Free Agency

[Sac.Kings]

Steph Curry is one of the best three point shooters in NBA history. He's also one of the best scorers in the league. On a bad night he is better than Darren Collison.

Klay Thompson is one of the best three point shooters and scorers at his position in the NBA today. On a bad night he is better than any shooting guard we have on the roster, unless, Arron Afflalo finds his defensive ability from years ago and then it is a coin toss.

Kevin Durant is one of the best players at his position in the league. He can shoot three pointers, he can rebound, he can assist, he can score heavily, and can play defense. On a bad night he is better than Rudy Gay.

Draymond Green is one of the best players at his position in the league. He can knock down three pointers, he can rebound, he can block shots, and he finished 7th in the league in assists per game. On a bad night he's better than WCS.

Now the only advantage we have over the Warriors is Cousins. At every other position they are better than us on a good night and a bad night as well. As good as Cousins is at both ends, when this Warriors team got going last year they were extremely hard to stop and beat. They could overturn 20 point deficits. When they had a lead and you came back against them, they would counter and knock down shots and go on runs to get back in the lead that simply broke the back of some teams. Now they have added Kevin Durant to the mix it is only going to get tougher to beat them and we don't stand a chance...

Perhaps some might hold a belief that Joerger can coach our team to play defense to suffocate the Warriors, and if he can do that he deserves tons of praise. However, even when teams play good defense against them they have so much shooting ability to knock down shots from all over the court that it negates that, and they also have great ball movement and ability to attack the rim even if teams play good defense to try and stop that. You can't simply guard the paint and force them to shoot because they'll kill you. And you can't simply guard the perimeter because Curry, Thompson, Green and [now] Durant can all attack the paint and kill you. I don't know how teams are going to stop them consistently. They are going to be a nightmare when that line up gels. And even without a deep bench, they have a quartet of players that will play 30 odd minutes per game and do the damage, and then come back on court towards the end and see out the game. All they need now is to find some veterans willing to take peanuts to chase a ring, and as Miami found and other teams have found down the years, plenty of veterans will take peanuts to chase a ring.

All valid points. There's nothing anyone can do about Curry's shooting or Klay's shooting, they are just that good. It is what it is. However, they do have a major weakness and that's not having a front-court of any kind. It IS a problem for them. A big one. What are they going to do when Cousins gets in position every single time? It will be a cake walk for him. He will be doubled/tripled and either 1) score or 2) get fouled, or 3) kick out to shooters (and guess what, we have those too now -- not as prolific as a Ray Allen for example, but more than respectable enough to warrant attention from the defense). What I am trying to say is we have become a VERY half court heavy team. We have no choice but to play slow and if we control pace and make enough shots, I don't see why we can't be in most games. We are the new grind house and in time, that Papa kid will be huge. When Cuz sits, what are we going to do? Continue to pummel you inside with a 7-2 kid. There will be no letting up and with actual wing defenders, there will be no more of those easy shots anymore either.

That's the vision. Half court offense, tough defense, and destroy opponents from the inside out.

 

[Blob]

Matt Barnes: 38% FG 36 years old
Anthony Tolliver: 39% FG 31 years old
Affalo: 44% FGs 30 years old
Temple: 40% FGs 30 years old

Those 4 guys took a combined 2329FGs last year. 1138 of them were 3ptrs. 48.86% of their shots were threes.

These are the proverbial 3&D type guys, Some more 3, some more D. None of them should revolutionize a team, but taken together, with more changes still to come, and given a strong defensive coach, its a big step toward a culture change.

I realize that. I get the plan. But you win with two-way players. Not fringe guys who have never accomplished much on the downside of their career Can they make a difference? Maybe. Probably. Probably not. There is a reason they were available at relatively low cost, and doubtful they were top targets, just willing to come given their limited appeal and options elsewhere. I am in favor of defense, toughness and grit as much as anyone, but you need a threshold level of talent to get easy baskets. Otherwise every game turns into slog-fest and foul-fest, and given the way games are officiated, the more skilled team usually wins. And the Kings have BAD ball-handling and passing in the half-court. No matter what you would like to contend, Boogie is not an efficient low post threat. Rudy and Darren are the best half-court player, and the former appears on his way out. Guys like Omri, Ben and Willie are not efficient half-court players.

But lets see how it plays out. I hope we witness a culture change. On another note, with KD to GSW, does this open trade possibility of Rudy to OKC??? I would think so. I would like Cameron Payne and draft rights to Sabonis. Probably need some filler to make it work like Singer or Collison. And then there is Waiters.

In regards to your last point, a player really needs to shoot 35% or better on 3s to justify launching them continuously. That really hasn't been the case with Temple and Barnes. Tolliver is right there on the border and Affalo is a plus three point shooter. So more or less we are talking about defensive players on the downside of career who are or are NOT justified in launching from deep. A 3&D tag is often conventional label for guy with limited skill.

 

[Glenn]

Taking the easy way out.

Just like Mitch.

 

[steelevt]

Tom Moore: #NBA source confirms #sixers signing 30-year-old Spanish PG Sergio Rodriguez. Played 4 years in league, with last 6 for Real Madrid.
– via Twitter tmoore76er

Wait what? All I've been hearing the last couple days was he's staying in Europe and loved playing for Real Madrid.

 

[King Baller]

Warriors fans are going to be even more insuffarable now.

Well there is only one ball on the court at a time. The way to beat the Warriors will be to get physical with them. Bogut and Ezeli will be gone.

 

[Blastoff]

A 3&D tag is often conventional label for guy with limited skill.

Another label is "role player"--we've been needing some of those for a while now.

 

[Blob]

Brandon Knight busted his Achilles. I would not touch that guy with a 10 foot pole. He lost his burst of speed and is unlikely to ever recover it. Rubio is terrible too. Just terrible. Not only is a horrible shooter, he can't finish at the rim. He puts a tremendous amount of pressure on his teammates to score with his own scoring incompetency. His defense is totally overrated, in the class with Rondo who gambles for steals. I remember Isaiah just dancing on Rubio's head scoring on him at will. Pretty much every PG that Rubio goes against he backs off him a good 4-5 feet because he doesn't have the lateral quickness (after torn ACL) to cut off drives otherwise.

Eric Bledsoe is another story. I would trade for him. And Cameron Payne is another guy I would target with OKC sudden void a SF.

 

[Sac.Kings]

Pau Gasol to the Spurs. Nice pick-up for them.

 

[funkykingston]

Are you guys seriously putting up an argument about how the Kings match up with the Warriors? It was a bloodbath last season and it will be again. We should rebuild.

People may not like this, but is this the best time to trade Boogie and rebuild? We have no chance of competing in this league for the next few years, why not get ready for the future now?

Starting in 2007 the Kings have had lottery picks for 10 straight years with all but one of them being top 10 picks.

Spencer Hawes
Jason Thompson
Tyreke Evans
DeMarcus Cousins
Jimmer Fredette
Thomas Robinson
Ben McLemore
Nik Stauskas
Willie-Cauley Stein
and this year's #8 traded for #13 (Papagiannis) and #28 (Labissiere)

Point being, the idea of a rebuild is to trade pieces for draft picks, be bad enough to get a high draft pick yourself and open up caproom so that once your draft picks start showing promise you can sign good players to go along with them.

Here's the problem with that.

1 - Maybe the Vlade regime is different but we have a decade of failed top 10 picks other than Evans who is a decent player but walked for nothing and Cousins, who has become an all-star. There's no guarantee that the Kings draft a player as talented in the next few years.

2 - The Sixers have a pick swap for next year and own the Kings pick outright in 2019. So if the Kings tank next season and finish worse than the Sixers they will move back in the draft. And in 2019 they'll lose their pick. That is a major issue for a rebuild plan. Now, maybe they could get enough assets from trading Cousins etc to offset that but I don't know.

3 - caproom has never been a great asset for the Kings because they can't attract high level free agents. Other small market teams struggle with that too and the only way you get good players to come in free agency to those cities is if the team is good and offers a chance to win. So caproom generally only works in the Kings favor when they are good rather than rebuildin.

If the idea is that the Kings can't beat the Warriors so they should blow it all up and start over then pretty much every team in the NBA should do the same. Curry, Durant, Thompson and Green are 28, 27, 26 and 26 years old respectively. If this works out for them they could be a dynasty for the next 6-8 years. Unless the Kings are looking at the world's longest rebuild, they still wouldn't be able to beat the Warriors.

Then again, who says everything works out perfectly for Golden State? Maybe blowing up a championship team that set the record for regular season wins and fell just short of a second straight title to add another superstar isn't the right move.

If Cousins asks out then you trade him and start a rebuild. Until then you do your best to build around him and see if he can take you anywhere. Worrying about beating the Warriors shouldn't even really be a thought right now anyway. Making the playoffs is next year's goal. Then take it from there.

 

[kpm308]

Brandon Knight busted his Achilles. I would not touch that guy with a 10 foot pole. He lost his burst of speed and is unlikely to ever recover it. Rubio is terrible too. Just terrible. Not only is a horrible shooter, he can't finish at the rim. He puts a tremendous amount of pressure on his teammates to score with his own scoring incompetency. His defense is totally overrated, in the class with Rondo who gambles for steals. I remember Isaiah just dancing on Rubio's head scoring on him at will. Pretty much every PG that Rubio goes against he backs off him a good 4-5 feet because he doesn't have the lateral quickness (after torn ACL) to cut off drives otherwise.

Eric Bledsoe is another story. I would trade for him. And Cameron Payne is another guy I would target with OKC sudden void a SF.

Are you confusing Brandon Knight with Brandon Jennings?

 

[Mike]

All valid points. There's nothing anyone can do about Curry's shooting or Klay's shooting, they are just that good. It is what it is. However, they do have a major weakness and that's not having a front-court of any kind. It IS a problem for them. A big one. What are they going to do when Cousins gets in position every single time? It will be a cake walk for him. He will be doubled/tripled and either 1) score or 2) get fouled, or 3) kick out to shooters (and guess what, we have those too now -- not as prolific as a Ray Allen for example, but more than respectable enough to warrant attention from the defense). What I am trying to say is we have become a VERY half court heavy team. We have no choice but to play slow and if we control pace and make enough shots, I don't see why we can't be in most games. We are the new grind house and in time, that Papa kid will be huge. When Cuz sits, what are we going to do? Continue to pummel you inside with a 7-2 kid. There will be no letting up and with actual wing defenders, there will be no more of those easy shots anymore either.

That's the vision. Half court offense, tough defense, and destroy opponents from the inside out.

I would have to disagree on their front court match up. Ok, Cousins is going to be a nightmare for them to defend, but are they going to be worried about Darren Collison, Arron Afflalo, Rudy Gay, and Willie Cauley-Stein? I doubt it. Even with some of the shooters we've acquired, teams are going to defend the paint and dare us to shoot. Maybe our additions can knock down those shots and make them pay, and if they do that, teams will have to account for that. In theory that should then open the paint for Gay, WCS and Cousins to take advantage of, and when you consider their front court, we should have an advantage at that point (and against some other teams as well). So yes, there are things to be excited about (or at least optimistic about) as a Kings' fan with the the talent we are acquiring. However, the Warriors are too far ahead of us at this time and that might make any advantage we have with Cousins null in in two years time because if we aren't winning and showing enough potential to be a title contender in the near future, it wouldn't surprise me if he left to help create a super team somewhere else.

That said, we have brought in some good shooters and talent with excellent size. So it is going to be very interesting to see what Joerger does with them, and how he puts it all together. But at this stage, even if we have certain advantages over the Warriors, they will beat us more times than we beat them because their offensive power will be too great for us to keep up with on a consistent basis. Keep them to under a hundred and we have a chance, but last year that was difficult, and now with Durant it will be even tougher to do.

 

[KingsFanGER]

I would also argue our bench is now better than theirs. Yes they are better on paper and will definitely be better in reality, but there is something to be said about having 4 stars (2 of them superstars) and only 1 ball. Does Steph strictly become a jump shooter now along with Klay? Not everyone will be able to handle the ball ... something has to give. They also gave up a lot in terms of depth. They literally have no bench as of this moment past Livingston. The season is 82 games long, you never know. We can certainly compete in this league, you are taking things out of proportion. We have had a lot of issues and our biggest one from last year (coach Karl) is now gone. We would have won more games last year if he wasn't such a **** of a coach.

If your barometer of success for a team is the Golden State Warriors of the last 2 years and this year's version, then you may as well not even have a team.
Teams in the West:

Clearly far better
Warriors (obviously)
Spurs (about to lose Tim Duncan)

Better
Clippers (if everyone stays healthy, which is suddenly a very appropriate question)
Portland (they have their 2 stars)
OKC (they still have a good roster with 1 superstar)

On par with
Houston (they will be a mess this season, no defense and no big men)
Utah (they should be better than what they have been, but somehow can't get over the hump -- missing a real star)
Memphis (1 injury away from becoming a lottery team)
New Orleans (who knows with them, injuries are a problem)
T-Wolves (loads of talent, but inexperienced)

Yes, there a lot of teams in the West that can make the playoffs, but (and this is a big but), but there also many what-ifs. What if the Clippers experience injury again? Paul isn't getting any younger and Griffin has had 2 serious injuries already..... Houston is just as likely to be a lottery team as they are of being a playoff team and as constructed, they can't play a lick of defense....T-Wolves are young and inexperienced, but definitely are playoff material... Utah has a solid group, but seems to choke at the end of the season... Portland was the surprise last season -- can they do it again?.... My opinion: Memphis, Dallas, and Houston will not make the playoffs next season. Dallas is ancient and Memphis even more so, with Houston being all offense and not a shred of defense in sight. However, to say we can't compete in this league is simply not true. Even with all of the issues we had last year, we were still in the playoff race for more than half the season. Apart from Rondo leaving, most of the roster is intact and is better fitting than last year with a coach who knows exactly what to do with these types of players. We may not have as much talent as some of the teams, but talent isn't everything. Otherwise, Miami would have won all 4 championships they were in instead of going 2-2. Discipline on offense and defense is just as important. Look at the Spurs.

Edit: If a team gets the 6th seed or better, you can avoid the top 2 teams, which are certain deaths for anyone. So we aim for 6th. Not entirely out of the picture. We trade Rudy for a real PG and I would be hopeful. Our pieces fit nicely together now, there's an identity, and it's defensive and tough.

When you define "to compete" as competing for a championship, it's pretty much undeniable, that the Kings won't do that in the somewhat near future. Not my style of looking at things, but a valid opinion.
When you talk about somehow sneaking into the 8th and getting swept by one of the contenders, it may be possible, if everything goes extremely well this time.
You say I blow things out of proportion. Maybe, but you assign almost every problem we had last year to George Karl and that's something I don't buy and apparently our FO doesn't buy it too, or else they wouldn't change pretty much the whole roster once again.
Of course a lot can happen during a season, but when we talk about fully healthy teams, I don't think your assessement of the teams we are on par with is correct.

 

[ESP47]

Why are you guys comparing the Kings and the Warriors? We haven't made the playoffs in a decade and you're mad that we don't match up well with a team that just won more regular seasons games than any team in history AND added an MVP caliber player in Durant?

Talk about wild expectations. We could sign nearly every free agent out there and still probably wouldn't beat them. Lets just focus on being better than the Jazz, Pelicans, TWolves, Rockets and Blazers first.

 

[Fear the Putin]

Are you confusing Brandon Knight with Brandon Jennings?

He sure is.
Knight just had a lingering groin issue. Jennings I wouldn't touch, that he is right about.

 

[Sac.Kings]

I would have to disagree on their front court match up. Ok, Cousins is going to be a nightmare for them to defend, but are they going to be worried about Darren Collison, Arron Afflalo, Rudy Gay, and Willie Cauley-Stein? I doubt it. Even with some of the shooters we've acquired, teams are going to defend the paint and dare us to shoot. Maybe our additions can knock down those shots and make them pay, and if they do that, teams will have to account for that. In theory that should then open the paint for Gay, WCS and Cousins to take advantage of, and when you consider their front court, we should have an advantage at that point (and against some other teams as well). So yes, there are things to be excited about (or at least optimistic about) as a Kings' fan with the the talent we are acquiring. However, the Warriors are too far ahead of us at this time and that might make any advantage we have with Cousins null in in two years time because if we aren't winning and showing enough potential to be a title contender in the near future, it wouldn't surprise me if he left to help create a super team somewhere else.

That said, we have brought in some good shooters and talent with excellent size. So it is going to be very interesting to see what Joerger does with them, and how he puts it all together. But at this stage, even if we have certain advantages over the Warriors, they will beat us more times than we beat them because their offensive power will be too great for us to keep up with on a consistent basis. Keep them to under a hundred and we have a chance, but last year that was difficult, and now with Durant it will be even tougher to do.

Like I said previously, if someone's barometer on success is beating the Warriors as they are right now, you might as well not even have a team. Of course they will beat us and they should, they are better. Getting into the playoffs would be what I consider a successful season for us next season. However, there are some who want us to be instant title contenders and view being "competitive" as in competitive for a title. That's fine for certain people, but that kind of definition of competitive will leave a person disappointed probably 99.9% of the time. I would be happy with playoffs and build off of that. I don't know about Cousins leaving or staying and honestly, we can't afford to constantly talk about that. We have to prove to him and to ourselves that we can build a good team. Whether or not he stays is, to a degree, out of our control (hell, apparently even having a great team isn't enough these days either --- looking at you KD).

 

[funkykingston]

I realize that. I get the plan. But you win with two-way players. Not fringe guys who have never accomplished much on the downside of their career Can they make a difference? Maybe. Probably. Probably not. There is a reason they were available at relatively low cost, and doubtful they were top targets, just willing to come given their limited appeal and options elsewhere. I am in favor of defense, toughness and grit as much as anyone, but you need a threshold level of talent to get easy baskets. Otherwise every game turns into slog-fest and foul-fest, and given the way games are officiated, the more skilled team usually wins. And the Kings have BAD ball-handling and passing in the half-court. No matter what you would like to contend, Boogie is not an efficient low post threat. Rudy and Darren are the best half-court player, and the former appears on his way out. Guys like Omri, Ben and Willie are not efficient half-court players.

But lets see how it plays out. I hope we witness a culture change. On another note, with KD to GSW, does this open trade possibility of Rudy to OKC??? I would think so. I would like Cameron Payne and draft rights to Sabonis. Probably need some filler to make it work like Singer or Collison. And then there is Waiters.

In regards to your last point, a player really needs to shoot 35% or better on 3s to justify launching them continuously. That really hasn't been the case with Temple and Barnes. Tolliver is right there on the border and Affalo is a plus three point shooter. So more or less we are talking about defensive players on the downside of career who are or are NOT justified in launching from deep. A 3&D tag is often conventional label for guy with limited skill.

Do you think this roster is worse than last year's. Because that team had no issue putting points on the board.

They were 3rd in points per game, 7th in FG% and 10th in 3P%. And to my eyes they've added more shooting & ball handling as well as a better starting SG.

But last season the issue wasn't scoring. It was defense and spacing. They shot a good percentage but didn't take a high volume of threes in a league where that has increasingly become a necessary element for team success.

So the Kings added veteran 3&D guys who can guard more than one position and have added youth & potential. Given what they had to work with this was a successful if not earth shattering offseason thus far.

As for OKC I like Payne and Sabonis though I believe Sabonis said he'd play overseas if drafted by the Kings and Payne hasn't quite become what I'd hoped, at least so far. And with Sabonis, unless Koufos is also moved that's too many front court players with Cousins, Koufos, Papagiannis, Cauley-Stein, Tolliver, Labissiere and Sabonis.

 

[Sac.Kings]

When you define "to compete" as competing for a championship, it's pretty much undeniable, that the Kings won't do that in the somewhat near future. Not my style of looking at things, but a valid opinion.
When you talk about somehow sneaking into the 8th and getting swept by one of the contenders, it may be possible, if everything goes extremely well this time.
You say I blow things out of proportion. Maybe, but you assign almost every problem we had last year to George Karl and that's something I don't buy and apparently our FO doesn't buy it too, or else they wouldn't change pretty much the whole roster once again.
Of course a lot can happen during a season, but when we talk about fully healthy teams, I don't think your assessement of the teams we are on par with is correct.

I am not crazy enough to define "to compete" as "championship or bust." Not with the Sacramento Kings anyway. I did not talk about sneaking into the 8th spot, you did. I said aim for 6th or better. I did not say I blame George Karl for all of our problems, that is your assumption, and you know what they say about assuming things!

Last season we had many problems. The coach was one, defense was another and 90% of our roster underperformed significantly. I don't know what the reasons were, but everyone knew that Karl was a problem. A problem, but definitely not the only one. Saying fully healthy is fine, but if half your roster is injured year in and year out, then it's a problem. You can't just say "if they were healthy...". This is reality, health is a part of the business. Some get it worse than others and you feel for some teams, but it is what it is. You should provide your own list then, of what teams you consider us on par with (probably bottom of the barrel I'm sure).

 

[Section 101]

There was a reason I started that Bogut thread a few days ago.

His contract is small enough you could swap him straight across for Kosta. As in:

Congratulations on a successful trade
Due to Golden State being under the cap and choosing to invoke the Cap Room rule, Golden State could not go over the cap by more than $100,000 of post-trade Team Salary, which did happen here.

Due to Sacramento being under the cap and choosing to invoke the Cap Room rule, Sacramento could not go over the cap by more than $100,000 of post-trade Team Salary, which did happen here.

This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Trade ID
Trade ID #6703259
Every trade made by fans is allocated a unique Trade ID which you can share with friends and fellow basketball fans to allow them to see your trade scenario.


Try Another Trade or visit our Trade Forum.

Golden State Warriors Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: 0.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, and 0.0 apg.
Incoming Players

Kosta Koufos
27 year old, 7-0, 265 lb C from Ohio State
No games yet played in 2016-2017
Outgoing Players

Andrew Bogut
31 year old, 7-0, 260 lb C from Utah
No games yet played in 2016-2017
Sacramento Kings Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: 0.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, and 0.0 apg.
Incoming Players

Andrew Bogut
31 year old, 7-0, 260 lb C from Utah
No games yet played in 2016-2017
Outgoing Players

Kosta Koufos
27 year old, 7-0, 265 lb C from Ohio State
No games yet played in 2016-2017


Why Warriors: burnt bridges with Bogut, need to shave salary, locked in cost assurances in crazy market with Kosta
Why Kings: better player, tough/skilled, ending contract fits with our desire for caproom next year

Bogut to Mavs for cap space.

 

[Section 101]

They can't. They had to renounce Ezeli's cap hold to make room for Durant, making him an UFA. And even if they didn't, as a restricted free agent (I believe) they would need to use caproom to match offers for Ezeli and after this they won't have hardly any caproom. But they can match on Barnes because they have his Bird rights and can exceed the cap to sign him. Now, they'll be in super luxury tax land after next season when they have to resign Steph for the max instead of the $12 million he'll make next season but I really don't think Lacob & company care.



Ezeli is gone. Period. They renounced his cap hold and he's now unrestricted. So they will likely lose Bogut, Ezeli and Speights along with Barbosa, Rush & Clark unless those guys are willing to come back for minimum deals. They can only resign Barnes because they have his Bird Rights. I'm not saying it would be smart to match, but I think they will.

If they don't match on Barnes they'll be at or very close to the cap limit and only have exceptions and minimum contracts to fill out the roster.

If they match on Barnes they'll be slightly over the luxury tax level and still only have exceptions and minimum contracts to fill out the roster.

If they don't care about a luxury tax bill they can get back Harrison Barnes and have one more quality player as opposed to filling the bench with minimum guys who would likely be ring chasing vets.

They have to renounce Barnes to clear the cap space to sign KD.

 

[theclash4u5]

Starting in 2007 the Kings have had lottery picks for 10 straight years with all but one of them being top 10 picks.

Spencer Hawes
Jason Thompson
Tyreke Evans
DeMarcus Cousins
Jimmer Fredette
Thomas Robinson
Ben McLemore
Nik Stauskas
Willie-Cauley Stein
and this year's #8 traded for #13 (Papagiannis) and #28 (Labissiere)

Point being, the idea of a rebuild is to trade pieces for draft picks, be bad enough to get a high draft pick yourself and open up caproom so that once your draft picks start showing promise you can sign good players to go along with them.

Here's the problem with that.

1 - Maybe the Vlade regime is different but we have a decade of failed top 10 picks other than Evans who is a decent player but walked for nothing and Cousins, who has become an all-star. There's no guarantee that the Kings draft a player as talented in the next few years.

2 - The Sixers have a pick swap for next year and own the Kings pick outright in 2019. So if the Kings tank next season and finish worse than the Sixers they will move back in the draft. And in 2019 they'll lose their pick. That is a major issue for a rebuild plan. Now, maybe they could get enough assets from trading Cousins etc to offset that but I don't know.

3 - caproom has never been a great asset for the Kings because they can't attract high level free agents. Other small market teams struggle with that too and the only way you get good players to come in free agency to those cities is if the team is good and offers a chance to win. So caproom generally only works in the Kings favor when they are good rather than rebuildin.

If the idea is that the Kings can't beat the Warriors so they should blow it all up and start over then pretty much every team in the NBA should do the same. Curry, Durant, Thompson and Green are 28, 27, 26 and 26 years old respectively. If this works out for them they could be a dynasty for the next 6-8 years. Unless the Kings are looking at the world's longest rebuild, they still wouldn't be able to beat the Warriors.

Then again, who says everything works out perfectly for Golden State? Maybe blowing up a championship team that set the record for regular season wins and fell just short of a second straight title to add another superstar isn't the right move.

If Cousins asks out then you trade him and start a rebuild. Until then you do your best to build around him and see if he can take you anywhere. Worrying about beating the Warriors shouldn't even really be a thought right now anyway. Making the playoffs is next year's goal. Then take it from there.

Trading Cousins to rebuild does not mean we have to be the 76ers for 3 years. We could trade him for good, young talent that is signed for 2+ years. Throw in some draft picks, and after trading him and Gay, I could still seeing us being a 30-35 win team next year, depending on who we get. I know fans wouldn't be happy about it but it would at least be nice to have a plan. We have been terrible for 10 years because we never went full rebuild (other than getting the #1 pick and getting unlucky). Always seems to fill the gap with veterans, just so we can float between 25-35 wins.

 

[Amit149]

Bogut to Mavs for cap space.

So the Mavs starting 5 next year would be Deron-Wes-Barnes-Dirk- Bogut...
That's not bad at all.

 

[lwc]

So the Mavs starting 5 next year would be Deron-Wes-Barnes-Dirk- Bogut...
That's not bad at all.

Patience has served them well this offseason.

 

[steelevt]

Patience has served them well this offseason.

I wish more eastern teams would get these West big free agents

 

[funkykingston]

Trading Cousins to rebuild does not mean we have to be the 76ers for 3 years. We could trade him for good, young talent that is signed for 2+ years. Throw in some draft picks, and after trading him and Gay, I could still seeing us being a 30-35 win team next year, depending on who we get. I know fans wouldn't be happy about it but it would at least be nice to have a plan. We have been terrible for 10 years because we never went full rebuild (other than getting the #1 pick and getting unlucky). Always seems to fill the gap with veterans, just so we can float between 25-35 wins.

If you can show me a deal that moves Cousins for "good, young talent that is signed for 2+ years" and draft picks AND leaves a roster good enough to make up for Cousins absence and win 30-35 games then yeah, I'd take a hard look at that and likely pull the trigger.

But I don't think that deal exists. Trading for young talent and picks would mean being bad, very bad for at least a couple years, even in the best case scenario of a successful rebuild around a Durant, Curry, Towns level draft pick/savior.

 

[lwc]

I wish more eastern teams would get these West big free agents

Agreed. It is like the East FA's go to East teams and West FA's go to West teams.

 

[Entity]

I realize that. I get the plan. But you win with two-way players. Not fringe guys who have never accomplished much on the downside of their career Can they make a difference? Maybe. Probably. Probably not. There is a reason they were available at relatively low cost, and doubtful they were top targets, just willing to come given their limited appeal and options elsewhere. I am in favor of defense, toughness and grit as much as anyone, but you need a threshold level of talent to get easy baskets. Otherwise every game turns into slog-fest and foul-fest, and given the way games are officiated, the more skilled team usually wins. And the Kings have BAD ball-handling and passing in the half-court. No matter what you would like to contend, Boogie is not an efficient low post threat. Rudy and Darren are the best half-court player, and the former appears on his way out. Guys like Omri, Ben and Willie are not efficient half-court players.

But lets see how it plays out. I hope we witness a culture change. On another note, with KD to GSW, does this open trade possibility of Rudy to OKC??? I would think so. I would like Cameron Payne and draft rights to Sabonis. Probably need some filler to make it work like Singer or Collison. And then there is Waiters.

In regards to your last point, a player really needs to shoot 35% or better on 3s to justify launching them continuously. That really hasn't been the case with Temple and Barnes. Tolliver is right there on the border and Affalo is a plus three point shooter. So more or less we are talking about defensive players on the downside of career who are or are NOT justified in launching from deep. A 3&D tag is often conventional label for guy with limited skill.

Downside of career? 30? Steve Nash won MVP at 32 and was better at 33. Lebron is 31 Kobe won MVP at 30. You can say no talent whatever but stop using age as a crutch with each of your arguments. Unless they are 30 with a 10 year contract

 

[AaronPDX]

With all the movement, the fallout in clearing cap space has to shake loose a serviceable PG somewhere, you'd think? Please? lol

 

[KingsFanGER]

I am not crazy enough to define "to compete" as "championship or bust." Not with the Sacramento Kings anyway. I did not talk about sneaking into the 8th spot, you did. I said aim for 6th or better. I did not say I blame George Karl for all of our problems, that is your assumption, and you know what they say about assuming things!

Last season we had many problems. The coach was one, defense was another and 90% of our roster underperformed significantly. I don't know what the reasons were, but everyone knew that Karl was a problem. A problem, but definitely not the only one. Saying fully healthy is fine, but if half your roster is injured year in and year out, then it's a problem. You can't just say "if they were healthy...". This is reality, health is a part of the business. Some get it worse than others and you feel for some teams, but it is what it is. You should provide your own list then, of what teams you consider us on par with (probably bottom of the barrel I'm sure).

It's not about you and me being crazy enough to define "to compete" as championship or bust. It's about theclash4u5 claiming, that we should rebuild, because we can't compete in this league. Now this only makes sense, if you define compete as being better than a fringe playoff team. Given that Cousins has only two seasons left on his deal, this is a valid opinion. Do we have what it takes to build a team, that can go deep into the PO in the next two seasons to convince Cousins to resign?
I really doubt that and the draft trade tells me, that Vlade probably doubts it too.

You are right though, that I exagerrated the blame you assign to Karl a bit. Sorry for that!
Yes assuming full health is taking the easy way out, but should we just claim, that we will be fully healthy and the Pel's for example won't? Last season was a desaster for the Pel's, but the season before they were a PO team, Holiday looked good at the end of the season, they moved on from Gordon, fixed their hole at SF, got a nice defensive combo guard and a lottery draft pick. When AD can play 60-70 games their chances to make the PO are better than ours.
And what else is a team, that is in the lottery every season, than a bottom of the barrel type of team?

Look I like the type of players we added. Vlade went after the right type of players. Problem is the quality of said players.

 

[Sac.Kings]

It's not about you and me being crazy enough to define "to compete" as championship or bust. It's about theclash4u5 claiming, that we should rebuild, because we can't compete in this league. Now this only makes sense, if you define compete as being better than a fringe playoff team. Given that Cousins has only two seasons left on his deal, this is a valid opinion. Do we have what it takes to build a team, that can go deep into the PO in the next two seasons to convince Cousins to resign?
I really doubt that and the draft trade tells me, that Vlade probably doubts it too.

You are right though, that I exagerrated the blame you assign to Karl a bit. Sorry for that!
Yes assuming full health is taking the easy way out, but should we just claim, that we will be fully healthy and the Pel's for example won't? Last season was a desaster for the Pel's, but the season before they were a PO team, Holiday looked good at the end of the season, they moved on from Gordon, fixed their hole at SF, got a nice defensive combo guard and a lottery draft pick. When AD can play 60-70 games their chances to make the PO are better than ours.
And what else is a team, that is in the lottery every season, than a bottom of the barrel type of team?

Look I like the type of players we added. Vlade went after the right type of players. Problem is the quality of said players.

We never really had a chance at high profile players anyway, this is free agency. A KD type of player doesn't really want to play for us. However, I suspect there are trades being worked on as we speak, as we only have 1 PG on the roster (who will be suspended for a decent amount of games on top of that). I would wait a while before judging at this moment in time. Yes, we got some new players and no, they are not all-stars, but they all have several things in common. They are all vets with a history of being able to defend, shoot the 3, and play tough, all qualities we were missing last season. Also, don't forget about all the young guys we added, because they will be taking over for them in the not-so-distant future. If Bogdanovic comes over this year, I'm going to be really excited.

I know it's not the place, but I wouldn't mind Knight from the Suns for PG. He's like a rich man's version of Collison.

 

[SacTownKid]

So the Mavs starting 5 next year would be Deron-Wes-Barnes-Dirk- Bogut...
That's not bad at all.

Or it's a complete hamster wheel team with a massively overpaid Barnes. Bogut staying healthy for a full year with an increased role is dubious. I'm not sure what the Mavs pick situation is but depending on how they do next season some of those parts may be available at the deadline.