That's been the sentiment I've seen on Twitter and elsewhere. "Every team should just refuse to trade for Bogut and then they can't sign Durant". It's true but it wouldn't happen.
Call it the NBA version of the prisoner's dilemma. Some team will have the chance to grab a very serviceable Andrew Bogut at a discount price. Teams that aren't contenders right now can't really afford to care about whether Durant signs with Golden State or stays in OKC. Those teams just need to improve and make the playoffs and aren't the ones that will be battling the new Splash Triplets. They'll see an opportunity to improve their team and take it.
Likewise, I look at the Warriors and see a big lack of depth and big bodies and think that maybe their lack of a bench will be their downfall. But the reality is that vets near the end of their career that can still contribute will line up to sign for the veterans minimum to win a ring.
Call it the NBA version of the prisoner's dilemma. Some team will have the chance to grab a very serviceable Andrew Bogut at a discount price. Teams that aren't contenders right now can't really afford to care about whether Durant signs with Golden State or stays in OKC. Those teams just need to improve and make the playoffs and aren't the ones that will be battling the new Splash Triplets. They'll see an opportunity to improve their team and take it.
Likewise, I look at the Warriors and see a big lack of depth and big bodies and think that maybe their lack of a bench will be their downfall. But the reality is that vets near the end of their career that can still contribute will line up to sign for the veterans minimum to win a ring.
Marc Stein is now saying the Warriors will renounce Barnes and the Mavs still intend to sign him.
Now that I think about it, that makes sense. Barnes represented a caphold so they had to renounce him to sign Durant which means they lose his Bird rights and the ability to go over the cap to keep him. Kind of glad to be wrong there. I think Harrison Barnes is very overrated but he's still a solid piece of that team.
Now:
Curry
Thompson
Iguodala
Durant
Green
but with their only bench players being Livingson, McCaw, Looney and Stone.
Word is also that the Mavs are looking to grab Bogut.
Now that I think about it, that makes sense. Barnes represented a caphold so they had to renounce him to sign Durant which means they lose his Bird rights and the ability to go over the cap to keep him. Kind of glad to be wrong there. I think Harrison Barnes is very overrated but he's still a solid piece of that team.
Now:
Curry
Thompson
Iguodala
Durant
Green
but with their only bench players being Livingson, McCaw, Looney and Stone.
Word is also that the Mavs are looking to grab Bogut.
I'm not convinced at all that they will sail through the season with ease. Even less in the playoffs. I believe that they will have to deal Iguodala for cheaper players to have at least some bench players. They can go to teams that have 2-3 good enough players on rookie contracts (like Philly). By the way, I believe rookie contracts will be worth gold in the coming years. Again, kudos to Vlade.
To me, this is actually a positive for us. A few super teams is best for our short term goals. We are not realistically better than GS or the Spurs in the next 2-3 years. Our goal this year is the playoffs. Our goal next year should be to win a round/top 5-6 seed. Our goal should be to contend for top 4 in the West in 3 years. It won't happen more quickly for us because we will never sign a KD.
So the Spurs and Warriors loading up, and at the expense of Houston, OKC, and Dallas (and Dallas committing max money to Barnes) are huge wins for us. The West is now a top 3- Warriors, Spurs, Clippers, and then a bunch of good, but flawed teams that can finish anywhere from 4-11.
So the Spurs and Warriors loading up, and at the expense of Houston, OKC, and Dallas (and Dallas committing max money to Barnes) are huge wins for us. The West is now a top 3- Warriors, Spurs, Clippers, and then a bunch of good, but flawed teams that can finish anywhere from 4-11.
It will be interesting to see how GS fills out the rest of their roster. Right now they are essentially trading Bogut, Ezeli, Speights, Barbosa & Barnes for Durant. Huge talent upgrade but now their only true bigs are Green and Diamond Stone. And outside of Livingston they have no real wing depth.
What's funny to me is that while they will still likely get stomped, the Kings are actually a tougher matchup for the Warriors now without Bogut and Ezeli.
I'll also be interested to see the Warriors offense and defense next season.
Will they largely work through Draymond at the high post? How is their rebounding going to be? Interior defense? Does everyone sacrifice their scoring a bit or is it Durant & Steph with Klay taking a back seat? Can KD defend PFs like Barnes did?
I don't think they can deal Iguodala for cheaper/bench players. First off he's 32 and set to be a free agent so I'm not sure they'd get a ton of value from dealing him and also he's currently slated as their starting SF.
C Green
PF Durant
SF Iguodala
SG Thompson
PG Curry
Now if they can sign or trade for a starting center then they'd be able to slide Green and Durant to their normal positions and then they'd have the luxury of potentially dealing Iguodala for depth. But that would also mean cutting ties with the Finals MVP from their championship year and one of their best 2 or 3 players during this year's playoff run. Tough call.
What's funny to me is that while they will still likely get stomped, the Kings are actually a tougher matchup for the Warriors now without Bogut and Ezeli.
I'll also be interested to see the Warriors offense and defense next season.
Will they largely work through Draymond at the high post? How is their rebounding going to be? Interior defense? Does everyone sacrifice their scoring a bit or is it Durant & Steph with Klay taking a back seat? Can KD defend PFs like Barnes did?
I don't think they can deal Iguodala for cheaper/bench players. First off he's 32 and set to be a free agent so I'm not sure they'd get a ton of value from dealing him and also he's currently slated as their starting SF.
C Green
PF Durant
SF Iguodala
SG Thompson
PG Curry
Now if they can sign or trade for a starting center then they'd be able to slide Green and Durant to their normal positions and then they'd have the luxury of potentially dealing Iguodala for depth. But that would also mean cutting ties with the Finals MVP from their championship year and one of their best 2 or 3 players during this year's playoff run. Tough call.
I like what the Warriors have done, no hate from me. But what you guys think about getting Michael Carter Williams from the Bucks. He may be available since Milwaukee signed Dellavedova. MCW isn't much of a shooter but he's one hell of a defender plus he's a playmaker. I think his skill set would be greatly appreciated here.
We have the advantage with Boogie vs Green or any cheap big the Warriors can sign.
The Warriors have the advantage everywhere else. And they can keep at least one star on the floor for the whole game. KD or Steph going off on our bench with the other 3 stars sitting outside, sipping Gatorade, while Cousins huffs and puffs after 40 minutes of constantly running up and down the court, constantly getting doubled and tripled and zoned, pushed around with no calls and most likely in foul trouble, because they are attacking him all night long.
Beating this team with our roster is a pipedream nothing more.
theClash4u5 is right. We can't compete in this league, thanks to all the mistakes we made. Maybe we can sneak into the 8th spot, but even that would be a basketball miracle, because most teams in the West are more talented than we are.
To make the PO we need to hope for some Joerger magic.
I love watching Cousins, but this will lead nowhere, but to a treadmill team, which is fine for me, because all I want is to cheer for the Kings in the PO's again.
The Warriors have the advantage everywhere else. And they can keep at least one star on the floor for the whole game. KD or Steph going off on our bench with the other 3 stars sitting outside, sipping Gatorade, while Cousins huffs and puffs after 40 minutes of constantly running up and down the court, constantly getting doubled and tripled and zoned, pushed around with no calls and most likely in foul trouble, because they are attacking him all night long.
Beating this team with our roster is a pipedream nothing more.
theClash4u5 is right. We can't compete in this league, thanks to all the mistakes we made. Maybe we can sneak into the 8th spot, but even that would be a basketball miracle, because most teams in the West are more talented than we are.
To make the PO we need to hope for some Joerger magic.
I love watching Cousins, but this will lead nowhere, but to a treadmill team, which is fine for me, because all I want is to cheer for the Kings in the PO's again.
Steph Curry is one of the best three point shooters in NBA history. He's also one of the best scorers in the league. On a bad night he is better than Darren Collison.
Klay Thompson is one of the best three point shooters and scorers at his position in the NBA today. On a bad night he is better than any shooting guard we have on the roster, unless, Arron Afflalo finds his defensive ability from years ago and then it is a coin toss.
Kevin Durant is one of the best players at his position in the league. He can shoot three pointers, he can rebound, he can assist, he can score heavily, and can play defense. On a bad night he is better than Rudy Gay.
Draymond Green is one of the best players at his position in the league. He can knock down three pointers, he can rebound, he can block shots, and he finished 7th in the league in assists per game. On a bad night he's better than WCS.
Now the only advantage we have over the Warriors is Cousins. At every other position they are better than us on a good night and a bad night as well. As good as Cousins is at both ends, when this Warriors team got going last year they were extremely hard to stop and beat. They could overturn 20 point deficits. When they had a lead and you came back against them, they would counter and knock down shots and go on runs to get back in the lead that simply broke the back of some teams. Now they have added Kevin Durant to the mix it is only going to get tougher to beat them and we don't stand a chance...
Perhaps some might hold a belief that Joerger can coach our team to play defense to suffocate the Warriors, and if he can do that he deserves tons of praise. However, even when teams play good defense against them they have so much shooting ability to knock down shots from all over the court that it negates that, and they also have great ball movement and ability to attack the rim even if teams play good defense to try and stop that. You can't simply guard the paint and force them to shoot because they'll kill you. And you can't simply guard the perimeter because Curry, Thompson, Green and [now] Durant can all attack the paint and kill you. I don't know how teams are going to stop them consistently. They are going to be a nightmare when that line up gels. And even without a deep bench, they have a quartet of players that will play 30 odd minutes per game and do the damage, and then come back on court towards the end and see out the game. All they need now is to find some veterans willing to take peanuts to chase a ring, and as Miami found and other teams have found down the years, plenty of veterans will take peanuts to chase a ring.
Klay Thompson is one of the best three point shooters and scorers at his position in the NBA today. On a bad night he is better than any shooting guard we have on the roster, unless, Arron Afflalo finds his defensive ability from years ago and then it is a coin toss.
Kevin Durant is one of the best players at his position in the league. He can shoot three pointers, he can rebound, he can assist, he can score heavily, and can play defense. On a bad night he is better than Rudy Gay.
Draymond Green is one of the best players at his position in the league. He can knock down three pointers, he can rebound, he can block shots, and he finished 7th in the league in assists per game. On a bad night he's better than WCS.
Now the only advantage we have over the Warriors is Cousins. At every other position they are better than us on a good night and a bad night as well. As good as Cousins is at both ends, when this Warriors team got going last year they were extremely hard to stop and beat. They could overturn 20 point deficits. When they had a lead and you came back against them, they would counter and knock down shots and go on runs to get back in the lead that simply broke the back of some teams. Now they have added Kevin Durant to the mix it is only going to get tougher to beat them and we don't stand a chance...
Perhaps some might hold a belief that Joerger can coach our team to play defense to suffocate the Warriors, and if he can do that he deserves tons of praise. However, even when teams play good defense against them they have so much shooting ability to knock down shots from all over the court that it negates that, and they also have great ball movement and ability to attack the rim even if teams play good defense to try and stop that. You can't simply guard the paint and force them to shoot because they'll kill you. And you can't simply guard the perimeter because Curry, Thompson, Green and [now] Durant can all attack the paint and kill you. I don't know how teams are going to stop them consistently. They are going to be a nightmare when that line up gels. And even without a deep bench, they have a quartet of players that will play 30 odd minutes per game and do the damage, and then come back on court towards the end and see out the game. All they need now is to find some veterans willing to take peanuts to chase a ring, and as Miami found and other teams have found down the years, plenty of veterans will take peanuts to chase a ring.
True. Rudy can actually give Durant some trouble when cares to, but I don't think he'll be around next year. I'm not sure you guard Curry. Irving went at Curry on offense, as did IT when he was here. Nobody stops the elite PGs. They just try to break down the first offensive option and deal with the shots the PG gets.
Klay is who tends to kill the Kings.
Klay is who tends to kill the Kings.
I would also argue our bench is now better than theirs. Yes they are better on paper and will definitely be better in reality, but there is something to be said about having 4 stars (2 of them superstars) and only 1 ball. Does Steph strictly become a jump shooter now along with Klay? Not everyone will be able to handle the ball ... something has to give. They also gave up a lot in terms of depth. They literally have no bench as of this moment past Livingston. The season is 82 games long, you never know. We can certainly compete in this league, you are taking things out of proportion. We have had a lot of issues and our biggest one from last year (coach Karl) is now gone. We would have won more games last year if he wasn't such a **** of a coach.
If your barometer of success for a team is the Golden State Warriors of the last 2 years and this year's version, then you may as well not even have a team.
Teams in the West:
Clearly far better
Warriors (obviously)
Spurs (about to lose Tim Duncan)
Better
Clippers (if everyone stays healthy, which is suddenly a very appropriate question)
Portland (they have their 2 stars)
OKC (they still have a good roster with 1 superstar)
On par with
Houston (they will be a mess this season, no defense and no big men)
Utah (they should be better than what they have been, but somehow can't get over the hump -- missing a real star)
Memphis (1 injury away from becoming a lottery team)
New Orleans (who knows with them, injuries are a problem)
T-Wolves (loads of talent, but inexperienced)
Yes, there a lot of teams in the West that can make the playoffs, but (and this is a big but), but there also many what-ifs. What if the Clippers experience injury again? Paul isn't getting any younger and Griffin has had 2 serious injuries already..... Houston is just as likely to be a lottery team as they are of being a playoff team and as constructed, they can't play a lick of defense....T-Wolves are young and inexperienced, but definitely are playoff material... Utah has a solid group, but seems to choke at the end of the season... Portland was the surprise last season -- can they do it again?.... My opinion: Memphis, Dallas, and Houston will not make the playoffs next season. Dallas is ancient and Memphis even more so, with Houston being all offense and not a shred of defense in sight. However, to say we can't compete in this league is simply not true. Even with all of the issues we had last year, we were still in the playoff race for more than half the season. Apart from Rondo leaving, most of the roster is intact and is better fitting than last year with a coach who knows exactly what to do with these types of players. We may not have as much talent as some of the teams, but talent isn't everything. Otherwise, Miami would have won all 4 championships they were in instead of going 2-2. Discipline on offense and defense is just as important. Look at the Spurs.
Edit: If a team gets the 6th seed or better, you can avoid the top 2 teams, which are certain deaths for anyone. So we aim for 6th. Not entirely out of the picture. We trade Rudy for a real PG and I would be hopeful. Our pieces fit nicely together now, there's an identity, and it's defensive and tough.
If your barometer of success for a team is the Golden State Warriors of the last 2 years and this year's version, then you may as well not even have a team.
Teams in the West:
Clearly far better
Warriors (obviously)
Spurs (about to lose Tim Duncan)
Better
Clippers (if everyone stays healthy, which is suddenly a very appropriate question)
Portland (they have their 2 stars)
OKC (they still have a good roster with 1 superstar)
On par with
Houston (they will be a mess this season, no defense and no big men)
Utah (they should be better than what they have been, but somehow can't get over the hump -- missing a real star)
Memphis (1 injury away from becoming a lottery team)
New Orleans (who knows with them, injuries are a problem)
T-Wolves (loads of talent, but inexperienced)
Yes, there a lot of teams in the West that can make the playoffs, but (and this is a big but), but there also many what-ifs. What if the Clippers experience injury again? Paul isn't getting any younger and Griffin has had 2 serious injuries already..... Houston is just as likely to be a lottery team as they are of being a playoff team and as constructed, they can't play a lick of defense....T-Wolves are young and inexperienced, but definitely are playoff material... Utah has a solid group, but seems to choke at the end of the season... Portland was the surprise last season -- can they do it again?.... My opinion: Memphis, Dallas, and Houston will not make the playoffs next season. Dallas is ancient and Memphis even more so, with Houston being all offense and not a shred of defense in sight. However, to say we can't compete in this league is simply not true. Even with all of the issues we had last year, we were still in the playoff race for more than half the season. Apart from Rondo leaving, most of the roster is intact and is better fitting than last year with a coach who knows exactly what to do with these types of players. We may not have as much talent as some of the teams, but talent isn't everything. Otherwise, Miami would have won all 4 championships they were in instead of going 2-2. Discipline on offense and defense is just as important. Look at the Spurs.
Edit: If a team gets the 6th seed or better, you can avoid the top 2 teams, which are certain deaths for anyone. So we aim for 6th. Not entirely out of the picture. We trade Rudy for a real PG and I would be hopeful. Our pieces fit nicely together now, there's an identity, and it's defensive and tough.
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Or you build to a strength the Warriors don't have: size.
Golden State will still have to pay both Steph and Durant next year. Even with the exploding cap, they'll have to lose depth to do so. In order to pay Durant this year, they're likely losing size this year. Next year, the huge contracts will likely cost them backcourt depth.
Golden State will still have to pay both Steph and Durant next year. Even with the exploding cap, they'll have to lose depth to do so. In order to pay Durant this year, they're likely losing size this year. Next year, the huge contracts will likely cost them backcourt depth.