Players to watch: 2016/17 college season.
- Thread starter bajaden
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The Kings seriously need to get a lotto pick somehow in this draft... I won't even be mad if it's the 10th overall. This draft is just way too good to be missing a lotto pick. I'll even "settle" for a DeAaron Fox or a Lauri Markkanen.
I know everyone wants the Kings to win games and go for the 8th seed, but what if we just barely fall short, and lose our pick at the same time?
Monk is a really good player. Had an amazing game today.
I know everyone wants the Kings to win games and go for the 8th seed, but what if we just barely fall short, and lose our pick at the same time?
Monk is a really good player. Had an amazing game today.
Lost in Malik Monk's 47-point outburst was a really nice game from Justin Jackson of UNC with his own career high of 34. Unlike Monk, Jackson is looking like a steal on the draft boards right now, being (inexplicably, to me) ranked in the 40s. He's got size, athleticism, talent, and a junkyard dog attitude out there - always moving, always playing hard, getting in a defensive stance. Can stop guards on the perimeter and even slowed down Monk on a few possessions in the game. I think he'll be a huge steal.
JJ is an interesting player. He has the length, athleticism, and talent to be a very good NBA player, but he's never been able to put it together. Was 189lbs in 2013.... 193lbs in 2016. Extremely inconsistent 3pt shooter. Even though he's more on the frail side, he does a lot of scoring inside. He likes his little floater and turn around shots. I just don't think he has the size to get those shots up in the NBA...and you generally don't want your SF settling for floaters in the paint. Another bad thing about Jackson is that despite a a nice chunk of his scoring coming from inside the paint, he doesn't get to the line a lot. On defense, his length helps make up for his lack of size. I think he'll be able to guard most SFs, but they'll ave an advantage over him. As a NBA prospect, he's been pretty underwhelming for a former 5 star recruit. As a college player, he's been really good. With all of this said, Jackson has high bball IQ and is a very good passer. He seems destined for the Spurs...
I think his entire game will come down to how consistently he'll be able to shoot the 3ball.
I think his entire game will come down to how consistently he'll be able to shoot the 3ball.
My problem with Jackson is his inconsistency. Especially with his outside shot. He'll shoot it like he did today, and the next game he'll go zero for seven. Monk on the other hand has been very consistent so far this year. He's a special player who can score in so many different ways. He has a little bit of PG in him as well. He's a very good passer. He and Fox together make up one of the quickest backcourts in college basketball. That was a fun game to watch, but man does Monk have icewater in his veins. I thought Bradley for NC had a good game as well. He's not ready for the NBA, but you can see the potential.
Nothing surprising for anyone who follows college hoops and NBA prospects but this was the top story on realGM this morning.
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/244356/GMs-Calling-2017-NBA-Draft-Strongest-In-A-Decade
Of course the Kings will finally lose their draft pick to Chicago this year. And probably while just falling short of the playoffs too.
Only the Sacramento Kings can be a bottom dwelling franchise for 27 of their 32 seasons and only have a single #1 overall pick in a lousy draft and then finally NOT have a lottery pick in one of the most stacked drafts I can remember.
#kangs
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/244356/GMs-Calling-2017-NBA-Draft-Strongest-In-A-Decade
Of course the Kings will finally lose their draft pick to Chicago this year. And probably while just falling short of the playoffs too.
Only the Sacramento Kings can be a bottom dwelling franchise for 27 of their 32 seasons and only have a single #1 overall pick in a lousy draft and then finally NOT have a lottery pick in one of the most stacked drafts I can remember.
#kangs
I feel like the Kings just can't afford to miss out on this draft. It's such a shame.... elite prospects all over the board. I just don't get it. We have no long-term building blocks around Cousins except for Koufos, WCS, and Temple. As of right now, none of those guys are good enough to be NBA starters. Are we seriously going to screw ourselves out of a draft pick this year? I just don't think it makes sense..especially for a team that's barely been able to pull through every night. Lots of people celebrate about that Jazz win, but the reality is that the Jazz were without their starting PG and SG. Favors was also not at 100%. We barely beat them. Yes we were without Rudy, but a ton of people think we're better without him on our team.
I just can't buy into this false hope of a potential "8th seed". Big FAs never came to Sacramento. RyNO himself, has denied us twice.
I just can't buy into this false hope of a potential "8th seed". Big FAs never came to Sacramento. RyNO himself, has denied us twice.
If we end up with no 1st round picks in this coming draft, I'll go into a depression. This is the kind of draft that I lust for. It will be a giant failure on the part of Kings organization it that happens. I find myself torn when watching Kings games. I find it difficult to not get caught up in a game like last nights game, and hope for a victory. At the same time, I realize that it's fools gold. That making the eighth spot is a hollow victory, because first, were likely to lost four straight to the Warriors in the first round, and second, a significant group of the players that got us into the playoffs could possibly be gone at years end. And if not, we hardly look like a dynasty for the years to come. We will have accomplished nothing.
If we have any intention of trading Cousins, and I can go either way with him ( I'm reaching the tipping point with his antic's), this is the time to make that move. The odds of coming out of this draft with not one, but possibly two future all stars, if you had two picks, are greater in this draft than in any I can remember for a long time. There are players projected to go in the mid teens, that could end up being all stars. If Fox, who is projected to possibly be the 4th PG taken in the coming draft, behind Fultz, Ball, and Smith, was in last years draft, he would probably be a top five pick, maybe top three. I can't decide who is the best SF in this draft. Jackson, Tatum, Bridges, Isaac, or Anunoby. Dillon Brooks went from being a mid to late first round pick at SF last year to being buried somewhere in the 2nd round.
If there was ever a time to make a major move, now is that time...
If there was ever a time to make a major move, now is that time...
We can blame the Maloofs and the Seattle saga. We can blame Geoff Petrie (and possibly the Maloofs again) for Thomas Robinson and especially Jimmer and we can definitely blame Geoff for the Casspi/Hickson trade that has had a lost 1st round pick looming over the Kings heads for years. We can blame PDA and Mullin for running Malone out of town, letting Tyreke and IT leave for nothing and drafting McLemore and Stauskas (1, 2, 3 Nik rocks!) in back-to-back drafts. We can blame Vlade for trading away pick swaps and an unprotected 2019 first rounder for the cap room to sign Wes Matthews and when that didn't work out, Rondo and Belinelli. I'm still a Cauley-Stein fan but until he rebounds more like a 7 foot big man and not a 6 foot PG and plays with a consistent motor and awareness we can also blame Divac for grabbing him instead of some of the higher upside picks that went after him and are having better careers thus far and right now. And if they don't trade Rudy Gay before the deadline and he walks, that would be yet another part of the saga of "Why the Kings are terrible" seasons 27-32
Point being, there's plenty of blame going around. Boogie is far from perfect, but he's a top 10 or maybe top 5 NBA player and really the only player on the Kings roster that I think starts for a contending team with Rudy being the only other possibility as long as he's not asked to be the 1st or 2nd option on offense. He's the most talented player I've ever seen in a Sacramento Kings uniform and I've seen them all - though I was 7 that first season so the early years are a bit fuzzy.
But while I understand a bird in the hand being worth two in the bush and the fear of letting go of the best center in the NBA, I don't see a path forward with Cousins. That's not his fault. That's five (and now possibly six) straight seasons of terrible management. Even hugely positive things like nabbing Thomas with the last pick in the draft is ruined when you let him walk out the door with nothing to show.
After this season Rudy is gone (if he isn't traded which hopefully he is), Casspi, Collison, Lawson, McLemore are FAs too. Afflalo and Tolliver aren't difference makers so the only decision there is if you think you can get two upgrades in free agency for the $20 million in caproom it would take to keep them on the roster. That's 7 of the top 10 players on the roster who will potentially will be gone next offseason. Barnes will be 37 and turn 38 during the season. Koufos has one more year.
If the Kings lose their 2017 draft pick it means they'll only have one first rounder in the next three years for a small market team whose best avenue is to build through the draft and be forced to either keep together this middling team or rebuild again on the fly based on who they can get in free agency. Why would that work out any better next season?
If Ainge really wants Boogie the bidding starts with their pick this year (and the pick swap with Brooklyn that it carries) and Brooklyn's first rounder next season as well as Amir Johnson just for salary cap reasons. Then hopefully you pry away one or more other pieces. Bradley or Crowder? Nice but probably out of reach. Smart? Olynyk? No thanks. Maybe Jaylen Brown and/or Rozier and/or the rights to Zizic.
If the Kings made that trade next week I think they'd struggle to win 20 games. That would likely slot them 4th or 5th. Two top five picks in this draft? Yeah, I'd gamble on that over gambling that they can finally throw the right FA cast offs around Cousins to build a contender.
And moreover. while next years's draft isn't shaping up to be as strong, while this year has great PG and SF prospects, next year's should have a number of talented bigs, including Ayton. And Luka Doncic seems hugely exciting. If he can overcome not being elite athletically there's little he can't do on the court and he's been playing professionally since he was 15.
I never wanted the Kings to trade Cousins. But now I don't see how to ever have anything other than a sub 30 win team unless they do. And it could all backfire. The Kings could end up with two straight years of top 10 (or even top 5) picks and blow all of them. They could be even worse. But being afraid of things getting worse is no reason to settle for a situation where there isn't a path forward to success. That's just being afraid and hedging bets instead of being bold and making confident moves.
But maybe it's just because I've had enough. Last night's game was thrilling. I was up off my couch cheering and clapping. But those moments are far too few and after a while I wonder if it's worth putting so much energy into a team that can't seem to get out of its own way. I'll give Vlade one more offseason. I think he deserves that. But beyond that? I don't know.
Point being, there's plenty of blame going around. Boogie is far from perfect, but he's a top 10 or maybe top 5 NBA player and really the only player on the Kings roster that I think starts for a contending team with Rudy being the only other possibility as long as he's not asked to be the 1st or 2nd option on offense. He's the most talented player I've ever seen in a Sacramento Kings uniform and I've seen them all - though I was 7 that first season so the early years are a bit fuzzy.
But while I understand a bird in the hand being worth two in the bush and the fear of letting go of the best center in the NBA, I don't see a path forward with Cousins. That's not his fault. That's five (and now possibly six) straight seasons of terrible management. Even hugely positive things like nabbing Thomas with the last pick in the draft is ruined when you let him walk out the door with nothing to show.
After this season Rudy is gone (if he isn't traded which hopefully he is), Casspi, Collison, Lawson, McLemore are FAs too. Afflalo and Tolliver aren't difference makers so the only decision there is if you think you can get two upgrades in free agency for the $20 million in caproom it would take to keep them on the roster. That's 7 of the top 10 players on the roster who will potentially will be gone next offseason. Barnes will be 37 and turn 38 during the season. Koufos has one more year.
If the Kings lose their 2017 draft pick it means they'll only have one first rounder in the next three years for a small market team whose best avenue is to build through the draft and be forced to either keep together this middling team or rebuild again on the fly based on who they can get in free agency. Why would that work out any better next season?
If Ainge really wants Boogie the bidding starts with their pick this year (and the pick swap with Brooklyn that it carries) and Brooklyn's first rounder next season as well as Amir Johnson just for salary cap reasons. Then hopefully you pry away one or more other pieces. Bradley or Crowder? Nice but probably out of reach. Smart? Olynyk? No thanks. Maybe Jaylen Brown and/or Rozier and/or the rights to Zizic.
If the Kings made that trade next week I think they'd struggle to win 20 games. That would likely slot them 4th or 5th. Two top five picks in this draft? Yeah, I'd gamble on that over gambling that they can finally throw the right FA cast offs around Cousins to build a contender.
And moreover. while next years's draft isn't shaping up to be as strong, while this year has great PG and SF prospects, next year's should have a number of talented bigs, including Ayton. And Luka Doncic seems hugely exciting. If he can overcome not being elite athletically there's little he can't do on the court and he's been playing professionally since he was 15.
I never wanted the Kings to trade Cousins. But now I don't see how to ever have anything other than a sub 30 win team unless they do. And it could all backfire. The Kings could end up with two straight years of top 10 (or even top 5) picks and blow all of them. They could be even worse. But being afraid of things getting worse is no reason to settle for a situation where there isn't a path forward to success. That's just being afraid and hedging bets instead of being bold and making confident moves.
But maybe it's just because I've had enough. Last night's game was thrilling. I was up off my couch cheering and clapping. But those moments are far too few and after a while I wonder if it's worth putting so much energy into a team that can't seem to get out of its own way. I'll give Vlade one more offseason. I think he deserves that. But beyond that? I don't know.
It seems we are of like mind. I couldn't have listed all the points any better than you did. I've tried to see a way forward with Cousins, and as you said, the result I come up with has nothing to do with Cousins, other than he may be more valuable as an asset than he is as a player on the team. If we continue forward with him, and win enough games to lose our draft pick, playoffs or not, then how do we improve the team enough to become a true contender? As stated, we'll have one first round pick in the next three years, and if that pick is better than Philly's, then they swap with us. And, the majority of the veteran players on the team could be gone at seasons end.
Yes, we'll have a ton of capspace, but other than replacing the players that leave with similar players, what do we have. Maybe, if everything falls into place, another eighth spot finish and out in the first round. Perhaps that's enough for some of the people, but it's not enough for me. No one remembers who comes in eighth. Hell, most people can't remember who came in second. Now on the other hand, if we were to make big move and trade Cousins, and after that move and the draft, followed by free agency, we were to grab the eighth spot in a year or so, then I could get excited. Then we would be competing with a young team that's only going to get better as it matures.
Now being a realist, I wouldn't expect it to happen that quickly, but when you look at how quickly the Warriors turned things around, it can happen! It would be nice to go out and sign, and or draft players that fit the system Joerger is trying to run. I truly wish I could see a way going forward with Cousins, but I can't. Not if the idea is to build a contender. If there is a way, I wish someone would explain it to me.
Yes, we'll have a ton of capspace, but other than replacing the players that leave with similar players, what do we have. Maybe, if everything falls into place, another eighth spot finish and out in the first round. Perhaps that's enough for some of the people, but it's not enough for me. No one remembers who comes in eighth. Hell, most people can't remember who came in second. Now on the other hand, if we were to make big move and trade Cousins, and after that move and the draft, followed by free agency, we were to grab the eighth spot in a year or so, then I could get excited. Then we would be competing with a young team that's only going to get better as it matures.
Now being a realist, I wouldn't expect it to happen that quickly, but when you look at how quickly the Warriors turned things around, it can happen! It would be nice to go out and sign, and or draft players that fit the system Joerger is trying to run. I truly wish I could see a way going forward with Cousins, but I can't. Not if the idea is to build a contender. If there is a way, I wish someone would explain it to me.
Well getting back to taking a look at prospects we may not be able to draft, I thought I mention a player that's been flying under the radar a bit, and that's Caleb Swanigan of Purdue. For the uninformed, he's a 6'9", 250 lb, PF/C. He'll remind you of Cousins a bit with his style of play, and his large build. He can definitely play bully ball, but is also a very good outside shooter. He's currently averaging 18.3 ppg on 59.0% shooting overall, while hitting 54.2% of his shots from the three. As an added bonus he averages 12.5 boards a game, and 3.0 assists a game. In his last game he had 32 pts and grabbed 20 boards. He grabbed 21 boards in the game before that.
He's a sophmore, and is in far better shape this year than he was last, and it's showing. The only knock on him, and maybe the reason why he's not mentioned as much is that he's not the athlete that some of the others are. But you can't argue with his results. He's a big reason, along with Isaac Haas, the 7'2" Center that Purdue is making a big splash in the Big Ten. Here's a short video of his game against Notre Dame.
He's a sophmore, and is in far better shape this year than he was last, and it's showing. The only knock on him, and maybe the reason why he's not mentioned as much is that he's not the athlete that some of the others are. But you can't argue with his results. He's a big reason, along with Isaac Haas, the 7'2" Center that Purdue is making a big splash in the Big Ten. Here's a short video of his game against Notre Dame.
I think a lot of people who haven't kept up with any draft prospects this year are really missing out. I think there's at least 5 potential franchise players alone... If everyone in this thread was asked to name the 14 lotto players, there's a good chance that none of our lists would be the same. That's how crazy good and deep this draft is going to be.
At first, I asked for Lonzo instead of Fultz. Then, I asked for Fox instead of Lonzo. I'll go down lower...and I'll even settle for another big! Robert Williams.... please?
At first, I asked for Lonzo instead of Fultz. Then, I asked for Fox instead of Lonzo. I'll go down lower...and I'll even settle for another big! Robert Williams.... please?
He has impressed me so much this season. He's improved on every single aspect of his game since his rookie year. 38.1% of his shots come from the rim...and he makes it at 81.1%! 46.8% of his shots are "2pt jumpers", and he makes them at 43.1%. He's a good 3pt shooter too. He gets to the line at a very good rate. 6.4FTA/g. On top of being a good scorer, he's a tremendous rebounder who can pass the rock.
The one thing that I absolutely dreaded about him in his freshman year was his extreme lack of bball IQ and awareness. However, he's even improved on the mental aspects of his game. Went from 1.8asts:2.6tos to 3asts:3.4tos. I think the next thing for him is to focus on defense. On offense, he reminds me a lot of 2016 Cousins.
He's an extremely hard working kid. I think he has his own case for POTY.
In this deep draft, I wouldn't be surprised if he did fall anywhere between 20-40.
The one thing that I absolutely dreaded about him in his freshman year was his extreme lack of bball IQ and awareness. However, he's even improved on the mental aspects of his game. Went from 1.8asts:2.6tos to 3asts:3.4tos. I think the next thing for him is to focus on defense. On offense, he reminds me a lot of 2016 Cousins.
He's an extremely hard working kid. I think he has his own case for POTY.
In this deep draft, I wouldn't be surprised if he did fall anywhere between 20-40.
Yeah, his improvement from last year to this year is amazing. He's improved in just about every aspect of his game. He could still be in better shape, but that will come once in the NBA. He's only 6'9", but has a huge wingspan, which helps make up for his lack of vertical. Like Cousins, he's a below the rim player, but has good hands, and while not the fastest player up and down the floor, he certainly gives it his all every time. Zack Randolph is a decent comparison, but he reminds me quite a bit of Cuz from a few years ago.
Peter Jok is having great senior season so far. He's borderline draftable this early in the season, but if he keeps his current level in Conference play, he should be considered a serious prospect. In fact then he would be not far off Hield: every bit as good a shooter, if one considers Buddy's 2 month hot streak for what it was, a hot streak; while not getting as much to the rim, Jok is a better playmaker, who knows his limitations; Jok gets a lot more of his outside shots by using screens, which is much more realistic to work in the NBA than Buddy's step-backs; main advantage for Jok is ability to get from the drive into mid-range jumper in one smooth move, considering everyone knows, that's his preferred outcome.
I think Hield was the better prospect. Hield was a good ball handler who knew how to get to the rim and finish. Jok isn't much of a ball handler and has trouble getting to the rim.
I think Jok should be a serious NBA prospect though. He has good size, and he's a good shooter. Would be a good off-ball player like Klay or Rodney Hood.
I think Jok should be a serious NBA prospect though. He has good size, and he's a good shooter. Would be a good off-ball player like Klay or Rodney Hood.
Hield is useless in the NBA with the ball in his hands, so from NBA standpoint his senior year was pretty much worthless.
Edit: while Jok won't break anyone with his handles, but he runs some P&R, though almost always settling for a mid-ranger, plus he routinely brings up the ball. Main thing is he plays within himself. I will take Hart over him every time, but with him likely being late second-rounder at best, he might be worth a look/small investment, given that Troy Daniels is logging a lot of minutes for .500+ team, and this guy has skills besides elite shooting.
Edit: while Jok won't break anyone with his handles, but he runs some P&R, though almost always settling for a mid-ranger, plus he routinely brings up the ball. Main thing is he plays within himself. I will take Hart over him every time, but with him likely being late second-rounder at best, he might be worth a look/small investment, given that Troy Daniels is logging a lot of minutes for .500+ team, and this guy has skills besides elite shooting.
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Ok, it's becoming a much higher chance that the Kings lose their pick this year.... do you guys think there's any way we could ask Chicago for our pick back? Even something like #12 or even #18 would be a great pick for the Kings. I just don't think we can afford to not have a draft pick this year.
I wonder if something along the lines of Rudy+WCS does it? I think it would. Bulls are fighting for the playoffs. Bulls also need more rim protection. Rudy would automatically be their best 3pt shooter, and he can play PF. WCS is a young prospect for them too. Taj is expiring this year.
I wonder if something along the lines of Rudy+WCS does it? I think it would. Bulls are fighting for the playoffs. Bulls also need more rim protection. Rudy would automatically be their best 3pt shooter, and he can play PF. WCS is a young prospect for them too. Taj is expiring this year.