Trade deadline approaching for Kings
- Thread starter dude12
- Start date
If and I stress if, the Kings start winning and playing consistently like they have last 2-3 games, do the Kings still look to trade DC and or Koufos and or Afflalo? I believe if they could find a deal trading Ben for a pick, they do that in a heartbeat. But the other guys.....if they are in the running for a playoff spot, I think they won't trade these guys.....the desire to make the playoffs is so great, I think they keep the current rotation intact.
I would. Our 1st next year is more important than a playoff appearance this year.
It goes against traditional wisdom, but when you look at the talent we have, it's pretty clear this team doesn't have what it takes to become a playoff contender a couple years from now. The young asset, potential star, or whatever you want to call it is more valuable to this team in the long term. I'd still do the trades I mentioned earlier leading to this team next year:
PG - Payne / Satoransky
SG - Bogdanovic / Richardson / Brewer
SF - Oubre / Afflalo / Barnes / Gay
PF - Labissiere / Tolliver / House
C - Cousins / Papagiannis
***2017 1st & 2018 1st***
Payne, Bogdanovic, Richardson, Oubre, Labissiere, Papagiannis, Cousins, 2017 1st, & 2018 1st should be the core of this team going forward. That's 9 players right there who have good potential. Then in the 2018 offseason, you have $40+ mil in cap space with that core on the books & Cousins maxed. Would you not feel wayyyyyy more confident in our abilities to one day compete for a championship rather than banking on Bogdanovic, Richardson, Labissiere, Cauley-Stein, Papagiannis, Cousins, & 2018 1st (2 of which are SGs & 4 of which are big men)? Some like to assume that it will be all roses if we make the playoffs and that we'll be able to sign a 2nd star next to Cousins. We have never been a FA destination for stars not even during the golden era. Why do would we expect a sub .500 8th seed to change anything?
We have to rely on the draft and taking chances on young guys through trades in hopes to develop the 2nd star we need. Relying on FA for this type of player is an idiotic outlook when you're the GM of the Kings. That's not to say you don't try, but if that's plan A, you're in for a rude awakening.
EDIT: And if we drafted Ntilikina with our pick, we would potentially have a starting lineup of Ntilikina, Richardson, Oubre, Labissiere, & Cousins. The size & length of that roster would be pretty crazy...
Height
Ntilikina = 6'5"
Richardson = 6'6"
Oubre = 6'7"
Labissiere = 7'0"
Cousins = 6'11"
Wingspan
Ntilikina = 7'0" (supposedly)
Richardson = 7'0"
Oubre = 7'2.25"
Labissiere = 7'2.5"
Cousins = 7'5.75"
Yeah, you read that right. We could have an entire starting lineup with a 7'0"+ wingspan! That is absolutely nuts! Good luck trying to thread the needle with passes on that defense...
It goes against traditional wisdom, but when you look at the talent we have, it's pretty clear this team doesn't have what it takes to become a playoff contender a couple years from now. The young asset, potential star, or whatever you want to call it is more valuable to this team in the long term. I'd still do the trades I mentioned earlier leading to this team next year:
PG - Payne / Satoransky
SG - Bogdanovic / Richardson / Brewer
SF - Oubre / Afflalo / Barnes / Gay
PF - Labissiere / Tolliver / House
C - Cousins / Papagiannis
***2017 1st & 2018 1st***
Payne, Bogdanovic, Richardson, Oubre, Labissiere, Papagiannis, Cousins, 2017 1st, & 2018 1st should be the core of this team going forward. That's 9 players right there who have good potential. Then in the 2018 offseason, you have $40+ mil in cap space with that core on the books & Cousins maxed. Would you not feel wayyyyyy more confident in our abilities to one day compete for a championship rather than banking on Bogdanovic, Richardson, Labissiere, Cauley-Stein, Papagiannis, Cousins, & 2018 1st (2 of which are SGs & 4 of which are big men)? Some like to assume that it will be all roses if we make the playoffs and that we'll be able to sign a 2nd star next to Cousins. We have never been a FA destination for stars not even during the golden era. Why do would we expect a sub .500 8th seed to change anything?
We have to rely on the draft and taking chances on young guys through trades in hopes to develop the 2nd star we need. Relying on FA for this type of player is an idiotic outlook when you're the GM of the Kings. That's not to say you don't try, but if that's plan A, you're in for a rude awakening.
EDIT: And if we drafted Ntilikina with our pick, we would potentially have a starting lineup of Ntilikina, Richardson, Oubre, Labissiere, & Cousins. The size & length of that roster would be pretty crazy...
Height
Ntilikina = 6'5"
Richardson = 6'6"
Oubre = 6'7"
Labissiere = 7'0"
Cousins = 6'11"
Wingspan
Ntilikina = 7'0" (supposedly)
Richardson = 7'0"
Oubre = 7'2.25"
Labissiere = 7'2.5"
Cousins = 7'5.75"
Yeah, you read that right. We could have an entire starting lineup with a 7'0"+ wingspan! That is absolutely nuts! Good luck trying to thread the needle with passes on that defense...
Last edited:
33 mins ago – via ESPN
For the Sacramento front office, taking inventory of basketball assets naturally starts with the All-Star center, who is under contract through the 2017-18 season. When asked to characterize the Kings’ plan — be it keeping the roster intact to make a run for the postseason, blowing up the roster with the exception of Cousins, blowing up the roster starting with Cousins — Divac and assistant GM Ken Catanella demur at anything definitive. “We’re in the information-gathering stage,” Catanella says. “Right now it’s about getting the machine up and working.” Still, sources with intimate knowledge of the Kings say Ranadive won’t entertain the prospect of dealing Cousins.
Is information gathering code for we have no plan or clue?
For the Sacramento front office, taking inventory of basketball assets naturally starts with the All-Star center, who is under contract through the 2017-18 season. When asked to characterize the Kings’ plan — be it keeping the roster intact to make a run for the postseason, blowing up the roster with the exception of Cousins, blowing up the roster starting with Cousins — Divac and assistant GM Ken Catanella demur at anything definitive. “We’re in the information-gathering stage,” Catanella says. “Right now it’s about getting the machine up and working.” Still, sources with intimate knowledge of the Kings say Ranadive won’t entertain the prospect of dealing Cousins.
Is information gathering code for we have no plan or clue?
`"Information gathering." That's an interesting phrase that might mean exactly what it sounds like and is a code phrase for nothing. Joerger definitely needed to gather information especially as to this odd creature named Boogie. Is he bad news or good news? We have learned that Cousins, whether he is hitting his shots or not, fits into this offense and seems to be a team man. Bingo! Question answered. Most teams need two stars if not three. We have one. ONE!!! He feels the burden which perhaps is neither here nor there. What is amazing is that we can compete at all. My view is that we need another stud of the level of Gay yet who fits the offense and defense. Rudy does not.
There are some unknown areas that presented themselves from day one. Can Afflalo contribute at a $12 mil a year rate? Can Tolliver contribute? Who's this Temple guy? Will WCS pull his head out of his rear and use his massive physical skills in a way to help the team? Is KK useful on a team with a bunch of tall people licking their chops to take his place. Whither goest our pgs. And what of Young Ben?
I'll start with what I consider the easy answers. I think Afflalo and Ben can move on. Whether this is by trade or simply let them go makes little difference although I can't imagine anyone trading a $12 mil player for Afflalo. Let them both go. Let us build up a huge amount of money to try to get our first free agent of note since Adam found Eve. Also, I do not think Tolliver is essential but I am warming up to him.
WCS and Malachi are surprises. I am surprised at the smooth confidence of Malachi and am surprised (a little) that WCS seems to be fitting in. If we think about him carefully, we must conclude that a guy with his physical abilities should eventually fit in somewhere unless he has some mental health issues.
The pgs seem to be settling themselves out although I want a starter who is a real stud. In any case they are not useless. I think it took a bit of coaching to figure out how to use these two.
I always come back to our need for another star. Boogie can't do it all. I have no answers. This is where you folks who like to fiddle with the player personnel might come up with something. Let it not be complicated as we have the makings of a team already.
There are some unknown areas that presented themselves from day one. Can Afflalo contribute at a $12 mil a year rate? Can Tolliver contribute? Who's this Temple guy? Will WCS pull his head out of his rear and use his massive physical skills in a way to help the team? Is KK useful on a team with a bunch of tall people licking their chops to take his place. Whither goest our pgs. And what of Young Ben?
I'll start with what I consider the easy answers. I think Afflalo and Ben can move on. Whether this is by trade or simply let them go makes little difference although I can't imagine anyone trading a $12 mil player for Afflalo. Let them both go. Let us build up a huge amount of money to try to get our first free agent of note since Adam found Eve. Also, I do not think Tolliver is essential but I am warming up to him.
WCS and Malachi are surprises. I am surprised at the smooth confidence of Malachi and am surprised (a little) that WCS seems to be fitting in. If we think about him carefully, we must conclude that a guy with his physical abilities should eventually fit in somewhere unless he has some mental health issues.
The pgs seem to be settling themselves out although I want a starter who is a real stud. In any case they are not useless. I think it took a bit of coaching to figure out how to use these two.
I always come back to our need for another star. Boogie can't do it all. I have no answers. This is where you folks who like to fiddle with the player personnel might come up with something. Let it not be complicated as we have the makings of a team already.
.
I know that we as Kings fans have been starved of any sort of success and to some point stability (except for season and a bit under Malone) but people need to realize a few things and look at the more holistic view of the situation.
Current front office regime and the coaching staff have been in place for a few months. For the first time in over a decade we have our front office and coaching staff "not on the same page but on the same book" to quote Vlade Divac. Catanella comes as a highly recommended operator who spent a significant amount of time with the NBA before venturing into the franchise land.
There absolutely is a plan in place but some are too blind to see it. This franchise does not have anything to show for their picks since the Cousins draft. That is 5 years of SFA. If people can't see what this front office tried to do last off-season starting with the draft, then I seriously question their basketball acumen. For a veteran that wanted out and just stunk up the place in the time he was here (Belinelli) and our first round pick, we managed to turn that into 4 first round picks to try and lessen the blow of blowing 5 drafts after drafting Cousins. For those screaming at the top of their lungs "all they care about is making the play offs and to hell with the future" I ask you why the **** would they want to get 4 rookies (3 this year, 1 next year) on to the roster if the only thing they wanted was to make the playoffs this year?! It makes no sense.
The off-season signings to me scream these things:
- cap flexibility
- locker room presence
- self made men (Barnes, Tolliver, Temple) - players that had to compete and work their tails off to carve out solid NBA careers for them. These are the sort of qualities you want around if you want to build a culture of being being gritty and competing no matter what.
As Catanella pointed out earlier in the season, yes we want to make the playoffs but we are also looking at the long term success of the franchise. I am not sure why "Information gathering stage" means we have no plan. On the contrary, it indicates there is a plan because you are evaluating whether it is a good move or not. There is no doubt that Rudy's injury has thrown the spanner in the works a bit because I am sure we were looking to cash in on that chip at some point. Now not only are we not going to cash in on it but he might be on the books next season as well.
Part of being in the information gathering stage is working out if you are going to go ahead with Cousins. It seems to me that this question has been answered given the extension talk. The next question is who can play with him? If you think WCS can be his partner in crime up front, then you look at what other players fit well around those two? If WCS is your big guy next to Cousins is Collison or Lawson a better PG to go ahead with? If you make a call there then one of them might get traded for an asset that will help you in the long term. Then do we think we will be OK for the long term at SG with Temple, Richardson and Bogdanovic etc...etc...
If anything this front office with Divac and Catanella has been calculating, patient and deliberate in their approach to drafting, free agency and trading so far which clearly indicates to me that they do have a plan. The plan is not to blow it up but the plan is to compete and rebuild while doing so. Will it be easy? No it will not but it is not going to be impossible either. Plenty of teams out there have been rebuilt while staying competitive and then going on to win a championship. Pistons are the first that come to mind.
Make smart moves, draft well and be smart with FA signings and before you know it you just might be there. It does require patience and sometimes that is difficult to ask for from fans who have been starved of any sort of success for a decade but you have to keep in mind that this front office and coaching group as currently constructed have been together for a few months only. Let them do their thing and it will turn. At the very least, they all seem to be on the same page, including the franchise player and the coaching staff. The locker room is united. These players compete just about every night and they have pulled off some pretty sweet wins this season but also lost some games that they should have won. The team is learning the new system, the players are getting better in that system and we are seeing improvements in players including Cousins himself who is actually making players around him better.
I know that we as Kings fans have been starved of any sort of success and to some point stability (except for season and a bit under Malone) but people need to realize a few things and look at the more holistic view of the situation.
Current front office regime and the coaching staff have been in place for a few months. For the first time in over a decade we have our front office and coaching staff "not on the same page but on the same book" to quote Vlade Divac. Catanella comes as a highly recommended operator who spent a significant amount of time with the NBA before venturing into the franchise land.
There absolutely is a plan in place but some are too blind to see it. This franchise does not have anything to show for their picks since the Cousins draft. That is 5 years of SFA. If people can't see what this front office tried to do last off-season starting with the draft, then I seriously question their basketball acumen. For a veteran that wanted out and just stunk up the place in the time he was here (Belinelli) and our first round pick, we managed to turn that into 4 first round picks to try and lessen the blow of blowing 5 drafts after drafting Cousins. For those screaming at the top of their lungs "all they care about is making the play offs and to hell with the future" I ask you why the **** would they want to get 4 rookies (3 this year, 1 next year) on to the roster if the only thing they wanted was to make the playoffs this year?! It makes no sense.
The off-season signings to me scream these things:
- cap flexibility
- locker room presence
- self made men (Barnes, Tolliver, Temple) - players that had to compete and work their tails off to carve out solid NBA careers for them. These are the sort of qualities you want around if you want to build a culture of being being gritty and competing no matter what.
As Catanella pointed out earlier in the season, yes we want to make the playoffs but we are also looking at the long term success of the franchise. I am not sure why "Information gathering stage" means we have no plan. On the contrary, it indicates there is a plan because you are evaluating whether it is a good move or not. There is no doubt that Rudy's injury has thrown the spanner in the works a bit because I am sure we were looking to cash in on that chip at some point. Now not only are we not going to cash in on it but he might be on the books next season as well.
Part of being in the information gathering stage is working out if you are going to go ahead with Cousins. It seems to me that this question has been answered given the extension talk. The next question is who can play with him? If you think WCS can be his partner in crime up front, then you look at what other players fit well around those two? If WCS is your big guy next to Cousins is Collison or Lawson a better PG to go ahead with? If you make a call there then one of them might get traded for an asset that will help you in the long term. Then do we think we will be OK for the long term at SG with Temple, Richardson and Bogdanovic etc...etc...
If anything this front office with Divac and Catanella has been calculating, patient and deliberate in their approach to drafting, free agency and trading so far which clearly indicates to me that they do have a plan. The plan is not to blow it up but the plan is to compete and rebuild while doing so. Will it be easy? No it will not but it is not going to be impossible either. Plenty of teams out there have been rebuilt while staying competitive and then going on to win a championship. Pistons are the first that come to mind.
Make smart moves, draft well and be smart with FA signings and before you know it you just might be there. It does require patience and sometimes that is difficult to ask for from fans who have been starved of any sort of success for a decade but you have to keep in mind that this front office and coaching group as currently constructed have been together for a few months only. Let them do their thing and it will turn. At the very least, they all seem to be on the same page, including the franchise player and the coaching staff. The locker room is united. These players compete just about every night and they have pulled off some pretty sweet wins this season but also lost some games that they should have won. The team is learning the new system, the players are getting better in that system and we are seeing improvements in players including Cousins himself who is actually making players around him better.
Ok the front office and coaches are on the same page for once, I guess thats an accomplishment for the Kings, when its simple procedure for other franchises.
So the obvious goal is to build for the future yet be competitive or make the playoffs.....but we are playing guys who are old and on short term deals while sitting the very rooks that need to be ready to play, we are in danger of losing our top pick in a loaded draft. For people who say screw the draft lets win as much as we can.....the draft is the only way a small market can add significant talent!
So what happens when both of these goals conflict?
IF you want to get into the playoffs you get aggressive on the trade market and focus on winning you make deals to win now.....IF you want to build up 3 rookies and possibly another two coming in how do you approach the trade market? What happens when rookies need playing time but your 1 game out of the 8 seed? which goal do you pursue?
We are stuck in the worst position an nba team can be in. Going all in to win, not winning and not developing (last two games aside). The real goal that needs to be pursued is building a proper foundation around Cuz. But we are playing vets who may not be here in a year and might cost us that pick while keeping us out of the playoffs.
You cant properly have both goals unless your the spurs and have the talent to be top seed regardless of what your young guys do in a year or two. We NEED the young guys to be good asap if we are keeping Cuz.
Off season moves scream nothing but we got whoever would take a close to fair deal from us. We did not have much of choice in my opinion and based on production we overpaid.
As a kings fan I really hope your right in that this FO is calculate and deliberate, I don't see it. Im done being a blind optimistic , things need to make sense based on how well the moves made have worked out and alot of moves for vlade have not worked out. kings fans have been thru this BS before with FOs telling us they have a plan but being clueless so we know the early signs when moves are looking like busts and goals are conflicting.
So the obvious goal is to build for the future yet be competitive or make the playoffs.....but we are playing guys who are old and on short term deals while sitting the very rooks that need to be ready to play, we are in danger of losing our top pick in a loaded draft. For people who say screw the draft lets win as much as we can.....the draft is the only way a small market can add significant talent!
So what happens when both of these goals conflict?
IF you want to get into the playoffs you get aggressive on the trade market and focus on winning you make deals to win now.....IF you want to build up 3 rookies and possibly another two coming in how do you approach the trade market? What happens when rookies need playing time but your 1 game out of the 8 seed? which goal do you pursue?
We are stuck in the worst position an nba team can be in. Going all in to win, not winning and not developing (last two games aside). The real goal that needs to be pursued is building a proper foundation around Cuz. But we are playing vets who may not be here in a year and might cost us that pick while keeping us out of the playoffs.
You cant properly have both goals unless your the spurs and have the talent to be top seed regardless of what your young guys do in a year or two. We NEED the young guys to be good asap if we are keeping Cuz.
Off season moves scream nothing but we got whoever would take a close to fair deal from us. We did not have much of choice in my opinion and based on production we overpaid.
As a kings fan I really hope your right in that this FO is calculate and deliberate, I don't see it. Im done being a blind optimistic , things need to make sense based on how well the moves made have worked out and alot of moves for vlade have not worked out. kings fans have been thru this BS before with FOs telling us they have a plan but being clueless so we know the early signs when moves are looking like busts and goals are conflicting.
With all due respects, this either or approach is very short cited.
You have your 76ers model of sucking, collecting assets and hoping that one day you strike it big in the draft so that you can move forward. Many teams out there are rebult on the fly. In fact most of the play off teams are built on the fly. People need to realise that just because kids are not playing much, it doesn't mean that they are not getting development time put into them behind the scenes. Look at WCS. He barely got on the court early in the season and when he did, he looked lost out there. Compare that to what you have seen last 4 games. Chalk and cheese. It's not like he was riding the bench and not getting any work done. Same for Malachi. Early on in the year he would have been defensive liability but he worked on that weakness behind the scenes, getting ready and when the coaching staff saw that he was ready, they started sprinkling in his minutes.
You question the value of our signings but there is more to them than just their on court production. If you paid attention earlier on in the season you would have seen Malachi sitting next to Temple on the bench all the time. Temple is constantly talking to him and pointing out things on the court. That is also a big part of the education. Similar thing with Tolliver and Skal and WCS.
The issue with this team for years has been player development and part of that is having veterans on the team that are teaching the kids the right way to play and part of it is throwing them to the wolves before they are absolutely ready to step up and be productive. Just because someone is a good player, it doesn't mean they are also good teachers.
The veterans we brought in are largely self made men. Men that had to work their tails off to carve out a solid career in the NBA for them. That with itself brings characteristics of hard workers, team men and defensive scrappers and if you ask me those are absolutely key elements in developing players. Who was there for McLemore to learn off?
You are correct that drafting well is key to having a successful small market franchise but trading is just as important. Look at the team from the golden era of Kings and most of those were traded onto the team. There is more than one way to get it done. We have some good young talent that will fit well with Cousins but they will take time. Pushing for playoffs is important for a number of reasons. It would be nice to keep the pick as well because it is another asset but it becomes worthless if you land another Ben McLemore. Making the playoffs would be huge from a number of aspects. It changes the losing mindset, makes player hungrier, increases expectations, chanfes the perception around the league and puts you back on the NBA map where those 2nd tier FA might actually start considering Sacramento because we are no longer a laughing stock.
We threw McLemore and Stauskas to the wolves and that worked out brilliantly for us.
You have your 76ers model of sucking, collecting assets and hoping that one day you strike it big in the draft so that you can move forward. Many teams out there are rebult on the fly. In fact most of the play off teams are built on the fly. People need to realise that just because kids are not playing much, it doesn't mean that they are not getting development time put into them behind the scenes. Look at WCS. He barely got on the court early in the season and when he did, he looked lost out there. Compare that to what you have seen last 4 games. Chalk and cheese. It's not like he was riding the bench and not getting any work done. Same for Malachi. Early on in the year he would have been defensive liability but he worked on that weakness behind the scenes, getting ready and when the coaching staff saw that he was ready, they started sprinkling in his minutes.
You question the value of our signings but there is more to them than just their on court production. If you paid attention earlier on in the season you would have seen Malachi sitting next to Temple on the bench all the time. Temple is constantly talking to him and pointing out things on the court. That is also a big part of the education. Similar thing with Tolliver and Skal and WCS.
The issue with this team for years has been player development and part of that is having veterans on the team that are teaching the kids the right way to play and part of it is throwing them to the wolves before they are absolutely ready to step up and be productive. Just because someone is a good player, it doesn't mean they are also good teachers.
The veterans we brought in are largely self made men. Men that had to work their tails off to carve out a solid career in the NBA for them. That with itself brings characteristics of hard workers, team men and defensive scrappers and if you ask me those are absolutely key elements in developing players. Who was there for McLemore to learn off?
You are correct that drafting well is key to having a successful small market franchise but trading is just as important. Look at the team from the golden era of Kings and most of those were traded onto the team. There is more than one way to get it done. We have some good young talent that will fit well with Cousins but they will take time. Pushing for playoffs is important for a number of reasons. It would be nice to keep the pick as well because it is another asset but it becomes worthless if you land another Ben McLemore. Making the playoffs would be huge from a number of aspects. It changes the losing mindset, makes player hungrier, increases expectations, chanfes the perception around the league and puts you back on the NBA map where those 2nd tier FA might actually start considering Sacramento because we are no longer a laughing stock.
We threw McLemore and Stauskas to the wolves and that worked out brilliantly for us.
Does planning for the future and trying to win now, have to be either/or? Does trying to do both, hinder the immediate progress of both. Would it be better to go all in on one or the other? Lets start by being honest and admitting that going all in on one, doesn't guarantee success, regardless of which one you choose. Would going all in on trying to win now shortchange our future? I think there's a good chance of that.
From my point of view, I don't like anything done halfa$$. I believe you have to pick a path and stay on it. Something the Kings haven't done in some time. Your never going to get where your going if you keep changing the capt of the ship. And, you can't have more than one capt. When the owner overrules the capt, you could have the same results of the Titanic. Bad luck perhaps, but bad luck seems to follow bad decisions. If you never change the oil in your car, is it bad luck when the engine blows up?
I have my opinion on which path they should follow, but then I'm locked into my own personal biases. So all I'll say is that I think they need to choose one, and go all in. If it's win now, then our trading the 8th pick for essentially three 1st round picks should have been different. We should have traded that pick for a young established player that could play now. However, if we're all in for the future, then make the same trade and then do everything you can to tank the season. Immediately trade Gay for another 1st round pick, perhaps in the future, and a young player with potential. Fill in the rest with expiring's.
It appears to me that the Kings are trying to please everyone, and that's impossible. Or perhaps there's no method to their madness. I don't want to believe that. I want to believe in Vlade. So let me ask a question. What exactly do we gain from making the playoffs? We do gain at least a couple nationally televised games at Golden One center. The Kings pick up a few million dollars from attendance and whatever. The players get to experience what playoff basketball is like, and I guess we get to brag that we made the playoffs.
At the end of the season, it's possible that Collison, Lawson, Afflalo, Casspi, Tolliver, McLemore, Barnes and maybe Gay, will all be gone from the team. The only players guaranteed to be on the team next season right now, barring trades, are Cousins, Koufos, Willie Cauley-Stein, Temple, Richardson, Labissiere, Papagiannis, and probably Bogdonavic. That would leave us with four veteran players and one of them would be Willie. So what will we have gained from making the playoffs? Just curious.
From my point of view, I don't like anything done halfa$$. I believe you have to pick a path and stay on it. Something the Kings haven't done in some time. Your never going to get where your going if you keep changing the capt of the ship. And, you can't have more than one capt. When the owner overrules the capt, you could have the same results of the Titanic. Bad luck perhaps, but bad luck seems to follow bad decisions. If you never change the oil in your car, is it bad luck when the engine blows up?
I have my opinion on which path they should follow, but then I'm locked into my own personal biases. So all I'll say is that I think they need to choose one, and go all in. If it's win now, then our trading the 8th pick for essentially three 1st round picks should have been different. We should have traded that pick for a young established player that could play now. However, if we're all in for the future, then make the same trade and then do everything you can to tank the season. Immediately trade Gay for another 1st round pick, perhaps in the future, and a young player with potential. Fill in the rest with expiring's.
It appears to me that the Kings are trying to please everyone, and that's impossible. Or perhaps there's no method to their madness. I don't want to believe that. I want to believe in Vlade. So let me ask a question. What exactly do we gain from making the playoffs? We do gain at least a couple nationally televised games at Golden One center. The Kings pick up a few million dollars from attendance and whatever. The players get to experience what playoff basketball is like, and I guess we get to brag that we made the playoffs.
At the end of the season, it's possible that Collison, Lawson, Afflalo, Casspi, Tolliver, McLemore, Barnes and maybe Gay, will all be gone from the team. The only players guaranteed to be on the team next season right now, barring trades, are Cousins, Koufos, Willie Cauley-Stein, Temple, Richardson, Labissiere, Papagiannis, and probably Bogdonavic. That would leave us with four veteran players and one of them would be Willie. So what will we have gained from making the playoffs? Just curious.
Sure it's possible. They likely would just waive the physical. But Rudy isn't expiring. He can opt out at the end of the year. With his achilles injury, I think there is no chance he will be opting out. That means he is still owed 1 more year at 13 million. He'll likely have some value next year as an expiring, I guess. But I can't imagine that value will bring in anything significant.
edit: Rudy is owned 14.2 million next year.
edit: Rudy is owned 14.2 million next year.
The way I see it, there was no clear way to choose this summer, and what was chosen was the only option.
We ARE rebuilding, but we cannot allow ourselves to blow things up.
To go win now, Kings would have to get not one, but several very good players, and considering how desirable Kings are as a destination and could not overpay for a single semi-star over the past two off-seasons, I do not see how would that be possible.
To go for a full rebuild, that would require not just trading Cuz, but another 3-4 years of heavy sucking for the younglings to get up to NBA speed.
After self inflicting wounds over past 5-6 years, adding 3-4 for a very unpredictable path... well patience is already thin, do not see this faring well for the franchise.
With this "half-assed" approach, we got 4 young guys that we can groom.
While not high skill quality, we have a team with NBA level veteran players (admittedly mostly bench quality) that is fighting and competing nightly and is as homogenous and in better moral now than in any January I can think of in the past 7-8 years. By keeping an eye on the playoff, this fighting underdog environment is very good for the development of the players, re-introduces Kings as a team that has a vision to the rest of the league/free agents, and making a playoff would be just the cream on the top.
Compared to the last year this time the only similarity is record, the team as a concept did not exist anymore and there was no stability or idea what will happen next what so ever.
Long way to go, slowly building the new identity, but imho making playoff or just simply staying together as a team is more important than another draft pick this year.
Still way faster than a full blowup.
The guys you listed that are staying after this year ARE the guys that matter, and getting them to fight for the playoff or just learn from the vets that fight for the playoff is worth it compared to tanking or sucking another 3-4 years.
We ARE rebuilding, but we cannot allow ourselves to blow things up.
To go win now, Kings would have to get not one, but several very good players, and considering how desirable Kings are as a destination and could not overpay for a single semi-star over the past two off-seasons, I do not see how would that be possible.
To go for a full rebuild, that would require not just trading Cuz, but another 3-4 years of heavy sucking for the younglings to get up to NBA speed.
After self inflicting wounds over past 5-6 years, adding 3-4 for a very unpredictable path... well patience is already thin, do not see this faring well for the franchise.
With this "half-assed" approach, we got 4 young guys that we can groom.
While not high skill quality, we have a team with NBA level veteran players (admittedly mostly bench quality) that is fighting and competing nightly and is as homogenous and in better moral now than in any January I can think of in the past 7-8 years. By keeping an eye on the playoff, this fighting underdog environment is very good for the development of the players, re-introduces Kings as a team that has a vision to the rest of the league/free agents, and making a playoff would be just the cream on the top.
Compared to the last year this time the only similarity is record, the team as a concept did not exist anymore and there was no stability or idea what will happen next what so ever.
Long way to go, slowly building the new identity, but imho making playoff or just simply staying together as a team is more important than another draft pick this year.
Still way faster than a full blowup.
The guys you listed that are staying after this year ARE the guys that matter, and getting them to fight for the playoff or just learn from the vets that fight for the playoff is worth it compared to tanking or sucking another 3-4 years.
Rondo plays lazy defense. This wouldn't go well with Joerger. The spacing issue wouldn't be that bad with DMC emerging as a good 3point shooter and the option to play Tolliver or in your case Mirotic at the 4.
But would Rondo be able to beat Lawson for the starting spot?
What's sad is that upgrading our PG spot for next season looks like a really tough task. We could try to sign one of Teague, Hill or Holiday, but their teams have the bird rights and the Kings aren't really a better FA landing spot right now than the Pacers, Utah or Pelicans. After those guys there isn't much left in the FA market, assuming we don't want to pay Rose or go with an aging Williams.
A trade might be a solution, but we don't have valuable trade assets, so we are limited to younger PG's not getting enough minutes or older guys fallen out of the rotation. Tyus Jones in Minny may be one of those younger guys, who might be able to step up when given more minutes. I don't think Tj McConnell would be available, but when the 76ers draft a PG next offseason or view Simmons as a guy similar to Giannis he might be the odd man out. Rozier might very well be available, if the Celtics decide to draft just another PG. We could throw a bunch of young assets at PHX for Bledsoe or try to ressurect Knights career.
So all in all trade scenarios don't look very promising.
And in the end there is the draft. I don't know anything about the upcoming draft class. All I know is, that we are bound in a possible pick swap with the 76ers and lose our pick, when we fall out of the Top10. So the best case scenario looks like a late Top10 pick and with DMC, Vlade, Vivek and Joerger all seeming to be adamant of trying to reach the Playoffs the odds of losing the pick completely are there.
Well with all that in mind, having Rondo for just another season and trying to give him the same kind of treatment Joerger has given Ty Lawson doesn't look that bad all of the sudden.....
I personally would prefer a diamond in the rough from somewhere, that is able to shoot, play D and moves the ball well, but honestly I don't think Vlade is able to come up with a solution outside the known paths.
But would Rondo be able to beat Lawson for the starting spot?
What's sad is that upgrading our PG spot for next season looks like a really tough task. We could try to sign one of Teague, Hill or Holiday, but their teams have the bird rights and the Kings aren't really a better FA landing spot right now than the Pacers, Utah or Pelicans. After those guys there isn't much left in the FA market, assuming we don't want to pay Rose or go with an aging Williams.
A trade might be a solution, but we don't have valuable trade assets, so we are limited to younger PG's not getting enough minutes or older guys fallen out of the rotation. Tyus Jones in Minny may be one of those younger guys, who might be able to step up when given more minutes. I don't think Tj McConnell would be available, but when the 76ers draft a PG next offseason or view Simmons as a guy similar to Giannis he might be the odd man out. Rozier might very well be available, if the Celtics decide to draft just another PG. We could throw a bunch of young assets at PHX for Bledsoe or try to ressurect Knights career.
So all in all trade scenarios don't look very promising.
And in the end there is the draft. I don't know anything about the upcoming draft class. All I know is, that we are bound in a possible pick swap with the 76ers and lose our pick, when we fall out of the Top10. So the best case scenario looks like a late Top10 pick and with DMC, Vlade, Vivek and Joerger all seeming to be adamant of trying to reach the Playoffs the odds of losing the pick completely are there.
Well with all that in mind, having Rondo for just another season and trying to give him the same kind of treatment Joerger has given Ty Lawson doesn't look that bad all of the sudden.....
I personally would prefer a diamond in the rough from somewhere, that is able to shoot, play D and moves the ball well, but honestly I don't think Vlade is able to come up with a solution outside the known paths.
Of course, Chicago would have to accept it, I think Vlade should ask about it at the least.
I think the Bulls would counter with DC and Ben if they had any interest, would hesitate to do it then. I'd package DC in another deal. Cavs maybe, but don't know if they have anything the Kings want.
Kings need to be in asset acquisition mode, Kings get an asset and Bulls get cap room for next year.
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I'm OK if the Kings stand pat at this point. I want to keep Willie, Kosta and the players under contract. Ben is not going to bring much back. If he could be included in a deal with other expiring contracts to bring back a PG who is at least an average defender I would be OK with it. I do not want Rondo back.