Thanks. That's about the best I could find rattling around in my brain. I realize this is not the justice system's concern but it makes a lot of difference to the team and the pg position. Seems to me Vlade is slow about this which either is a good sign or it means he is lost as to what to do. I'm going to choose to stay with the positive view. Certainly the team has been in contact with the league office so they have some idea of what is going to happen.
PG for the Kings
- Thread starter King Baller
- Start date
Here is a quick Rubio to Kings rumor
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/08/16...io/?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/08/16...io/?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed
I think Rudy Gay for Ricky Rubio would be a very good talent swap, but I don't know if Minnesota does that because of Wiggins. Gay obviously wouldn't be in long term plans, and he'd only be there to mentor Wiggins for 1 year. However, I have a pretty big feeling that Minny is looking to move Rubio, but they aren't looking to move him...just to move him. They probably want someone back who makes them better.
A better trade for both sides could be WCS+Koufos+McLemore for Rubio+Bjelica+Shabazz.
I think that's extremely fair for both sides. WCS fits next to KAT on defense....not really on offense. I think the Kentucky connection would entice them though. Koufos is a solid backup and tradeoff for Bjelica. They do lose 3pt shooting, but they gain it back in with McLemore. Shabazz isn't a good shooter and he's a ball dominant player. Ben is the opposite, and a few months younger. If he reaches his ceiling, McLemore would fit amazingly well alongside KAT and Wiggins.
Comes back to us and how much we like Rubio. Is Rubio enough for us to give up WCS? Just a hypothetical made up trade though
A better trade for both sides could be WCS+Koufos+McLemore for Rubio+Bjelica+Shabazz.
I think that's extremely fair for both sides. WCS fits next to KAT on defense....not really on offense. I think the Kentucky connection would entice them though. Koufos is a solid backup and tradeoff for Bjelica. They do lose 3pt shooting, but they gain it back in with McLemore. Shabazz isn't a good shooter and he's a ball dominant player. Ben is the opposite, and a few months younger. If he reaches his ceiling, McLemore would fit amazingly well alongside KAT and Wiggins.
Comes back to us and how much we like Rubio. Is Rubio enough for us to give up WCS? Just a hypothetical made up trade though
Why would Minny want Koufos given that they signed Cole Aldrich for 3 years at $7 million per season.
Now to mention why the hell would we want to trade WCS?
If as Joerger has alluded to we start running some of the Princeton sets to utilize DMC's passing more, then Rubio is just not a good fit for that style. This rumor makes no sense what so ever and I suspect it's just an opinion of one of the writers and everyone else has run away with it.
Collison is a much better fit in that system as is Brandon Knight. Ball dominant PG in an offense that runs a few of the Princeton offense sets is just not a good fit.
Now to mention why the hell would we want to trade WCS?
If as Joerger has alluded to we start running some of the Princeton sets to utilize DMC's passing more, then Rubio is just not a good fit for that style. This rumor makes no sense what so ever and I suspect it's just an opinion of one of the writers and everyone else has run away with it.
Collison is a much better fit in that system as is Brandon Knight. Ball dominant PG in an offense that runs a few of the Princeton offense sets is just not a good fit.
Cousins, Cauley-Stein, & Labissiere has the ability to be a very good & versatile frontcourt that complements each other very well.
Cousins/Cauley-Stein obviously has that elite offensive player and elite defensive player that makes a great pairing. Cousins/Labissiere still has that elite offensive talent, but Skal brings much more floor spacing albeit less defense (but Cousins & Labissiere should more than be able to hold it down defensively). Cauley-Stein/Labissiere would be uber athletic and would have an elite defender along with a floor spacer & big that could have a bit of an offensive game to help carry the load a bit when Cousins is out.
If Cauley-Stein & Labissiere pan out the way we want, that gives us a ton of flexibility cap wise. Considering Cauley-Stein & Labissiere will be on rookie contracts for 3-4 more years, we can use all of that cap space to focus on PG/SG/SF. If Richardson & Bogdanovic both hit, that's even more cap space we have to use to focus on PG & SF.
Cousins/Cauley-Stein obviously has that elite offensive player and elite defensive player that makes a great pairing. Cousins/Labissiere still has that elite offensive talent, but Skal brings much more floor spacing albeit less defense (but Cousins & Labissiere should more than be able to hold it down defensively). Cauley-Stein/Labissiere would be uber athletic and would have an elite defender along with a floor spacer & big that could have a bit of an offensive game to help carry the load a bit when Cousins is out.
If Cauley-Stein & Labissiere pan out the way we want, that gives us a ton of flexibility cap wise. Considering Cauley-Stein & Labissiere will be on rookie contracts for 3-4 more years, we can use all of that cap space to focus on PG/SG/SF. If Richardson & Bogdanovic both hit, that's even more cap space we have to use to focus on PG & SF.
I agree with a lot of what you said. Breaking down our roster in the best situation possible, the obvious need continues to be at PG. If every single player on our roster reaches their max potential, our roster need is STILL at pg.
Continues to baffle me on why we didn't address that need in the draft....(3 draft picks), or free agency. Oh well. What can you do? I guess you can just draft a C at 13 because it's not like we don't already have the most talented C in the NBA already as our franchise player.
Continues to baffle me on why we didn't address that need in the draft....(3 draft picks), or free agency. Oh well. What can you do? I guess you can just draft a C at 13 because it's not like we don't already have the most talented C in the NBA already as our franchise player.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the Princeton require WCS to be able to pass just a tad? If you were to base things off of his regular season last year, he has no passing ability whatsoever. I doubt George Karl stopped him from be coming a good passer. SL didn't convince me of much offense, but I suppose he could still develop a passing ability AND A 3pt shot out of nowhere and end up like Serge Ibaka right? (whom was a pretty good shooter with a nice stroke before coming into the NBA, while WCS was almost incapable of making his FTs in his first few years of college). I don't want to make fallacious claims about Willie's bball IQ, but I think the consensus around the Princeton offense is that you need pretty high bball IQ on offense. That would be a lot of pressure on Willie who's pretty intelligent though. But asking a non-skilled offensive player to develop high bball IQ on offense is unfair..just as unfair as the people expecting him to magically have a jumper down by SL when he showed 0 capability in both his collegiate and professional career.
That could be a reason why we'd want to trade WCS? He wouldn't fit the Princeton offense?
Not the best reasoning, but there are better ones out there that wouldn't be proper for this PG thread.
I think if Joerger is serious about running a Princeton offense, I could see DC fitting that. Lots of question marks around his domestic abuse charge. Ignoring short term, DC is only contract for 1 more year and he'll be 29. He's barely a borderline starter who would be bottom 5 in the league. I don't know if you could build on him past this year, but I suppose you could.
Temple at backup point this year doesn't make me happy at all though.
That could be a reason why we'd want to trade WCS? He wouldn't fit the Princeton offense?
Not the best reasoning, but there are better ones out there that wouldn't be proper for this PG thread.
I think if Joerger is serious about running a Princeton offense, I could see DC fitting that. Lots of question marks around his domestic abuse charge. Ignoring short term, DC is only contract for 1 more year and he'll be 29. He's barely a borderline starter who would be bottom 5 in the league. I don't know if you could build on him past this year, but I suppose you could.
Temple at backup point this year doesn't make me happy at all though.
K
Kings/Wizards/Pelicans
Kings get: Holiday/Otto Porter
Wizards get: Rudy/Koufus (replaces Gortat)
Pelicans get: Gortat
Pelicans need a non garbage/trash starting C and in Gortat they get that he can also space the floor a bit for AD with his nice mid range touch.
Wizards need more scoring and replacing Rudy/Kosta wth Gortat makes sense a line up of Beal/Gay/Morris/Wall is pretty decent floor spacing for Wall.
Kings: need a PG (injury risk no doubt) and a do it all SF to replace Rudy so Otto. Both are in contract years meaning they will go super hard most likely to secure a massive pay day.
Kings get: Holiday/Otto Porter
Wizards get: Rudy/Koufus (replaces Gortat)
Pelicans get: Gortat
Pelicans need a non garbage/trash starting C and in Gortat they get that he can also space the floor a bit for AD with his nice mid range touch.
Wizards need more scoring and replacing Rudy/Kosta wth Gortat makes sense a line up of Beal/Gay/Morris/Wall is pretty decent floor spacing for Wall.
Kings: need a PG (injury risk no doubt) and a do it all SF to replace Rudy so Otto. Both are in contract years meaning they will go super hard most likely to secure a massive pay day.
I agree, I think this could work really well and indeed our best chance at getting relevant (45+ wins) is if they work out and Boogie resigns with us after his contract is up, so in 2018/2019. Boogie will still be in his prime and Willie and Skal will be at the end of their rookie deals. I would also love to bring back Casspi for this core as a stretch 4/do it all 3 that is our heart and soul. Bogdanovic also makes a lot of sense with his shooting/handling.
But how are we going to bridge the time until then? We need to at least sniff the playoffs to give Demarcus a good reason to stay.
Regarding your point about spending on PGs and SFs:
Looking at the free agent market in 2017 it's really dominated by PGs. You have Steph, maybe Chris Paul, Lowry, Rondo, Rose, Teague, Hill, Holiday, Tyreke, our own Collison, Patty Mills, Rodriguez, Livingston, Vasquez, Jennings, Mack and RFAs in Schroeder, MCW and Burke.
The market for SFs however is not that good. You have Rudy, Gallinari if he opts out, Iggy, CJ Miles, Jeff Green and RFAs in Roberson, Porter, Snell.
Keeping that in mind I wonder if it would be best to keep Rudy for this year and see if he can get back to be successfull and happy with us. I dont see us getting a better SF in FA.
Also I would try to aquire a solid backup PG that is under contract for at least two years for a Koufos+Mclemore package. My two top names that I think could be available are Beverley and Tyler Ennis. They would be an upgrade for our PG position this year. They are also cheap and under contract for at least 2 years which allows us to pursue a top PG in 2017 while still knowing we have a solid backup locked up already.
Say we somehow manage to trade Mclemore+Koufos for Beverley+Brewer.This would give us a solid versatile 9 man rotation of:
Beverley / Collison
Afflalo / Temple
Gay / Barnes
Wcs / Casspi
Cousins / (Wcs)
If Cousins can stay healthy and Rudy buys in we could be flirting with .500.
Next year in FA we could create a lot of capspace (even with Gays, Collisons and Casspis cap hold) and focus on getting an upgrade at PG. We could make a huge offer to Teague, Hill or Holiday and hope other teams focus on the more prominent names.
That's the best case scenario I can think of.
But how are we going to bridge the time until then? We need to at least sniff the playoffs to give Demarcus a good reason to stay.
Regarding your point about spending on PGs and SFs:
Looking at the free agent market in 2017 it's really dominated by PGs. You have Steph, maybe Chris Paul, Lowry, Rondo, Rose, Teague, Hill, Holiday, Tyreke, our own Collison, Patty Mills, Rodriguez, Livingston, Vasquez, Jennings, Mack and RFAs in Schroeder, MCW and Burke.
The market for SFs however is not that good. You have Rudy, Gallinari if he opts out, Iggy, CJ Miles, Jeff Green and RFAs in Roberson, Porter, Snell.
Keeping that in mind I wonder if it would be best to keep Rudy for this year and see if he can get back to be successfull and happy with us. I dont see us getting a better SF in FA.
Also I would try to aquire a solid backup PG that is under contract for at least two years for a Koufos+Mclemore package. My two top names that I think could be available are Beverley and Tyler Ennis. They would be an upgrade for our PG position this year. They are also cheap and under contract for at least 2 years which allows us to pursue a top PG in 2017 while still knowing we have a solid backup locked up already.
Say we somehow manage to trade Mclemore+Koufos for Beverley+Brewer.This would give us a solid versatile 9 man rotation of:
Beverley / Collison
Afflalo / Temple
Gay / Barnes
Wcs / Casspi
Cousins / (Wcs)
If Cousins can stay healthy and Rudy buys in we could be flirting with .500.
Next year in FA we could create a lot of capspace (even with Gays, Collisons and Casspis cap hold) and focus on getting an upgrade at PG. We could make a huge offer to Teague, Hill or Holiday and hope other teams focus on the more prominent names.
That's the best case scenario I can think of.
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Idoubt we go full blown Princeton because not both of our big guys are great passers. Having said that, I do suspect that we will be running a lot of our sets through Cousins, whether that is at the elbow or down low and let him make the reads and decide whether to pass or attack.
In either case, you are not going to need a ball dominant PG who initiates a lot of the stuff. Judging by the comments and some actions since Joerger's appointment, I expect to see a lot of our offense initiated by Cousins. In that case what we need out of PG is to bring the ball up the court, pass it off to Cousins and spread the floor. Be able to run some solid pick and roll, be able to create a little bit for others and be able to create off the dribble when the plays break down and be a solid to great defender....at least pesky and somewhat of a scrapper. That's why I think we didn't bring Rondo back and why I think the team is very comfortable with Collison as a starter. It's also why I think they seem to be comfortable with Temple as a primary PG back up.
Now our problem is that Collison will likely be suspended and even if he misses games with injury or suspension, regardless, we could be in trouble. We absolutely need some help at PG but I don't think it will be a Rubio type. I can see us trying to get Brandon Knight if we can for Rudy. If we don't trade Rudy, I can see us being interested in the likes of Mario Chalmers, Norris Cole and even Toney Douglas. Maybe they rate I. Cousins higher than we do. I would feel a LOT more confortable if we managed to sign someone like Chalmers and he is ready come start of the season. Temple as a 3rd PG on the roster is fine. i think he can handle those back up minutes of say 10-15 minutes at PG but in case of injury or suspension where he needs to play 35-40 minutes at PG, I would feel nervous. It's probably doable but difficult.
Bottom line is that I cannot see us trading for Rubio. Would cost a lot and he doesn't exactly fit what we are looking for. If he was a good shooter then absolutely but somehow I can't see it. I can see the intrigue with Brandon Knight. Young, signed for a few years at a reasonable deal, good defender, can shoot the 3 well, can create for himself off the dribble and can create a bit for others. He is also good defender who can even play at SG for stretches.
It would be nice to get some long term stability at the position but the player would need to fit what the team appears to be looking for. Collisons fits it but is already 29. Knight is just as good and younger with his prime years still ahead of him. I suspect we will see a LOT more trade action in the NBA in general after the Olympics.
In either case, you are not going to need a ball dominant PG who initiates a lot of the stuff. Judging by the comments and some actions since Joerger's appointment, I expect to see a lot of our offense initiated by Cousins. In that case what we need out of PG is to bring the ball up the court, pass it off to Cousins and spread the floor. Be able to run some solid pick and roll, be able to create a little bit for others and be able to create off the dribble when the plays break down and be a solid to great defender....at least pesky and somewhat of a scrapper. That's why I think we didn't bring Rondo back and why I think the team is very comfortable with Collison as a starter. It's also why I think they seem to be comfortable with Temple as a primary PG back up.
Now our problem is that Collison will likely be suspended and even if he misses games with injury or suspension, regardless, we could be in trouble. We absolutely need some help at PG but I don't think it will be a Rubio type. I can see us trying to get Brandon Knight if we can for Rudy. If we don't trade Rudy, I can see us being interested in the likes of Mario Chalmers, Norris Cole and even Toney Douglas. Maybe they rate I. Cousins higher than we do. I would feel a LOT more confortable if we managed to sign someone like Chalmers and he is ready come start of the season. Temple as a 3rd PG on the roster is fine. i think he can handle those back up minutes of say 10-15 minutes at PG but in case of injury or suspension where he needs to play 35-40 minutes at PG, I would feel nervous. It's probably doable but difficult.
Bottom line is that I cannot see us trading for Rubio. Would cost a lot and he doesn't exactly fit what we are looking for. If he was a good shooter then absolutely but somehow I can't see it. I can see the intrigue with Brandon Knight. Young, signed for a few years at a reasonable deal, good defender, can shoot the 3 well, can create for himself off the dribble and can create a bit for others. He is also good defender who can even play at SG for stretches.
It would be nice to get some long term stability at the position but the player would need to fit what the team appears to be looking for. Collisons fits it but is already 29. Knight is just as good and younger with his prime years still ahead of him. I suspect we will see a LOT more trade action in the NBA in general after the Olympics.
I certainly agree that it would take more than Willie and Gay to get Butler, not to mention, I seriously doubt that Butler is on the market. I wouldn't trade Willie for Rubio either. When I have peices I want to move. why would I trade a piece I don't want to move? Plus, Minny has a couple of guys that already play the PF position in Deng, Bjelica, and Payne. I think they could make use of Gay at both the PF and SF positions, but I agree, I don't see a big need there for them. If anything, their weak at the SG position, so maybe Mclemore is a attractive to them. If you want a throw in to sweeten the pot, then you would have to consider giving them Bogdan, which I would hate to do.
Personally, I don't see a deal between us. At least not now. I do like some aspects of Rubio's game. I just wish he could shoot the ball.
Personally, I don't see a deal between us. At least not now. I do like some aspects of Rubio's game. I just wish he could shoot the ball.
Wish I could answer that question, but I can't. We could have had a deal with Atlanta for the eight pick, who essentially traded Jeff Teague for the 11th pick if memory serves. Of course we couldn't trade the pick, but we could have made the pick for them and then made the trade later. I thought at the time that we must have some sort of deal in the works to pass up Teague, and then pass on Baldwin. And maybe we still do and it hasn't happened yet. I think the only way the Kings move Gay is if we get a third team involved. I'd still like to pick up Knight and I think the Sun's would like to move Knight. Gotta be a way to make a deal.
I still think that Mario Chalmers would be an ideal option for us provided he has recovered from injury.
Provided there are no set backs in his recovery (last report was that he is two weeks ahead of schedule) he should be back into it by training camp.
Ideally you would want to have him build up his fitness and come off the bench early in the season but that is not an option for us given that Collison will miss games to start the season.
Norris Cole is another one but Chalmers would be a better fit. Chalmers was a starter on championship winning teams. He can play with Collison and defend both backcourt position. Can play off the ball or create off the dribble. Has always been a strong defender and has familiarity with coach Joerger given he played some 50 odd games with Memphis last season prior to his injury.
Just makes sense from many different aspects. Again, it all depends on his recovery from that injury and his willingness to play for Sacramento at the price tag that we can afford (~ $2.9 million)
Provided there are no set backs in his recovery (last report was that he is two weeks ahead of schedule) he should be back into it by training camp.
Ideally you would want to have him build up his fitness and come off the bench early in the season but that is not an option for us given that Collison will miss games to start the season.
Norris Cole is another one but Chalmers would be a better fit. Chalmers was a starter on championship winning teams. He can play with Collison and defend both backcourt position. Can play off the ball or create off the dribble. Has always been a strong defender and has familiarity with coach Joerger given he played some 50 odd games with Memphis last season prior to his injury.
Just makes sense from many different aspects. Again, it all depends on his recovery from that injury and his willingness to play for Sacramento at the price tag that we can afford (~ $2.9 million)
