Something went amiss. You don't spend 1 1/2 year building around a player only to trade him 4 days before the trade deadline when he is still under team control for the next 1 1/2 seasons for table scraps. Vlade said he wanted to secure a pick for this year, but the team could have traded Collison and Koufos preventing the Bulls' obligation from triggering.
Is Vlade worse than PDA?
- Thread starter SLAB
- Start date
K
Yes, he is worse than PDA, because at least PDA had some experience working in a FO. PDA was able to land a fair trade for Rudy Gay, which Vlade could have NEVER Done. PDA let go of Isaiah Thomas for nothing, though, so for that reason alone I cannot stand PDA, but I guess that puts it in perspective what I think about Vlade
Is there a solution to viveks lack of basketball acumen?
Listening to woj on Rome just depressed me even more. Woj said that vlade finally got Vivek to give the go ahead to trade Demarcus and he rushed to trade him before Vivek changed his mind again. There were other GM's who called vlade after they heard that talks between pels and kings had gone into high gear and they couldn't get through to vlade. The talk was Vivek had a group of players he wanted and that they really didn't entertain any other offers. That jives with the GM's who are saying they couldn't get a return call from vlade.
Vlade knew that Vivek was obsessed with buddy and that that was the best opportunity to move cousins.
It just feels like we're doomed to this Cleveland Browns type of ineptitude as long as Vivek is running the show. Is there light at the end of this tunnel?
Listening to woj on Rome just depressed me even more. Woj said that vlade finally got Vivek to give the go ahead to trade Demarcus and he rushed to trade him before Vivek changed his mind again. There were other GM's who called vlade after they heard that talks between pels and kings had gone into high gear and they couldn't get through to vlade. The talk was Vivek had a group of players he wanted and that they really didn't entertain any other offers. That jives with the GM's who are saying they couldn't get a return call from vlade.
Vlade knew that Vivek was obsessed with buddy and that that was the best opportunity to move cousins.
It just feels like we're doomed to this Cleveland Browns type of ineptitude as long as Vivek is running the show. Is there light at the end of this tunnel?
Well, in that story, Vivek is both the smart guy and dumb guy. Smart for not moving Cousins. Dumb for his Warriors obsession and having not real sense for talent. Vlade is the ultimate idiot for various reasons.
Reframe the discussion in a future where Vlade didn't throw away assets to clear cap space because he didn't know about the stretch provision. They could then have draft assets to trade in a market with Drummond, Butler and George. They'd be helping their star out like New Orleans did. Instead, they ****ed over their assets, saw that a bunch of role players were only getting them an 8th seed, and had no plan B. All they had was a stick of dynamite that they lit at the first chance.
Reframe the discussion in a future where Vlade didn't throw away assets to clear cap space because he didn't know about the stretch provision. They could then have draft assets to trade in a market with Drummond, Butler and George. They'd be helping their star out like New Orleans did. Instead, they ****ed over their assets, saw that a bunch of role players were only getting them an 8th seed, and had no plan B. All they had was a stick of dynamite that they lit at the first chance.
This fits with what we know about the Malone timeline too. Vivek hired Coach Malone because he was around Golden State and knew he was a quality head coaching candidate. But then he got talked into PDA's "smartest guy in the room" act (perhaps because it mirrors his own?) and allowed him to force the team into his pace-obsessed Karl-ball philosophy even though that was diametrically opposed to the coaching philosophy of the coach he hired himself! If Vivek had bothered to listen to anything Mike Malone had to say he would have seen that trouble coming a mile away but apparently all he really knows is what other people tell him. And Golden State was the toast of the league by then with their own pace-obsessed brand of basketball so it doesn't take much convincing to get somebody to believe what they already want to believe. That whole jazz band discussion was probably lifted word-for-word from whatever conversations he had with Pete that convinced him to fire Malone (or allow him to be fired, same thing). Handing over operations to Vlade made sense when his role was going to be more of a diplomatic one. His tenure as GM had been just as disastrous as Pete's. But they're all to blame as far as I'm concerned. I don't need to know which ones are enabling and which ones are being enabled. Collectively it's been a giant mess and the only way it becomes un-messed is if somebody takes over who has a real eye for talent, negotiation skills, NBA front office experience, and an inside-out understanding of the CBA.
This has probably been long-since forgotten, but when Vivek first came in he hired Malone as his head coach and targeted Larry Bird for GM. For whatever reason (probably money) Bird decided not to come here and we eventually ended up with PDA instead. We were that close to having a functional front office everybody! One bad decision and the dominoes all fall from there. As we speed 100mph in the opposite direction, it could be really depressing once you realize how differently the storyline could have gone since Vivek took over. We were so happy to root for Kings basketball then, it would have felt like the dark years were all worth it if we started to build a winning formula right away. But I'm a little older now, less prone to moping, so I just find the whole situation hilarious. Look how much can turn on a simple choice like that! We could be radiating good vibes all the way to the East Coast but the only thing we're radiating right now is incompetence, simmering discontent, and foul odors (rhetorically speaking, not literally like the Oakland Coliseum...). Such is life my friends!
C'est la vie.
This has probably been long-since forgotten, but when Vivek first came in he hired Malone as his head coach and targeted Larry Bird for GM. For whatever reason (probably money) Bird decided not to come here and we eventually ended up with PDA instead. We were that close to having a functional front office everybody! One bad decision and the dominoes all fall from there. As we speed 100mph in the opposite direction, it could be really depressing once you realize how differently the storyline could have gone since Vivek took over. We were so happy to root for Kings basketball then, it would have felt like the dark years were all worth it if we started to build a winning formula right away. But I'm a little older now, less prone to moping, so I just find the whole situation hilarious. Look how much can turn on a simple choice like that! We could be radiating good vibes all the way to the East Coast but the only thing we're radiating right now is incompetence, simmering discontent, and foul odors (rhetorically speaking, not literally like the Oakland Coliseum...). Such is life my friends!
C'est la vie.
VD: "The further we go, we'll lose more and more value."
No kidding. Adding to the diminishing leverage because of the diminishing time on the contract, ESPN reported that Cousins' agent was telling all the prospective buyers that Cousins wouldn't re-up with any team to which he was traded. Further diminished leverage is the result, which leads to decreased value for Cousins. With 1.5 years left on the contract it's a mega roll of the dice for prospective buyers. With 2.5 or 3 years left on the contract, there would probably be a much different calculus for prospective buyers. I guess Vlade's off-season moves reflected the organizations internal ambivalence in the youth movement on the one hand, and mortgaging future picks on the other. Ambivalence usually leads to procrastination. It didn't work out well for Hamlet and it didn't work out well for Divac.
As others in the media have said, this may ultimately be a "noble" move by Vlade. He probably knows his neck is in the noose because of it, but he made the move anyway. He also knows that a $200 mill contract on the books with head-case Cousins would be nowhersville for this team and they have to move him. It's just that Vlade didn't have the acumen to proactively move on the situation shortly after he became GM. Instead, they ponder and delay and hand-wring and procrastinate, and you're left with this pile. Like I've said before: We need a PRO-FESS-ION-AL GM.
No kidding.
Adding to the diminishing leverage because of the diminishing time on the contract, ESPN reported that Cousins' agent was telling all the prospective buyers that Cousins wouldn't re-up with any team to which he was traded. Further diminished leverage is the result, which leads to decreased value for Cousins. With 1.5 years left on the contract it's a mega roll of the dice for prospective buyers. With 2.5 or 3 years left on the contract, there would probably be a much different calculus for prospective buyers. I guess Vlade's off-season moves reflected the organizations internal ambivalence in the youth movement on the one hand, and mortgaging future picks on the other. Ambivalence usually leads to procrastination. It didn't work out well for Hamlet and it didn't work out well for Divac.As others in the media have said, this may ultimately be a "noble" move by Vlade. He probably knows his neck is in the noose because of it, but he made the move anyway. He also knows that a $200 mill contract on the books with head-case Cousins would be nowhersville for this team and they have to move him. It's just that Vlade didn't have the acumen to proactively move on the situation shortly after he became GM. Instead, they ponder and delay and hand-wring and procrastinate, and you're left with this pile. Like I've said before: We need a PRO-FESS-ION-AL GM.
Does anyone truly believe Divac understands player value, contract details, and the nuances of the CBA?
I thought that he was just a figurehead, and had smart people around him.
But it looks more and more like he actually is a major part of making real decisions. And he is just incompetent in every facet. The one thing I thought he could do, lead and communicate with players, has been demolished by his dishonesty about Cousins.
I thought that he was just a figurehead, and had smart people around him.
But it looks more and more like he actually is a major part of making real decisions. And he is just incompetent in every facet. The one thing I thought he could do, lead and communicate with players, has been demolished by his dishonesty about Cousins.
Tyreke is 27, I know he has had a ton of injuries but even this year he still has had some excellent performances. He isnt a corpse, he still has some years left if he can stay healthy. Not saying it will be here, but who knows. I get the feeling Joerger will play him simply because the team will need guys who can create, and Tyreke can do that.
I mentioned in the other thread, but I believe that Vlade wanted Cousins gone after the drama with Karl last year. He gave it 1 yr to see how Cousins develops emotionally and decided that he couldn't handle someone like Boogie. So he drafted Papa thinking he can convince Vivek to trade Cousins.
That is why there would periodically be news of "Vivek Refusing Any Ideas of Trading Cousins". Now we won't know what really broke the camel's back for Vivek, but some rumors claim it was Cousins flipping the bird against some Warriors fans and saying "F Warriors" that did it for Vivek. I wouldn't be surprised.
Regardless, something triggered Vivek to OK it. I would guess its a combo of flipping the bird against his beloved warriors, lack of financial strength on Vivek's part, that 1 win without Cousins against the Celtics and the next Steph Curry in Buddy Hield.
So yes, Vlade is the Snake in this case and Vivek was being Vivek and went right with it.
Vlade might have been a great player from our glory days, but he just set us back 5-10 years, easily, and in the process wiped off all the "glory aura" he had off of him.
I just don't understand the trade. If we ignore (for a second) what we got in return and just focus on trading Cousins, it still doesn't make sense. We are knocking on the door for the 8th spot in the West, and we could have swung a couple of minor deals to get some additional help and make a charge for the playoffs. If we made it, there would have been a huge "Kings are finally back in the playoffs" and if we managed to steal a game or two from Golden State, we would have set ourselves up wonderfully for this summer's free agency class. "We made the playoffs, but we need more to make a real splash. You could/would be that guy." That's the pitch, or at least was.
So we traded Cousins and decided to head completely in the opposite direction of the playoffs, an area that we know all too well. Okay. No whining or misery will bring Cousins back, and he will certainly NEVER sign here again, being the proud guy he is. We decided that we would blow it up. That's fine too, nothing we do can change that now. Blow it up, fine, but you better make sure you get at least 2 first round picks back with some good to decent players thrown in. That's how you accelerate a rebuild. Lottery picks as close to 1 as you can get and do your homework, draft well, and have a solid team in 3-4 years.
We didn't do that. We got a mid first round pick, a 2nd round pick (LOL) and guys that won't be on the roster next season except for 1. I understand Cousin's value being potentially lower than it should be, but short of him committing murder, it shouldn't be THAT low. No effin way!
We made a really really bad trade and we will pay for it for many years to come. There's no other possible conclusion. The only way we come out of this looking 1% respectable is if Buddy Hield turns out to be a star, which he won't be.... he will be a good to great role player, but he doesn't have the skill set to be a star (a JJ Redick type).
I just don't understand the trade. If we ignore (for a second) what we got in return and just focus on trading Cousins, it still doesn't make sense. We are knocking on the door for the 8th spot in the West, and we could have swung a couple of minor deals to get some additional help and make a charge for the playoffs. If we made it, there would have been a huge "Kings are finally back in the playoffs" and if we managed to steal a game or two from Golden State, we would have set ourselves up wonderfully for this summer's free agency class. "We made the playoffs, but we need more to make a real splash. You could/would be that guy." That's the pitch, or at least was.
So we traded Cousins and decided to head completely in the opposite direction of the playoffs, an area that we know all too well. Okay. No whining or misery will bring Cousins back, and he will certainly NEVER sign here again, being the proud guy he is. We decided that we would blow it up. That's fine too, nothing we do can change that now. Blow it up, fine, but you better make sure you get at least 2 first round picks back with some good to decent players thrown in. That's how you accelerate a rebuild. Lottery picks as close to 1 as you can get and do your homework, draft well, and have a solid team in 3-4 years.
We didn't do that. We got a mid first round pick, a 2nd round pick (LOL) and guys that won't be on the roster next season except for 1. I understand Cousin's value being potentially lower than it should be, but short of him committing murder, it shouldn't be THAT low. No effin way!
We made a really really bad trade and we will pay for it for many years to come. There's no other possible conclusion. The only way we come out of this looking 1% respectable is if Buddy Hield turns out to be a star, which he won't be.... he will be a good to great role player, but he doesn't have the skill set to be a star (a JJ Redick type).
There were reports to that effect, but it does not appear that they were correct. Vlade has subsequently gone on record saying that both Tyreke and Galloway will be here.
Galloway makes little sense to waive, if only because he (like Barnes) has a player option for next year and we'd be stuck paying it. Tyreke is an expiring contract, but waiving it doesn't do us any good unless he is injured and out for the season (I'm not under that impression, but I haven't checked in on him lately). For one, if we trade Collison he would be a passable option at backup PG. For another, we can actually turn around and flip him between now and the trade deadline, as long as we don't aggregate his salary with other players in the deal. So *maybe* we waive him after the trade deadline, but I kind of doubt it.
Galloway makes little sense to waive, if only because he (like Barnes) has a player option for next year and we'd be stuck paying it. Tyreke is an expiring contract, but waiving it doesn't do us any good unless he is injured and out for the season (I'm not under that impression, but I haven't checked in on him lately). For one, if we trade Collison he would be a passable option at backup PG. For another, we can actually turn around and flip him between now and the trade deadline, as long as we don't aggregate his salary with other players in the deal. So *maybe* we waive him after the trade deadline, but I kind of doubt it.
Help Philly get a better pick you mean.
As the remainder of the colossal SMH of this deal. The Kings can't benefit from the tank they envision. They are entirely dependent on Philly's tank. And Philly just lost any reason to continue on with it now that the Kings will be safely terrible for them. They can just go ahead and try to win as many as possible content in knowing they still get a high lotto pick anyway. Everybody wins...except the Kings.
As the remainder of the colossal SMH of this deal. The Kings can't benefit from the tank they envision. They are entirely dependent on Philly's tank. And Philly just lost any reason to continue on with it now that the Kings will be safely terrible for them. They can just go ahead and try to win as many as possible content in knowing they still get a high lotto pick anyway. Everybody wins...except the Kings.
No, that's not what I mean.
You have no idea how Philly is going to end the year. Acting like it's certainty is misleading at best. Don't get it confused with an unprotected pick.
Even if we end up with a worse record than Philly, there's still no guarantee that Philly makes the swap. They could still leap frog us and make it into the top 3 (thus the swap would not happen). I'm not saying it's likely, but it's a chance.
It might be difficult to comprehend, but it's in both our best interest and Philly's best interest for us to finish with the worst record we can. It's obviously not ideal, but it's our reality right now. I don't care about Philly. I care about the Kings having the best chance to land another star, and that % chance increases with every loss we accumulate. All we can do is play the odds and hope for the best...
You have no idea how Philly is going to end the year. Acting like it's certainty is misleading at best. Don't get it confused with an unprotected pick.
Even if we end up with a worse record than Philly, there's still no guarantee that Philly makes the swap. They could still leap frog us and make it into the top 3 (thus the swap would not happen). I'm not saying it's likely, but it's a chance.
It might be difficult to comprehend, but it's in both our best interest and Philly's best interest for us to finish with the worst record we can. It's obviously not ideal, but it's our reality right now. I don't care about Philly. I care about the Kings having the best chance to land another star, and that % chance increases with every loss we accumulate. All we can do is play the odds and hope for the best...
Which is part of a dumb move by Vlade to win now around Cousins. Sometimes its better to cut your losses and know when to fold. How many more future picks would we mortgage in service of shooting for the stars around Cousins? Its time to rebuild the right way and not apply bandaid after bandaid, year after year in the neverending chase for mediocrity. Theres a reason New Orleans, Phoenix, Lakers and Orlando were the teams trying to trade for Cousins. All bad organizations like us that will gamble the culture of a team because the talent is blinding.
Now take into consideration that Vlade wasn't able to make any trade which would have helped this team to get the 8th seed, just like he wasnt able to sign quality FA's and you have your explanation why we trade DMC.
Vlade couldn't do anything to improve this team, so he decided that there simply was no way to improve this team. Because it's impossible that he is just Bad at his job right? There has to be someone else to blame. Someone who would be an easy targets, because people will step out of their way to blame said guy because his reputation is already Bad........
Vlade couldn't do anything to improve this team, so he decided that there simply was no way to improve this team. Because it's impossible that he is just Bad at his job right? There has to be someone else to blame. Someone who would be an easy targets, because people will step out of their way to blame said guy because his reputation is already Bad........
The most disturbing thing about all of this is there is NO plan. Everything seems to done on a whim with no vision or philosophy. Someone should have asked Vlade a random CBA question yesterday and seen how he fared.
All of the concerns some of us had regarding his technical knowledge when he was hired come front and center this past weekend.
People skills are great, and he was a great teammate but he has no clue on how to run an NBA team.
All of the concerns some of us had regarding his technical knowledge when he was hired come front and center this past weekend.
People skills are great, and he was a great teammate but he has no clue on how to run an NBA team.
