Kings interview Del Negro, Jackson and Mitchell for Head Coach position (Yahoo News)

What pitch could we honestly sell to Vogel? We have one of the most talented bigs in the NBA, but he's hard to handle...always has been since HS.

Compare this to Harden. The only real knock on Harden is that his defense can get lazy...but Vogel is a defensive coach. Harden is an easier player to build an offense around.
Compare this to NY. Melo is slowly declining, but he can still give you 20pts a night with solid rebounding. He doesn't have the attitude issues either..plus they have Porzingis.

I think it'll be extremely hard to get a top coach like Vogel to consider the Kings. Most people haven't considered another realistic option... he takes a break from coaching.

I'll fly to Sacramento and pick him up at the airport if I need to. Vogel could be the best thing to happen to this franchise in a long time.
 
Difficult to sell the Kings job to someone like Vogel, because it is a step back for him. I would expect him to take a break from coaching until a job for a team with the potential to contend becomes available.
 
Kings may need to open the bank up for Vogel and I'm not sure Vivek is willing to do that , given all these ex coaches we are still paying
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Difficult to sell the Kings job to someone like Vogel, because it is a step back for him. I would expect him to take a break from coaching until a job for a team with the potential to contend becomes available.
Coaching lifer, and the difference is, was let go ala Adelman, not fired. So he's got no income next year. There's financial incentive for a guy like McHale to sit seasons out, the opposite is true of Vogel. Would not expect him to be the sort of charismatic figure to make much doing TV work either.
 
Thinking about it more I'm not sure Nate McMillan is a candidate in Indiana either. If Bird wants more offense, he wouldn't be the first place I'd look. I'm guessing Blatt and Hornacek will get consideration in Indy.
You really think Blatt is a candidate for Indy? :eek:
I was so sure he was in a final crossroads between the Knicks and the Kings, that I didn't even consider that...

Is Bird not inclined towards his peer group type cast, of ex-NBA players and established, fundamentally American coaches?
 
Thinking about it more I'm not sure Nate McMillan is a candidate in Indiana either. If Bird wants more offense, he wouldn't be the first place I'd look. I'm guessing Blatt and Hornacek will get consideration in Indy.
That was something I started to think as well after Bird said that he started to think about this move after the All Star break.

Anyway, there are 4 coaching jobs to fill at this point (NY, Indy, Houston and the Kings). There might be more as the playoffs go on. At this point I don't think that waiting too long is a good strategy.
 
i wonder why McHale just now decided to pull his name, and doesn't appear to be headed to Indy....something seems a little off there
The same happended to my football club a few years ago. After several firings of desastrous headcoaches, they got into an extended coaching search with lots of interviews of different candidates. After a while the more known top candidates decided to pull their names, because they felt insulted by the ongoing search. Some of them were upset the moment they were asked for an interview, because they thought, that every competent GM should be familiar with their body of work and their general principles. The longer the search lasted, the more they felt like the GM didn't know, what he was doing and so they decided to move on.

Not saying this is the case here, but you can overdo certain things.
 
i wonder why McHale just now decided to pull his name, and doesn't appear to be headed to Indy....something seems a little off there
Not necessarily. McHale was fired right after a three year extension. He can enjoy his salary for two more years and do TV work at that time. In other words, he has no pressures to take anything out there and can play with his personal preferences for a while.
 
Coaching lifer, and the difference is, was let go ala Adelman, not fired. So he's got no income next year. There's financial incentive for a guy like McHale to sit seasons out, the opposite is true of Vogel. Would not expect him to be the sort of charismatic figure to make much doing TV work either.
A NBA coach doesn't strike me as a person, that needs to work in order to feed his family. ;)
Hopefully you are right, but I would guess Vogel can afford to wait for a more attractive offer.
 
The same happended to my football club a few years ago. After several firings of desastrous headcoaches, they got into an extended coaching search with lots of interviews of different candidates. After a while the more known top candidates decided to pull their names, because they felt insulted by the ongoing search. Some of them were upset the moment they were asked for an interview, because they thought, that every competent GM should be familiar with their body of work and their general principles. The longer the search lasted, the more they felt like the GM didn't know, what he was doing and so they decided to move on.

Not saying this is the case here, but you can overdo certain things.
Well, Houston officially decided to do 10-15 interviews, so Sacramento is not that bad given, that quite a few names are there for assistant job.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Hey hey...do you know where Frank Vogel went to college?

University of Kentucky.

I kid you not. From the wiki:

At Juniata College in Huntingdon, Pennsylvania, Vogel was a starter for the Division III basketball team.[6] In 1994, Vogel transferred to the University of Kentucky. Vogel served as student manager for the Kentucky Wildcats men's basketball team then coached by Rick Pitino in the 1994–95 season. The following season, Pitino resurrected the junior varsity Kentucky basketball team and Vogel played for them.[6][7] Vogel graduated from Kentucky with a B.S. in biology in 1998

 
Just go all in for Vogel. Coaching searches are fine and good, but this is a star level coach with no history of failure or player revolts. He preaches defense. He likes to play big and defensive. Screw the rest. Put down a blank check and say you're the guy.
you really think vivek will allow defensive coach to be the next one? he loves the dub's sexy style
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
Frank Vogel......get him here Vlade.......THAT should be the target. All these other teams can just keep going small and come up short in terms of making it work and the Kings can go the opposite way.....Vogel is the guy to make it work.
 
Just go all in for Vogel. Coaching searches are fine and good, but this is a star level coach with no history of failure or player revolts. He preaches defense. He likes to play big and defensive. Screw the rest. Put down a blank check and say you're the guy.
you really think vivek will allow defensive coach to be the next one? he loves the dub's sexy style
Kings may need to open the bank up for Vogel and I'm not sure Vivek is willing to do that , given all these ex coaches we are still paying
vivek will want a blatt so he can run run run and gun gun gun like the double u's
 
Frank Vogel......get him here Vlade.......THAT should be the target. All these other teams can just keep going small and come up short in terms of making it work and the Kings can go the opposite way.....Vogel is the guy to make it work.
vogel is my top choice. dude will put cousins in the post and get all the bigs of the other team in foul trouble. just grind out some damn wins!!!!
 
An
Please. Those people are idiots. Have always been idiots, and will always be idiots. These are mostly the same people who didn't think he should be in the All-Star game, believe everything they read on Yahoo Sports, and generally think anything at all related to Sacramento is the joke that keeps on giving. I couldn't care less whether they think Cousins is All-NBA or not because of some arbitrary rules that they get to make up and then enforce. They call Cousins a team cancer while fantasizing about how they can rob us of him for a few meaningless late first round picks. And you'd better believe they'll be defending his All-NBA credentials if that ever happens.

The coaching search is absolutely about playing style and I suspect all of the talk of appeasing Cousins is a much bigger talking point among the fans than it is in the front office. I think it would be incredibly short-sighted to give up on a franchise level big man because George Karl couldn't make it work but I also don't think DeMarcus is bigger than the team. He's a great player but so were all the other guys we've traded over the years... Richmond, Webber, Peja, Bibby, Doug, Bobby ... they all got traded at some point. And that's why I want a defensive coach. Because I've always wanted a defensive coach. If Cousins refuses to bust his ass on defense for a coach that demands it than he deserves to be traded. That was most certainly not George Karl though. I think George Karl really only lost the locker room when it became obvious that Ben, Seth, and Willie were going to get benched for missing an open shot but Marco was going to get his minutes regardless of how poor his defense was. The commitment to defense from George Karl was non-existant.

And I know I'm not making any friends saying this, but all the talk about how the league is changing and we need a modern basketball mind to make sure we don't fall behind.... bull. poopoo. That's a whole truck full of it. Golden State and San Antonio are defensive powerhouses. That's why they're the two best teams in the league. Look at Golden State's lineup and point to one bad defender. Draymond Green, Steph Curry, and Andrew Bogut are among the best in the league at their positions. Igoudala is getting a little older but he's been known as a stopper for most of his career. Barnes and Thompson are no worse than average. Off the bench, their backup PG is 6'7". Leandro Barbosa plays basketball like a bull in a china shop but he's at least a rangy athlete. That accounts for most of their minutes. If all you see (this is a general you) when you watch Golden State is three-point shooting and ball movement than you're not paying attention. They've been scoring points in the Bay for a decade or more and never won anything until the new ownership committed to bringing in plus defenders. Remember when their own fans booed them for trading Monta Ellis for Andrew Bogut? I'm not even sure Golden State fans get it.

And this extends all the way to the Spurs -- who are continually held up as a model franchise and yet people continue to overlook the obvious reason why. They're on a whole other level defensively from the rest of the league. And that didn't happen by accident. To pick just one example-- they were a 61 win team in 2011 and traded one of their top 5 players to get Kawhi Leonard who is now one of the top 5 individual defenders in the league. That's called knowing what you need and going out and getting it. Their defense was astonishingly good this season and if you look at their roster -- Aldridge, old Ginobili, Parker, Patty Mills, Danny Green, David West, Boris Diaw, Kyle Anderson -- most of these players are not thought of as dominant defenders. As a team though they're the Great Wall of China. I don't even want to read another word about motion offense, three point shooters, floor spacing, or the death of post play from any Kings fan. Ever. It's been 10 years of the same thing. None of that even matters people! Popovich has run more offenses than I can count in his Hall of Fame coaching career. He's had one of the slowest paces in the league and one of the fastest. He's had one of the most prolific three point shooting teams and one of the worst. But two things remain constant: his teams always work their asses off on defense and they're always in the playoffs.

You want a coach with a system that gets wins? That's the system: earn your paycheck one stop at a time. When you put on this uniform, you will take pride in locking down the other team or you'll sit on the bench. You're not going to complain about touches, you're not going to jog through defensive possessions, you're not going to hoist threes outside of the offense, you're not going to watch your man rebound the ball without putting up a fight. Commit to doing all of that and you'll be a better player. Unfortunately the number of coaches out there with the stomach for barking this message at NBA players day in and day out, game after game, practice after practice, who are both willing and able to stand their ground until the players shut up and decide it's easier to just put in the work instead of complaining about it is very small. Calipari can do that on the college level because he's God on that Kentucky campus. But who other than Popovich can demand that from an NBA team? Thibs can but he wants full control of the roster to ensure he doesn't get compromised again. Of the coaches we're looking at, I think Nate McMillan and Mike Woodson are really the only options.

But that's just my opinion.
THIS! A great, breathtaking post. I've been trying to make that point about SAS & GSW being 100% about defense in so many of my personal discussions about the NBA, that I got blue in the face...

Can I please quote you in other forums I roam?
 
I'm not sure if this will help with our quest for Vogel, but Indiana as a fan base and city is about as close as you can get to Sacramento in this league. From that perspective it would be comfortable for him, without the cold.
 

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
I don't see the Knicks hiring Vogel so Houston would be the main competition.

Vogel doesn't strike me as the type to want to take a year off or head to the broadcast booth. And since he doesn't have salary coming in for the next couple years like McHale I think he'll be inclined to take a job this offseason.

If he's at the top of the Rockets list then I think that's the job he takes. Bigger market, less dysfunction, history of success. But if he's not Houston's guy then the Kings better pounce.

Very young yet successful head coach who gets his teams to play hard, especially on the defensive end. You'd want to find a strong offensive lead assistant to pair with him but otherwise I see no real downside. He's a very good coach in the here and now and I'd also be comfortable with him if a rebuild is necessary.
 
I don't see the Knicks hiring Vogel so Houston would be the main competition.

Vogel doesn't strike me as the type to want to take a year off or head to the broadcast booth. And since he doesn't have salary coming in for the next couple years like McHale I think he'll be inclined to take a job this offseason.

If he's at the top of the Rockets list then I think that's the job he takes. Bigger market, less dysfunction, history of success. But if he's not Houston's guy then the Kings better pounce.

Very young yet successful head coach who gets his teams to play hard, especially on the defensive end. You'd want to find a strong offensive lead assistant to pair with him but otherwise I see no real downside. He's a very good coach in the here and now and I'd also be comfortable with him if a rebuild is necessary.
I don't think any coach can make Harden play defense. He will be utterly disgusted by him.
 
you really think vivek will allow defensive coach to be the next one? he loves the dub's sexy style


vivek will want a blatt so he can run run run and gun gun gun like the double u's
Even as a Blatt lifelong fan I'm also more sold about Vogel for the Kings.

But what, in the world, makes you think that Blatt is a run&gun type of coach???:eek:

I follow the guy for almost 2 decades, and he's one of the most defensive-minded coaches I know - and a creative one at that, too.

Haven't you been around when he tightened the Cavs' depleted lines in the last postseason, and nearly beat the soaring Dubs with a roster of 7 guys?
 
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Chipping in on Blatt:

Besides this forum, I also lurk at realgm to get NBA news.

When Blatt was fired, Cavs fans were universally pissed off. About the only complaint anyone had was that he "misused" Love. And the people who brought that up still loved Blatt. It's very rare that a fanbase has such high opinions on their coach, which more often than not tends to be a scapegoat position.

Heck, we even had a "fire Malone" thread here, before it actually went down.

Everything I've heard about him has been positive. His Cavs team played great defense.

If we can sign him it'll be a coup. Really hope he's our guy.
Let me be clear. I'm not at all suggesting that Blatt isn't a good coach. I believe that he is. I'm only addressing the communication piece that Čarolija brought up, as well as the difference in coaching teams in Europe vs. the NBA. It's a valid concern. And if Blatt couldn't make it work with LeBron, there's reason to believe he could have issues with DeMarcus or other alpha players on other teams. That's all I was pointing out. I don't pretend to know a lot about Blatt or Messina. Maybe both are straight shooters that Cuz would get along with well, but might have problems with a Rajon Rondo type instead.

I just think it's something to strongly consider before hiring these guys. But it doesn't mean neither would work here or be successful. You never know until you give it a go.
 
I don't see the Knicks hiring Vogel so Houston would be the main competition.

Vogel doesn't strike me as the type to want to take a year off or head to the broadcast booth. And since he doesn't have salary coming in for the next couple years like McHale I think he'll be inclined to take a job this offseason.

If he's at the top of the Rockets list then I think that's the job he takes. Bigger market, less dysfunction, history of success. But if he's not Houston's guy then the Kings better pounce.

Very young yet successful head coach who gets his teams to play hard, especially on the defensive end. You'd want to find a strong offensive lead assistant to pair with him but otherwise I see no real downside. He's a very good coach in the here and now and I'd also be comfortable with him if a rebuild is necessary.
i'm in full agreement here. with vogel now on the market, my expectation as a fan is that the kings should go hard after him. if houston and new york are wise, they'll do the same, and while the kings likely lose a three-team tug-of-war should each of those franchises pursue vogel's services, he should absolutely be vlade's #1 priority. the guy can flat-out coach defense, he knows how to manage a locker room, he holds his players accountable, he never airs out his team's dirty laundry in the press, and his rosters always play with effort and they always play together. i suspect that he and demarcus could rather easily forge the same kind of strong partnership that mike malone and demarcus managed to forge in a brief amount of time together, and i can also certainly appreciate the value that vogel would bring to a post-demarcus kings franchise, should big cuz get traded before his contract expires. in my mind, hiring vogel would be a "win" all around, offensive limitations be damned...
 
i wonder why McHale just now decided to pull his name, and doesn't appear to be headed to Indy....something seems a little off there

Don't forget, coaches have agents too and I seriously doubt there are any agents out there not trying to talk their clients out of this job. For McHale it would be a gamble position considering his exit in Minnesota and Houston. If his 3rd go around is a disaster that might be his last shot at the head set on the bench.

It's really his loss though because he most likely will not ever find the combination of big man talent he would have been able to coach.