Evaluating the Cousins Trade.
- Thread starter kingdivac
- Start date
I have refrained from responding all day, trying to let myself calm down in order to make an objective (as objective as possible anyway) read of the trade.
Thoughts:
1) This trade will go down as one of the worst trades in Sacramento history (and we have made some dumb ones, so that says a lot)
2) I loved Cousin's game. I liked watching him improve year after year and become a superstar. I enjoyed the nice things he said and did off the court. He's the best center in the game and we no longer have him, which sucks royally. I definitely did not like any of the extra stuff (punching teammates, swearing at people, threatening reporters, etc.) and I certainly will not miss that aspect.
3) Trading Demarcus (the player, not the "person") really didn't bother me as much as I thought it would (no, seriously) because he wasn't a player I could connect with. I don't share his type of personality/viewpoints and so I could never really see things the way he saw them. Having said that, what does bother is our return on him. It's a joke. We got hosed/fleeced/ripped off/abused..... all of the above. When you trade a superstar, at minimum, you ought to be getting a player that has the potential to be a superstar himself or you best be getting 2-3 first round picks. If you don't have that in a trade, you stare down your counterpart until he blinks, and reap your rewards. We quite clearly blinked first and apparently kept our eyes shut during the trade agreement, because only someone that's blind would sign off on this trade.
4) It is true that we didn't win with Cousins as an organization. 7 years in and no better than a 30 something win season. Clearly, this was not all of his fault, but we also had to endure quite a lot of growing pains with him. It's an experiment that Vlade clearly felt had failed and it was time to move on.
5) After reading up on some of what Vlade said today, it is apparent that something must have happened behind the scenes, or that Cousins had done something repeatedly that would cause Vlade to no longer tolerate his behavior. Who knows what it was....
6) I, unlike others, am not nearly as offended by Vlade saying Cousins wouldn't be traded and then traded him anyway. What was he supposed to do? He can't say he's open to it because of all of the issues that would cause and would naturally result in teams lowballing us (which happened anyway because of Vlade's incompetence). When you say someone is unavailable, that's when the best offers are supposed to be coming in, but it never happened. We settled for the first deal that came our way that was somewhat in the realm of possible and took it. If Vlade waited until Thursday, some team would have blinked for sure and we could have had our choice.
Thoughts:
1) This trade will go down as one of the worst trades in Sacramento history (and we have made some dumb ones, so that says a lot)
2) I loved Cousin's game. I liked watching him improve year after year and become a superstar. I enjoyed the nice things he said and did off the court. He's the best center in the game and we no longer have him, which sucks royally. I definitely did not like any of the extra stuff (punching teammates, swearing at people, threatening reporters, etc.) and I certainly will not miss that aspect.
3) Trading Demarcus (the player, not the "person") really didn't bother me as much as I thought it would (no, seriously) because he wasn't a player I could connect with. I don't share his type of personality/viewpoints and so I could never really see things the way he saw them. Having said that, what does bother is our return on him. It's a joke. We got hosed/fleeced/ripped off/abused..... all of the above. When you trade a superstar, at minimum, you ought to be getting a player that has the potential to be a superstar himself or you best be getting 2-3 first round picks. If you don't have that in a trade, you stare down your counterpart until he blinks, and reap your rewards. We quite clearly blinked first and apparently kept our eyes shut during the trade agreement, because only someone that's blind would sign off on this trade.
4) It is true that we didn't win with Cousins as an organization. 7 years in and no better than a 30 something win season. Clearly, this was not all of his fault, but we also had to endure quite a lot of growing pains with him. It's an experiment that Vlade clearly felt had failed and it was time to move on.
5) After reading up on some of what Vlade said today, it is apparent that something must have happened behind the scenes, or that Cousins had done something repeatedly that would cause Vlade to no longer tolerate his behavior. Who knows what it was....
6) I, unlike others, am not nearly as offended by Vlade saying Cousins wouldn't be traded and then traded him anyway. What was he supposed to do? He can't say he's open to it because of all of the issues that would cause and would naturally result in teams lowballing us (which happened anyway because of Vlade's incompetence). When you say someone is unavailable, that's when the best offers are supposed to be coming in, but it never happened. We settled for the first deal that came our way that was somewhat in the realm of possible and took it. If Vlade waited until Thursday, some team would have blinked for sure and we could have had our choice.
I would agree with you up to this year. But this year Boogie was 56% TS with near 40% usage, only 43% assisted baskets and 1.3 assist to turnover ratio. These are numbers unlike anything he logged in his first 6 years. If you put better talent around him he could lead a team to 50+ wins even with the extracurricular. In seasons prior he was 53% TS and 0.8 assist to turnover, i.e. a high volume low efficiency player, 50 wins would be an impossibility. At this efficiency I think the teams ceiling would be only .500. I would not be surprised if Pelicans play .600 to .700 ball if team stays healthy and Boogie acclimates quickly and continues to produce at same rate, because with Anthony Davis he will have the most talented teammate he's ever had.
This board has very passionate fans, some wanted to keep Cuz some wanted to trade him. One thing everyone can agree on is the return for Cuz sucks. There is no silver lining, there is no way to spin this. The only people who thought this was a good deal was Vlade and Ranadive.
Pelican probably couldn't even believe this deal was possible.
Pelican's were trying to dump Ajinca contract too. Who would have thought Boogie and Okafor have about the same trade value.....crazy
Pelican probably couldn't even believe this deal was possible.
Pelican's were trying to dump Ajinca contract too. Who would have thought Boogie and Okafor have about the same trade value.....crazy
Not much to evaluate here. Even people who don't know much about basketball can confidently say the Kings got 20 cents on the dollar for him. The fact that the pick is top 3 protected told me all I needed to know about Vlade as a GM, sure..Pelicans' chances of landing a top 3 pick is pretty slim but that's not the point here. Too bad that Vlade isn't a man of his word, Vivek is and always will be the main instigator in all of this. So long as he is here, he will continually want to mimic the Warriors and try time and time again to find his own Steph or Klay.
At that point, he was too far down this road anyway. It used to be said around here that when they start saying "you won't be traded," you probably will be. Let's be real though, it's not the first time we have done this; Peja found out he was traded by watching ESPN. We lied to Rudy about coach Malone and promptly fired him for his minor success. The philly trade. Now DMC.
We have a history of poorly managing trades. It's in our blood.
We have a history of poorly managing trades. It's in our blood.
Overall, stepping back from the ledge, there were two directions
Bottom out and keep our top ten, get assets, tank next year too, keep cap flexibility, grow our youth etc
Or put our eggs in Cousins basket. I would have been fine as I dreamed he could've matured into top 5 player but so many other things. His paycheck at the super max would've been like 40% of the cap. We could've lost our pick this year and not get assets and not cultivated the youth we do have. Cousins could've never matured mentally or become more perimeter prone with age. But another thing, dude is a big man, and the team would've been in the hook 6 years for him. His weight causes health issues by year three and an albatross is taking almost half the cap
Really two directions. And watching a veteran sub .500 team ruining the top ten draft pick was killing me, although man, Cousins maturing into top 5 may have been the risk a lot would take
But definitely two paths
Bottom out and keep our top ten, get assets, tank next year too, keep cap flexibility, grow our youth etc
Or put our eggs in Cousins basket. I would have been fine as I dreamed he could've matured into top 5 player but so many other things. His paycheck at the super max would've been like 40% of the cap. We could've lost our pick this year and not get assets and not cultivated the youth we do have. Cousins could've never matured mentally or become more perimeter prone with age. But another thing, dude is a big man, and the team would've been in the hook 6 years for him. His weight causes health issues by year three and an albatross is taking almost half the cap
Really two directions. And watching a veteran sub .500 team ruining the top ten draft pick was killing me, although man, Cousins maturing into top 5 may have been the risk a lot would take
But definitely two paths
King choose the hidden 3rd path. Trade cousins away for a mid first rounder. Admit to still wanting to make the playoffs despite losing their own pick (highly unlikely but don't count out what coach can do with half a team due to injuries). Only thing left to make it a kangz move is for N.O. to win the lottery so the kings get no picks in this years draft.
Another thing about this is what Bruski has been discussing on the Kings CSN Bay Area podcast
Folks like me have been complaining about Cousins being on the perimeter all season. He's a beast, and his natural beast mode is not being able to be handled on the block. We've gone through two coaches and maybe we have to admit he's on the perimeter, turning it over at an alarming rate, because of his own proclivity and not game plan. Maybe, either because he views himself a do it all guy, he's following his own tune, and the coaches want him on the block and maybe this is an issue
Folks like me have been complaining about Cousins being on the perimeter all season. He's a beast, and his natural beast mode is not being able to be handled on the block. We've gone through two coaches and maybe we have to admit he's on the perimeter, turning it over at an alarming rate, because of his own proclivity and not game plan. Maybe, either because he views himself a do it all guy, he's following his own tune, and the coaches want him on the block and maybe this is an issue
These guys are so effing clueless it's not even funny anymore. The "culture" they believe needs to be changed was created at the ownership/executive level.
I'd like to know how misleading Rudy Gay in order to re-sign him a few seasons ago and reneging on a verbal commitment they made to Cousins mere weeks ago translates or leads to a better culture?
The team already had draft prospects refusing to workout for them and FA's unwilling to really take them seriously but that's suddenly supposed to change?
The manner in which these guys continue to conduct their business is far more unprofessional than anything DeMarcus Cousins has ever done.
I'd like to know how misleading Rudy Gay in order to re-sign him a few seasons ago and reneging on a verbal commitment they made to Cousins mere weeks ago translates or leads to a better culture?
The team already had draft prospects refusing to workout for them and FA's unwilling to really take them seriously but that's suddenly supposed to change?
The manner in which these guys continue to conduct their business is far more unprofessional than anything DeMarcus Cousins has ever done.
Not buying it.
First, "turning it over at an alarming rate"?? He's averaging 3.8 per game, which is only slightly above his career average. He's also averaging a career best 4.8 apg so obviously doing some good things as the facilitator.
He's out on the perimeter more because he's one of the team best deep shooters and also that's where the coach wants him on a myriad of plays.
First, "turning it over at an alarming rate"?? He's averaging 3.8 per game, which is only slightly above his career average. He's also averaging a career best 4.8 apg so obviously doing some good things as the facilitator.
He's out on the perimeter more because he's one of the team best deep shooters and also that's where the coach wants him on a myriad of plays.
I'm in no way in favor of what the kings got back for cousins, but listening to Vlade, he thinks of it as 1) 2016 first round pick #6, 2) 2017 first round pick somewhere in the teens, 3) retaining their own first round pick, etc.
So 3 first round picks they didn't have.
I don't think having 3 young guys with 3 or 4 young guys already not contributing much is a recipe for anything but 5-7 years of futility, but I don't need to argue that here.
So 3 first round picks they didn't have.
I don't think having 3 young guys with 3 or 4 young guys already not contributing much is a recipe for anything but 5-7 years of futility, but I don't need to argue that here.
Exactly so what happens when Feagan represents one of the top draft choices we like? Is Vlade going to continue sitting on his high horse and skip any player that wont workout for us or is repped by Feagans agency?
So many issues and incompetence across this organization this is way worse than anything the magoofs or PDA ever did.
So many issues and incompetence across this organization this is way worse than anything the magoofs or PDA ever did.
He not supposed to make commitments then renege. There's a big difference in being non-committal or even purposely vague, as Geoff Petrie used to do, and what Vlade/Vivek just did.
The above is negotiating in bad faith. Vivek/PDA already did it to Rudy Gay and now Vivek/Vlade pulled the same tactic on Boogie.
This is bad news for a small market team already at a disadvantage in luring draft prospects to workout for them and worthwhile FA's to even consider visiting.
The above is not changing culture. And it has done exponentially more damage than anything Cousins managed in 7 years.
The above is negotiating in bad faith. Vivek/PDA already did it to Rudy Gay and now Vivek/Vlade pulled the same tactic on Boogie.
This is bad news for a small market team already at a disadvantage in luring draft prospects to workout for them and worthwhile FA's to even consider visiting.
The above is not changing culture. And it has done exponentially more damage than anything Cousins managed in 7 years.
well one thing they are is consistent. they lied to rudy, they lied to demarcus, they lied to the media, and they lied to the fans. im sure im missing others but you get the gist. maybe they should look in the mirror when talking about changing the culture of the team. change should start at the top
The shock of this trade is palpable. The Kings have been one all-star and a cast of journeyman role players for quite awhile. I always assumed that we would get one big-time all-star in return. Now the Kings are back to just a team of average players. Losing Barnes hurts too. The guy played with heart.
So now a few questions. Does Tyrek recover from his knee injuries? How many SG guards can a roster carry? Where is the PG besides Lawson? When do the Kings get some quality big men?
If we could see the flaws in Cousins' mental game, that must be totally obvious to the rest of the league, or we would never have traded him for so little.
So now a few questions. Does Tyrek recover from his knee injuries? How many SG guards can a roster carry? Where is the PG besides Lawson? When do the Kings get some quality big men?
If we could see the flaws in Cousins' mental game, that must be totally obvious to the rest of the league, or we would never have traded him for so little.
I think one key culprit in all of this insanity is the New NBA Collective Bargaining Agreement.
The very rule that was supposed to help small market teams retain their star players, the Designated Franchise Player tag, I think helped cause the panicked decision on this stupid, ridiculous DMC trade. Honestly, how many small market teams can afford to pay one player $42 million a year.
Once the price tag jumped from $25-28 million per year to $42 million a year in the new CBA, I think the FO and Vivek started to get cold feet and panicked.
Suddenly, DMC trade market dried up... not many teams would trade for DMC, with his volatility, knowing he wanted that max deal....
DMC on a $25 million deal, I think his trade market would have been great.... DMC on a $36-42 million deal, not so much....
All in all, Vlade is in way over his head as GM... he should have telegraphed this problem once the new CBA came out, instead of making a panicked decision and then admitting that this deal was "not even the best offer he had".... how amateurish can someone get.... if you got duped by N.O., why the hell would you admit to the world that you screwed up even more for passing up a better deal 48 hrs earlier.... complete incompetence in my mind.... now, basically
every GM in the NBA knows that Vlade is an idiot.... just shut the f$%# up and defend your stupid decision, don't make yourself look even more foolish....
The problem starts with Vivek and his desire to F$#% think "outside the box".... instead of hiring a competent GM, he hires newbies like PDA and Vlade.... Why don't you Freaking hire someone who has the qualifications for the GM job, you Freaking moron..... Vlade should have been the Kings ambassador, not the GM... This is on Vivek for the hire... its one thing to trade your franchise player, but the deal sucked rocks and will go down as one of the worst trades in NBA history...
Whoooo.... I feel better now (kinda).
The very rule that was supposed to help small market teams retain their star players, the Designated Franchise Player tag, I think helped cause the panicked decision on this stupid, ridiculous DMC trade. Honestly, how many small market teams can afford to pay one player $42 million a year.
Once the price tag jumped from $25-28 million per year to $42 million a year in the new CBA, I think the FO and Vivek started to get cold feet and panicked.
Suddenly, DMC trade market dried up... not many teams would trade for DMC, with his volatility, knowing he wanted that max deal....
DMC on a $25 million deal, I think his trade market would have been great.... DMC on a $36-42 million deal, not so much....
All in all, Vlade is in way over his head as GM... he should have telegraphed this problem once the new CBA came out, instead of making a panicked decision and then admitting that this deal was "not even the best offer he had".... how amateurish can someone get.... if you got duped by N.O., why the hell would you admit to the world that you screwed up even more for passing up a better deal 48 hrs earlier.... complete incompetence in my mind.... now, basically
every GM in the NBA knows that Vlade is an idiot.... just shut the f$%# up and defend your stupid decision, don't make yourself look even more foolish....
The problem starts with Vivek and his desire to F$#% think "outside the box".... instead of hiring a competent GM, he hires newbies like PDA and Vlade.... Why don't you Freaking hire someone who has the qualifications for the GM job, you Freaking moron..... Vlade should have been the Kings ambassador, not the GM... This is on Vivek for the hire... its one thing to trade your franchise player, but the deal sucked rocks and will go down as one of the worst trades in NBA history...
Whoooo.... I feel better now (kinda).
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Agreed, Cousins has put up excellent numbers and some fine performances for us. But unless we could have acquired an Anthony Davis calibre player, or acquired a couple of borderline all stars and complete with the line up with solid players, then our ceiling was probably no more than .500, which is a shame because I would have loved to have seen cousins lead us to that championship.
Him and AD have the potential to cause havoc if they stay healthy and click.
Him and AD have the potential to cause havoc if they stay healthy and click.
This franchise cannot get out of its own way. Vivek is a schizophrenic idiot that thinks he known everything and Vlade is an incompetent fool that is willing to be a lap puppy yes man to a raving lunatic so that he can earn a pay cheque!
You can give this franchise 10, #1 picks for the next century and they would still find a way to **** it up in a major way! This franchise will never progress on the court as long as Vivek is in charge and Vlade is prepared to be what he is.
One thing that is not getting anywhere near the attention it should is that we just burnt the most powerful player agent in the NBA. Do you think he will ever forget? Do you think that superstars of future years will not sign with him? Make no mistake that this whole decision and yet another **** up by schizophrenic incompetency will haunt this franchise for years to come, if not decades.
You can give this franchise 10, #1 picks for the next century and they would still find a way to **** it up in a major way! This franchise will never progress on the court as long as Vivek is in charge and Vlade is prepared to be what he is.
One thing that is not getting anywhere near the attention it should is that we just burnt the most powerful player agent in the NBA. Do you think he will ever forget? Do you think that superstars of future years will not sign with him? Make no mistake that this whole decision and yet another **** up by schizophrenic incompetency will haunt this franchise for years to come, if not decades.