Josh Jackson

Blob

Blob

Starter
#61
#61
funkykingston said:
Bender's best skill may be his passing. But yes, I think if Jackson is there the Suns swoop in. But if he goes top 3 I could see Isaac being the pick.

If (and it's a big if) Bledsoe can stay healthy, they could be competetive as soon as next season. Fox would mean a 2-3 years before they can possibly be competitive. How patient is the Suns front office? How patient is their owner? Key questions for this draft.
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This is valid point. The acquisition of Chandler two summers ago was precursor to their hopes of adding Aldridge. They were in win now mode with deep playoff aspirations. The Suns stumbled and bumbled into "rebuild" by missing on free agents and trading Isaiah for scraps. Is the GM on the hot seat? How many sub 30 win seasons he can go through and still have a job? If he is feeling pressure to challenge for playoffs, they may be inclined to keep Bledsoe, pass on Fox.

When and if Jackson goes #3, I could see Tatum as Suns pick as complementary scorer next to Booker. They need scoring help (22nd in offense). But to me the GM McDonough has to go to owner and buy himself time and say look these young guys (19-20 year old Bender Booker and Chriss) are on different timetable than our vets (Chandler, Bledsoe) and best course of action is to build for long term success than grasping at an 8th seed next year. Objectively, the smart thing to do is trade Bledsoe. Whether owner consents or not could influence who they draft.

You could also argue Fox will be able to play 20 MPG at a high level next year. If he can contribute to this degree there is no reason to postponing success as long as there is another PG on the team to provide 20-25 MPG of quality play. The point is the Suns may conclude they can trade Bledsoe, draft Fox, and still compete to respectful level.
 
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The Effort Police

The Effort Police

Starter
#63
#63
I'd be much more receptive to try to move up from #10 rather than move up from #5. I'd do the deal with Minnesota, though at that point it's more about trying to do anything to pick before them because I'm damn sure they're taking Isaac. Might want to talk to Orlando too and see if they bite for #6. And instead of giving up our current young players, I'd try to get a Portland first rounder and make a package for that #6.

At this point, I just might want to take Isaac at 5 anyway, maybe even over Fox. I can't decide actually. If we can get #5 and #6, then we can make off with both potentially.
 
Suicide King

Suicide King

Starter
#64
#64
The Suns have the fourth best overall winning percentage in the league. They have made the playoffs 29 of 49 years. Their GM is entering his last year of his current contract. I am just guessing, but I would wager they feel like competing for the playoffs sooner rather than later.

This ( if true) would lead one to believe they would draft either JJ, Isaac or Tatum, and roll with Bledsoe and Ulis next season. Completely drawing conclusions though. I don't know how many possible suitors for Bledsoe they can find before having to make a decision come draft day.
 
J

Jimbob

Bench
#65
#65
Suicide King said:
The Suns have the fourth best overall winning percentage in the league. They have made the playoffs 29 of 49 years. Their GM is entering his last year of his current contract. I am just guessing, but I would wager they feel like competing for the playoffs sooner rather than later.

This ( if true) would lead one to believe they would draft either JJ, Isaac or Tatum, and roll with Bledsoe and Ulis next season. Completely drawing conclusions though. I don't know how many possible suitors for Bledsoe they can find before having to make a decision come draft day.
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I know some recon Phoenix would take Fox even with Knight and Bledsoe with the idea that they can trade one and Fox is closer to Bookers age. Bledsoe makes 14 mil a year and Knight makes near 13 mil a year which is not chump change considering injury history ..... and Bledsoe is under contract for two more years and Knight 3. So sort of agreeing with you on the practicality of them taking Fox with the 4th.
They may want to trade down to lose one of those contracts but that likely means they are not getting Fox.
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#66
#66
Jimbob said:

I know some recon Phoenix would take Fox even with Knight and Bledsoe with the idea that they can trade one and Fox is closer to Bookers age. Bledsoe makes 14 mil a year and Knight makes near 13 mil a year which is not chump change considering injury history ..... and Bledsoe is under contract for two more years and Knight 3. So sort of agreeing with you on the practicality of them taking Fox with the 4th.
They may want to trade down to lose one of those contracts but that likely means they are not getting Fox.
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That works for me! :D

Pick 4 and Knight for 10 and Afflalo! :D
 
J

Joshoua

All-Star
#67
#67
Blob said:
Jackson to PHX would be great for the Suns. He can run point forward and help get buckets for Bender and Chriss. This is an impressive skill that Jackson possesses. Getting rebound and going, driving and kicking. Tatum has little to no ability in this regard. If PHI passes on Jackson the Suns will be thrilled. Chances are pretty good the 76ers take Jackson, going for BPA over need (Monk).

I can unfortunately see Suns taking Fox and trading Bledsoe. It is unlikely they can find taker for Knight but they can find a trade team for Bledsoe (2 year / 28.5 M). That would free them to draft Fox. Having Fox would be good pairing with Booker and nice set-up man for their young bigs. The Suns could trade Bledsoe to the 76ers (future 1st round pick and Okafor?). That could be positive for both teams.

I don't think keeping Bledsoe makes sense for Suns rebuild. Trading him away frees time for Fox and Ulis. Maybe Knight gets back up minutes at SG behind Booker. I don't know if this is what Suns will do but this is what I'd do if committed to Bender and Chriss and wanted to give them best chance to succeed.
  • Celts - Fultz
  • Lakers - Ball
  • 76ers - Jackson (acquire Bledsoe from PHX)
  • Suns - Fox (trade Bledsoe to PHI)
  • Kings - Isaac
This leaves Kings with the question I proposed week ago: Tatum or Isaac? I think we take Isaac hands down. Don't even get me started on Smith Jr at #5. Not going to happen :p
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Phillybis rumored to have Tatum above Jackson so hopefully if Fox is drafted by Phoenix then Jackson is the one to fall to us
 
kingsfan1984

kingsfan1984

Starter
#68
#68
Ive been all over the place with what we should do in the draft. I agree with Fox if he is there but if not that is where the indecision comes in. Ive come around to the pick should be Isaac or Jackson at 5 if Fox is gone. I want to see WCS Skal and Isaac shut down modern 3pt shooting and pick n roll offenses. They all have the touch and offensive upside to complement their All defensive level D making them plus players ala jimmy butlers.

Then, i thjnk Vlade should do the unpopular move of getting Noah and a 2019 1st to swap with the knicks. I think this is the only deal that would be availabe. No team is going to hand over their pick unless it makes a lot of sense for them and IMO across the line where kings fan say they dont want the deal is where the deal indeed is for both teams. Then its Smith or Frank N. The onlly caveat is if Vlade determins another prospect such as Mitchel or unknown can be the pg
 
roasthawg

roasthawg

Starter
#69
#69
kingsfan1984 said:
Ive been all over the place with what we should do in the draft. I agree with Fox if he is there but if not that is where the indecision comes in. Ive come around to the pick should be Isaac or Jackson at 5 if Fox is gone. I want to see WCS Skal and Isaac shut down modern 3pt shooting and pick n roll offenses. They all have the touch and offensive upside to complement their All defensive level D making them plus players ala jimmy butlers.

Then, i thjnk Vlade should do the unpopular move of getting Noah and a 2019 1st to swap with the knicks. I think this is the only deal that would be availabe. No team is going to hand over their pick unless it makes a lot of sense for them and IMO across the line where kings fan say they dont want the deal is where the deal indeed is for both teams. Then its Smith or Frank N. The onlly caveat is if Vlade determins another prospect such as Mitchel or unknown can be the pg
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I'm pretty much right there with you. Went from wanting Smith if Fox isn't there to Isaac. At ten Frank N. makes a lot of sense if a sf is the pick at #5. If not and it's Fox I think we'll either take Markkanen if he's there or look to move the pick.
 
funkykingston

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#72
#72
Blob said:
The 76ers have had disciplinary issues with Okafor including the nightclub brawl. That could cause them to be more sensitive to Jackson's off-court issues. At least we can hope. ;)
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Yeah, the hope is that the Sixers take Monk or Tatum. Then I'm pretty confident the Suns would nab Jackson and Fox would drop into the Kings lap.
 
biltalent

biltalent

Starter
#73
#73
Jimbob said:
What is it about Kansas, Sacramento, and sliders?
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I actually have a serious theory about this. Does Kansas have more national tv exposure than other teams? Its seems like that from Europe but I dont know if its true. But if so, I think you can make a good argument that Kansas attracts a lot of salient physical imposing athletes that fans / nba draft writers are familiar with because of high exposure. Social psychology tells us that high familiarity / exposure leads to positive evaluation. Also, salience (here exciting physical tools) leads to better memory for the player. As a result, Kansas guys tend to be higher on fan / media draft boards than they should be (see Robinson, Thomas or Mclemore, Ben). Smart teams or teams at the top of the draft recognize this for example after workouts and hence Kansas players slide on draft night. The Kings however are not a smart team and didnt work out the Kansas players, hence on draft night they think they can get a steal by taking them.
 
sidney

sidney

Starter
#74
#74
Čarolija said:
That works for me! :D

Pick 4 and Knight for 10 and Afflalo! :D
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Would be nice for us, but Phoenix is well under the cap, unlikely to sign FA just like us, already disappointed that they dropped draft positions, and desperate for talent. Highly unlikely they trade down to save some money they will have to turn around and try to spend. I still don't think Jackson slides past them.
 
funkykingston

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#75
#75
biltalent said:
I actually have a serious theory about this. Does Kansas have more national tv exposure than other teams? Its seems like that from Europe but I dont know if its true. But if so, I think you can make a good argument that Kansas attracts a lot of salient physical imposing athletes that fans / nba draft writers are familiar with because of high exposure. Social psychology tells us that high familiarity / exposure leads to positive evaluation. Also, salience (here exciting physical tools) leads to better memory for the player. As a result, Kansas guys tend to be higher on fan / media draft boards than they should be (see Robinson, Thomas or Mclemore, Ben). Smart teams or teams at the top of the draft recognize this for example after workouts and hence Kansas players slide on draft night. The Kings however are not a smart team and didnt work out the Kansas players, hence on draft night they think they can get a steal by taking them.
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Wiggins is still up in the air as far as how good a player he can be but I'd say right now he seems slightly disappointing as a #1 pick. If Embiid can stay healthy though, he looks like a stud.

Anyway, I think the reason for Kansas players not living up to expectations is likely far simpler - it's coaching. Bill Self has been the head coach for the last 14 or 15 years and I think he's a terrific coach. His players probably over achieve as he tends to get the most out of them.

Contrast that with Calipari who I think is overrated as a coach. He's possibly the best recruiter but compared with the talent level of his teams they tend to underachieve. I'm sure part of that is loading up every year with one-and-done guys but part of it is also Calipari's somewhat outdated approach. It's why Kentucky guys get to the NBA and show skills that people didn't realize they had.
 
Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

ceterum censeo delendum esse Argentum
Staff member
#77
#77
biltalent said:
Smart teams or teams at the top of the draft recognize this for example after workouts and hence Kansas players slide on draft night. The Kings however are not a smart team and didnt work out the Kansas players, hence on draft night they think they can get a steal by taking them.
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Well, truth be told, the Kings haven't been neglecting to work out players - players have been refusing to work out for Sacramento. There's a fine line to be walked there, and the Kings have taken both sides of it (examples being Robinson and McLemore who didn't work out but were taken, or Mudiay who didn't work out and was passed for WCS who did).
 
biltalent

biltalent

Starter
#78
#78
Capt. Factorial said:
Well, truth be told, the Kings haven't been neglecting to work out players - players have been refusing to work out for Sacramento. There's a fine line to be walked there, and the Kings have taken both sides of it (examples being Robinson and McLemore who didn't work out but were taken, or Mudiay who didn't work out and was passed for WCS who did).
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Yeah that is true. I meant it as two different issues: 1) we simply havent had a competent management and 2) they didnt work out for us because we werent one of highest picking teams. I should have worded it more precisely!
 
biltalent

biltalent

Starter
#79
#79
funkykingston said:
Wiggins is still up in the air as far as how good a player he can be but I'd say right now he seems slightly disappointing as a #1 pick. If Embiid can stay healthy though, he looks like a stud.

Anyway, I think the reason for Kansas players not living up to expectations is likely far simpler - it's coaching. Bill Self has been the head coach for the last 14 or 15 years and I think he's a terrific coach. His players probably over achieve as he tends to get the most out of them.

Contrast that with Calipari who I think is overrated as a coach. He's possibly the best recruiter but compared with the talent level of his teams they tend to underachieve. I'm sure part of that is loading up every year with one-and-done guys but part of it is also Calipari's somewhat outdated approach. It's why Kentucky guys get to the NBA and show skills that people didn't realize they had.
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Ah okay so you're idea is that Kansas attracts worse players but Self puts them in position to shine, but when they get drafted they cant live up to expectations? Yeah that makes sense as well :)
 
2

206Fan

All-Star
#84
#84
steelevt said:
Mike Bresnahan: Laker execs plan to see Kansas SG/SF Josh Jackson work out Thursday in Sacramento, where he’s conducted a majority of his workouts.
– via Twitter Mike_Bresnahan

Is this true? If he's in sac doing his workouts, have we been to one or shouldn't it be easier to get him to workout for us since he's so close?
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That's so strange... the weirdest part is, "where he’s conducted a majority of his workouts." he's already held pre-draft workouts, and no media has had access to them? interesting
 
hrdboild

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#85
#85
That is interesting news. We did have that article last month with quotes from BJ Armstrong (Jackson's agent) about how he really likes Vlade (one of his favorite former teammate) and an earlier article which mentioned how close he is with our new Vice President Scott Perry. I'm guessing if Josh Jackson is working out in Sacramento he's there at the invitation of Vlade and Scott through his agent. Don't know that it means a lot outside of that other than our front office should be more familiar with Josh Jackson than pretty much anyone else in the draft by the time it comes to make a decision which is a very good thing if he actually is on the board at 5. He has some off the court concerns which need to be fully explored but from a basketball point of view he's one of the most complete wing prospects to come along in some time. I would put him in that Paul George/Kawhi Leonard tier as a prospect. It's also ironic that the Lakers have to come to our gym to scout one of the top prospects that they're considering. That might be my favorite random news blurb of the off season so far :)

Ever since we hired Scott Perry the attitude about our front office seems to have taken a complete 180. He has a lot of friends throughout basketball and a lot of experience scouting players. I really hope we find a way to keep him when the GM offers start rolling in from other teams. Keeping Vlade as President and elevating Perry to the title of GM sometime in the near future seems like a logical next step.
 
hrdboild

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#89
#89
biltalent said:
Jackson went to a high school in Napa according to wikipedia. :)
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Throughout the college season I always heard him talked about as a Detroit guy, I didn't realize he moved to Northern California after his sophomore year. He hasn't been discussed much on this board since it would be a coup for him to fall all the way to #5 but he's right up there with Fox on my wishlist. And if he wants to play in Sacramento that makes me want him on the team that much more.
 
roasthawg

roasthawg

Starter
#90
#90
hrdboild said:
Throughout the college season I always heard him talked about as a Detroit guy, I didn't realize he moved to Northern California after his sophomore year. He hasn't been discussed much on this board since it would be a coup for him to fall all the way to #5 but he's right up there with Fox on my wishlist. And if he wants to play in Sacramento that makes me want him on the team that much more.
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It really wouldn't shock me at all if we traded with Philly to take Jackson rather than Fox. I think that's what it would take though... Us trading for the third pick.
 
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