Current Team Discussion and Possible Trades

[Gilles]

I would love Crowder but seriously worried who besides Cousins could be relied to score consistently or more importantly be a consistent scoring threat for us when Cousins sits or misses his customary 10-15 games a season.
It's great to talk about getting rid off Rudy but is he goes, we have no scorer capable of consistently scoring 20 points on good percentage with defenses focused in on them.

Afflalo and Collison will have to act as 3a and 3b option with Crowder filling the gaps as 3c weapon. Hell, given his efficiency in both post and iso offense last year, maybe Afflalo can act in a weak #2 role, that he so desired, but I certainly wouldn't bet on that.
Just a note: Crowder had higher assisted rate last year than Ben Mclemore, and no one would accuse Benny of being a shot creator.

If that rumor came to fruition in some way, I would definitely exchange Gay/Koufos/Mclemore for Crowder/Amir Johnson/salary filler.

 

[KingMilz]

I would love Crowder but seriously worried who besides Cousins could be relied to score consistently or more importantly be a consistent scoring threat for us when Cousins sits or misses his customary 10-15 games a season.

It's great to talk about getting rid off Rudy but is he goes, we have no scorer capable of consistently scoring 20 points on good percentage with defenses focused in on them.

When Cousins misses his customary 10-15 games (all the Cousins supporters point out our W-L without him) Rudy Gay is definitely not stepping up anyway I rather get defenders who will compete rather than a guy who ghosts in and out of games. If the trade does go down (which I seriously doubt) I would try trade Ben/KK for a combo scoring guard or try somehow acquire a 6th man chucker type off our bench.

 

[twslam07]

Afflalo and Collison will have to act as 3a and 3b option with Crowder filling the gaps as 3c weapon. Hell, given his efficiency in both post and iso offense last year, maybe Afflalo can act in a weak #2 role, that he so desired, but I certainly wouldn't bet on that.
Just a note: Crowder had higher assisted rate last year than Ben Mclemore, and no one would accuse Benny of being a shot creator.

If that rumor came to fruition in some way, I would definitely exchange Gay/Koufos/Mclemore for Crowder/Amir Johnson/salary filler.

If the rumor is true, Johnson will likely be headed to LAC as that makes the most sense as a replacement for Griffin in the starting lineup.

It'll probably be something like this...

BOS Out: BKN Pick Swap / Crowder / Smart / Olynyk / A. Johnson
BOS In: Griffin / Koufos / Pierce / McLemore

LAC Out: Griffin / Pierce
LAC In: BKN Pick Swap / Gay / A. Johnson / Smart / Olynyk

SAC Out: Gay / Koufos / McLemore
SAC In: Crowder

 

[dude12]

I believe this is where the rumor started, a fan posted a trade asking CD and it was picked up as a rumor. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[CelticsFan]

Doesn't seem to make sense. If the Clips wanted Rudy a SF I would think Doc would want Crowder a SF more. Crowder is locked up cheap Gay is gone after the season

 

[ESP47]

If the rumor is true, Johnson will likely be headed to LAC as that makes the most sense as a replacement for Griffin in the starting lineup.

It'll probably be something like this...

BOS Out: BKN Pick Swap / Crowder / Smart / Olynyk / A. Johnson
BOS In: Griffin / Koufos / Pierce / McLemore

LAC Out: Griffin / Pierce
LAC In: BKN Pick Swap / Gay / A. Johnson / Smart / Olynyk

SAC Out: Gay / Koufos / McLemore
SAC In: Crowder

I don't think we would trade all 3 guys for just Crowder.

 

[Gilles]

I believe this is where the rumor started, a fan posted a trade asking CD and it was picked up as a rumor. Maybe I'm wrong.

No, I saw a claim, that it originated from either a source close to or even a direct quote from Wyc Grousbeck, minority owner of the Celtics, that price for Griffin has lowered due to PO in 2017. In a separate rumor Clippers inquired about Rudy, and Kings apparently like Crowder and Rozier (I'm pretty sure, Vlade is not a source for this, so it must be Ainge or however Kings talked to from Boston side).
As a potential 3-way deal it was first mentioned by his guy:

Keith Smith ‏@KeithSmithNBA
Hearing some rumors here in Las Vegas that BOS is talking Blake Griffin again. And this time it could be a 3 way with SAC getting R. Gay.

Keith Smith ‏@KeithSmithNBA
To clarify my earlier tweet: BOS would get Griffin, LAC would get Gay and SAC would get Crowder. Other pieces also involved.

Credibility? Have no idea...

 

[dude12]

If that is the case, then I'd think that Marcus Smart is a target to fill a hole.

 

[KingsFanGER]

If that is the case, then I'd think that Marcus Smart is a target to fill a hole.

Rudy, Koufos and Ben for Smart and Crowder? You take that and run. Danny Ainge and Doc would be stupid to do that kind of trade.
Add those two guys and give Joerger a little time and we would be talking about one of the toughest defensive units in the league with Cousins to carry them on offense.

 

[ESP47]

Rudy, Koufos and Ben for Smart and Crowder? You take that and run. Danny Ainge and Doc would be stupid to do that kind of trade.
Add those two guys and give Joerger a little time and we would be talking about one of the toughest defensive units in the league with Cousins to carry them on offense.

If it's a 3 way and they're getting Griffin in return then that's worth it for them. After that you'd only have to wonder what LAC would be asking for as extra.

 

[pshn80]

Current team outlook per me. Need a starting PF and a back up PG. We need Gay. If we trade him then we need a starting SF. We need Koufos unless we get a starting PF.

Right now our starting four are Cuz, Gay, Affalo, Cllison. At PF Koufos over WCS thus making the most needed addition a starting PF. Next a backup PG.

This puts us n a pretty tricky position as we work out a trade or trades. We don't need a player of Gay's quality UNLESS we trade Gay. We need someone of Koufos' quality at PF. That leaves doing the best we can to get a back up PG wih not much to offer but it might just work. Just don't do anything foolish. We have a fair team, let's shoot for mproving it. Go Kings.

 

[KingsFanGER]

If it's a 3 way and they're getting Griffin in return then that's worth it for them. After that you'd only have to wonder what LAC would be asking for as extra.

I don't think Griffin is worth it for them. Horford+Griffin with IT running the point doesn't sound like a team, that's able to dethrone the Cavs. Horford and Griffin both are bigs, that like to pop for mid range J's. Griffin is not exactly what you would call a great defender. With Crowder and Smart gone, who is gonna defend Lebron James? Jaylen Brown?
Right now the Celtics are one step away from contending. Key would be to keep most of their defensive backbone of Crowder, Smart and Bradley and somehow add another contributor, that's a two way player.
Jimmy Butler would have made all kind of sense in a Crowder trade - but Griffin?

 

[KingsFan80]

I don't understand why the Clippers would do that deal though. Why would you give up Griffin for Rudy Gay? There has to be more to it.

 

[KingsFanGER]

I don't understand why the Clippers would do that deal though. Why would you give up Griffin for Rudy Gay? There has to be more to it.

Doc wanting to go small to match the Dubs? Doc realizing, that the Clippers are heading nowhere in terms of contending for the championship and wants to rebuild the team? Doc losing all trust in Griffin as the franchise player after his offcourt troubles? Doc just being a bad GM?
I know it's wishful thinking and we should know better, but Crowder+X makes me excited.

 

[NoBonus]

I don't understand why the Clippers would do that deal though. Why would you give up Griffin for Rudy Gay? There has to be more to it.

Maybe they are looking to get "moveable pieces".

 

[funkykingston]

I get the feeling this is somebody pulling two different rumors together. The Clippers have been interested in Gay but don't have assets they are willing to part with that the Kings want. The Celtics are still looking for a star player to build around. Horford is a great get for them and consistently puts up good numbers and is a good team guy but he's not a star. Are the Clippers shopping Griffin? I don't know.

But given that even after a number of seasons together the Clippers still seem as good or better with one of CP3 or Blake compared to both guys together I can see the logic.

I'm not sure there's anything more to this rumor than a guy taking Boston's interest in Blake and the Clippers interest in Gay and tying them together but if there's anything to it I can see the value to the Kings.

I don't understand why the Clippers would do that deal though. Why would you give up Griffin for Rudy Gay? There has to be more to it.

Well of course there'd have to be. At a minimum Boston would likely be sending back their first rounder (which has the option to swap with Brooklyn) and likely other pieces.

 

[KingsFan80]

Now i guess some of the Boston guys have once again included Cousins in the talks. I am not going to copy and paste the twitter from a Boston Reporter because it is garbage. No idea why they continue to report this crap. WE ARE NOT TRADING COUSINS

 

[allrightythen]

Now i guess some of the Boston guys have once again included Cousins in the talks. I am not going to copy and paste the twitter from a Boston Reporter because it is garbage. No idea why they continue to report this crap. WE ARE NOT TRADING COUSINS

Because they really want Cousins. Boston fans and media bring him up anytime anyone mentions the Kings. I'm with you though he isn't being traded.

 

[allrightythen]

I can understand trading Rudy, but a big part of me doesn't want to. He was at his best under Mike Malone playing with Demarcus and I kinda get the impression that we're moving back to doing some of the things that worked back then. Can we get an upgrade at PG using just McLemore and Koufos?

 

[funkykingston]

I can understand trading Rudy, but a big part of me doesn't want to. He was at his best under Mike Malone playing with Demarcus and I kinda get the impression that we're moving back to doing some of the things that worked back then. Can we get an upgrade at PG using just McLemore and Koufos?

My take all along was that Rondo/Gay/Cousins didn't work as a trio. Too ball dominate. So one or both of Rajon & Rudy needed to go this offseason. With Rondo gone I can see it both ways in terms of keeping or trading Rudy.

As far as keeping him, he's the only other guy on the roster with the ability to create his own shot, he's a proven scorer who can defend when engaged, is on a team friendly deal and was part of a Kings starting five two years ago (along with Cousins & Collison as well as McLemore & Thompson) that was statistically one of the best in the league. Why not see if a similar lineup, with a similar defense-first approach but theoretically upgraded with Afflalo and Cauley-Stein can work well together?

As far as dealing him, he's not the most efficient scorer and that efficiency drops a lot more when asked to be the primary option, he's not shown that he's consistently engaged on defense, isn't a great fit stylistically as a compliment to Boogie, he's set to be a free agent after the season and he's the best trade chip the Kings have.

So to me it becomes pretty simple. If Rudy wants out then you trade him. If he doesn't then you keep him. I don't trust Voison's reporting but Carmichael Dave and Jason Jones have essentially also said that Rudy wants off the Kings. If so, trade him.

At least, that's where I'm at.

 

[twslam07]

My take all along was that Rondo/Gay/Cousins didn't work as a trio. Too ball dominate. So one or both of Rajon & Rudy needed to go this offseason. With Rondo gone I can see it both ways in terms of keeping or trading Rudy.

As far as keeping him, he's the only other guy on the roster with the ability to create his own shot, he's a proven scorer who can defend when engaged, is on a team friendly deal and was part of a Kings starting five two years ago (along with Cousins & Collison as well as McLemore & Thompson) that was statistically one of the best in the league. Why not see if a similar lineup, with a similar defense-first approach but theoretically upgraded with Afflalo and Cauley-Stein can work well together?

As far as dealing him, he's not the most efficient scorer and that efficiency drops a lot more when asked to be the primary option, he's not shown that he's consistently engaged on defense, isn't a great fit stylistically as a compliment to Boogie, he's set to be a free agent after the season and he's the best trade chip the Kings have.

So to me it becomes pretty simple. If Rudy wants out then you trade him. If he doesn't then you keep him. I don't trust Voison's reporting but Carmichael Dave and Jason Jones have essentially also said that Rudy wants off the Kings. If so, trade him.

At least, that's where I'm at.

I agree with a lot of this. If he wants out and it sounds like he's going to leave next season in FA, I think we need to move him. If he's on board with the new culture and wants to buy-in, I'm fine keeping him.

However, if he does want to stay but we can get a guy like Bledsoe, Dragic, Crowder, or O. Porter in exchange for him, I think we do it either way. Having said that, I honestly think Bledsoe, Porter, & Crowder (even with these recent rumors) are pipe dreams & Dragic would only happen if the Heat are interested in cap space next year.

I'm really hoping Gay buys in. Last year (14-15), our team's On/Off with the big 3 (Collison/Gay/Cousins) was +18.1. That's insanely good. A lot of it probably has to do with the dreadful bench, but even this year the On/Off of those 3 was +7.0 which is still respectable (especially under Karl). For comparison's sake, Rondo/Gay/Cousins had an On/Off of +3.0.

With Afflalo replacing McLemore in the starting lineup (same usage %, better 3pt shooting, better ball-handling, better passing, less turnovers) and Cauley-Stein replacing Thompson (more athleticism, better rim protector, more versatile defender) from that 'legendary' Collison/McLemore/Gay/Thompson/Cousins lineup, we would think we would have a starting lineup that could perform at a similar level. Add to the fact that the team has a better bench this year, and we could turn some heads.

 

[ParniValjak]

My take all along was that Rondo/Gay/Cousins didn't work as a trio. Too ball dominate. So one or both of Rajon & Rudy needed to go this offseason. With Rondo gone I can see it both ways in terms of keeping or trading Rudy.

As far as keeping him, he's the only other guy on the roster with the ability to create his own shot, he's a proven scorer who can defend when engaged, is on a team friendly deal and was part of a Kings starting five two years ago (along with Cousins & Collison as well as McLemore & Thompson) that was statistically one of the best in the league. Why not see if a similar lineup, with a similar defense-first approach but theoretically upgraded with Afflalo and Cauley-Stein can work well together?

As far as dealing him, he's not the most efficient scorer and that efficiency drops a lot more when asked to be the primary option, he's not shown that he's consistently engaged on defense, isn't a great fit stylistically as a compliment to Boogie, he's set to be a free agent after the season and he's the best trade chip the Kings have.

So to me it becomes pretty simple. If Rudy wants out then you trade him. If he doesn't then you keep him. I don't trust Voison's reporting but Carmichael Dave and Jason Jones have essentially also said that Rudy wants off the Kings. If so, trade him.

At least, that's where I'm at.

But you don't trade him just to trade him. It needs t be for a piece that replaces what we lose with Rudy and not necessarily at SF. Rudy is our biggest trade chip despite popular belief in the Kings fans camp. He is still one of the best SFs in the league, in his prime with a repaired image around the league compared to what it was when he was with the Raptors.

Rudy had a down season not because he is crap and no because he is losing it. It was because he was 3rd wheel last year in terms of opportunities. Rondo dominated teh ball, Cousins was rightly heavily featured in the offense and Rudy got the scraps so whenever he go got the ball, he shot it because he is a scorer.

I go back to the Malone days and Cousins and Rudy worked VERY well together because as two ball dominant guys, they picked their spots, worked off each other and even did some pick and rolls together. I see no reason why that cannot work again in an offense that will be very different to the one George Karl trotted out last year and with a less ball dominant PG in Collison. We will score less but we will defend more. Gay played pretty solid defense for Malone. There is no reason why he cannot do it for Joerger. Last year no one played defense because we never practiced it. Now we are preaching it. Now its what this team is about.

I am open to trading Gay provided we replace his talent with similar talent that is younger. That means that the player should be a scorer who is able to create his own shot. Trading him for glorified role players is pissing assets into the wind. Something we just cannot addord to do as a team unless we are going full blown rebuild

 

[Jkbiker]

We need Rudy 's offense, if we get a starting PG that will score 20 plus pts per game and play some defense, then yes
But every time I see proposed trades its for a lesser offensive player and its always because
rudy is a 1 year rental? So why trade for a lesser player now or even in Feb? Trade for a 1st rd pick to a contender and use his 13mil
next year to FA. Better yet Keep rudy at the 3 (no more playing 4) maybe he will love DJ, and new winning defensive team
and decides he would be better off to stay

 

[allrightythen]

My take all along was that Rondo/Gay/Cousins didn't work as a trio. Too ball dominate. So one or both of Rajon & Rudy needed to go this offseason. With Rondo gone I can see it both ways in terms of keeping or trading Rudy.

As far as keeping him, he's the only other guy on the roster with the ability to create his own shot, he's a proven scorer who can defend when engaged, is on a team friendly deal and was part of a Kings starting five two years ago (along with Cousins & Collison as well as McLemore & Thompson) that was statistically one of the best in the league. Why not see if a similar lineup, with a similar defense-first approach but theoretically upgraded with Afflalo and Cauley-Stein can work well together?

As far as dealing him, he's not the most efficient scorer and that efficiency drops a lot more when asked to be the primary option, he's not shown that he's consistently engaged on defense, isn't a great fit stylistically as a compliment to Boogie, he's set to be a free agent after the season and he's the best trade chip the Kings have.

So to me it becomes pretty simple. If Rudy wants out then you trade him. If he doesn't then you keep him. I don't trust Voison's reporting but Carmichael Dave and Jason Jones have essentially also said that Rudy wants off the Kings. If so, trade him.

At least, that's where I'm at.

If he really wants out you certainly need to trade him. Can't risk letting him go for nothing. I do think you can be picky and it doesn't have to be done right away. Playoff teams could be looking for help well into the season.

 

[kingsboi]

But you don't trade him just to trade him. It needs t be for a piece that replaces what we lose with Rudy and not necessarily at SF. Rudy is our biggest trade chip despite popular belief in the Kings fans camp. He is still one of the best SFs in the league, in his prime with a repaired image around the league compared to what it was when he was with the Raptors.

Rudy had a down season not because he is crap and no because he is losing it. It was because he was 3rd wheel last year in terms of opportunities. Rondo dominated teh ball, Cousins was rightly heavily featured in the offense and Rudy got the scraps so whenever he go got the ball, he shot it because he is a scorer.

I go back to the Malone days and Cousins and Rudy worked VERY well together because as two ball dominant guys, they picked their spots, worked off each other and even did some pick and rolls together. I see no reason why that cannot work again in an offense that will be very different to the one George Karl trotted out last year and with a less ball dominant PG in Collison. We will score less but we will defend more. Gay played pretty solid defense for Malone. There is no reason why he cannot do it for Joerger. Last year no one played defense because we never practiced it. Now we are preaching it. Now its what this team is about.

I am open to trading Gay provided we replace his talent with similar talent that is younger. That means that the player should be a scorer who is able to create his own shot. Trading him for glorified role players is pissing assets into the wind. Something we just cannot addord to do as a team unless we are going full blown rebuild

I mean...if you are trading him for glorified role players, you can't call that a full blown rebuild anyway. That's just churning the wheels as it slowly falls off...if you trade Gay for assets, you make sure you get a young player or draft pick in return if the plan is to rebuild.

 

[Hoovtrain]

Why do I have the feeling whatever they do, if anything, will be incredibly underwhelming .

 

[KingMilz]

Why do I have the feeling whatever they do, if anything, will be incredibly underwhelming .

Because the two previous teams got rubbish in return that worked for them and went onto bigger and better things.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Hawks won a lot of regular season games and got pretty deep into the Playoffs without the luxury of elite shot creators.
Teague is mediocre, Korver is the definition of a catch and shoot guy, Carroll and Bazemore are worse than Korver on offense (at least the Korver of 2 years ago), Horford is a pick&pop big with a running hook as his only post move.
The one guy, who is above average in creating his own shot on this roster is Millsap.
They won with ball movement, player movement, good screens, shooting and defense.
Yes in the Playoffs their inability to create offense in isolation situations got exposed. But this team went into the Playoffs every season, while the Kings barely won 30 games with guys like IT, Reke, Gay or Cousins on the roster.
I'm all for fixing the defense and get guys, that can knock down 3's.
If we come up short, because we couldn't create enough offense at least it will be something different from all the lousy Kings teams of the recent years.
And fixing the defense means getting guys like Crowder over guys like Gay. Pretty simple...

 

[ParniValjak]

Hawks won a lot of regular season games and got pretty deep into the Playoffs without the luxury of elite shot creators.
Teague is mediocre, Korver is the definition of a catch and shoot guy, Carroll and Bazemore are worse than Korver on offense (at least the Korver of 2 years ago), Horford is a pick&pop big with a running hook as his only post move.
The one guy, who is above average in creating his own shot on this roster is Millsap.
They won with ball movement, player movement, good screens, shooting and defense.
Yes in the Playoffs their inability to create offense in isolation situations got exposed. But this team went into the Playoffs every season, while the Kings barely won 30 games with guys like IT, Reke, Gay or Cousins on the roster.
I'm all for fixing the defense and get guys, that can knock down 3's.
If we come up short, because we couldn't create enough offense at least it will be something different from all the lousy Kings teams of the recent years.
And fixing the defense means getting guys like Crowder over guys like Gay. Pretty simple...

You make it sound like Gay is major reason for our lousy defense...it cannot be further from the truth. Gay was a key member of the staring 5 that was statistically the best defensive staring line up in the NBA for the entire season 2014-2015.

Gay is not the problem. Defensive scheme has been. You can't got from a good defender to a lousy one in a space of one season in your prime years. Players don't lose that ability over night. It has a lot more to do with the system than Gay himself. Change the system (which is what we are doing) and you get a different player. You can fit a square peg into a round hole.

 

[Mike]

I can understand trading Rudy, but a big part of me doesn't want to. He was at his best under Mike Malone playing with Demarcus and I kinda get the impression that we're moving back to doing some of the things that worked back then. Can we get an upgrade at PG using just McLemore and Koufos?

Unless we manage to swing a deal for a PG that scores 20 ppg (eg Bledsoe), then I think we are going to need keep hold of Rudy. He's a decent second or third option on a team. All we need to do is get him back engaged in the team offensively and defensively and he'll be a big piece of the puzzle for us.

Not sure what McLemore and Koufos can land us PG wise, for someone like Bledsoe or Knight I suspect we'd need to include something more.

In a sense it's a shame we never went after Jarrett Jack as a stopgap option. He's just signed for the vet minimum in Atlanta. Him and Collison rotating at the PG would be acceptable for now.