[Rumor]Kings/Ranadive interested in Sam Hinkie
- Thread starter kingjatt
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There's the potential problem of a new GM wanting to "put his stamp on the team" resulting in prematurely turning over the roster or pawning off players before they have chance to blossom. We saw that with cueball head Pete D needing to replace the PG (Isaiah > Darren) and get his own PG per his magic top secret advanced metric formula and get his own coach and draft his "diamond in the ruff" (Ben) instead of guy the outgoing GM recommended (Giannis!).
I think the circumstances under which Hinkie was let go and knowing his ego as far as egos go, he's going to want to "put his stamp on the team". That could include trading away guys for "undervalued assets" he identifies to say "I created this". If Vlade is around to witness what he started torn down so the new guy can show everyone who is in charge, it would be an untenable situation. The more I think about this the more I think Vivek has not.
I think you have to give Vlade the reigns this summer and give him support to make two home run picks. Demoting him to a subordinate position is no different than firing him. It is like how when the Kings replaced Ty Corbin and made him a consultant. Yeah right when is the last time anyone hit up good ol' Ty for some consulting advice?!
I think the circumstances under which Hinkie was let go and knowing his ego as far as egos go, he's going to want to "put his stamp on the team". That could include trading away guys for "undervalued assets" he identifies to say "I created this". If Vlade is around to witness what he started torn down so the new guy can show everyone who is in charge, it would be an untenable situation. The more I think about this the more I think Vivek has not.
I think you have to give Vlade the reigns this summer and give him support to make two home run picks. Demoting him to a subordinate position is no different than firing him. It is like how when the Kings replaced Ty Corbin and made him a consultant. Yeah right when is the last time anyone hit up good ol' Ty for some consulting advice?!
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Again, I think this whole thing has been adequately refuted via various sources on Twitter. I don't think Marc Stein is the ultimate source of reliable info. If anything, that little tidbit was posted on behalf of Hinkie's agent to maneuver a team Hinkie is actually interested in going to. It wouldn't be the first time...
Of course they are going to refute it. What else are they going to say?! There are 10 games left to go in the season. You don't hire a new GM now. The move would happen when the season ends if at all. It could be Vivek inquired and was rebuffed or perhaps need to schedule more formal discussions to gauge if hire would be in best interest of both parties.
Think about it, if all you have done is "put out feelers" and get permission, you are going to refute rumors because you do not even know if this guy is right for the job. You just know he has mostly favorable reputation. There has be compatibility on philosophy and strategy not mention contract terms. Then there is the no so delicate issue of demoting your current GM and finding out if they could even work together.
One has to wonder how these reputable sources (Stein, Woj) came about this news? Did the minority owners leak this to try to force out Vlade? I cannot imagine the Kings or Hinkie leaking this. It would put either side in bad light. It seems more likely the minority owners were none to be pleased with Boogie trade and are exercising their influence to the best they can with limited power.
So add up these variables and the only reason it was refuted was because the Kings had effectively no choice, not because ESPN and Woj's original tweet was false.
Think about it, if all you have done is "put out feelers" and get permission, you are going to refute rumors because you do not even know if this guy is right for the job. You just know he has mostly favorable reputation. There has be compatibility on philosophy and strategy not mention contract terms. Then there is the no so delicate issue of demoting your current GM and finding out if they could even work together.
One has to wonder how these reputable sources (Stein, Woj) came about this news? Did the minority owners leak this to try to force out Vlade? I cannot imagine the Kings or Hinkie leaking this. It would put either side in bad light. It seems more likely the minority owners were none to be pleased with Boogie trade and are exercising their influence to the best they can with limited power.
So add up these variables and the only reason it was refuted was because the Kings had effectively no choice, not because ESPN and Woj's original tweet was false.
Okay allow me to factor in Sam Amick's role in all of this....okay done. Everything I said above still stands.
The only rumor worth fighting about happened a few years ago...and thanks to guys like Carmichael Dave, Mike Tavares and Kevin Johnson the battle was won. Everything else is just details.
Talk to me when the sixers get to the 2nd round of the playoffs. If you and I are still around. And then lets see how many of their players are Hinkie's. Hinkie's a hustler. And as long as he's wheeling and dealing and people are "believing in the process," the years will pass and he'll never have built an actual championship caliber team. But keep believing, because next year it could all turn around.
Frankly it wouldn't surprise me if Vivek had become infatuated with Hinkie, now that he's signed on to starting over without DMC. He could very well have convinced himself that Vlade and Hinkie can co-exist, and that Hinkie would get more value in trades because he's... well, he's Sam Hinkie! If Hinkie came in as predident of basketball ops, how long would it be before Joerger left?
Frankly it wouldn't surprise me if Vivek had become infatuated with Hinkie, now that he's signed on to starting over without DMC. He could very well have convinced himself that Vlade and Hinkie can co-exist, and that Hinkie would get more value in trades because he's... well, he's Sam Hinkie! If Hinkie came in as predident of basketball ops, how long would it be before Joerger left?
Here's the thing about Hinkie ... I'm not going to call him a great GM but it's hard to find an example of a trade that he didn't come out ahead on during his tenure. MCW has done nothing since he traded him for a pick that could be top 5 this year. We're all too familiar with the bounty he extracted from us. It's not a perfect situation. Embiid has serious injury concerns and Bryan Colangelo ultimately got nothing in exchange for Nerlens Noel (seriously, he just threw away an All-Defense center for nothing) but a core of Embiid with Ben Simmons (remember him? the guy who was drawing Lebron comparisons after his first month at LSU) and Dario Saric plus the possibility of 2 top 5 picks this year in a very good draft -- that's hitting it out of the park in terms of talent acquisition. No other team in the league has a young core that matches up with that. And they still have an unprotected Sacramento pick in 2019 coming to them. All of that came from Hinkie. Technically he didn't pick Ben Simmons but he was replaced at the end of last season and they won the lottery primarily on the "strength" of the 10-72 record he orchestrated. The accusations that the Sixers gamed the system fit alongside criticism of Popovich resting his stars for big regular season games in my mind. If it's not technically against the rules it's not cheating. It's a competitive league. Finding a way to guarantee your team will be able to draft elite talent year after year is a viable strategy until they do something to change the way the draft is handled.
That being said, I'm not eager to revisit "the process" in Sacramento. There's a part of me that would prefer any organized plan over the half-measures, hole patching, and reactionary panic moves which have characterized the Sacramento front office for a decade or more but after the last two coaches clashed with the GM who didn't hire them the last thing I want to see is a new GM with a new plan sabotaging Dave Joerger's ability to command this team and basically undoing any progress we may have made in establishing a coaching foundation for success this season. It looks like we're starting to build something with this group. Buddy, Skal, WCS, and Coach Joerger are all big parts of that. You want to hire a consultant to work under Vlade and help in the negotiation process? Fine. Hinkie is not that guy. He has no reason to accept a lower-management position and I can't believe he would ever even consider it without an implied pathway to the top chair already in sight.
That being said, I'm not eager to revisit "the process" in Sacramento. There's a part of me that would prefer any organized plan over the half-measures, hole patching, and reactionary panic moves which have characterized the Sacramento front office for a decade or more but after the last two coaches clashed with the GM who didn't hire them the last thing I want to see is a new GM with a new plan sabotaging Dave Joerger's ability to command this team and basically undoing any progress we may have made in establishing a coaching foundation for success this season. It looks like we're starting to build something with this group. Buddy, Skal, WCS, and Coach Joerger are all big parts of that. You want to hire a consultant to work under Vlade and help in the negotiation process? Fine. Hinkie is not that guy. He has no reason to accept a lower-management position and I can't believe he would ever even consider it without an implied pathway to the top chair already in sight.
It begins and ends with Vivek. Personally I think Vivek can't help but screw up whatever process we are in. We might get 2 years into this process of growing with draft picks and our current young guys and Vivek could change his mind AGAIN and insist on trading everything to make the playoffs ASAP again. We are all being held hostage by the whims of a basketball Dumbass.
Vlades fired. Vlade stays as GM. Vlade stays on and someone comes in over Vlade, it doesn't matter. The instability of our owner will eventually chase away our 1 and only asset, Dave Joeger.
Vlades fired. Vlade stays as GM. Vlade stays on and someone comes in over Vlade, it doesn't matter. The instability of our owner will eventually chase away our 1 and only asset, Dave Joeger.
Honestly, I don't think I'd totally want to get rid of Vlade yet. Its too early, imo. All of his draft picks, with the combination of the great development by the coaching staff, makes me feel optimistic about the future. Add in a couple high picks in this draft and there is no telling what this team could look like. Obviously Vlade isn't perfect though and he needs real help when it comes to trades. I would just be worried, like others have said, that if Hinkie comes in he may completely overhaul everything so that he can put his stamp on the team.
This coaching staff and young players show real promise and I don't want someone new coming in and changing it all.
This coaching staff and young players show real promise and I don't want someone new coming in and changing it all.
he's very good at tanking and asset accumulation. i'd let vlade try to set his vision with 2 years than reboot yet again. the draft picks don't look bad. if anything, maybe he should've talked to petrie to see if he could come in a consulting position. vivek is a snake. he used vlade to help with damage control and looks like he's gonna give him the axe this summer.
All the discussion in the pregame of tonight's game indicated the Kings ARE looking to strengthen their organization. Apparently, even the NBA has interceded to make sure it happens. Certainly, the minority owners appear to have been all over Vivek to make some changes. What exactly such strengthening means is something nobody specifies The tweets above could mean Vlade could be president and some other individual GM (below him). Who knows. Personally, when I look at what Vlade has done he's done very well in the coach hire and in the draftees, but not very well in strategy and trade negotiations by mortgaging future draft picks and not getting what he should have for Cousins. He really let himself get boxed in with Cousins by waiting far too long. So if they are going to strengthen the organization, maybe they need somebody who could take control of trades and FA. Also, just from the sound of it, they could use some more scouting help.
Isn't this exactly what Ken Catanella was brought in for.
I think I have been pretty vocal in my lack of trust in Vlade since Cousins trade. That has not changed so essentially, I am not exactly against the change but I am not sure that Hinkie is really an answer. He is analytics nerd who has no real basketball background and does not know how to evaluate talent any other way than using the spreadsheet. One thing he has done really well is accumulate assets for the Sixers.
Now the way I see it, Vlade might have some value in the franchise but he should not be allowed anywhere near negotiations table. When it comes to negotiating trades lock him away from the room. When it comes to draft, lock Vivek out please.
What I would like to see if for Vlade to take a background role there. Still be a consultant of sorts or even a president of basketball operations but let a GM do the real GM job. I think I like Catanella. I look at the off-season last year and I think a lot of that has Ken's input. Trading back to replenish youth and get more assets, essentially expiring contracts for FAs except Temple. There are a few smart moves there. I wouldn't mind seeing him as a real GM who does all the work and fronts up the press conferences. If I recall correctly, he worked for the NBA, played basketball himself, understands the CBA and cap really well so a good portion of the skill set is there.
One thing is for certain, things CANNOT go on like they have since Vivek bought the team. Vlade cannot keep doing what he is doing. Successful GMs are out there scouting most of the time, they are barely in the office. Vlade barely leaves Sacramento. He would have hardly watched any college games in person this season. Front office does need a major influx of quality, experienced people who know what they are doing and who are working their backside off each and every day. I am not sure Vlade works as hard as his role requires. Making basketball decisions requires a heck of a lot of heavy lifting and I am not convinced that Vlade does anywhere near enough of what is required.
And that is not even accounting for the fact that Vivek has patience and attention span of a cranky 6 month old with ADD.
I think I have been pretty vocal in my lack of trust in Vlade since Cousins trade. That has not changed so essentially, I am not exactly against the change but I am not sure that Hinkie is really an answer. He is analytics nerd who has no real basketball background and does not know how to evaluate talent any other way than using the spreadsheet. One thing he has done really well is accumulate assets for the Sixers.
Now the way I see it, Vlade might have some value in the franchise but he should not be allowed anywhere near negotiations table. When it comes to negotiating trades lock him away from the room. When it comes to draft, lock Vivek out please.
What I would like to see if for Vlade to take a background role there. Still be a consultant of sorts or even a president of basketball operations but let a GM do the real GM job. I think I like Catanella. I look at the off-season last year and I think a lot of that has Ken's input. Trading back to replenish youth and get more assets, essentially expiring contracts for FAs except Temple. There are a few smart moves there. I wouldn't mind seeing him as a real GM who does all the work and fronts up the press conferences. If I recall correctly, he worked for the NBA, played basketball himself, understands the CBA and cap really well so a good portion of the skill set is there.
One thing is for certain, things CANNOT go on like they have since Vivek bought the team. Vlade cannot keep doing what he is doing. Successful GMs are out there scouting most of the time, they are barely in the office. Vlade barely leaves Sacramento. He would have hardly watched any college games in person this season. Front office does need a major influx of quality, experienced people who know what they are doing and who are working their backside off each and every day. I am not sure Vlade works as hard as his role requires. Making basketball decisions requires a heck of a lot of heavy lifting and I am not convinced that Vlade does anywhere near enough of what is required.
And that is not even accounting for the fact that Vivek has patience and attention span of a cranky 6 month old with ADD.
Talk to me when the sixers get to the 2nd round of the playoffs. If you and I are still around. And then lets see how many of their players are Hinkie's. Hinkie's a hustler. And as long as he's wheeling and dealing and people are "believing in the process," the years will pass and he'll never have built an actual championship caliber team. But keep believing, because next year it could all turn around.
Frankly it wouldn't surprise me if Vivek had become infatuated with Hinkie, now that he's signed on to starting over without DMC. He could very well have convinced himself that Vlade and Hinkie can co-exist, and that Hinkie would get more value in trades because he's... well, he's Sam Hinkie! If Hinkie came in as predident of basketball ops, how long would it be before Joerger left?
Frankly it wouldn't surprise me if Vivek had become infatuated with Hinkie, now that he's signed on to starting over without DMC. He could very well have convinced himself that Vlade and Hinkie can co-exist, and that Hinkie would get more value in trades because he's... well, he's Sam Hinkie! If Hinkie came in as predident of basketball ops, how long would it be before Joerger left?
Just because Embiid looks unfortunately broken, doesn't mean his process was wrong. And if they do get him healthy (giant ass IF, but there's still an IF to be had) he's going to be a top 10 player in the game. Saric looks like an absolute stud and an outstanding Point-forward. You get that Ben Simmons guy healthy for next year. You have a 45% chance to have 2 top 7 picks in the best draft since 2003. He found very productive players in T.J McConnel, Richaun Holmes and Robert Covington. He fleeced team after team in trades. Hinkie set this team up to actually have a chance at being a title contender, rather than our personal test of trying to win 35 games.
The best part is Hinkie would stop all the nonsense of Vivek and other outside factors try and influence team decisions. It'd be him and his staff running the show and we would finally be able to get that monkey off our back.
Kings have been in win now mode for years.
At some point, Vivek is unsure whether he has the right front office in place.
Kings abruptly shift into rebuild mode in February 2017 by trading their franchise player.
Kings, who could have held Cousins until draft and thus opened up more options for trades, continue to think ... hmm, maybe we should tinker with the front office that just made franchise altering trade.
Kings request and get permission to talk to Hinkie
Hinkie not interest and Kings worried about blow back issue statement "That they aren't hiring Hinkie" not refuting that they requested permission to speak with Hinkie and/or spoke with Hinkie.
I don't know that's the timeline ... but the Kings biggest issue for a decade is they've been a rudderless ship. If the foundation remains bad, it isn't going to matter how many of the prospects pan out.
At some point, Vivek is unsure whether he has the right front office in place.
Kings abruptly shift into rebuild mode in February 2017 by trading their franchise player.
Kings, who could have held Cousins until draft and thus opened up more options for trades, continue to think ... hmm, maybe we should tinker with the front office that just made franchise altering trade.
Kings request and get permission to talk to Hinkie
Hinkie not interest and Kings worried about blow back issue statement "That they aren't hiring Hinkie" not refuting that they requested permission to speak with Hinkie and/or spoke with Hinkie.
I don't know that's the timeline ... but the Kings biggest issue for a decade is they've been a rudderless ship. If the foundation remains bad, it isn't going to matter how many of the prospects pan out.
Hinkie would be a great hire. Whats funny is, that people seem to know in advance what strategy he would employ with the Kings. Yes he tanked with the 76ers. But wasnt that a viable strategy for a franchise, that had a PG with health issues and was pretty much locked in the treadmill?
Our situation is entirely different. We have some young pieces already un place. So why should signing Hinkie automaticely mean tanking for years to come?
Bottom line is Hinkie is a professional, experienced GM with a good to great trade record. Hinkie and Joerger would make this franchise at least respectable on the FO and coaching Level again.
Our situation is entirely different. We have some young pieces already un place. So why should signing Hinkie automaticely mean tanking for years to come?
Bottom line is Hinkie is a professional, experienced GM with a good to great trade record. Hinkie and Joerger would make this franchise at least respectable on the FO and coaching Level again.