The art and agony of the tank (split from game thread)

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KingsFanGER

KingsFanGER

Starter
#91
#91
jpsls said:
It's easy to say Kings should have traded DMC prior to the start of the season, but you also have to consider season ticket holders. How many people would have purchased tickets with the roster the Kings have now?
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I agree. For me that's the main thing here. They didn't want to open the arena with a full scale rebuild. They wanted to sign Joerger, but Joerger wasn't on board with a rebuild. Signing a respected NBA coach is a lot easier, when you already have some components in place.
They pulled the chair under their season ticket holders and they pulled the chair under Joerger (although I'm guilty of speculating in this case, because we will probably never know, what role Joerger played in the trade).
It's either a panic move and complete lack of foresight or actually really bad and "immoral" business behaviour.

Btw. did they pull the trigger on the trade, before people needed to renew their season tickets for 2017/18?
 
J

jpsls

Bench
#92
#92
KingsFanGER said:
I agree. For me that's the main thing here. They didn't want to open the arena with a full scale rebuild. They wanted to sign Joerger, but Joerger wasn't on board with a rebuild. Signing a respected NBA coach is a lot easier, when you already have some components in place.
They pulled the chair under their season ticket holders and they pulled the chair under Joerger (although I'm guilty of speculating in this case, because we will probably never know, what role Joerger played in the trade).
It's either a panic move and complete lack of foresight or actually really bad and "immoral" business behaviour.

Btw. did they pull the trigger on the trade, before people needed to renew their season tickets for 2017/18?
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As far as I can remember, season ticket renewals occurred before the trade, although I'm not sure if the Kings are taking cancellations.
 
P

pshn80

Starter
#94
#94
206Fan said:
Lotto system is actually good. Every lotto team has a chance at the #1 pick, and there's no teams that have their spots guaranteed. Other teams are just smarter than the Kings. They know how to use the system to their advantage.

If we got rid of the lotto, do you think ANY nba prospects would actually come here? Kings are a dysfunctional mess and nothing is changing that narrative. I mean just look at last year. We had the 8th overall pick, and we seriously were only able to bring in 1...one top 30 player in for a workout. That's horrific...to say the least.
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Do I think.......... ? Yes, I think players would come to Sacramento and those that didn't would not mss the chance because we are dysfunctional. The "disfunctional" gig s way, way over blown. For me as a fan the"incentive to lose" aspect of the lottery system is the more significant downer.
 
Kingsfan23

Kingsfan23

All-Star
#95
#95
KingsFanGER said:
I agree. For me that's the main thing here. They didn't want to open the arena with a full scale rebuild. They wanted to sign Joerger, but Joerger wasn't on board with a rebuild. Signing a respected NBA coach is a lot easier, when you already have some components in place.
They pulled the chair under their season ticket holders and they pulled the chair under Joerger (although I'm guilty of speculating in this case, because we will probably never know, what role Joerger played in the trade).
It's either a panic move and complete lack of foresight or actually really bad and "immoral" business behaviour.

Btw. did they pull the trigger on the trade, before people needed to renew their season tickets for 2017/18?
Click to expand...
I think Joerger wanted a multi year deal at several million, that was his one of his main motivation at the time. He was making a pittance and had only one year guaranteed with Memphis. I don't think he was picky

I also think Joerger knew that if this thing didn't clearly get off the ground with Cousins that a rebuild was in order. That was the nature of the Kings situation. They had to trade him at last deadline to get value for him. He may disagree with the thing not getting off the ground but he knew the circumstances, and knew the possibility IMO
 
jcassio

jcassio

Starter
#96
#96
KingsFanGER said:
I don't believe that. I'm still quite convinced of my scapegoat theory, but we will never know.
But let's assume you are right - isn't that pretty naive? I mean DMC is in his 7th year. You pretty much know he is a hothead by now. Making plans for the future built on a drastic change of behaviour of a grown man, without enforcing the change by making some sort of psychological treatment mandatory to move forward, only to act suprised and panic when this change of behaviour doesn't happen? Not only that, but to really **** up things, you also sign one of the biggest misfits of the league as your locker room leader and role model?
Well ok - that's some well thought out plan right? ;)
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Assuming one can change the "behaviour of a grown man" is what makes so many marriages special.
 
upinsmoke

upinsmoke

All-Star
#97
#97
Kingsfan23 said:
I think Joerger wanted a multi year deal at several million, that was his one of his main motivation at the time. He was making a pittance and had only one year guaranteed with Memphis. I don't think he was picky

I also think Joerger knew that if this thing didn't clearly get off the ground with Cousins that a rebuild was in order. That was the nature of the Kings situation. They had to trade him at last deadline to get value for him. He may disagree with the thing not getting off the ground but he knew the circumstances, and knew the possibility IMO
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Your not implying that money is the driving force behind professional sports are you:D?
 
ockingsfan

ockingsfan

Starter
#98
#98
Kingsfan23 said:
I think Joerger wanted a multi year deal at several million, that was his one of his main motivation at the time. He was making a pittance and had only one year guaranteed with Memphis. I don't think he was picky

I also think Joerger knew that if this thing didn't clearly get off the ground with Cousins that a rebuild was in order. That was the nature of the Kings situation. They had to trade him at last deadline to get value for him. He may disagree with the thing not getting off the ground but he knew the circumstances, and knew the possibility IMO
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I agree.

I think Joeger knew that a DMC trade was a possibility when he signed on the dotted line. Joeger definitely didn't seem as mad or surprised after the DMC trade, as he was even last year, when Courtney Lee was traded at the deadline, when he was the Memphis coach.
 
KingsFanGER

KingsFanGER

Starter
#100
#100
Kingsfan23 said:
I think Joerger wanted a multi year deal at several million, that was his one of his main motivation at the time. He was making a pittance and had only one year guaranteed with Memphis. I don't think he was picky

I also think Joerger knew that if this thing didn't clearly get off the ground with Cousins that a rebuild was in order. That was the nature of the Kings situation. They had to trade him at last deadline to get value for him. He may disagree with the thing not getting off the ground but he knew the circumstances, and knew the possibility IMO
Click to expand...
Joerger is a well respected Nba coach. He could afford to be picky and he took the job with the Kings, because the main pieces were already in place. That's not an assumption, thats pretty much exactly what he said.

Was he aware, that a rebuild could be a possibility. I think so, but I doubt the Kings told him before the season, that they would rebuild, when playoffs would be within reach and the team clearly was making progress.
 
Kingsfan23

Kingsfan23

All-Star
#101
#101
KingsFanGER said:
Joerger is a well respected Nba coach. He could afford to be picky and he took the job with the Kings, because the main pieces were already in place. That's not an assumption, thats pretty much exactly what he said.

Was he aware, that a rebuild could be a possibility. I think so, but I doubt the Kings told him before the season, that they would rebuild, when playoffs would be within reach and the team clearly was making progress.
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I think he took the job with the Kings perhaps because he liked the pieces, and perhaps they were one of the only ones sly enough to negotiate with him when he was already under contract
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#103
#103
Spike said:
Then they should have known that they couldn't have pulled off a successful tank this year unless they traded DMC at the start. It made no sense to surround him with vets, only to try to tank with vets later in the year, especially after having survived the hardest part of the schedule. 1.5 games back when DMC was traded?That, to me, shows lack of smarts and effort, and they fully deserve the results of this "tank".
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You totally win this thread. If you look to the origins of this farce it starts with the timing of the Cousins trade. The terrible timing of the trade at mid-season added to a team of mediocre vets plus rookies set this team up for a mediocre tank.

And maybe Divac actually wanted a mediocre tank. Why? Because the Philly trade that allows for Philly to swap picks with the Kings puts Divac in a perverted position where he really doesn't want the Kings to get a top three pick. Think about the fan reaction if the Kings actually won the #1 pick? And then it's bye bye to that #1 when Philly swaps to get it and sends the Kings a #6 or #7. If that's not a guarantee for termination I don't know what is. Divac has had a personal incentive to have a mediocre draft position ever since he agreed to the swap condition on the Philly trade.
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#104
#104
jpsls said:
It's easy to say Kings should have traded DMC prior to the start of the season, but you also have to consider season ticket holders. How many people would have purchased tickets with the roster the Kings have now?
Click to expand...
Aren't season tickets renewed well prior to the season starting. As in renewals have started happening a couple of months ago for next season.
 
allrightythen

allrightythen

Starter
#105
#105
I hate tanking. It sucks watching your team suck and its even worse when they lose on purpose. That's probably part of the reason I hated the Cousins trade, but no one should really be surprised that the tank started this year. Looking at the moves from last off-season I see a team that wanted to try and "win-now" with veterans but they certainly weren't fully committed to it. The vet contracts were largely short-term with options (Afflalo, Tolliver, Barnes), and we ended up trading for 2 additional 1st rounders and another foreign prospect. I think they put together a veteran team because they wanted to win but kept it short-term and added lots of young pieces so they had ammunition for help if it worked and they were competitive, or young potential if it didn't and they decided to rebuild.
 
King Baller

King Baller

All-Star
#109
#109
OK, I will admit it:) I'm kind of excited that the Kings will get TWO (hopefully) 1st round draft picks in a good draft year:D And they own Philly's 2nd round draft pick outright.

Think about this. What if 3 good young players are added to what we are already seeing? I'm thinking this could be the start of something good:)

Plus we finally put that damned Hickson/Casspi trade to bed by sending the Bulls the Kings own 2nd round pick.
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#110
#110
King Baller said:
OK, I will admit it:) I'm kind of excited that the Kings will get TWO (hopefully) 1st round draft picks in a good draft year:D And they own Philly's 2nd round draft pick outright.

Think about this. What if 3 good young players are added to what we are already seeing? I'm thinking this could be the start of something good:)

Plus we finally put that damned Hickson/Casspi trade to bed by sending the Bulls the Kings own 2nd round pick.
Click to expand...
Any time you are getting two top 10 picks and a very early second round pick, you should be excited because it gives you a chance to pick up 2 or 3 talented players. The hope of course is that the two top 10 picks land you a franchise level player, and an All-Star level player or at least two all star level players.

That is the hope that rebuilding teams have. They always pin their hopes that they strike it big and that will continue until eventually they strike it big.
 
J

Jimbob

Bench
#111
#111
King Baller said:
OK, I will admit it:) I'm kind of excited that the Kings will get TWO (hopefully) 1st round draft picks in a good draft year:D And they own Philly's 2nd round draft pick outright.

Think about this. What if 3 good young players are added to what we are already seeing? I'm thinking this could be the start of something good:)

Plus we finally put that damned Hickson/Casspi trade to bed by sending the Bulls the Kings own 2nd round pick.
Click to expand...
Good point. Lost in all the ping pong ball drama is the fact we should never have to lament about that crippling Petrie trade again.
 
hrdboild

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#112
#112
King Baller said:
OK, I will admit it:) I'm kind of excited that the Kings will get TWO (hopefully) 1st round draft picks in a good draft year:D And they own Philly's 2nd round draft pick outright.

Think about this. What if 3 good young players are added to what we are already seeing? I'm thinking this could be the start of something good:)

Plus we finally put that damned Hickson/Casspi trade to bed by sending the Bulls the Kings own 2nd round pick.
Click to expand...
Appropriate then that Casspi was traded again as a means of ensuring that we would keep the pick we originally sent to Cleveland when we traded him the first time. :)

Two top 10 picks this year could be huge for us. As much as I've been fretting about the draft order, taking a step back there's not much to be upset about there. We just need to make the most of the picks that we have. I'm pretty excited too. Having two lottery picks gives us a lot to talk about for the next 3 months.
 
J

Jimbob

Bench
#113
#113
Yeah, I'm even watching more Dennis Smith Jr. videos just in case he's one of our picks. That injury history concerns me but the kid does have a swagger.

The Wolves beating Portland today helped mellow me as well.
 
J

Jimbob

Bench
#115
#115
Denver putting up a good fight vs NO. showing some incentive to win especially seeing Utah is currently handling Portland. NY looking like they will pull the win as well.
 
kupman

kupman

Starter
#116
#116
pshn80 said:
Do I think.......... ? Yes, I think players would come to Sacramento and those that didn't would not mss the chance because we are dysfunctional. The "disfunctional" gig s way, way over blown. For me as a fan the"incentive to lose" aspect of the lottery system is the more significant downer.
Click to expand...
Agreed - especially on the incentive to lose point.

If you are a player or coach that is caught betting on NBA games, I am pretty sure you will no longer be a part of the league. Even if you are not betting on your own games. Why? Because it messes with the integrity of the game.

I do not see how tanking to improve your gambling chances in the lottery is any different or better. In fact, I think that it is significantly worse. I'm actually really surprised that this incentive has been allowed to exist as long as it has.
 
fansinceday1

fansinceday1

Starter
#119
#119
This mavs win really feels like the niners dec 24th 1 pt win over the rams which effectively screwed us out of myles garrett who will be a superstar.

Oh well. Im not fretting anymore. HAHA! Win out fellas! screw it.............
 
2

206Fan

All-Star
#120
#120
fansinceday1 said:
This mavs win really feels like the niners dec 24th 1 pt win over the rams which effectively screwed us out of myles garrett who will be a superstar.

Oh well. Im not fretting anymore. HAHA! Win out fellas! screw it.............
Click to expand...
LOL that 9ers win man.

Kings just continue to screw themselves over.
 
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