WOJ: Rudy Gay informs Kings he'll opt out and likely not return

[KingsFanGER]

How do you know we didn't try to sign better players, with or without longer term risk? As far as I know we threw our hat in the ring for Lee and Anderson. This isn't a FA destination

The Pelicans are a FA destination. The Nets are a FA destination. Why not the Kings? Really curious, because everytime I dare to criticize our moves this "SAC is not a FA destination" comes up, as if I somehow demanded we should have signed Lebron James or Kevin Durant.
And if it's true, that SAC is not a possible destination for mid tier FA's like Lee or Lin, than where is the point to hand out 1 year deals to have as much capspace as possible next season?

 

[Kingsfan23]

The Pelicans are a FA destination. The Nets are a FA destination. Why not the Kings? Really curious, because everytime I dare to criticize our moves this "SAC is not a FA destination" comes up, as if I somehow demanded we should have signed Lebron James or Kevin Durant.
And if it's true, that SAC is not a possible destination for mid tier FA's like Lee or Lin, than where is the point to hand out 1 year deals to have as much capspace as possible next season?

We topped projected ESPN's Team Turmoil ranking in a landslide, and if you took a random poll on a neutral basketball site about what team is currently most dysfunctional it would likely be this team, which has impact on everything from bringing potential draft picks in to Free Agents. It's also not a necessarily a fixed situation, if the team starts winning a few ball games and not generating negative media attention for a stretch.

Lee would have been a good piece for instance, and we were rumored to be after him, but what chance would we have to get him instead of New York? How much of an overpay?

 

[The_Jamal]

Advanced stats crew about to be incoming soon

Nope, I've given up on some trying to convince people about Omri because the response always is "OMG RUDY CAN SCORE 18 PPG!!!!!!!!1!!! AND OMRI CANT SO RUDY IS BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!"

 

[jcassio]

So you automatically take Woj's word for it that Vivek is still very active, when there's absolutely no indication in that regard anywhere else? Sorry, I know your hatred of Vivek goes deep, but this just smacks of Woj AGAIN taking his "source" information at face value.

If Rudy leaves, he leaves. In all honesty, I haven't been that impressed with him in quite a while anyway. Some nights he's there, other nights it looks like he'd rather be home playing NBA2K17 or whatever...

This whole thing has AGENT written all over it in huge indelible letters. Color me about as impressed with this as I am with the new statue...

This is a first for me, but I agree with your post word for word. ;-)
If we keep him, make him our 6th man like most playoff teams would do. If we get rid of him, lets get someone who doesn't have an 8-foot dribble that says "Take the ball, it's yours!" Rudy has some offensive talent to be sure, but he often hurts us as much as he helps us by not protecting the ball and by not playing good defense.

 

[twslam07]

Nope, I've given up on some trying to convince people about Omri because the response always is "OMG RUDY CAN SCORE 18 PPG!!!!!!!!1!!! AND OMRI CANT SO RUDY IS BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!"

Omri was better last year, but the stats don't favor Omri in past years. Gay didn't seem very motivated nor did it seem like he was used correctly last year. I think it's fine for Kings fan to think Gay is better. I'm interested to see if Casspi can keep up his level of play and if Gay turns it around this year with a coach similar to Malone (while it also being a contract year for him).

 

[KingsFanGER]

We topped projected ESPN's Team Turmoil ranking in a landslide, and if you took a random poll on a neutral basketball site about what team is currently most dysfunctional it would likely be this team, which has impact on everything from bringing potential draft picks in to Free Agents. It's also not a necessarily a fixed situation, if the team starts winning a few ball games and not generating negative media attention for a stretch.

Lee would have been a good piece for instance, and we were rumored to be after him, but what chance would we have to get him instead of New York? How much of an overpay?

Ok so it's absolutely impossible to sign any decent FA as the Sacramento Kings.
The only thing to change that would be to win games and have no turmoil during the season. Missing the playoffs once again wouldn't help at all, because every sportswriter would mock us, how we refused to rebuild again, how we tried to change the culture with veterans and how we missed the playoffs nontheless.
Having no turmoil during the season will be tough, when you take into account, that Gay doesn't want to be here, is in his last season, Cousins is heading into possibly his final offseason with the Kings.
We win 40 games and every article about the Kings will be speculation where Cousins is going to end up. We don't win at least 40 games and this will start midseason.

How do we get decent FA's next year with Cousins in his last year, Gay gone, DC most likely gone? Are we not forced to overpay for FA's next offseason?

The time to overpay decent guys was now. Not in a year. At least when you are serious to make one last attempt with DMC.

 

[twslam07]

Ok so it's absolutely impossible to sign any decent FA as the Sacramento Kings.
The only thing to change that would be to win games and have no turmoil during the season. Missing the playoffs once again wouldn't help at all, because every sportswriter would mock us, how we refused to rebuild again, how we tried to change the culture with veterans and how we missed the playoffs nontheless.
Having no turmoil during the season will be tough, when you take into account, that Gay doesn't want to be here, is in his last season, Cousins is heading into possibly his final offseason with the Kings.
We win 40 games and every article about the Kings will be speculation where Cousins is going to end up. We don't win at least 40 games and this will start midseason.

How do we get decent FA's next year with Cousins in his last year, Gay gone, DC most likely gone? Are we not forced to overpay for FA's next offseason?

The time to overpay decent guys was now. Not in a year. At least when you are serious to make one last attempt with DMC.

We may still be forced to overpay, but the difference might be that players are now willing to come to the Kings if we overpay. Whereas this year, players may have still declined to come here regardless of how much we offered them.

I find it odd that many fans are upset by our offseason when fans really have no idea what is going on behind the scenes. Plus, they don't seem to take into account the Kings reputation around the league.

A good analogy would be that the rest of the teams in the league are olympic sprinters and the Kings are at the starting line with a torn hamstring. Who do you think is going to win? Now over time, we can rehab that hamstring, heal it properly, (e.g., change the culture), and have a better shot next year, but right now, we're not going to be able to do much.

 

[Kingster]

I find it far fetched to believe FAs are ever going to be instrumental in getting this team over the hump. The draft is key for a small market underachiever like the Kings, and now the chances of getting a very high pick are low. This team is just spinning its wheels now.

 

[Bricklayer]

Ok so it's absolutely impossible to sign any decent FA as the Sacramento Kings.
The only thing to change that would be to win games and have no turmoil during the season. Missing the playoffs once again wouldn't help at all, because every sportswriter would mock us, how we refused to rebuild again, how we tried to change the culture with veterans and how we missed the playoffs nontheless.
Having no turmoil during the season will be tough, when you take into account, that Gay doesn't want to be here, is in his last season, Cousins is heading into possibly his final offseason with the Kings.
We win 40 games and every article about the Kings will be speculation where Cousins is going to end up. We don't win at least 40 games and this will start midseason.

How do we get decent FA's next year with Cousins in his last year, Gay gone, DC most likely gone? Are we not forced to overpay for FA's next offseason?

The time to overpay decent guys was now. Not in a year. At least when you are serious to make one last attempt with DMC.

To the contrary, what we did not do was overpay for the WRONG FAs. There may have been guys we would have overpaid for. We were interested in Courtney Lee, hopped on a plane to go see Ryan Anderson. Like Wes Matthews the year before if the right FAs would have taken our money, we would have dumped it on them. But what Vlade has not done is throw long term piles of money at backup plans. If he can't get what he wants, then he has attempted to keep flexibility. And in this case, to go after a particular breed of undervalued FA -- untalented character roleplayers -- in the hope that along with a good coach they can turn the lockerroom and get us those +5 good chemistry wins instead of the -5 bad chemistry losses we have been notching every year. Then with stability and a reasonable impression of a decent season under our belts, Vlade has created a situation where he gets to go shopping again next year, but from a stronger position.

 

[ApolloDaGod]

I didn't want Rudy to begin with. Even though his numbers improved, his presence alone takes away from a "team game". He may have flashes of brilliance, but to me the fact is, Rudy is bad for team chemistry. He will be better off somewhere else, like on a team with an identity already.

On the other side, if we don't trade him and something magical happens and we start winning, then I'm ok with that, but it wont happen with Rudy on the team.

 

[KingsFanGER]

We may still be forced to overpay, but the difference might be that players are now willing to come to the Kings if we overpay. Whereas this year, players may have still declined to come here regardless of how much we offered them.

I find it odd that many fans are upset by our offseason when fans really have no idea what is going on behind the scenes. Plus, they don't seem to take into account the Kings reputation around the league.

A good analogy would be that the rest of the teams in the league are olympic sprinters and the Kings are at the starting line with a torn hamstring. Who do you think is going to win? Now over time, we can rehab that hamstring, heal it properly, (e.g., change the culture), and have a better shot next year, but right now, we're not going to be able to do much.

I too find it odd, that many fans are so willing to hand out all kinds of excuses without knowing what is going on behind closed doors, while they don't take into account, that solid FA's were signed by organisations, that are not known to be very competent.
SAC has the best center in the league under contract for 2 seasons, a well known competent coach, a decent but somewhat flawed SF, a promising sophomore and a below average but still rock solid PG. The chance to win here is certainly better than the chance to turn the Nets around and is on par with organisations like the Pelicans or Dallas. To me there is no reason why FA's shouldn't consider SAC, when we are willing to hand out decent contracts (not some kind of proof it 1 year deal).

And we don't heal anything over time, if we don't start winning. How many seasons of undeserved loyalty to a franchise does it take, before we realize, that we need to give DMC some help? He is not Lebron. He can't drag a bunch of average players into the playoffs all by himself.

 

[KingsFanGER]

To the contrary, what we did not do was overpay for the WRONG FAs. There may have been guys we would have overpaid for. We were interested in Courtney Lee, hopped on a plane to go see Ryan Anderson. Like Wes Matthews the year before if the right FAs would have taken our money, we would have dumped it on them. But what Vlade has not done is throw long term piles of money at backup plans. If he can't get what he wants, then he has attempted to keep flexibility. And in this case, to go after a particular breed of undervalued FA -- untalented character roleplayers -- in the hope that along with a good coach they can turn the lockerroom and get us those +5 good chemistry wins instead of the -5 bad chemistry losses we have been notching every year. Then with stability and a reasonable impression of a decent season under our belts, Vlade has created a situation where he gets to go shopping again next year, but from a stronger position.

That we were interested in Ryan Anderson is not something I would mention to support Vlade. The best thing that happened this offseason was, that we didn't sign Anderson.
A decent season? Stability? Well we will see, if this comes true. If it does I credit Joerger and DMC before Vlade.
And even if we do allright - next offseason DMC looks into his final year as a King and our roster loses all substance with Rudy and DC as unrestricted FA's. Would a decent FA commit to a franchise where everything is uncertain? I don't think so.
Like I said - the time to make our final move with DMC was this offseason. Next year our hands will be forced, if we don't convince Boogie to sign an extension.
Now if Vlade can pull that off and gives us a few more years with DMC, I will call him "Kings-GM of the decade". But so far I have my doubts.

 

[SacKings384]

The Pelicans are a FA destination. The Nets are a FA destination. Why not the Kings? Really curious, because everytime I dare to criticize our moves this "SAC is not a FA destination" comes up, as if I somehow demanded we should have signed Lebron James or Kevin Durant.
And if it's true, that SAC is not a possible destination for mid tier FA's like Lee or Lin, than where is the point to hand out 1 year deals to have as much capspace as possible next season?

Neither of those teams are true free-agent destinations, and have to overpay to get players there. Plus, Brooklyn and New Orleans are known as more active cities than Sacramento is. I think right now the Kings are known as the most dysfunctional front-office in the league. It will take a few decent seasons to change that.

 

[twslam07]

I too find it odd, that many fans are so willing to hand out all kinds of excuses without knowing what is going on behind closed doors, while they don't take into account, that solid FA's were signed by organisations, that are not known to be very competent.
SAC has the best center in the league under contract for 2 seasons, a well known competent coach, a decent but somewhat flawed SF, a promising sophomore and a below average but still rock solid PG. The chance to win here is certainly better than the chance to turn the Nets around and is on par with organisations like the Pelicans or Dallas. To me there is no reason why FA's shouldn't consider SAC, when we are willing to hand out decent contracts (not some kind of proof it 1 year deal).

And we don't heal anything over time, if we don't start winning. How many seasons of undeserved loyalty to a franchise does it take, before we realize, that we need to give DMC some help? He is not Lebron. He can't drag a bunch of average players into the playoffs all by himself.

This statement sums it up and is why you are having a very difficult time understanding reality.

 

[KingsFanGER]

This statement sums it up and is why you are having a very difficult time understanding reality.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Mod note: This is a Kings fans message board. Please redirect arguments on the nature of reality here:
http://forums.philosophyforums.com/metaphysics-and-epistemology/

 

[VF21]

This is a first for me, but I agree with your post word for word. ;-)
If we keep him, make him our 6th man like most playoff teams would do. If we get rid of him, lets get someone who doesn't have an 8-foot dribble that says "Take the ball, it's yours!" Rudy has some offensive talent to be sure, but he often hurts us as much as he helps us by not protecting the ball and by not playing good defense.

It had to happen sooner or later.

 

[Kingster]

Mod note: This is a Kings fans message board. Please redirect arguments on the nature of reality here:
http://forums.philosophyforums.com/metaphysics-and-epistemology/

So you're telling us that the Kings have no relationship to reality?

 

[Capt. Factorial]

So you're telling us that the Kings have no relationship to reality?

Have you ever watched a certain YouTube video over and over, waiting for the time that Robert Horry's shot finally clanks off the backboard and you get yanked out of the nightmare back into the real world? Yeah, me too.

 

[Geoff]

That we were interested in Ryan Anderson is not something I would mention to support Vlade. The best thing that happened this offseason was, that we didn't sign Anderson.
A decent season? Stability? Well we will see, if this comes true. If it does I credit Joerger and DMC before Vlade.
And even if we do allright - next offseason DMC looks into his final year as a King and our roster loses all substance with Rudy and DC as unrestricted FA's. Would a decent FA commit to a franchise where everything is uncertain? I don't think so.
Like I said - the time to make our final move with DMC was this offseason. Next year our hands will be forced, if we don't convince Boogie to sign an extension.
Now if Vlade can pull that off and gives us a few more years with DMC, I will call him "Kings-GM of the decade". But so far I have my doubts.

You realize of course that bringing in a FA requires the FA to accept the deal that was offered, right? I don't know why you aren't acknowledging that most FAs don't want to come to Sacramento right now based on the last 10 years, not if they have what they perceive to be a better option. Vlade can offer all the money he thinks is right, but it's no good if they don't want to come.

 

[KingsFanGER]

You realize of course that bringing in a FA requires the FA to accept the deal that was offered, right? I don't know why you aren't acknowledging that most FAs don't want to come to Sacramento right now based on the last 10 years, not if they have what they perceive to be a better option. Vlade can offer all the money he thinks is right, but it's no good if they don't want to come.

Because from my point of view the argument, that SAC can't sign any mid tier level FA, is just the easy way out and a way to keep optimism and trust in our GM and FO alive. That's why it's so popular on this board and to be honest I do understand and respect this point of view.
But not one of those, who accuse me of having lost the sense for reality/assuming the real world works like NBA2K or something similar, came up with a sufficient answer to a very simple question:

If we are unable to sign decent FA's now, while our semi decent core of DMC/Gay/DC is still intact, why should we be able to sign decent FA's next offseason?

Our future perspective will look worse next year. The city, which some of you think plays that much of a role in FA decisions, will be still the same. So basically it all comes down to the hope of a solid season, that will lure agents and players into committing to a franchise with the cornerstones all gone or in the last year of their contracts. Even worse it will mean convincing DMC so sign an extension with a franchise unable to put a winning team around him for his whole career, with the cornerstones all gone. In the best case scenario that means one solid season vs a decade of misery and a team stripped of his second and (maybe) third best players with his star in his last year. Maybe you can call me a pessimist, but to me this doesn't sound like an environment able to attract FA's.

So my main point was, that this offseason was the time to improve the team via FA. Delaying the building of the foundation of a future core any further doesn't make sense. Handing out 1 year deals to solid veterans doesn't make sense.
I highly doubt, the argument, that it was impossible to sign mid tier FA's this offseason, but ultimately we all don't know, what's going on behind closed doors. So we must admit we can't prove each other wrong. We can speculate but that's about it.

One thing I do know though, is that business is driven by results. And as a GM of an NBA franchise it's part of the job to convince FA so sign with your franchise. Nobody ultimately cares, if the GM has the right ideas, when he is not able to bring the matters to fruition.

Of course in Vlade's case we as fans can't step in and demand him to fix everything the Kings messed up over the years in a short amount of time. So the time to judge Vlade has not yet come.
But when I follow your logic of us being unable to sign decent FA's and when I add the future outlook I describes above to the mix, I can only ask a couple of questions:

Is there any other solution for the Kings other than to rebuild through the draft? Don't we run out of time in regards to DMC? What good does it bring to be a semi decent team (most likely just barely out of the Playoffs once again), when you think about the future? When we can't built a team via FA or trades, why keep DMC?

Because trading DMC is just consequent, when you take the stance, that we can't convince decent FA to sign here.
Now I'm not a fan of seeing DMC in a different jersey. So even with all the speculation about what's going on behind closed doors - that's the one thing that I'm sure about.

 

[King Baller]

Because from my point of view the argument, that SAC can't sign any mid tier level FA, is just the easy way out and a way to keep optimism and trust in our GM and FO alive.

What Free Agents have signed in Sacramento that you would consider mid tier or above? And not just during the short time Vlade has had the helm. I'm am talking about the complete Sacramento era.

 

[twslam07]

But not one of those, who accuse me of having lost the sense for reality/assuming the real world works like NBA2K or something similar, came up with a sufficient answer to a very simple question:

If we are unable to sign decent FA's now, while our semi decent core of DMC/Gay/DC is still intact, why should we be able to sign decent FA's next offseason?

Coming off a 40+ win season with little to no drama vs. coming off a 33 win season with mass amounts of drama & dysfunction isn't a good enough reason? Get out of here....

If we show we can turn it around and get our heads out of our a**es, we will look more attractive to FAs. It's really that simple. Sure Gay & Collison will be expiring, but if we show that we can in fact win with Cousins as "the guy," if we show that we can get through a season with little to no drama, & if we can show the culture here in Sacramento has changed and that it is not a miserable team to play for, we are going to appear much more attractive to FAs.

It still might take a pretty penny to get someone to come to Sacramento, but the difference is now players have seen you can actually be successful with a team led by Cousins (right now, many players see a talented big who isn't leading his team anywhere) or that they won't be in a toxic, drama filled environment that will make them miserable all season. Would you rather be miserable all season and make $12 mil or happy all season and make $11 mil? Personally, I think one's happiness is more important than money so it's a pretty easy choice from my perspective, but to each their own..

 

[Sac.Kings]

I think one thing everyone forgets to mention is that we will be a far more appealing free agent destination next year if Cousins agrees to a new long term deal with us. Established superstar with a well established coach and a team with an identity... sounds pretty good to me.

Also, the play of Cousins is critical to our success. If he plays well and stays out of his own way, it will paint an even brighter picture for us next offseason.

 

[Blob]

Coming off a 40+ win season with little to no drama vs. coming off a 33 win season with mass amounts of drama & dysfunction isn't a good enough reason? Get out of here....

If we show we can turn it around and get our heads out of our a**es, we will look more attractive to FAs. It's really that simple. Sure Gay & Collison will be expiring, but if we show that we can in fact win with Cousins as "the guy," if we show that we can get through a season with little to no drama, & if we can show the culture here in Sacramento has changed and that it is not a miserable team to play for, we are going to appear much more attractive to FAs.

It still might take a pretty penny to get someone to come to Sacramento, but the difference is now players have seen you can actually be successful with a team led by Cousins (right now, many players see a talented big who isn't leading his team anywhere) or that they won't be in a toxic, drama filled environment that will make them miserable all season. Would you rather be miserable all season and make $12 mil or happy all season and make $11 mil? Personally, I think one's happiness is more important than money so it's a pretty easy choice from my perspective, but to each their own..

Meh.

Did you see Ailene's column? She substantiated what I've been saying for a while - that there's a rift between Boogie and Rudy - and this is the primary source of dissatisfaction. Chaos. Turmoil. Ticking time bomb in baggy pants. This is the untenable situation. This is the elephant in the room he wants no part of.

Her quote was that Boogie and Rudy "are distant". Who here among my fellow Kings fans want to challenge that assertion?

I am open to alternate reasons why Rudy wants out if one has merit.

Otherwise Rudy has a highly regarded new coach and a shiny new home to hoop in, so what's the problem that results in apparent irreconcilable differences and request to play elsewhere?

The team underachieved in part last year due to him, his Achilles issues, and an offense that went away from him. Those issues have been resolved. He's healthy and he has a coach likely to spread the wealth. Rudy is going to get his number called. The opportunity to rebound individually at least is there for the taking.

And it is not like we signed or traded for his replacement this summer. The starting SF gig and 35 MPG are his.

Some fans have conjectured Vivek is the issue, his impatience or intrusive nature into basketball operations. Sorry don't see it. He's turned over decisions to Vlade and there's just not enough interaction on day-to-day basis between owner-player that would make the situation untenable.

Rudy wants Giannis Antetokounmpo money, he wants that triple digit payday, which of course will only occur in his dreams.

But let's suppose hypothetically he says he will not be returning to maximize the value of his contract. How does saying so assist in the objective? It doesn't. It eliminates the bidding war to the extent one would exist between the Kings and other teams.

So this is not about money. Its about personalities. The one constant personality, the biggest personality in the room, is Boogie.

Rudy has seen this act and he's seen enough. This is the only conclusion I can come to, and like I said I am receptive to alternate valid hypothesis, of which I have heard none of convincing or compelling substance.

Its almost like this dysfunctional relationship between the Kings two most talented players is swept under the rug by Kings fans. It gets NO PLAY on these boards, and I wonder why?

It's like, let's not talk about the most obvious thing that matters to success or lack thereof on the team .....

Take the emotion out of the equation and look at OKC....the reason Durant left the Thunder was partially due to the rift between Westbrook and KD, two tremendous competitors but the ego of the former player and his style of ball dominance and one-on-one style to the neglect of getting the best shot every possession rubbed KD the wrong way after 7-9 years or however long he was witness to it, and this was a significant contributing factor to KD going west....

The Warriors are not about individual accolades. They are about getting the best shot on every possession no matter who takes it. You can't say this about the Kings of years past particularly Boogie. Too often our franchise center is about showing up his man, taking his one-on-one matchup personally, schooling and abusing his opponent, never mind the context in which it occurs.

Rudy notices.

And Rudy cares about who he plays with too.

This is where a lack of leadership from the "Franchise Guy" rears its head. Boogie let Isaiah walk without a fuss because he wanted a PG that would give him the ball more often. He wanted Rondo so he could get his. He got his last year with a career high 20.5 FGAs per game, 2.5 more shots at the rim than his previous high. Yep, he shot a lot.

And yet his efficiency did not justify this ball-hogging nature. And this is a source of conflict, just like it was for KD in OKC, with Russell jacking with 5 seconds, 10 seconds, 20 seconds on the shot clock instead of making the obvious pass.

Russell and KD are on another level than Rudy and Boogie, but the comparison holds.

The inability of the latter to come together, to say "hey, I am a Top 10 at my position or Top 5 at my position" let's figure out a way to make this work requires maturity and communication in the pursuit of common objective which is to win, or at least make a playoff run for the first time in Boogie's career.

Boogie talks about wanting to win. How he hates to lose. But his most talented teammate is requesting a ticket out of town. And you gotta ask, at least I do, why is this okay, why are theses guys not able to get on the same page? They played on Team USA two summers ago. They've spent a lot of time together. If not best friends, can't they at least establish some sort of productive working relationship?

Seriously, what is the problem?!?!

This is a rhetorical question, really. The answer lies in the fact that one is an adult and one is prone to behaving like a man-child cursing out feeble old coaches and getting kick out of games after committing legitimate fouls (see Warriors game vs. Curry).

After seeing the same thing over and over over the course of two seasons, and over 100 losses, I contend Rudy has said privately and publicly through his agent, enough is enough.

Closing note: I recognize the shortcoming in Rudy's game and personality, primarily poor lateral mobility and three point prowess and too-cool-for-school attitude, but he's a special scorer. If Boogie cannot find a way to get along with the most easygoing of easygoing dudes with a silky smooth scoring ability, I don't know what else to say but then maybe we need to ship both of these guys out of town.

Perhaps sooner than later.

Happy Days!

 

[twslam07]

Not sure how this directly relates to my post... It seems like you just chose a random comment to reply to in order to push Voison's narrative.

Meh.

Did you see Ailene's column? She substantiated what I've been saying for a while - that there's a rift between Boogie and Rudy - and this is the primary source of dissatisfaction. Chaos. Turmoil. Ticking time bomb in baggy pants. This is the untenable situation. This is the elephant in the room he wants no part of.

You don't know any of this.

Her quote was that Boogie and Rudy "are distant". Who here among my fellow Kings fans want to challenge that assertion?

Sure, I'll challenge it. I don't trust Voison. It's as simple as that. I have writers/reporters that I trust. I'm sure you have your own as well.

I am open to alternate reasons why Rudy wants out if one has merit.

How about just wanting to be on a contender? This will be Gay's 11th year in the league. I'm sure he'd like to join a competitive team. The Kings project to be a fringe playoff team the next couple years in a best case scenario. I'm sure he wants more. It's not always Cousins.

Otherwise Rudy has a highly regarded new coach and a shiny new home to hoop in, so what's the problem that results in apparent irreconcilable differences and request to play elsewhere?

See above. Maybe he wants to chase a ring? Maybe he doesn't like living in Sacramento? Maybe he didn't like his name being included in trade rumors? Maybe he doesn't see Sacramento being able to surround him & Cousins with enough talent? Maybe he's still holding a grudge when we did him dirty by firing Malone right after we resigned him?

The team underachieved in part last year due to him, his Achilles issues, and an offense that went away from him. Those issues have been resolved. He's healthy and he has a coach likely to spread the wealth. Rudy is going to get his number called. The opportunity to rebound individually at least is there for the taking.

You don't know if they have been resolved, but I would agree that it is looking like they will be resolved

And it is not like we signed or traded for his replacement this summer. The starting SF gig and 35 MPG are his.

True. Gay should still get plenty of minutes, but both Casspi & Barnes in the mix make for a crowded rotation.

Some fans have conjectured Vivek is the issue, his impatience or intrusive nature into basketball operations. Sorry don't see it. He's turned over decisions to Vlade and there's just not enough interaction on day-to-day basis between owner-player that would make the situation untenable.

Fans were more upset with Vivek pre-Vlade. I feel like sometimes you conjure up weak arguments that aren't there so you can disprove them to make yourself look better

Rudy wants Giannis Antetokounmpo money, he wants that triple digit payday, which of course will only occur in his dreams.

What Rudy wants and what Rudy expects are two different things...

But let's suppose hypothetically he says he will not be returning to maximize the value of his contract. How does saying so assist in the objective? It doesn't. It eliminates the bidding war to the extent one would exist between the Kings and other teams. So this is not about money. Its about personalities. The one constant personality, the biggest personality in the room, is Boogie.

This is a HUGE assumption on your part. Why can it not be about wanting to go to a contender, where he wants to live, bad blood between him & Vlade for possibly throwing his name around in trades? Why does it have to be Cousins? I'm not saying there's not a possibility, but the fact that you are blind to many of the other reasons it could be is beyond me. Let's try to be a little more objective. Shall we?

Rudy has seen this act and he's seen enough. This is the only conclusion I can come to, and like I said I am receptive to alternate valid hypothesis, of which I have heard none of convincing or compelling substance.

Well it might be the only conclusion YOU can come to, but that doesn't make it the only conclusion that one can come to...

Its almost like this dysfunctional relationship between the Kings two most talented players is swept under the rug by Kings fans. It gets NO PLAY on these boards, and I wonder why?

It's "swept under the rug" probably because it's not proven that this is the actual reason or at least a reason with a high likelihood.

It's like, let's not talk about the most obvious thing that matters to success or lack thereof on the team .....

What you THINK is the most obvious thing that matters to a lack of success doesn't mean that is actually the reason. Your're making an assumption and trying to pass it off by saying it is obvious? Your assumption may be obvious to you when you block out the remainder of the possibilities, but for those who tend to keep all possibilities open (until what we know disproves them), please forgive us if it isn't so "obvious"...

Take the emotion out of the equation and look at OKC....the reason Durant left the Thunder was partially due tothe rift between Westbrook and KD, two tremendous competitors but the ego of the former player and his style of ball dominance and one-on-one style to the neglect of getting the best shot every possession rubbed KD the wrong way after 7-9 years or however long he was witness to it, and this was a significant contributing factor to KD going west....

It may and it may not have been. You don't it was a significant factor. You're looking at a result and guessing to what the inputs are. GSW were a game away from a championship last year. I'm sure Durant sees GSW as a way to get him not just 1 ring, but a few rings.

The Warriors are not about individual accolades. They are about getting the best shot on every possession no matter who takes it. You can't say this about the Kings of years past particularly Boogie. Too often our franchise center is about showing up his man, taking his one-on-one matchup personally, schooling and abusing his opponent, never mind the context in which it occurs.

Rudy notices.

I'm not denying any of that, but you're making Gay out to be some guy who doesn't tend to suffer from the same weakness. One of Gay's biggest knocks has been that he is an iso player/ball-stopper.

But despite Cousins forcing the issue on some possessions, he still has a +2.35 RAPM, +4.83 RPM, & +7.4 on/off. He's helping the team win. Those numbers should only get better as he learns (or if he learns) to play smarter on offense.

And Rudy cares about who he plays with too.

Cool. I'm sure every player does.

This is where a lack of leadership from the "Franchise Guy" rears its head. Boogie let Isaiah walk without a fuss because he wanted a PG that would give him the ball more often. He wanted Rondo so he could get his. He got his last year with a career high 20.5 FGAs per game, 2.5 more shots at the rim than his previous high. Yep, he shot a lot.

And yet his efficiency did not justify this ball-hogging nature. And this is a source of conflict, just like it was for KD in OKC, with Russell jacking with 5 seconds, 10 seconds, 20 seconds on the shot clock instead of making the obvious pass.

Russell and KD are on another level than Rudy and Boogie, but the comparison holds.

You tend to focus a lot of energy on one side of the court... I'm not denying Cousins' offensive inefficiency, and I think his offensive impact gets hyped by some, but his offensive potential is very, very good. If he learns to play more in control and not force the issue, the offensive impact will be there. But as many have pointed out, maintaining the offensive efficiency while improving upon the defensive efficiency, it should bring this team to middle of the pack. Now if we want to go far as a team, that will depend on Cousins' offensive development and learning to play smarter on that end.

The inability of the latter to come together, to say "hey, I am a Top 10 at my position or Top 5 at my position" let's figure out a way to make this work requires maturity and communication in the pursuit of common objective which is to win, or at least make a playoff run for the first time in Boogie's career.

Who said that discussion didn't occur? Again, you're making assumptions. Cousins & Gay have been just fine when both are healthy. In fact, Gay has resurrected his offensive career playing next to Cousins. "Thanks, Cousins! I owe you one!"

Boogie talks about wanting to win. How he hates to lose. But his most talented teammate is requesting a ticket out of town. And you gotta ask, at least I do, why is this okay, why are theses guys not able to get on the same page?

Why are they not on the same page? They've been very effective together as I already mentioned.

And you're right, Cousins does talk a lot about winning. You know what he also talks about a lot? Defense. We need to improve the defense if we want to have any shot at being a decent team.

They played on Team USA two summers ago. They've spent a lot of time together. If not best friends, can't they at least establish some sort of productive working relationship?

Who's to say they haven't? Once again, assumptions...

This is a rhetorical question, really. The answer lies in the fact that one is an adult and one is prone to behaving like a man-child cursing out feeble old coaches and getting kick out of games after committing legitimate fouls (see Warriors game vs. Curry).

No way to be certain if that is the actual "answer"

After seeing the same thing over and over over the course of two seasons, and over 100 losses, I contend Rudy has said privately and publicly through his agent, enough is enough.
FINAL NOTE: I also recognize the shortcoming in Rudy's game and personality, i..e. poor lateral mobility and three point prowess and too-cool-for-school attitude, but he's a special scorer, and if Boogie cannot find a way to get along with the most easygoing of easygoing dudes,

I don't know what else to say but then maybe we need to ship both of them out of town.

Happy Days!

Again, you don't know that Cousins is the reason he wants to leave, so to continue to act like there is no other possibility, is naive in my eyes.

 

[Blob]

Not sure how this directly relates to my post... It seems like you just chose a random comment to reply to in order to push Voison's narrative.


You don't know any of this.

Sure, I'll challenge it. I don't trust Voison. It's as simple as that. I have writers/reporters that I trust. I'm sure you have your own as well.

How about just wanting to be on a contender? This will be Gay's 11th year in the league. I'm sure he'd like to join a competitive team. The Kings project to be a fringe playoff team the next couple years in a best case scenario. I'm sure he wants more. It's not always Cousins.

See above. Maybe he wants to chase a ring? Maybe he doesn't like living in Sacramento? Maybe he didn't like his name being included in trade rumors? Maybe he doesn't see Sacramento being able to surround him & Cousins with enough talent? Maybe he's still holding a grudge when we did him dirty by firing Malone right after we resigned him?


You don't know if they have been resolved, but I would agree that it is looking like they will be resolved


True. Gay should still get plenty of minutes, but both Casspi & Barnes in the mix make for a crowded rotation.


Fans were more upset with Vivek pre-Vlade. I feel like sometimes you conjure up weak arguments that aren't there so you can disprove them to make yourself look better


What Rudy wants and what Rudy expects are two different things...


This is a HUGE assumption on your part. Why can it not be about wanting to go to a contender, where he wants to live, bad blood between him & Vlade for possibly throwing his name around in trades? Why does it have to be Cousins? I'm not saying there's not a possibility, but the fact that you are blind to many of the other reasons it could be is beyond me. Let's try to be a little more objective. Shall we?


Well it might be the only conclusion YOU can come to, but that doesn't make it the only conclusion that one can come to...

It's "swept under the rug" probably because it's not proven that this is the actual reason or at least a reason with a high likelihood.


What you THINK is the most obvious thing that matters to a lack of success doesn't mean that is actually the reason. Your're making an assumption and trying to pass it off by saying it is obvious? Your assumption may be obvious to you when you block out the remainder of the possibilities, but for those who tend to keep all possibilities open (until what we know disproves them), please forgive us if it isn't so "obvious"...


It may and it may not have been. You don't it was a significant factor. You're looking at a result and guessing to what the inputs are. GSW were a game away from a championship last year. I'm sure Durant sees GSW as a way to get him not just 1 ring, but a few rings.


I'm not denying any of that, but you're making Gay out to be some guy who doesn't tend to suffer from the same weakness. One of Gay's biggest knocks has been that he is an iso player/ball-stopper.

But despite Cousins forcing the issue on some possessions, he still has a +2.35 RAPM, +4.83 RPM, & +7.4 on/off. He's helping the team win. Those numbers should only get better as he learns (or if he learns) to play smarter on offense.


Cool. I'm sure every player does.


You tend to focus a lot of energy on one side of the court... I'm not denying Cousins' offensive inefficiency, and I think his offensive impact gets hyped by some, but his offensive potential is very, very good. If he learns to play more in control and not force the issue, the offensive impact will be there. But as many have pointed out, maintaining the offensive efficiency while improving upon the defensive efficiency, it should bring this team to middle of the pack. Now if we want to go far as a team, that will depend on Cousins' offensive development and learning to play smarter on that end.


Who said that discussion didn't occur? Again, you're making assumptions. Cousins & Gay have been just fine when both are healthy. In fact, Gay has resurrected his offensive career playing next to Cousins. "Thanks, Cousins! I owe you one!"


Why are they not on the same page? They've been very effective together as I already mentioned.

And you're right, Cousins does talk a lot about winning. You know what he also talks about a lot? Defense. We need to improve the defense if we want to have any shot at being a decent team.


Who's to say they haven't? Once again, assumptions...


No way to be certain if that is the actual "answer"


Again, you don't know that Cousins is the reason he wants to leave, so to continue to act like there is no other possibility, is naive in my eyes.

I appreciate your point-by-point consideration but none of your responses are particularly compelling or persuasive.

For starters what is your basis for distrusting Voison? She said awhile back Rudy wanted out and fans on this board poo-poo'd all over this, as if she was inventing scenarios without merit. Well guess what her assertion was proven true. 100% true. Ailene also contended Boogie was "out of shape" last year and opponents looked to run him because they knew they could get early offense against a guy slow to change ends. This was also proven TRUE in an off-season in which Boogie revealed he had tendonitis in BOTH feet and also lost about 20-30 pounds this summer to improve his mobility with Team USA and pending season.

If all you can muster is that Rudy wants out because he wants to go to a winner, this is an unconvincing argument. Why? Because if Rudy is requesting a trade or trying to force a trade, then Vlade is under NO obligation to trade him to a contender. For all the control Rudy has, Vlade could trade Rudy to the 76ers. Its not like Rudy orchestrate a trade to the Cavs or Dubs. He just wants out.

I think it is more accurate to say I am making educated guesses more than assumptions, and that if Rudy and Boogie were to come together as teammates on and off the court after two seasons, it would have happened already, and we would have already seen more compelling evidence of their coming together. The absence of this evidence is equivalent to writing on the wall. Rudy does not want to play with Boogie any more. Period.

 

[Jimbob]

I look so forward to trade at this point.
Cuz vs Rudy, Rudy never won with Cuz out,. Almost everyone knows Voison gets no respect from Cuz so she disses on him whenever possible hoping someone will buy her spu.
I wish I had a better clue what other teams would consider good trade value for Rudy. I dont dislike him but it would sure be nice to move on with players willing to give their all for this team prior to the start of the season.

 

[Kingsfan23]

I appreciate your point-by-point consideration but none of your responses are particularly compelling or persuasive.

For starters what is your basis for distrusting Voison? She said awhile back Rudy wanted out and fans on this board poo-poo'd all over this, as if she was inventing scenarios without merit. Well guess what her assertion was proven true. 100% true. Ailene also contended Boogie was "out of shape" last year and opponents looked to run him because they knew they could get early offense against a guy slow to change ends. This was also proven TRUE in an off-season in which Boogie revealed he had tendonitis in BOTH feet and also lost about 20-30 pounds this summer to improve his mobility with Team USA and pending season.

If all you can muster is that Rudy wants out because he wants to go to a winner, this is an unconvincing argument. Why? Because if Rudy is requesting a trade or trying to force a trade, then Vlade is under NO obligation to trade him to a contender. For all the control Rudy has, Vlade could trade Rudy to the 76ers. Its not like Rudy orchestrate a trade to the Cavs or Dubs. He just wants out.

I think it is more accurate to say I am making educated guesses more than assumptions, and that if Rudy and Boogie were to come together as teammates on and off the court after two seasons, it would have happened already, and we would have already seen more compelling evidence of their coming together. The absence of this evidence is equivalent to writing on the wall. Rudy does not want to play with Boogie any more. Period.

As far as I'm concerned Gay wants out because he feels unappreciated by the management for shopping him this summer as I said

http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2016/7/26/12283364/sacramento-kings-rudy-gay-frustration

There is no history of Gay voicing frustration about being in Sacramento prior to this coming out. In it contains:

"If you had your ideal communication situation, what would you like to hear from the franchise?

You don't want to hear things on the internet, on Twitter. You would like to hear it from out of the horse's mouth. Just be upfront with people, that's all you have to do."


Sounds to me like someone who was offended and blindsided about the media coverage of his availability.


Screaming at feeble coaches and tirades are not proven to have one ounce of tangible inpact on this team. This is a personality issue that I see present in some anti-Cousins fans. The team is much worse in the win/loss and on/off without him on the court. I don't care about his demeanor if there is no statistical impact to back it up.

 

[Blob]

As far as I'm concerned Gay wants out because he feels unappreciated by the management for shopping him this summer as I said

http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2016/7/26/12283364/sacramento-kings-rudy-gay-frustration

There is no history of Gay voicing frustration about being in Sacramento prior to this coming out. In it contains:

"If you had your ideal communication situation, what would you like to hear from the franchise?

You don't want to hear things on the internet, on Twitter. You would like to hear it from out of the horse's mouth. Just be upfront with people, that's all you have to do."


Sounds to me like someone who was offended and blindsided about the media coverage of his availability.


Screaming at feeble coaches and tirades are not proven to have one ounce of tangible inpact on this team. This is a personality issue that I see present in some anti-Cousins fans. The team is much worse in the win/loss and on/off without him on the court. I don't care about his demeanor if there is no statistical impact to back it up.

The link is not working.

UPDATE: OK it is working now....

Will comment later.