Vet free agents and filling out the roster

[Fireplug]

There are, according to Spotrac, 128 free agents (restricted and unrestricted) this summer. Plus all those rookies that need to be signed by teams.

Kings have way more money to spend than most teams. There are 53 million reasons why there will be a LOT of players trying to garner the Kings attention this summer.

( via http://basketball.realgm.com/analys...017-Cap-Space-For-All-30-NBA-Teams-Version-60 )

 

[ockingsfan]

I am starting to think we roll with the rookie point guards and just add a veteran PG to be the 2nd/3rd point guard. Someone that we can get cheap for the veteran minimum for a 1 or 2 year contract.

There are a couple of veteran point guards that could fill that roll and both have ties to Coach Joeger. If these players are healthy, I would try and sign either Mario Chalmers or Beno Udrih to be a reliable 3rd point guard.

I say we roll with Fox and Mason at Point Guard and add a cheap vet min PG, just in case. DC and Lawson may be too expensive and would take away more PT away from the rookies.

 

[upinsmoke]

James Ham suggested we add Jordan Farmar.

 

[kingjatt]

Also, its hard to know what type of free agent would work with the current squad because over half of the roster is turned over again this year, i really don't get the calls for signing a max level guy like Milsap already when we have no clue on what we currently have.

Successful teams like Boston STILL would not commit big money to a vet until they were an established playoff team, learn from the smart teams!!

Any free agent coming to Sac is coming for the money and not coming at fair value, we WILL be overpaying for whatever value we are getting which makes me not want major pieces via free agency anyway until we show that we have the management in place to construct an up and coming winning roster which will lead to guys possibly coming here for closer to fair market value. We are quite far away from that point.

If anything sign some bottom of the barrel bargain bin guys to fill out open spots that we have and gun for another potential star to play alongside our other potential star in Fox in next years draft.

Use most if not all of the capspace to rent out for picks and assets if the opportunity is there!

 

[Suicide King]

I liked Joerger's approach to giving out minutes last year. Fully supported it. However I don't think everything has to be either or, one size fits all.
I know we are all a little gun shy from past coaching staffs playing our rookies big minutes and that player not turning out like we hoped. But each player plays a role in that, and perhaps more importantly, our coaching has been pretty bad post RA.
I would be fine with some reasonable contracts for a SF and or backup PF. Not keen on Millsap, Holiday, Hill or any signings of that ilk. Either we are ready to compete for the playoffs or not yet.
No more middle please.
Also here are a few notable PGs mins per game in their rookie seasons : Conley -26.1-Irving -30.5-Paul -36- Wall-37.8- WB- 32.5

I trust the coaching staff more than in years past to develop the rookies. Whether some are in G-League to start, or some (like Fox) are starters from opening tip, I think our coaching staff knows what they are doing. Fill the holes, just no more middling seasons.

 

[ockingsfan]

James Ham suggested we add Jordan Farmar.

Jordan Farmar has a history with Coach Joeger too. He fits the bill as a reliable 3rd point guard that could be available for the vet min.

He could be a good pick up.

 

[twslam07]

Patient, Ggoud...um checked the results lately?

Team has been bad for more than a decade. The style of play was unwatchable imo. Guys on board now fun. I don't want to ever have to turn the game off because we are down 30 at half again. Sign some solid players .

The team being bad for more than a decade should not change the approach. If the best approach is to stay bad in the short term, then stay bad in the short term. It's as simple as that.

 

[twslam07]

After giving this some thought, I think we should go after:

(1) Paul Millsap
(2) Tony Snell (or Andre Roberson)
(3) Ty Lawson

I know Millsap is expensive and long in the tooth, but he will make everyone on our team better and ease pressure on all the young guys. He can be the cog to our offense and defense and give Buddy, Fox and Skal the freedom to excel. Millsap can initiate the offense from the high post AND run pick and roll with our PGs. This is what SI has to say about Millsap:

Paul Millsap
Millsap will be paid like a star because he is one, no matter how he might be regarded by the most casual NBA fans. What they often fail to see are the things that coaches fret over and teammates appreciate. Millsap is one of the best in the league at making up for his teammates’ mistakes, whether by switching outright, holding his rotation longer than he’d like, or popping up to defend the rim. His hands are ridiculously disruptive for his position. He also lives in that space between positions, where to guard Millsap with a wing leaves a defense vulnerable to post-ups and drives but a more traditional big might not be able to keep up with him. His presence makes a team smarter; teammates understand where to go based on where Millsap sets them up with his interior passes and they grasp the nuances of a team defense from how he executes. A pro’s pro.

After giving this some thought? It obviously wasn't enough thought...

This plan leads us one step closer to a mediocre future.

 

[twslam07]

We aren't that far apart. The only thing I would greatly disagree with you about is I don't want the team to plan to purposely get that higher draft pick. I want the team to get the players (only three left if (can't spell his name) comes over) to be successful next year and the years (plural) following. If the contract is reasonable contracts, do it. I agree with not squandering the cap space, however the Kings only have so many slots available and to exchange cap space for assets requires a slot to put said player even if it is just to cut him.

The team will be doing no such thing. The front office, however, should be mindful that they have an excellent shot at landing a premier asset next year.

 

[twslam07]

The development of our players is more important than what could possibly happen in 2018. We don't have know what we have. We may already have three all-star caliber players on our team with Fox, Buddy and Skal. It is more important that we nurture this talent with the right veterans around them then plot for ways to get the 4th versus 12th pick in 2018. I agree with you the risk of the deal with Millsap is the 3rd and 4th year and declining productivity. But he's a savvy and heady player and so will likely still be effective as his athleticism declines. The risk is an overpay I think is worth it to help these young guys turn into true pros and so they experience success.

Why do you act like they are mutually exclusive? Players develop and improve their games while also being a bottom 5 team. This is fact. What is important is having a coach who knows how to develop players (Joerger) and having some hard working, high character, veteran mentors who can teach these young guys how to be professionals (Temple, Koufos, & Tolliver if resigned).

You're right. We don't know what we have yet. When you don't know what you have yet, you don't go locking up your cap space on 30+ year old veterans. You stay flexible from a cap perspective and continue to do everything you can to acquire the best picks/young assets you can. Once you KNOW you have a couple stars, then you start to build and shape the team around them. People are putting the cart before the horse.

The other variable is the West is wide open. The Lakers are a joke. The Suns are terrible. The Mavs are terrible. The Clippers could implode if they lose one or both of Paul and Griffin. The Grizzlies are old. The Pelicans are two man team if Holiday walks & will be team of turmoil if history is any indication. The Jazz will take step back if they lose Hayward. The Nuggets score but play NO defense The Wolves took step forward with Butler but that's still a team of mismatched talent. The only teams I would concede as better than the Kings in the West are:

- Warriors
- Spurs
- Rockets
- Blazers
- Jazz

A team capable of finishing 6th in West (Kings?) is at least a 35 win team. And I am not that impressed with Rockets, Blazers or Jazz (if they lose Hayward). I certainly think our guys think they are capable of competing against these guys. So if this is the landscape before potential dramatic improvement this summer why should we just rollover and concede the season in name of developing young guys? We should develop our young guys simultaneously with trying to win. We need to try to win so that culture change is reflected in the win / loss column. This means spending on quality players now instead of postponing success for a day that may never come.

Kings as the 6th seed? Homerism at it's finest. Take a step back and really think about what you just said. This team is going to have 9 rookies and 2nd year players. We have good potential, but that's all it is at this point. They still need to learn how to play at the NBA level. That takes time.

 

[twslam07]

Signing 3 low level vets to fill out the roster would be such a bad thing for the young players development. Millsap on a 3 year deal is very good. Take pressure off the rooks. Let them compete for wins. Don't send them out there to just get minutes and get their asses kicked. Adding Millsap is going to keep us a lottery team. Look at the TWolves. Stack up youngsters for years, trade for a vet like Butler at the right time.

I mean, I don't get the idea of signing a guy like Troy Williams and then letting he and Justin Jackson handle the SF position with help from Malachi. How about sign a Troy Williams AND a legit SF and a vet PG and take pressure off our kids. Joerger and the staff just showed everyone how to work in and develop the youngsters last year. Meaningful minutes is the goal for next year.

It actually wouldn't. Why can't these low level veterans take pressure off the rookies? Why do the veterans we sign have to be good to take the pressure off the rookies? Bring in veterans that are hard working and don't quit, and let them take the punishment if you are worried about the rookie's confidence.

 

[roasthawg]

After giving this some thought, I think we should go after:

(1) Paul Millsap
(2) Tony Snell (or Andre Roberson)
(3) Ty Lawson

I know Millsap is expensive and long in the tooth, but he will make everyone on our team better and ease pressure on all the young guys. He can be the cog to our offense and defense and give Buddy, Fox and Skal the freedom to excel. Millsap can initiate the offense from the high post AND run pick and roll with our PGs. This is what SI has to say about Millsap:

Paul Millsap
Millsap will be paid like a star because he is one, no matter how he might be regarded by the most casual NBA fans. What they often fail to see are the things that coaches fret over and teammates appreciate. Millsap is one of the best in the league at making up for his teammates’ mistakes, whether by switching outright, holding his rotation longer than he’d like, or popping up to defend the rim. His hands are ridiculously disruptive for his position. He also lives in that space between positions, where to guard Millsap with a wing leaves a defense vulnerable to post-ups and drives but a more traditional big might not be able to keep up with him. His presence makes a team smarter; teammates understand where to go based on where Millsap sets them up with his interior passes and they grasp the nuances of a team defense from how he executes. A pro’s pro.

Great post, I literally couldn't agree more! Millsap, Snell, and Lawson would be a thing of beauty. Lawson makes a ton of sense at this point as pretty much the perfect pg to sign... Knows the system, happy being a backup, similar playing style to Fox, etc. I'd still go with Milos if possible but assuming that's not happening Lawson is my guy.

Snell would be a great signing... He can battle it out with Jackson and if we ever have to move one it shouldn't be an issue.

Millsap is the guy to bring in and help us develop and win. He's a winner with a playing style our current bigs would do well to emulate.

 

[kingsfan1984]

Signing 3 low level vets to fill out the roster would be such a bad thing for the young players development. Millsap on a 3 year deal is very good. Take pressure off the rooks. Let them compete for wins. Don't send them out there to just get minutes and get their asses kicked. Adding Millsap is going to keep us a lottery team. Look at the TWolves. Stack up youngsters for years, trade for a vet like Butler at the right time.

I mean, I don't get the idea of signing a guy like Troy Williams and then letting he and Justin Jackson handle the SF position with help from Malachi. How about sign a Troy Williams AND a legit SF and a vet PG and take pressure off our kids. Joerger and the staff just showed everyone how to work in and develop the youngsters last year. Meaningful minutes is the goal for next year.

I like a guy like Troy Williams. Good defensive ability and worked his butt off to crave a spot for himself in the league. You say vet to "take the pressure off...makw rookie earn his mins." Why is Troy bad for that? If Jackson keeps screwing up or not working hard he goea to the end of the bench. Troy plays 35 mins a bight amd MRich get rest or mins..or Bog or Temple or other Troy williams like player. Point is there is plenty of room at the end of the bench for coaches dog house or to spread mins out so no one is playing 30 + a game if thats too much. No Milsap or Lawson/Collison needed to make guys earn it. Next guy up just like last year.

 

[funkykingston]

Why do you act like they are mutually exclusive? Players develop and improve their games while also being a bottom 5 team. This is fact. What is important is having a coach who knows how to develop players (Joerger) and having some hard working, high character, veteran mentors who can teach these young guys how to be professionals (Temple, Koufos, & Tolliver if resigned).

You're right. We don't know what we have yet. When you don't know what you have yet, you don't go locking up your cap space on 30+ year old veterans. You stay flexible from a cap perspective and continue to do everything you can to acquire the best picks/young assets you can. Once you KNOW you have a couple stars, then you start to build and shape the team around them. People are putting the cart before the horse.


Kings as the 6th seed? Homerism at it's finest. Take a step back and really think about what you just said. This team is going to have 9 rookies and 2nd year players. We have good potential, but that's all it is at this point. They still need to learn how to play at the NBA level. That takes time.

It would be incredibly difficult for the Kings to make a push for the playoffs with a rookie PG playing big minutes. So I think trying to win now and trying to give Fox enough PT to develop are going to be mutually exclusive goals.

 

[twslam07]

It would be incredibly difficult for the Kings to make a push for the playoffs with a rookie PG playing big minutes. So I think trying to win now and trying to give Fox enough PT to develop are going to be mutually exclusive goals.

You're misunderstanding. He/she was suggesting that we need to bring in a Millsap to make sure our young guys are developing meaning that you can't bring in low level veterans, keep the team bad, and develop your young guys all at the same time. That comment had nothing to do with the playoffs.

 

[kingsboi]

James Ham suggested we add Jordan Farmar.

been down that road all ready. Why do it again? Mason & Fox need to get the bulk of the minutes, not a 3rd string PG, unless it's DC or Ty.

 

[206Fan]

The development of our players is more important than what could possibly happen in 2018. We don't have know what we have. We may already have three all-star caliber players on our team with Fox, Buddy and Skal. It is more important that we nurture this talent with the right veterans around them then plot for ways to get the 4th versus 12th pick in 2018. I agree with you the risk of the deal with Millsap is the 3rd and 4th year and declining productivity. But he's a savvy and heady player and so will likely still be effective as his athleticism declines. The risk is an overpay I think is worth it to help these young guys turn into true pros and so they experience success.

The other variable is the West is wide open. The Lakers are a joke. The Suns are terrible. The Mavs are terrible. The Clippers could implode if they lose one or both of Paul and Griffin. The Grizzlies are old. The Pelicans are two man team if Holiday walks & will be team of turmoil if history is any indication. The Jazz will take step back if they lose Hayward. The Nuggets score but play NO defense The Wolves took step forward with Butler but that's still a team of mismatched talent. The only teams I would concede as better than the Kings in the West are:

- Warriors
- Spurs
- Rockets
- Blazers
- Jazz

A team capable of finishing 6th in West (Kings?) is at least a 35 win team. And I am not that impressed with Rockets, Blazers or Jazz (if they lose Hayward). I certainly think our guys think they are capable of competing against these guys. So if this is the landscape before potential dramatic improvement this summer why should we just rollover and concede the season in name of developing young guys? We should develop our young guys simultaneously with trying to win. We need to try to win so that culture change is reflected in the win / loss column. This means spending on quality players now instead of postponing success for a day that may never come.

I completely see what you're saying in regards to bringing Millsap and having him mentor Skal and Giles. His asking price is just way too much for my liking. Under the new cap number, I believe it would be 4 years $148,995,000. http://www.ajc.com/sports/basketbal...salary-cap-projection/7LKLiXfmwhCFtvOjdSkb7M/ I don't think you can frontload any NBA contracts.. but it would come out to around 37.2million/year.
There's going to be a really nice 2018 FA class. For young, but RFAs, there's: Jabari Parker, Zach LaVine, Jusuf Nurkic, Gary Harris, Clint Capela, Normal Powell, Dante Exum, Marcus Smart, Julius Randle, and TJ Warren.
Other FAs include: Isaiah Thomas, Derrick Favors, Avery Bradley, Trevor Ariza, Jeremy Lin, Iman Shumpert, Wilson Chandler, and Robert Covington.
For the young guys, I was hoping that the Kings would have enough money to put out max offers for potentially 2 different stars at the same time. Signing someone like Millsap for a hefty pricetag would make that difficult to do. Maybe I'm looking way too far ahead, but I really don't want to be tied with 37mpy for a 32yearold Millsap. That move would've made much more sense if we still had Cousins around. But to be a mentor? I think I'd rather go with someone like Zach Randolph for 15mpy.

 

[datamanwes]

been down that road all ready. Why do it again? Mason & Fox need to get the bulk of the minutes, not a 3rd string PG, unless it's DC or Ty.

It's to bring in someone with experience in a mentor type role, not to take minutes away from either rookie

 

[kingsboi]

It's to bring in someone with experience in a mentor type role, not to take minutes away from either rookie

There are better options to be had if we are bringing in mentors.

 

[funkykingston]

You're misunderstanding. He/she was suggesting that we need to bring in a Millsap to make sure our young guys are developing meaning that you can't bring in low level veterans, keep the team bad, and develop your young guys all at the same time. That comment had nothing to do with the playoffs.

Nope, not misunderstanding.

I was agreeing with your final paragraph that the Kings have very little chance to make the playoffs.

 

[Iced Espresso]

James Ham suggested we add Jordan Farmar.

He can shoot that's for sure.

Was here a bit before.

Would prefer Beno however.

 

[LA King Fan II]

The team being bad for more than a decade should not change the approach. If the best approach is to stay bad in the short term, then stay bad in the short term. It's as simple as that.

And it's the best approach because you think it is simple as that. Huh?

 

[bajaden]

been down that road all ready. Why do it again? Mason & Fox need to get the bulk of the minutes, not a 3rd string PG, unless it's DC or Ty.

I think you missed the point. Farmar is the type of player that won't take minutes away from Fox or Mason. He'd be the 3rd string guy who only gets emergency or garbage minutes. Also, I thought Farmar played well for us during the exhibition season. You bring in Collison or Lawson, they're going to expect minutes. Yeah, we might lose a lot of games with two rookie PG's getting the bulk of the minutes, but the point of next season is get the rookies experience. If that ends up getting us win's, great! But if not, it doesn't matter.

 

[twslam07]

And it's the best approach because you think it is simple as that. Huh?

Your response makes no sense, so I'm assuming you're not comprehending what I'm saying.

If your best shot at developing a perennial playoff team (and a team that may one day be able to compete for a title) is staying bad in the short term, you stay bad in the short term. You don't get impatient just because the team has been bad for the last decade. That's what is called a knee jerk reaction, emotional response, impulse decision, etc.

 

[ockingsfan]

I think you missed the point. Farmar is the type of player that won't take minutes away from Fox or Mason. He'd be the 3rd string guy who only gets emergency or garbage minutes. Also, I thought Farmar played well for us during the exhibition season. You bring in Collison or Lawson, they're going to expect minutes. Yeah, we might lose a lot of games with two rookie PG's getting the bulk of the minutes, but the point of next season is get the rookies experience. If that ends up getting us win's, great! But if not, it doesn't matter.

I think Vlade chose a point guard in the 2nd round for exactly that reason, to hand over the reigns to Fox, and have a young PG in Mason to be the primary backup.

Vlade had a chance to draft a solid Small Forward like Semi Olejeye or Dillon Brooks or even a PF in Jordan Bell, but he chose a ready to contribute PG at #34.

I think Vlade saw that DC and Lawson would want too much money and PT still and he knew he wanted Fox to get starter type minutes.

Picking up a 3rd point guard, like Udrih, Chalmers, Price or Farmar, makes more sense to the rebuild, than a player like DC and Lawson, who would still want a lot of minutes and may disrupt chemistry, if they don't get it.

 

[Mike]

I am starting to think we roll with the rookie point guards and just add a veteran PG to be the 2nd/3rd point guard. Someone that we can get cheap for the veteran minimum for a 1 or 2 year contract.

There are a couple of veteran point guards that could fill that roll and both have ties to Coach Joeger. If these players are healthy, I would try and sign either Mario Chalmers or Beno Udrih to be a reliable 3rd point guard.

I say we roll with Fox and Mason at Point Guard and add a cheap vet min PG, just in case. DC and Lawson may be too expensive and would take away more PT away from the rookies.

Agreed, we need to hand over the reins to Fox as our starting point guard, then use Mason as our off the bench point guard. I'd be in favour of signing someone like Chalmers or Udrih to play limited minutes at the PG position and help them make the transition from college ball to the pros. A good veteran can help do that.

I think the same can be said for our power forward position. We have Skal and Giles as our young talent. We should add a good veteran PF to play limited minutes and help guide them.

At shooting guard and center we are pretty much set.

So I suspect free agency could see us target a starting small forward. Maybe we bring back Rudy Gay, or target a restricted free agent like Otto Porter, or bring in a solid veteran that can bridge the gap. That's where I'd expect the most money to be spent because it's still a need even though we drafted Jackson.

 

[Suicide King]

I have cooked for a living most of my life, so forgive the following analogy.
If we were to look at a successful playoff run as eating a good meal, right now we are still gathering ingredients. We have some good sides, maybe a steak or lobster(waiting for delivery). Right now we need vets that will season our meal and elevate it. Not vets akin to setting the table because we are ready to eat.

We aren't ready to eat yet.

 

[Jkbiker]

I am ok with a 3rd PG to be there for Garbage time, turned ankle, but still good enough to play backup if needed
Fox - Starter, Mason - Back up, 3rd PG (could even use Temple in a pinch)

For SF , We need a at least a solid back up to compete with JJ and/or back him up off the bench
again 3rd option can be Richardson or Temple

Third PF whatever is left at end of FA

But again we need to wait for salary for picks first , then fill in

 

[pshn80]

Despite the many opinions above that we should not spend much on vets and get vets that are reasonable backups and mentors, I think this emphasis is wrong and not useful for a team developing young players. Spend bucks to get the best vets available at PF, SF and PG maybe easing back a little at PG because we have two capable rooks who are closer to big minute guys. It's best for the team, the coach and rooks that we have quality and real competition. I believe this can be done without spending inordinate bucks. Let's push the players and the opposition. Makes for better, fine tuned team and more quality minutes for our rooks. Spend.

 

[Blob]

After giving this some thought? It obviously wasn't enough thought...

You are entitled to your opinion but you don't have to be rude about it.