Who do we draft?
- Thread starter Folsomkingsfan
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One of my favorite under the radar prospects is Jacob Wiley, a 22 years-old senior forward from Eastern Washington and MVP of the Big Sky Conference. Because he's playing in the Big Sky, and this is really his only relevant college basketball season, basically no mock draft features him, but I bet NBA scouts do. Here are a few notes if you're interested:
Stats:
34 games, 34 MPG, 20.4 PPG, 9.1 RPG, 2.8 BPG, 0.8 SPG, 2.4 APG, 3.0 TOV, 83FT%, 5/7 from three
Strengths:
- physical tools: good size for a NBA combo forward: 6'8" height, 7'0" wingspan, 8'8" standing reach, 215 pounds
- elite explosiveness and fluidity
- High motor: relentless, prides him self on motor. football background
- upside: not a non shooter: 82% Ft, 5/7 from three. Mechanics look good. Good touch around the rim, fluid with the ball.
- solid feel for the game: passes out of the post, sometimes on the move
- high character, down to earth, well-articulated
Weaknesses:
- too small to play the 5 full time, teams will look to transition him to the 3/4
- perimeter skills still in question: shooting, ball handling, decision making (2.4 assists/3.0 turnovers)
- consistency
- limited time to develop: already 23 years old once he gets to the NBA
Outlook: will impress in workouts. Very productive at the Pourtsmouth Invitational Tournament. Early mid second round pick? Could end up being a valuable rotation backup forward on a good team who brings energy and athleticism.
Stats:
34 games, 34 MPG, 20.4 PPG, 9.1 RPG, 2.8 BPG, 0.8 SPG, 2.4 APG, 3.0 TOV, 83FT%, 5/7 from three
Strengths:
- physical tools: good size for a NBA combo forward: 6'8" height, 7'0" wingspan, 8'8" standing reach, 215 pounds
- elite explosiveness and fluidity
- High motor: relentless, prides him self on motor. football background
- upside: not a non shooter: 82% Ft, 5/7 from three. Mechanics look good. Good touch around the rim, fluid with the ball.
- solid feel for the game: passes out of the post, sometimes on the move
- high character, down to earth, well-articulated
Weaknesses:
- too small to play the 5 full time, teams will look to transition him to the 3/4
- perimeter skills still in question: shooting, ball handling, decision making (2.4 assists/3.0 turnovers)
- consistency
- limited time to develop: already 23 years old once he gets to the NBA
Outlook: will impress in workouts. Very productive at the Pourtsmouth Invitational Tournament. Early mid second round pick? Could end up being a valuable rotation backup forward on a good team who brings energy and athleticism.
Said this a while back somewhere but Fox is a gamer. If he's there, we have to take him. He's the type of confident athlete we've needed for a while. Showed it when he made Ball look silly in the tournament.
I feel the same toward monk but he's much less of a team need imo, especially if we can get bogs to come over
I feel the same toward monk but he's much less of a team need imo, especially if we can get bogs to come over
Here's the thing. If this was last years draft, Smith would probably be top three, maybe top two. And that's despite his flaws. So, he a very good player, and if he shows up with the desire to be a great player, he has all the tools to be just that. But that's the question and I don't have the answer. Only he does. It just bothers me to see a player appear to give up, or at least not put out 100% effort because he thinks his team is going to lose. Now I'm doing a little mind reading here, which may not be the case at all. But I'd love to sit down with him and have him answer some questions. Which, if the Kings work him out, I'm sure they will.
If Smith shows up with desire, and a good work ethic, he could be one of the best players in the class. I had him as the third pick in the draft for a lot of the season.
If Smith shows up with desire, and a good work ethic, he could be one of the best players in the class. I had him as the third pick in the draft for a lot of the season.
I am all for OG if he is medically sound. I was real disappointed when he got hurt for him and for us as I really like him and he was hovering around our 2nd pick preinjury. His defense at the SF position would be great and he takes high percentage shots. In interviews he came off as inteligent with a touch of firey determination.
His former team mate Yogi Ferell (spelling?) tweeted him a Kobe like message after his injury. "Dominate recovery". I hope he has.
His former team mate Yogi Ferell (spelling?) tweeted him a Kobe like message after his injury. "Dominate recovery". I hope he has.
In my mind there are 8 top prospects. Well, really there are 9 but unless Monk shows the ability to run a team he's a terrible fit for the Kings even though I really like him as a player.
Fultz, Jackson, Isaac, Fox, Ball, Tatum, Smith and Ntilikina.
I'm not high on Markkanen at all and while I like Collins he's not a guy I would take over any of the 8 I listed.
So at #8 the Kings will have the ability to draft at least one of the guys I like. Could two or three other players go in the top 9 and push a second one to #10? Maybe. Plenty of mocks currently have guys like Markkanen, Monk, Collins and/or Jarrett in the top 10 range.
Isaac and one of the PGs is my hope. Fox, Ball, Smith or Ntilikina. I'd take any of them.
But I think Baja is right and Isaac will rise up boards after workout. If Fox can show improvement with his jumper he'll very likely be gone before #8 too.
Anunoby was a guy I liked as a freshman. He wasn't showing as much growth as I'd hoped this year before his injury and now he needs to get cleared medically AND show that he can hit shots, handle the ball at least a bit and have some semblance of an offensive game from the wing and not just posting up.
If he can't then he tops out as an Al-Farouq Aminu or Luc Mbah a Moute type player with better physical tools but medical red flags.
On the other hand, if he's used this rehab time to really work on his shot, ballhandling etc then he could be a sleeper in this draft. If the guys I have rated above him are gone and his knee looks good I'd be okay with that pickup.
He and Ntilikina would give the team insane defensive versatility in time.
He and Smith Jr would pair a potentially elite defender with a potentially elite offensive player.
One other thing in OG's favor - as a sophomore he's still younger than Markkanen and Josh Jackson.
The Kings have a very good chance to add teo talented rookies to their young core. Not to mention another shot with their 2nd rounder. Hopefully they get this right.
Fultz, Jackson, Isaac, Fox, Ball, Tatum, Smith and Ntilikina.
I'm not high on Markkanen at all and while I like Collins he's not a guy I would take over any of the 8 I listed.
So at #8 the Kings will have the ability to draft at least one of the guys I like. Could two or three other players go in the top 9 and push a second one to #10? Maybe. Plenty of mocks currently have guys like Markkanen, Monk, Collins and/or Jarrett in the top 10 range.
Isaac and one of the PGs is my hope. Fox, Ball, Smith or Ntilikina. I'd take any of them.
But I think Baja is right and Isaac will rise up boards after workout. If Fox can show improvement with his jumper he'll very likely be gone before #8 too.
Anunoby was a guy I liked as a freshman. He wasn't showing as much growth as I'd hoped this year before his injury and now he needs to get cleared medically AND show that he can hit shots, handle the ball at least a bit and have some semblance of an offensive game from the wing and not just posting up.
If he can't then he tops out as an Al-Farouq Aminu or Luc Mbah a Moute type player with better physical tools but medical red flags.
On the other hand, if he's used this rehab time to really work on his shot, ballhandling etc then he could be a sleeper in this draft. If the guys I have rated above him are gone and his knee looks good I'd be okay with that pickup.
He and Ntilikina would give the team insane defensive versatility in time.
He and Smith Jr would pair a potentially elite defender with a potentially elite offensive player.
One other thing in OG's favor - as a sophomore he's still younger than Markkanen and Josh Jackson.
The Kings have a very good chance to add teo talented rookies to their young core. Not to mention another shot with their 2nd rounder. Hopefully they get this right.
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I dont have the means currently to watch prospects like I would like, limited you tube only. I defer to you, Baja and many others. That said I agree with your list. I REALLY hope we can land Isaac and one of the better PGs. I would feel extatic moving forward.
OG is just a fall back option for me at this point. One I would be happy with. The Ntilikina OG pairing you mentioned would be great. Look at how the length and smothering defense of the Bucks is giving the Raptors fits. Ntilikina OG Skal Willie Buddy might be something else on defense.
OG is just a fall back option for me at this point. One I would be happy with. The Ntilikina OG pairing you mentioned would be great. Look at how the length and smothering defense of the Bucks is giving the Raptors fits. Ntilikina OG Skal Willie Buddy might be something else on defense.
I think he'll be best as a backup 4 when teams go small. Thats the appeal with him, that he has the potential on D to protect the rim from the weakside a bit, switch pnrs, and on offense you hope than he can knock down 30%+ of his threes, maybe attack a closeout here and there. Kind of like a lesser version of Aaron Gordon.
Im fairly confident Markkanen won't be there at 10. His offensive upside and big man shooting ability is going to be tantalizing to teams like Minnesota/Philly/Dallas or even NY for them to pass on him. I think Monk will fall into that exact same boat too; they're getting really exciting prospects while addressing their huge need of adding shooting to their roster. Both guys are rated highly on my big board ( 5 and 6), but I do agree both are sketchy fits with the young guys we already have.
Here's my question though. What happens if we grab a PG at 10 and say Ntilkina is still available at 10? It creates some really exciting back-court in the future, but could a Fox/Ntilkina/Hield rotation work?
Here's my question though. What happens if we grab a PG at 10 and say Ntilkina is still available at 10? It creates some really exciting back-court in the future, but could a Fox/Ntilkina/Hield rotation work?
I do think Monk will go early. In my mind I've had him slotted to Philly (with their pick if they don't jump to the top 3 or LA's if it gets pushed to 4th or 5th) as he just makes a ton of sense if they really intend to let Simmons run the offense.
I'm less sure on Markkanen. He also makes a bunch of sense for Philly. If the Sixers ended up with the 5th & 6th picks then Markkanen & Monk could really space the floor for Simmons & Embiid and make Saric a great 6th man.
Markkanen makes sense for Minnesota to open things up for Wiggins & KAT but I struggle to see Thibs drafting a weak defending big.
I think Markkanen to Dallas gets pushed because it makes for a good story with him replacing Dirk but the Mavs need a starting quality PG more and Barnes seems best suited as a smallball 4 anyway.
We'll see on Markkanen.
But I've also thought about what happens if the Kings take Fox or Smith at 8 and Ntilikina is still on the board at 10. If Isaac is already gone then I say you take Ntilikina and let them fight it out to be the PG of the future.
I'm less sure on Markkanen. He also makes a bunch of sense for Philly. If the Sixers ended up with the 5th & 6th picks then Markkanen & Monk could really space the floor for Simmons & Embiid and make Saric a great 6th man.
Markkanen makes sense for Minnesota to open things up for Wiggins & KAT but I struggle to see Thibs drafting a weak defending big.
I think Markkanen to Dallas gets pushed because it makes for a good story with him replacing Dirk but the Mavs need a starting quality PG more and Barnes seems best suited as a smallball 4 anyway.
We'll see on Markkanen.
But I've also thought about what happens if the Kings take Fox or Smith at 8 and Ntilikina is still on the board at 10. If Isaac is already gone then I say you take Ntilikina and let them fight it out to be the PG of the future.
If he didn't bust his knee (ACL), I could really get behind the idea of OG Anunoby at #10. He looks like a dirty work and hustle guy scratching surface of what he can do offensively. His defense is potentially 1st team All-NBA. I think his power and length would complement the Thin Towers on frontline perhaps more so than Isaac. Not that OG is the better overall but what he would bring would be better for our team and needs. OG has a ferociousness to his game. I think he will be able to play both forward spots and defend inside and perimeter. How many guys can you say that about?! He has same length as Giannis but if you look how his body changed from prep to college he put on lot of muscle, so he looks stronger than Giannis.
Tearing your ACL in 2017 is not the same as in 2010, with advanced surgical and post surgical procedures, and certainly "better" at age 20 than age 30, but still there is loss of explosion, loss of lateral mobility, and it takes time to get the trust back in the stability of the knee. While he may be cleared to play by training camp, he is probably going to miss summer league. Then you are talking about a full season more or less before he gets that trust. So you would be drafting a guy with another unknown on top of inherent unknowns in terms of success of his rehab. Its tough. But if you really love what he can do, relative to other options, perhaps you roll the dice.
In regards to your pairings above, if the Kings really love Smith, then Smith and OG makes sense to add a potential offense force and defense force while filling two primary positional needs. But you are also talking about taking two guys with ACL tears. Yikes.
Tearing your ACL in 2017 is not the same as in 2010, with advanced surgical and post surgical procedures, and certainly "better" at age 20 than age 30, but still there is loss of explosion, loss of lateral mobility, and it takes time to get the trust back in the stability of the knee. While he may be cleared to play by training camp, he is probably going to miss summer league. Then you are talking about a full season more or less before he gets that trust. So you would be drafting a guy with another unknown on top of inherent unknowns in terms of success of his rehab. Its tough. But if you really love what he can do, relative to other options, perhaps you roll the dice.
In regards to your pairings above, if the Kings really love Smith, then Smith and OG makes sense to add a potential offense force and defense force while filling two primary positional needs. But you are also talking about taking two guys with ACL tears. Yikes.
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And just going through depth charts a bit and projecting team needs, there really is a realistic chance
I do think all 3 could work as a rotation (Ntil/Fox/Buddy) as I have a lot of confidence in Ntilikina's ability to still be a contributor off-ball with his length and defensive activity. The fact that he has upside as a playmaker too is just gravy; I want as many on the floor as possible.
I do think all 3 could work as a rotation (Ntil/Fox/Buddy) as I have a lot of confidence in Ntilikina's ability to still be a contributor off-ball with his length and defensive activity. The fact that he has upside as a playmaker too is just gravy; I want as many on the floor as possible.
DX said a Greek prospect named Antonis Koniaris declared for the draft. They don't have any information about him at all. Curiosity made me end up watching 4 full games+5 half games+1 video scouting report.. small sample size, but he could be a good draft candidate. Very underrated.
PG Antonis Koniaris
Physical Profile:
However, when he was given a lot more freedom, he flashed a ton of potential. His 3pt shot is very quick and fluid. He can shoot with on ball screens, off ball screens, and off the catch. He's able to penetrate using his dribbles and quickness. He shows the ability to split defenders and get inside the paint. As a finisher, it's hard to get a grasp of him there. He just doesn't get many opportunities to take his man off the dribble. When he does, he either passes the ball or attacks all the way. He's shown touch around the rim, and if you pair that with his quickness, there's nothing that makes me think he can't be a good finisher. He does show a mini floater in the mid-range, and something he tries to do is get in the mid of the paint, stop, and lean into the defender to draw a foul. It doesn't look like he has a developed middle game yet. He does a good overall job of creating his own shot.
PG Skills? He's a good ball handler with solid playmaking skills. He plays really unselfish and looks to make the simple passes. He shows some understanding of PnR which is going to be big for the NBA.
Defense. He has good lateral quickness, and good overall size for a PG. He can read passing lanes well, and intercept the ball. However, things turn kinda cold for him. He'll need to pick up good defensive fundamentals for the NBA. He gets caught flat footed at times, which allows the ball handler to blow by him. When he's guarding off-ball, he gets stuck up on screens and loses his man. He'll get hung up on a screen and doesn't recover quick enough, or even completely lose his man. My biggest issue with him is his effort. It seems inconsistent on this end. When being screened, he doesn't consistently fight through the picks, and that's something that ranges from play to play. On the other hand, when he's 100% tuned in and focused(without being caught flat-footed), he plays lock down perimeter defense. He has the quickness to shuffle in front of any guard. He doesn't bite on fakes, and does a very good job of contesting them. He likes to play physical when he's down low.
Defense becomes a really mixed bag for him. However, he has the tools to become an above average-good defender in the NBA.
Again, this is based on a really small sample size. He played in 47 games, and I only watched 4 full games. I also watched an extra 5 games where I just skipped to his offensive scoring possessions to try to get a better feel for him as a scorer. On Paok, he just wasn't able to play freely. When they did allow him to play with more freedom, he looked like he could become something special. Everything looks good from a physical standpoint. He can handle the ball, facilitate, and pass. He can play off-ball and knows how to get himself open at the 3pt line. He has the quickness and ball handling to drive all the way to the rim. His lateral quickness on D paired with his solid frame gives him good upside on D.
Maybe I'm drooling over someone who will go completely undrafted, but I think he can become something special. His game looks like it's more suited for the NBA where PGs get to dominate the ball. Yeah this is a lot of information... but I initially wrote this as my own personal scouting report. Believe it or not, the one I have has more info... so sorry that it's extremely long, and my thoughts fly all over the page. After writing the report, I felt like I should share him here and tweaked the report. Plus, he was Papagiannis' teammate.
PG Antonis Koniaris
- 19 yearsold, turns 20 in September
- 6'4 190lbs with an unknown wingspan(maybe 6'5)
- Was on the same team with Papagiannis last year, but unfortunate injuries have held him back the past 2 years. He switched teams, and now he's played a full year.
- 3.82 points/ 1.78 assists/ 2.16 rebounds / 0.84 steals / 1.44 turnovers
- 34.5% FG / 32.2% 3pt / 80% FT
- 2PTM-A: 0.71-1.94
- 3PTM-A: 0.62-1.93
- FTM-A: 0.53-0.67
- 2PTM-A: 0.71-1.94
- Good size
- Average length
- Good quickness (on ball, changing directions, attacking)
- Good lateral quickness (side to side, defense)
- Average leaping ability
Strengths Offense:- Average length
- Good quickness (on ball, changing directions, attacking)
- Good lateral quickness (side to side, defense)
- Average leaping ability
- Good 3pt shooter
- Good ball handler
- Good off-ball player
- Playmaking
- Passing ability
- Driving ability/Penetration
- Good IQ
Strengths Defense:- Good ball handler
- Good off-ball player
- Playmaking
- Passing ability
- Driving ability/Penetration
- Good IQ
- Good lateral quickness
- Good size for PG
- Physicalness/toughness
- Reading passing lanes
Weakness Offense: - Good size for PG
- Physicalness/toughness
- Reading passing lanes
- Finishing ability at the rim?
- Inconsistencies?
Weakness Defense:- Inconsistencies?
- Poor off-ball defender
- Inconsistent effort
- Can become flat-footed
Scouting Euro guys is always more difficult even with lots of film availability. With young players, they have tighter leashes and we're limited in seeing what they can do. Despite having poor shooting % and numbers, they're not reflective of him as a player. He's had an inconsistent game to game role with the team. Koniaris played some games a starter, and others as a bench player. With the 4 games I've watched, he played most of his minutes as their PG. In general, Koniaris wasn't asked to do much on offense at all. He would usually just bring the ball up, set up the offense, then become an off-ball player.- Inconsistent effort
- Can become flat-footed
However, when he was given a lot more freedom, he flashed a ton of potential. His 3pt shot is very quick and fluid. He can shoot with on ball screens, off ball screens, and off the catch. He's able to penetrate using his dribbles and quickness. He shows the ability to split defenders and get inside the paint. As a finisher, it's hard to get a grasp of him there. He just doesn't get many opportunities to take his man off the dribble. When he does, he either passes the ball or attacks all the way. He's shown touch around the rim, and if you pair that with his quickness, there's nothing that makes me think he can't be a good finisher. He does show a mini floater in the mid-range, and something he tries to do is get in the mid of the paint, stop, and lean into the defender to draw a foul. It doesn't look like he has a developed middle game yet. He does a good overall job of creating his own shot.
PG Skills? He's a good ball handler with solid playmaking skills. He plays really unselfish and looks to make the simple passes. He shows some understanding of PnR which is going to be big for the NBA.
Defense. He has good lateral quickness, and good overall size for a PG. He can read passing lanes well, and intercept the ball. However, things turn kinda cold for him. He'll need to pick up good defensive fundamentals for the NBA. He gets caught flat footed at times, which allows the ball handler to blow by him. When he's guarding off-ball, he gets stuck up on screens and loses his man. He'll get hung up on a screen and doesn't recover quick enough, or even completely lose his man. My biggest issue with him is his effort. It seems inconsistent on this end. When being screened, he doesn't consistently fight through the picks, and that's something that ranges from play to play. On the other hand, when he's 100% tuned in and focused(without being caught flat-footed), he plays lock down perimeter defense. He has the quickness to shuffle in front of any guard. He doesn't bite on fakes, and does a very good job of contesting them. He likes to play physical when he's down low.
Defense becomes a really mixed bag for him. However, he has the tools to become an above average-good defender in the NBA.
Again, this is based on a really small sample size. He played in 47 games, and I only watched 4 full games. I also watched an extra 5 games where I just skipped to his offensive scoring possessions to try to get a better feel for him as a scorer. On Paok, he just wasn't able to play freely. When they did allow him to play with more freedom, he looked like he could become something special. Everything looks good from a physical standpoint. He can handle the ball, facilitate, and pass. He can play off-ball and knows how to get himself open at the 3pt line. He has the quickness and ball handling to drive all the way to the rim. His lateral quickness on D paired with his solid frame gives him good upside on D.
Maybe I'm drooling over someone who will go completely undrafted, but I think he can become something special. His game looks like it's more suited for the NBA where PGs get to dominate the ball. Yeah this is a lot of information... but I initially wrote this as my own personal scouting report. Believe it or not, the one I have has more info... so sorry that it's extremely long, and my thoughts fly all over the page. After writing the report, I felt like I should share him here and tweaked the report. Plus, he was Papagiannis' teammate.
Upside as playmaker is not "gravy" it is requisite of playing PG. Whether the guy is combo guard or not. I do agree a three guard rotation of Buddy / Fox / Frank would be enticing but odds we can get both of those guys are next to nil. Fox has John Wall ability as scorer and harassing defender. Why would any right minded GM take Ball with his fragile physique and soft gambling defense and throw ahead passes before he gets into teeth of defense over a guy who attacks? And why would any right minded GM be sold on Ball and his ugly jumper and prima donna father?! Every player in draft is a matter of probabilities so no one can say definitively Ball is going to succeed or fail. But I say definitively the concerns on Ball carry as much or more weight as any player projected to go as high as #1 #2 or #3 in recent memory. For this reason and other appealing prospects he is unlikely to be picked Top 3 despite what mostly worthless mocks want us to think.
Well, that wasn't exactly my point. I mean, time will tell whether you're right about Ball or not. I was more struck by the fact that you replied to two different posts that were not about Ball at all, and spent basically the entirety of the two replies saying how much you don't like Ball. If any post about the draft that doesn't even mention Ball is enough for you to go off on how much you don't like him, that's "too much" in my book - even if Ball turns out a bust.
Yeah, it will be great if Ball drops - all the way to #8. The Kings would finally have a point guard worth mentioning. It makes sense to me that Fox will rise prior to the draft and Ball will fall, not because of post season performance, but because speed, quickness and jumping ability are "measurables" in the workouts whereas BBIQ and court vision are not, hence skewing the results. The fact that Ball could drop out of the top 3 would put something in play that I didn't previously think possible - a possible trade up by the Kings to nab him. Based on the players he's drafted and based on his own career I find it hard to believe that Divac doesn't weigh BBIQ heavily in his analysis of draft prospects.
The post was tangentially about Ball. Hypothetically drafting Fox at #8 and Frank #10 includes Ball being picked higher. This scenario is interesting but far fetched given my projection not only won't Fox slide to #8 he is more likely to be picked at #2 or #3 before Ball. I don't care what mocks say two months before draft with history as our guide and substantial evidence to contrary of consensus. Regardless I don't limit myself when I hit reply to a post to respond exclusively to content of said post. Forums like this are digital conversations. Conversations evolve tangentially. If you do not like the style of "conversations" I tend to have and loose rules to which I adhere, you are welcome to "ignore" me with one click. Your loss.
Of course Vlade places high value on BBIQ. I would expect he would also place high value on being able to challenge (stop) dribble penetration and have physique and physicality to meet demands of PG position. As far as "having a PG worth mentioning" none of the accolades and accomplishments collegiately mean a damn thing if it does not translate. We need look no further than Jimmer Fredette for evidence of this.
Regardless I don't limit myself when I hit reply to a post to respond exclusively to content of said post. Forums like this are digital conversations. Conversations evolve tangentially. If you do not like the style of "conversations" I tend to have and loose rules to which I adhere, you are welcome to "ignore" me with one click. Your loss.
Besides, my personal policy as a mod is not to "ignore" anybody so I can keep a full eye on what is going on.As a poster, however, I reserve my right to make snarky comments about what other people post, and you definitely fall into the category of "other people". I mean, I think you do. You're not some sort of robot or AI or a superintelligent cat with thumbs, are you?
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