I imagine when he gets minutes again he will be hungry and cognizant of whatever lesson was meant to be taught.
 
N

Nokidding

Bench
#11
#11
Where WCS plays and what position is not the concern it's how he plays in terms of effort that is the only concern.

In the first two games of the season he played C and he played as well as he did the last two when he was a PF.
 
2

206Fan

All-Star
#12
#12
Not really looking for a win, just want to see the young guys do good. Teaching the kids to win is kinda bs when we don't have a franchise player to build around yet. Just need to teach these kids to play good with PT.
 
ockingsfan

ockingsfan

Starter
#13
#13
WCS is not a sit in the lane and "clog" the lane type defender, which a center typically does. I think that lulls him into an ineffective/losses focus state.

He is at his best when he is active and chasing down players and harassing them into poor shots. I would move him to Power Forward, to best utilize his skill and mind set.
 
Last edited:
Blob

Blob

Starter
#15
#15
ockingsfan said:
I would move him to center, to best utilize his skill and mind set.
Click to expand...
This seems contradictory to his improved play next to Koufos unless you want to characterize them as dual centers, which I guess is a fair characterization. It seems to help Willie to have Koufos as an interior presence so he is more free to roam. Koufos is the "wall in the paint" that carves out space and enables to Willie to play more freelance.

Next to Z-Bong, Willie bears more of the inside defense responsibility since Z-Bong assumes none. I thought Willie post-game comments after the 1st Blazers game was a veiled criticism of Z-Bong. And rightfully so, it must be hard to play next to defensive statue when you are NO great shakes yourself on defense or the boards.

In addition to defensive presence, Koufos has improved on his catching of the ball. Last year was the SAME story where it took him to December to find his hand-eye coordination and shooting touch to the degree he has any. Weird how that works and history repeats. Koufos has gone from unwatchable to serviceable to pretty good just like last year. I think the new players are learning when and where to pass it to him from too often to less often but still too often if that makes sense lol.

Tonight will be interesting in match-up between high-octane and low-octane offense, between twine-tinging and rim-rattling, between 56% TS (Nuggets) and 49.8% TS (Kings).

Something has to give Kings fans!

Here's something of interest I decided to look into for context. The 76ers were intentionally trying to lose for three years preceding the last two (2013-2016), intentionally committing to neophytes and nincompoops . Let's see how one of the WORST teams in NBA history that precipitated lottery reform to prevent intentional awfulness compares to this current group of bricklayers over 15 games.

Kings over 15 games: 49.8 TS% (-13.7 point differential; ????)

76ers 2015-16: 51.9% (-10 point differential; 10-72 losses)
76ers 2014-15: 49.4% (-9.4 point differential; 18-64 losses)
76ers 2013-14: 51% ( -10.5 point differential; 19-63 loses)

The numbers speak for themselves. They reflect collective failure from players to coaches, no one is immune. I am pointing this out not to be negative but as counterpoint to this ludicrous comment by Joerger following the Blazers win paraphrasing that "despite the sky is falling mentality, we are 3-3 over the last 6...." I don't fault Joerger for putting positive spin but make NO mistake, this is spin.

The Kings are fortunate to have 4 wins withe 2 wins vs the 76ers and Blazers being a coin flip down to the final seconds. The Kings need three strong performances this week vs. Nuggets, vs Lakers and vs Clippers. If these are not wins they need to be inspired efforts. 15 games is ENOUGH for this team to start to get its act together and play respectable ball. I think it is starting to happen but it is time to start taking legitimate steps forward.

The Kings are at crossroads for who they want to be. It is time to come together dive on the floor make some shots or seriously question those in charge. I expect the Kings to play well and predict a couple of wins but it would also not shock me to see the Kings get routed three games in a row. Unless you are playing spectacular defense it is extremely difficult to win with 49.8% TS. So the Kings either need to make more shots, Skal needs to awaken from his nighmare, Boggy needs to show why he got $30M, De'Aaaron needs to start making legitimate ROY, Buddy needs to show the end to last year was NO fluke etc etc etc, OR the Kings need to rely on a defense that has been 3rd most generous in the league.
 
ockingsfan

ockingsfan

Starter
#16
#16
Blob said:
This seems contradictory to his improved play next to Koufos unless you want to characterize them as dual centers, which I guess is a fair characterization. It seems to help Willie to have Koufos as an interior presence so he is more free to roam. Koufos is the "wall in the paint" that carves out space and enables to Willie to play more freelance.

Next to Z-Bong, Willie bears more of the inside defense responsibility since Z-Bong assumes none. I thought Willie post-game comments after the 1st Blazers game was a veiled criticism of Z-Bong. And rightfully so, it must be hard to play next to defensive statue when you are NO great shakes yourself on defense or the boards.

In addition to defensive presence, Koufos has improved on his catching of the ball. Last year was the SAME story where it took him to December to find his hand-eye coordination and shooting touch to the degree he has any. Weird how that works and history repeats. Koufos has gone from unwatchable to serviceable to pretty good just like last year. I think the new players are learning when and where to pass it to him from too often to less often but still too often if that makes sense lol.

Tonight will be interesting in match-up between high-octane and low-octane offense, between twine-tinging and rim-rattling, between 56% TS (Nuggets) and 49.8% TS (Kings).

Something has to give Kings fans!

Here's something of interest I decided to look into for context. The 76ers were intentionally trying to lose for three years preceding the last two (2013-2016), intentionally committing to neophytes and nincompoops . Let's see how one of the WORST teams in NBA history that precipitated lottery reform to prevent intentional awfulness compares to this current group of bricklayers over 15 games.

Kings over 15 games: 49.8 TS% (-13.7 point differential; ????)

76ers 2015-16: 51.9% (-10 point differential; 10-72 losses)
76ers 2014-15: 49.4% (-9.4 point differential; 18-64 losses)
76ers 2013-14: 51% ( -10.5 point differential; 19-63 loses)

The numbers speak for themselves. They reflect collective failure from players to coaches, no one is immune. I am pointing this out not to be negative but as counterpoint to this ludicrous comment by Joerger following the Blazers win paraphrasing that "despite the sky is falling mentality, we are 3-3 over the last 6...." I don't fault Joerger for putting positive spin but make NO mistake, this is spin.

The Kings are fortunate to have 4 wins withe 2 wins vs the 76ers and Blazers being a coin flip down to the final seconds. The Kings need three strong performances this week vs. Nuggets, vs Lakers and vs Clippers. If these are not wins they need to be inspired efforts. 15 games is ENOUGH for this team to start to get its act together and play respectable ball. I think it is starting to happen but it is time to start taking legitimate steps forward.

The Kings are at crossroads for who they want to be. It is time to come together dive on the floor make some shots or seriously question those in charge. I expect the Kings to play well and predict a couple of wins but it would also not shock me to see the Kings get routed three games in a row. Unless you are playing spectacular defense it is extremely difficult to win with 49.8% TS. So the Kings either need to make more shots, Skal needs to awaken from his nighmare, Boggy needs to show why he got $30M, De'Aaaron needs to start making legitimate ROY, Buddy needs to show the end to last year was NO fluke etc etc etc, OR the Kings need to rely on a defense that has been 3rd most generous in the league.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I meant move him to Power Forward.
 
Larry89

Larry89

Disgruntled Kings Fan
#18
#18
Jeremy Fraser said:
I like your optimism but I'm not sure if "offense" was a typo or just beyond my vocabulary. Could you clarify (pardon my ignorance).
Click to expand...
I was alluding to the fact that our offense could not get any worse than it was against the Nuggets the first time we played them. We had 40 points with 4 minutes left to go in the 3rd that game.
 
Gliesian

Gliesian

Bench
#19
#19
Blob said:
This seems contradictory to his improved play next to Koufos unless you want to characterize them as dual centers, which I guess is a fair characterization. It seems to help Willie to have Koufos as an interior presence so he is more free to roam. Koufos is the "wall in the paint" that carves out space and enables to Willie to play more freelance.

Next to Z-Bong, Willie bears more of the inside defense responsibility since Z-Bong assumes none. I thought Willie post-game comments after the 1st Blazers game was a veiled criticism of Z-Bong. And rightfully so, it must be hard to play next to defensive statue when you are NO great shakes yourself on defense or the boards.

In addition to defensive presence, Koufos has improved on his catching of the ball. Last year was the SAME story where it took him to December to find his hand-eye coordination and shooting touch to the degree he has any. Weird how that works and history repeats. Koufos has gone from unwatchable to serviceable to pretty good just like last year. I think the new players are learning when and where to pass it to him from too often to less often but still too often if that makes sense lol.

Tonight will be interesting in match-up between high-octane and low-octane offense, between twine-tinging and rim-rattling, between 56% TS (Nuggets) and 49.8% TS (Kings).

Something has to give Kings fans!

Here's something of interest I decided to look into for context. The 76ers were intentionally trying to lose for three years preceding the last two (2013-2016), intentionally committing to neophytes and nincompoops . Let's see how one of the WORST teams in NBA history that precipitated lottery reform to prevent intentional awfulness compares to this current group of bricklayers over 15 games.

Kings over 15 games: 49.8 TS% (-13.7 point differential; ????)

76ers 2015-16: 51.9% (-10 point differential; 10-72 losses)
76ers 2014-15: 49.4% (-9.4 point differential; 18-64 losses)
76ers 2013-14: 51% ( -10.5 point differential; 19-63 loses)

The numbers speak for themselves. They reflect collective failure from players to coaches, no one is immune. I am pointing this out not to be negative but as counterpoint to this ludicrous comment by Joerger following the Blazers win paraphrasing that "despite the sky is falling mentality, we are 3-3 over the last 6...." I don't fault Joerger for putting positive spin but make NO mistake, this is spin.

The Kings are fortunate to have 4 wins withe 2 wins vs the 76ers and Blazers being a coin flip down to the final seconds. The Kings need three strong performances this week vs. Nuggets, vs Lakers and vs Clippers. If these are not wins they need to be inspired efforts. 15 games is ENOUGH for this team to start to get its act together and play respectable ball. I think it is starting to happen but it is time to start taking legitimate steps forward.

The Kings are at crossroads for who they want to be. It is time to come together dive on the floor make some shots or seriously question those in charge. I expect the Kings to play well and predict a couple of wins but it would also not shock me to see the Kings get routed three games in a row. Unless you are playing spectacular defense it is extremely difficult to win with 49.8% TS. So the Kings either need to make more shots, Skal needs to awaken from his nighmare, Boggy needs to show why he got $30M, De'Aaaron needs to start making legitimate ROY, Buddy needs to show the end to last year was NO fluke etc etc etc, OR the Kings need to rely on a defense that has been 3rd most generous in the league.
Click to expand...
I agree 99% but I'm gonna take a long hard look at the third quarter of this season as an independent unknown. I'll give em the first half to get accustomed and the last quarter doesn't mean a lot when tanking teams give you the wins. Hopefully that schedule difficulty doesn't deviate too much from average; but if our guys don't have a respectable FG% during that time, that is a REALLY BAD sign of things to come. You gotta be able to shoot the dang ball!!!
 
funkykingston

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#20
#20
I think the issue with Malachi is that he's pressing. He wants to play within the system but at the same time he sees the minutes crunch and knows he may have limited opportunities. It results in him seeming a bit our of sorts.

With WCS I don't know that where he plays is as big an issue as coming to play every night. It seems like when he's given a starting woke and minutes he tends to coast and when coming off the bench he plays with more energy. It could be that watching the flow of the game lets him be better prepared, or playing against second string guys or even knowing that he can play hard and not having to conserve energy.

But my fear is that it's none of these and simply that he's just not self motivated on the court and needs the motivation.

I really like Willie but if in year three he's not able to play hard every game then it may be time to see what the Kings can get in return for him before they are forced to overpay to keep him or let him walk.
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#22
#22
WCS seems to play better as the "Free Safety" where he can roam a bit and make an impact as a weakside shot-blocker or looking to contest shots on the perimeter without having to worry about staying near the paint to get the defensive board. Sort of like how the old OKC teams used Serge Ibaka and kept Kendrick Perkins to be the "enforcer" around the rim.

Hate to see Buddy out as he's really started to play awesome off the bench and carve out a nice role for himself. But it does give us a chance to take a deep look at Malachi/Bogdan/JJ on the wing and see if any of them can separate themselves from the pack. Also think this puts even more offensive responsibility on Fox to be the main playmaker as Buddy has probably been our best offensive scorer the last 8-10 games.
 
jcassio

jcassio

Starter
#29
#29
Hoping that Willie plays well tonight. If he does, that'll be the first time I can recall that he's played well 3 games in a row. And it'll be a confidence-builder for the fans who, like myself, have been doubting Willie's future with the Kings.
I do think Joerger has stumbled onto a good starting lineup that works well - for now. And Kosta and Willie have been playing really well together in the 2nd unit. The change I'd like to see is less Z-Bo and more Skal-Bo.
 
kingsboi

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#30
#30
jcassio said:
Hoping that Willie plays well tonight. If he does, that'll be the first time I can recall that he's played well 3 games in a row. And it'll be a confidence-builder for the fans who, like myself, have been doubting Willie's future with the Kings.
I do think Joerger has stumbled onto a good starting lineup that works well - for now. And Kosta and Willie have been playing really well together in the 2nd unit. The change I'd like to see is less Z-Bo and more Skal-Bo.
Click to expand...
if only slow-bo can get demoted to the end of the bench, the Kings would be a little more watchable at least, let the youth play through the bad, ugly and good
 
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