The art and agony of the tank (split from game thread)

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#1
I can't believe we won this game. What a disaster. We are probably going to win as many games as last year with a full year of our HOF'er DMC.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Contributor
#2
Carmichael Dave‏Verified account@CarmichaelDave 36m36 minutes ago

I'm sorry, but a road win against Minnesota at this point of the season is completely and utterly worthless

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‏@Vladefan21

Replying to @CarmichaelDave
I don't think the players feel that way. And WCS just said as much. Blame Vlade. He should have dumped ALL the vets for a good tank.

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Carmichael Dave‏Verified account@CarmichaelDave 9m9 minutes ago

Agreed. I've said twice tonight: I don't blame the players ONE BIT. Good for them. Doing what they're paid to do

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Grant Napear‏Verified account@GrantNapearshow 5m5 minutes ago
Grant Napear Retweeted Christine Gillespie

You don't know what the hell you're talking about! Koufos..Temple and Evans didn't play tonight. Blame Vlade? Good lord!

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‏@Vladefan21

Replying to @GrantNapearshow
I'm arguing with people who WANT THE KINGS TO LOSE and are mad about tonight's game. I do what I'm talking about. I'm glad they won.

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Grant Napear‏Verified account@GrantNapearshow 4m4 minutes ago
My bad. Sorry

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‏@Vladefan21

Replying to @CarmichaelDave
Please tell @GrantNapearshow to quit yelling at me. :)

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Grant Napear‏Verified account@GrantNapearshow 3m3 minutes ago
Hahahaha

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I think I may be the only person around who has been bullied by Grant Napear without ever calling his show. I should call on Monday...

Score so far:
VF21 - 2
Howdy Doody - 0
 
#4
Don't be excited. That's your choice. But why does it bother you so much if some of us are kinda happy to see the kids playing their hearts out? In all honesty, I seriously doubt if any of us rooting for them from our living rooms made them play harder.

Kingsfans.com is a fan community, where people come (or at least used to) to watch the games together, to share the enjoyment, to pretend for just a couple of hours we're sitting together in the arena instead of spread clear across the globe.

I don't want a coach who coaches to lose. He's sitting players, and he's putting the kids in pretty uncomfortable situations. These kids AREN'T LOSERS. They're in the NBA because they've worked hard all of their lives to reach this level. They compete and play their hearts out and they deserve to be treated accordingly. You never pull somebody because they're playing too well unless you want to destroy their spirit.

/end rant
It does not bother me at all that some fans are happy to see the Kings win regardless the consequence of the win. I'm probably one of the least likely posters to question anyone's thoughts or feelings about this game and hope others reciprocate.

True I can't get excited about this win as I think we are seeing plenty of teams tanking down the stretch and when you play one of them I would rather cash in on benefit of the lose. These young players know we appreciate their effort and they are building plenty of confidence and camaraderie regardless.
 
#5
Carmichael Dave‏Verified account@CarmichaelDave 36m36 minutes ago

I'm sorry, but a road win against Minnesota at this point of the season is completely and utterly worthless

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‏@Vladefan21

Replying to @CarmichaelDave
I don't think the players feel that way. And WCS just said as much. Blame Vlade. He should have dumped ALL the vets for a good tank.

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Carmichael Dave‏Verified account@CarmichaelDave 9m9 minutes ago

Agreed. I've said twice tonight: I don't blame the players ONE BIT. Good for them. Doing what they're paid to do

----------------------------------------------

Grant Napear‏Verified account@GrantNapearshow 5m5 minutes ago
Grant Napear Retweeted Christine Gillespie

You don't know what the hell you're talking about! Koufos..Temple and Evans didn't play tonight. Blame Vlade? Good lord!

---------------------------------------------
‏@Vladefan21

Replying to @GrantNapearshow
I'm arguing with people who WANT THE KINGS TO LOSE and are mad about tonight's game. I do what I'm talking about. I'm glad they won.

-----------------------------------------------

Grant Napear‏Verified account@GrantNapearshow 4m4 minutes ago
My bad. Sorry

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‏@Vladefan21

Replying to @CarmichaelDave
Please tell @GrantNapearshow to quit yelling at me. :)

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Grant Napear‏Verified account@GrantNapearshow 3m3 minutes ago
Hahahaha

-----------------------------

I think I may be the only person around who has been bullied by Grant Napear without ever calling his show. I should call on Monday...

Score so far:
VF21 - 2
Howdy Doody - 0
Lol he said he was sorry
 

Warhawk

The cake is a lie.
Staff member
Contributor
#7
Didn't watch last night's game. Doubt I will watch this one. Can't stand watching a team that isn't trying it's hardest to win. That keeps getting rid of all-stars for peanuts. That can't figure out how to build a team that can compete without sabotaging it along the way.

Better I just watch something else and hope, like I have for the last decade and a half, that things might get better next year. What a lousy way to feel as a fan....
....and what the hell do I know? Guess i should have watched the game!
 
#8
Although I would had preferred a loss tonight, our floor for the draft is really philly. No matter how many we win, as long as we stay in the bottom 8 and one win in front of philly, that is our best case scenario.

If we lose and philly passes us in the draft order, philly gets the higher pick anyways.

Enjoy the win guys, but Dallas is a must lose now!
 

SLAB

All-Star
#9
So realistically what are our picks looking like?

8 (us) and 10 (Nola) That range? And is there still a chance we send our pick to Chicago? What are the percentages on that? Is there a point where it's 0% we pick 10 or up and we're guaranteed our pick?
 
#10
We are probably going to win as many games as last year with a full year of our HOF'er DMC.
That's because a majority of those wins were with Cousins. Believe it or not, they were on pace to eclipse last seasons win total before the lame trade. Their win % was .420 before the trade and .300 since. But nice try trying to drastically spin and exaggerate things like you usually do.
 
#11
So realistically what are our picks looking like?

8 (us) and 10 (Nola) That range? And is there still a chance we send our pick to Chicago? What are the percentages on that? Is there a point where it's 0% we pick 10 or up and we're guaranteed our pick?
Likely zero. Don't think we'll finish ahead of Dallas and We're still behind Minnesota. Worst case is we finish better than Minny and Dallas and one of the low lottery teams lucks out and bumps everybody down a spot. Still time though. At this point it's not a huge deal. We're wining here and there but really, so is everybody else in our range. Our best case is number 6 and that hasn't changed and we can still very much end up there..with the pick swap we have to look where philly is though. we're either after them or where they're at
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#13
Of course you blame Divac! What a ridiculous move by Divac to play so many vets in this is game. Heck, Divac didn't care about being out of the top 3, so what the hell, let's insure we're out of the top 6, or maybe the top 9! Absolutely idiotic. So typical. Let's all have a party for being so freaking stupid! I can't wait to hear from Divac that "we were hoping to get one of the top three players, but we just were too far down in the draft to make a deal." You know, something along the lines of:
"I could have gotten a better deal earlier (but I didn't)."
 
#14
So realistically what are our picks looking like?

8 (us) and 10 (Nola) That range? And is there still a chance we send our pick to Chicago? What are the percentages on that? Is there a point where it's 0% we pick 10 or up and we're guaranteed our pick?
If we finish 7th, no way we lose the pick to Chicago.

If we are at 8, there is a very small chance we lose the pick, pretty safe.

If we are 9 or 10, knowing our luck, we are probably screwed.

If we lose out from here, not likely, we could move up to 6 or 7, but philly gets the higher pick, between us and them.
 
#18
Better reason to play the young legs then! Why are veterans closing out the game to win it? Coach is actively trying to win. I'm not blaming him for it, but we should have traded away our veterans for nothing at the trade deadline. I blame Vlade 100% for this mess if we end up with the 9th or 10th pick in a LOADED draft.
Couldn't agree more. Joerger is the only one truly committed to some sort of hard working, winning culture. His Desire to get his players to win against all odds and his revealing comment about how talent wins not character are just signs how he is simply not on board with the Plan of a full scale rebuild. He even said so in his opening Interview in SAC. To make Joerger lose games Vlade should have traded the most of our veterans at the deadline. But like usual he was too incompetent and too bad of a negotiator to do so.
He was fleeced in the Philly trade, he couldn't get a Gay trade done, he did trade DMC for laughable value and in a classless way and he couldn't find any deals for his mediocre vets before the deadline. In a year he contradicted everything he used to sign a respectable Nba coach.
Im so fed up with this. First after the trade I thought I would find a way to regain my trust in the FO after some time, but sadly I just cant stomach this anymore. Im rooting for our younglings and Joerger like everybody else on this board, but I dont have a glimpse of hope for the Future as long as Vlade Divac is our GM. Im really hoping the league somehow forces Vivek to add more competence to his FO.
 
#19
This win vs Wolves was bumbling for the draft....moved the Wolves into a tie in the win column and the Knicks one game ahead. I'd reckon the Kings go 4-1 the rest of the schedule only losing to the Rockets and assure themselves a chance at losing the pick to the Bulls? That would be extremely disappointing to see them lose the pick to the Bulls.

Meanwhile the Pelicans would have to go 6-0 and have the Trailblazers go 0-6 to overtake them. With a game vs GS, that is unlikely. The way the Pelicans are playing though, 4-2 is not unreasonable....and the Kings pick from them goes down to 11-13 range...at least its a pick.
 
#22
We knew this would be an issue, however.

When we talked about the schedule BTDMC, we looked at the late season schedule and saw that it was an opportunity to win quite a few games against some really bad teams and either solidify our playoff seeding or make a strong push for the 8th spot.

ATDMC doesn't change the fact that our schedule is still weak to close out the season. A majority of these games are still winnable given our coach and remaining roster, unless you really go out of your way to throw some games, and Joerger doesn't play that way. Again, that falls on FO shortsightedness. This schedule wasn't built for late taking.

Or,
[conspiracy]
maybe genius on their end, knowing this schedule could push us into the playoffs with DMC, making it nearly impossible to move him from a fan perspective, and thereby having to pay up $$$ to keep him.
[/conspiracy]

But that's too much credit.
 
#23
First, good news, we are not losing our draft pick this year. Even going 4-1 we cannot be better than 9th spot which means that two teams have to jump over us to lose the pick. Chances of that are less than 0.3%.

Second, bad news, yes this win does suck from the lottery perspective.
Who wants to enjoy short term satisfaction of the win, power to you.
The price is that we are solidly at the 8th spot with one win against Mavs away from having a very good shot at the 9th slot in the draft.

With a win against the Mavs, we would have a winning record against both, Mavs and TWolves.
We also have the easiest schedule the rest of the way.
Wolves do not have to tank to go 1- 6 (Portland twice, GSW, Utah, OKC, Rockets, Lakers).
Mavs have easier schedule (Bucks, Kings, Clippers, Spurs, Suns, Denver and Memphis), but mostly away games. If they lose to us they are looking at 1-3 wins range.
We have the easiest games (Mavs, Lakers, Houston, Suns, Clippers). Win over Mavs gets us to 3 wins.
 
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#24
Couldn't agree more. Joerger is the only one truly committed to some sort of hard working, winning culture. His Desire to get his players to win against all odds and his revealing comment about how talent wins not character are just signs how he is simply not on board with the Plan of a full scale rebuild. He even said so in his opening Interview in SAC. To make Joerger lose games Vlade should have traded the most of our veterans at the deadline. But like usual he was too incompetent and too bad of a negotiator to do so.
He was fleeced in the Philly trade, he couldn't get a Gay trade done, he did trade DMC for laughable value and in a classless way and he couldn't find any deals for his mediocre vets before the deadline. In a year he contradicted everything he used to sign a respectable Nba coach.
Im so fed up with this. First after the trade I thought I would find a way to regain my trust in the FO after some time, but sadly I just cant stomach this anymore. Im rooting for our younglings and Joerger like everybody else on this board, but I dont have a glimpse of hope for the Future as long as Vlade Divac is our GM. Im really hoping the league somehow forces Vivek to add more competence to his FO.
Yes, Joerger has made under the breath comments that seem to signal he wasn't on board with the trade. I remember him specifically saying before the Thunder game that getting Gibson/McDermott was the "wisest" move at the deadline
 
#25
Your spot in the draft seems like it is much less important than who you guys have making the draft day decisions. There have been good player available in every draft no matter where you draft. I realize that given the choice between picking 6th or picking 8th it is better to pick 6th but picking 6th in no way guarantees that you will have a successful draft and it doesn't mean that the 8th player taken wont be better that the 6th player taken.

Vlade appears to know what he is doing in the draft and you have a head coach that seems like he can develop players. Things are looking up for Kings fans.
 
#28
We knew this would be an issue, however.

When we talked about the schedule BTDMC, we looked at the late season schedule and saw that it was an opportunity to win quite a few games against some really bad teams and either solidify our playoff seeding or make a strong push for the 8th spot.

ATDMC doesn't change the fact that our schedule is still weak to close out the season. A majority of these games are still winnable given our coach and remaining roster, unless you really go out of your way to throw some games, and Joerger doesn't play that way. Again, that falls on FO shortsightedness. This schedule wasn't built for late taking.

Or,
[conspiracy]
maybe genius on their end, knowing this schedule could push us into the playoffs with DMC, making it nearly impossible to move him from a fan perspective, and thereby having to pay up $$$ to keep him.
[/conspiracy]

But that's too much credit.
Oh, why not? Give 'em full credit. While we contribute so many thousands of ideas, criticisms, expressions of despair, decisions, wonderful suggestions, with several dashes of praise, the ownership, FO, coaching staff are thinking, planning, deciding direction, discussing trade ideas, evaluating our players, other players, draft options, fan opinion, scouting reports, strategies in the draft, in other words, conspiring to get us the best damn team possible. So I know they are conspiring and I'm confident tha if they don't get where they want, it won't be for the lack smarts, effort or consping. I've got a good seat on the sidelines.
 
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